Movie Rambles

[cinemafan]

movieman - I almost missed your post - somehow it got buried under another byline for a while there. Thanks, all, for providing good stuff for me to read.

[cinemafan]

> {quote:title=cinemafan wrote:}{quote}

> movieman - I almost missed your post - somehow it got buried under another byline for a while there. Thanks, all, for providing good stuff for me to read.

Sheesh, it happened again! This place is wacky!

[HollywoodGolightly]

> {quote:title=cinemafan wrote:}{quote}

> This place is wacky!

 

It may be wacky sometimes, but it is full of great recommendations, for which I suppose we should all be grateful. I'm glad to have read the posts by MissG, CineMaven and movieman in regards to Kings Go Forth because it sounds like a really good movie - one which, oddly enough, doesn't seem to be on TCM all that often - or maybe I just missed it?

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=cinemafan wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=cinemafan wrote:}{quote}

> > movieman - I almost missed your post - somehow it got buried under another byline for a while there. Thanks, all, for providing good stuff for me to read.

> Sheesh, it happened again! This place is wacky!

 

Hi cinemafan,

I find it helps to put favorite threads on "Watch" because I can tell who has posted.

Otherwise, I miss some good stuff that gets buried on the lone praireeeeeeee....

 

Have you seen KGF? I highly recommend it, if you didn't notice. It's on DVD

and TCM airs it from time to time.

[JackFavell]

*MissG* I loved your ramble. You hit on every point that makes this film worth watching.

 

*Maven* - your posts give me something more to chew on. Interesting point about Natalie's father having to be a paragon of manhood.....

 

*movieman* - thanks for bringing up the way that the men rise above their hatred....

 

To me, this was a three person show - although the rest of the cast was very fine, the key to this movie's worth is in the three leads.

 

Sinatra was achingly lonely.... I like him best this way and I agree that his acting here is subtle and comprehending in a way that Maggio is not. He is NEVER over the top, NEVER too big for the scene he is in. His backstory is everything... and I loved how Maven put it - he has a chip on his shoulder, maybe even before Curtis shows up. He thinks of himself as a loser, therefore he is a loser. The one thing he's got (Curtis as well) is the army. He's good at that. But it isn't enough for a man so deep. I like Sinatra's openness with Natalie Wood... he is not brooding and intense with her, only when he is without her does this creep into his character. He opens up with her. There is no stereotypical John Garfield type portrayal here. It's all honest and more than a little painfiul to watch.

 

It never occurred to me to doubt Natalie Wood's casting, or her acting ability. While I was worrying over her french accent at the beginning (it turned out to be flawless), apparently some reviewers of the time were worrying over what she LOOKED like. Stupid me. I thought she was as good here as I have ever seen her. She opens herself up to everything and we anguish over it, like Sam. Again, backstory is everything.... where you come from is more important than who you are now. I liked that she was proud of her father and her background and didn't seem to realize why she shouldn't be. And I'm sorry to even mention this, since I just mentioned looks not being important, but her clothes and hair were to die for. Natalie gave a very beautiful and touching performance that seemed very real to me. None of these guys seemed to be "acting", but least of all Wood. She just was the character.

 

Tony Curtis breezed into this movie and blew me away. Not with his trupet playing, but with his acting. He gave a pretty near perfect performance as a heel who knows he's a heel. Why did I end up liking him at the end? There is not a reason in the world that this guy should end up on my good side, but somehow, Curtis does this. Maybe because of his continuing self awareness? He was able to overcome his background (they all had to do this) in a truly strong and positive way in the army, and yet, he could not overcome his deepest fault, his own shallowness. And he KNOWS this. His speech to Frankie about how everyone envies him, but he envies Sinatra for his CHARACTER was moving and real. I love Tony Curtis for his self knowledge... and he can play fatuous better than anybody. What surprised me was his ease, turning on a dime to play that one scene.... you know the scene - in which he tells Monique that it was a thrill for him, nothing more. He plays it on so many levels at the same time. He is brutally honest, not even attempting to be mean, but cutting her to the heart with his horrible thoughts. And at this point, he doesn't even know he is horrible. He actually expects Sam to understand. He's a liar and a user and he thinks it's funny. He's like a kid who has no idea of the consequences of his actions. Well, kids are cruel. How is it then, that later we see underneath that to the insecure kid wishing he were a better person?

 

So I do have one question - did Sam and Monique get together in the end?

[MissGoddess]

CinemAva strikes again! You prove over and over again how wise TCM was

to have selected you as a Guest Programmer and to do a Fan Testimonial. You

really hit on the hilights of Kings Go Forth.

 

>

> (SPOILERS THROUGHOUT!!!!)

>

 

>

> Uh....yeah. Sinatra makes sure the eggs are shared. When Curtis takes off his shirt to help rescue men caught in a minefield, I chuckled...I thought that was a great Matthew McConaughey move. So its set into motion the class struggle between Ol Blue Eyes and pretty boy Tone. (Frgive me for not referring to the actors by their characters names).

>

 

Ha!! That was great. By the way, I'm currently reading a copy of the novel by Joe David

Brown and surprisingly, the movie sticks mighty close to it. Including Britt Harris removing

his shirt.

 

 

> WAR IS HELL:

>

> This is a war movie. Dont let the gorgeous vistas of the Riviera fool you. All that was missing in the scenery was Mylene Demongeot ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0218634/) of Bonjour Tristesse fame. And even in black & white I could see the blue sea and the colorful surroundings. But this is a war movie.

 

I'm glad you went into this because another nicely balanced aspect of the movie

is how they depicted the beauty of the location vs. the horror of the situation, and

how one day they'd be crawling in the dirt for their lives and the next day drinking

wine in a cafe.

 

And, the movie is at pains to point out, there are TWO wars taking place,

the one they can tackle as a job to do, and the one they carry around inside

of themselves, the one that doesn't always have an end and in which there

are no victors.

 

 

 

 

 

(I was very impressed with the use of location shooting in this movie, and not

just because it's my favorite part of the world. They really shot A LOT of this film

in France and only a few shots incorporate obvious rear-screen projection.)

 

>

> Then theres Tony Curtis. (For me, his crowning glory performance is in "Sweet Smell of Success" but he is excellent in "Kings..." He starts pitching immediately. Hes a whirlwind for a girl whos been in a protective environment. He flashes that smile, talks fast and knows French. Hes right in there. Hes not boring or shy. He dances. Hes playful, attractive. He goes for it. Yeah, that means trouble for any girl but for one who is not ready...

>

 

That was perfect! He was practically constituted himself as a one-man occupation

team of Natalie's heart. Sam had no chance, he was just who he was and Monique

was too dazzled to see all that glitters is not gold...

 

> Sinatra puts himself in the position of being the third wheel once Tony enters the picture with Natalie. What guy does that? He did it to let Natalie have fun. I imagined it must have killed him to do that. It was a killer for me to witness. And Tony's insensitivity to the fact that he knew Sinatra cared about Natalie sent red flags up for me. Uh-oh...

>

 

You know what killed me? The way Sam (Sinatra) was always stuck paying the bill

on top of his humiliation as third wheel. That heel, Harris, never reached into his own

pocket once. He was too busy reaching into everyone else's.

 

 

 

Sam, boxed in again, pays the bill while his Sergeant walks off with the girl. Notice

Curtis' eyes whenever no one is watching him. They change, become colder and

more calculating.

 

 

 

>

> Lets just say that we have a little bit of Pinky Raintree County Islands in the Sun The World, The Flesh and the Devil Sapphire (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053242/) & (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053242/quotes) Guess Whos Coming to Dinner and Imitation of Life comes to mind. When Natalie's mom (played by Leora Dana) describes her late husband, it sounds like the typical way that would be introduced in movies. He'd have to be more than a blue collar truck driver. The man was a veritable Paragon: picking himself up by his bootstraps, overcoming all odds, becoming president of an insurance company. A man among men. He has so many overwhelmingly good qualities why wouldn't you want him. He couldn't just be an ordinary Joe. Would he have to be all that in order to get her? (Just wondering).

>

 

I know what you mean about his description---but I think they wanted to drive home the

point to people who may have thought no African American could be capable of

being any of those things. Do we, today, realize the riches and advances to

be found in Arab cultures?

 

>

> EMOTIONAL ARMAGEDDON:

>

 

You have the BEST headers!

 

> He came to me this morning with those great eyes. They mustve got him so much and saved him so much. He told me that he loved her and wanted to marry her. - Mrs. Blair (Leora Dana:http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0199070/).

>

 

And thank you for including Imdb.com links for the performers that others may

not be familiar with. I've not seen Leora in too many movies but I have seen

her in a few Alfred Hitchcock Presents episodes, and the Zone, too, I believe.

She has stage actress written over her to me, she's so accomplished, so

not Hollywood. And can I add that I think her chemistry with Sinatra in their

scenes together is quite as interesting as his with Natalie? It's easy to see

them as a "family", non?

 

 

 

 

> All she wanted was for her daughter to be happy. But it becomes all to clear and painfully apparent what Curtis intentions are. I was horrified. It was a great Hitchcock-defined suspense plot point to let us know something that the character does not. My breath stopped...my heart sank. I was filled with dread as I see Natalie next...waiting with hope and happy expectations. I was filled with dread seeing Sinatras reaction to the turn of events. He is seething. And Sinatra had to bring it to bear and witness the results. (I personally have felt that myself on one painful lovesick occasion). Natalie is about to take the wallop of her young life. I think were ALL about to get a sledgehammer in the stomach. And Daves makes us feel every painful word of it when Tonys character says:

>

> On several occasions Ive been engaged to marry and on several occasions Ive been not engaged to marry, if you follow me. And a lot of these girls I wouldn't take to a country club. But with the exception of your daughter Mrs. Blair, all of them were white!

>

> Natalies reaction is heartbreaking.

>

 

I'll say! I was boo-hooing in the theater!

 

Curtis is going to have to pull a "Houdini" to get out of this one...

 

I thought this was a very nice shot, one I had missed up until I took screencaps:

Sam, in a reverse point of view, is framed once again in a "box", watching the ambulance doors

(looking like a hearse) close on Monique whose body is eerily positioned as if in a coffin. it's

Sam's "funeral" as much as Moniques. I really like that this movie shows all the different

"casualties" in the war that never ends---the one within people.

 

 

>

> I enjoyed this movie for the mixture of themes Daves introduces in this movie. I thought I wasnt familiar with his work, but looking at his filmography, I note that I have seen: Dark Passage Demetrius and the Gladiator 3:10 to Yuma The Hanging Tree A Summer Place (didnt we rag on that film here in TCM City?) Parrish Susan Slade and Youngblood Hawke many of these films I must revisit. Ill have to look at Kings Go Forth again to focus on his directing style since this go round I was focused on his weaving this tale of love and vengeance and how putting people in boxes is unfair becuz we are all good and bad.

>

 

Have you seen The Red House, Miss CinemAva? It's a sort of "country noir" that

Daves did and it explores some interesting, but twisted, coming of age themes and

of course, you know how crazy folks who live out in those isolated areas are... Check

it out.

 

> Miss Goddess, thank you for the suggestion. This one got by me in my movie-viewing. I look forward to reading other essays on this film and hopefully permitted to comment on them.

 

I'm so grateful for your reply, it made my day.

[MissGoddess]

>

> What is most hurtful for Sam is that after he loves Monique he really "loses" her the moment she meets Britt. He is a good sport for a while but no one likes to be the third wheel. (Believe me, I know.) After Britt finds out I wonder why he continues with Monique other than that he can. But when he is confronted by Sam with Monique it has all been for fun. No one really gets over it. From here comes the hate April spoke of. Sam is mad that Britt has treated Monique as he had when she not only deserved better but ruined his chances with her.

>

 

Beautifully said, movieman. And I know the feeling of the "third wheel", too. It's a moment

in the film that I think connect strongly with a lot of people in the audience. it's the cinematic

equivalent of Sinatra's Only the Lonely concept album. When he's like this, he's

just so incredibly believable and touching to me. He gives a representation of the forgotten

on film (and in music). He represents the "have nots" in LUV.

 

 

>

> Oh yeah, there is a war going on. They spend their time living in both worlds and are reminded that they have a job to do. And do it they must. It is also a credit to the characters that despite their differences they put it aside for the moment to do the job. That is the important part.

>

 

Absolutely. The book so far is illustrating to me how well Daves' got that across, that

these men could hate each other and still perform a job under such duress. They

are trained.

 

> As much as it is a love story it is the story of two men and the lives they lived and how it effects them with where they are and the woman they both love.

 

As usual, you say in a few cherce words what takes me a whole dictionary!

[MissGoddess]

Hi Jackie!

 

>

> Sinatra was achingly lonely.... I like him best this way and I agree that his acting here is subtle and comprehending in a way that Maggio is not. He is NEVER over the top, NEVER too big for the scene he is in. His backstory is everything... and I loved how Maven put it - he has a chip on his shoulder, maybe even before Curtis shows up. He thinks of himself as a loser, therefore he is a loser. The one thing he's got (Curtis as well) is the army. He's good at that. But it isn't enough for a man so deep. I like Sinatra's openness with Natalie Wood... he is not brooding and intense with her, only when he is without her does this creep into his character. He opens up with her. There is no stereotypical John Garfield type portrayal here. It's all honest and more than a little painfiul to watch.

>

 

I was squirming in my metaphorical seat throughout the movie. He really lays it out

there, the humiliation, the loneliness, anguish...and then, ohhh.. how SCARY his

eyes can get when he's mad!

 

I walked down this very street this summer, the oldest in Villefranche..

 

these shots could almost function as cover art for Sinatra's concept albums...and are

very "noirish"

 

 

> It never occurred to me to doubt Natalie Wood's casting, or her acting ability. While I was worrying over her french accent at the beginning (it turned out to be flawless), apparently some reviewers of the time were worrying over what she LOOKED like. Stupid me. I thought she was as good here as I have ever seen her. She opens herself up to everything and we anguish over it, like Sam. Again, backstory is everything.... where you come from is more important than who you are now. I liked that she was proud of her father and her background and didn't seem to realize why she shouldn't be. And I'm sorry to even mention this, since I just mentioned looks not being important, but her clothes and hair were to die for. Natalie gave a very beautiful and touching performance that seemed very real to me. None of these guys seemed to be "acting", but least of all Wood. She just was the character.

>

 

Beautifully said. Natalie is the character, as you say. She never cheats or undercuts

her performance with a single false note. You can even feel her pain at being the cause

of hurting Sam.

 

> Tony Curtis breezed into this movie and blew me away. Not with his trupet playing, but with his acting. He gave a pretty near perfect performance as a heel who knows he's a heel. Why did I end up liking him at the end? There is not a reason in the world that this guy should end up on my good side, but somehow, Curtis does this. Maybe because of his continuing self awareness? He was able to overcome his background (they all had to do this) in a truly strong and positive way in the army, and yet, he could not overcome his deepest fault, his own shallowness. And he KNOWS this. His speech to Frankie about how everyone envies him, but he envies Sinatra for his CHARACTER was moving and real. I love Tony Curtis for his self knowledge... and he can play fatuous better than anybody. What surprised me was his ease, turning on a dime to play that one scene.... you know the scene - in which he tells Monique that it was a thrill for him, nothing more. He plays it on so many levels at the same time. He is brutally honest, not even attempting to be mean, but cutting her to the heart with his horrible thoughts. And at this point, he doesn't even know he is horrible. He actually expects Sam to understand. He's a liar and a user and he thinks it's funny. He's like a kid who has no idea of the consequences of his actions. Well, kids are cruel. How is it then, that later we see underneath that to the insecure kid wishing he were a better person?

>

 

You've layed out Sgt. Britt Harris in all his "glory". He's a hollow one, but his self-knowlege

gives him a redemption in a way. How can you hate someone who knows and admits he's

no good? I think there's more hope for such a man than those who think better of themselves

yet behave the same.

 

> So I do have one question - did Sam and Monique get together in the end?

 

I say they do, but I am perversely optimistic on this point. Monique would

be crazy to send him away now. He sacrificed a lot of himself because his love

was as pure as she deserved. He set aside his own hopes when he realized he

was out of the running. That's real love. I wonder how the novel will end it.

[CineMaven]

MOVIEMAN:

 

?The cast is fine. Curtis has a few scenes particularly the above mentioned one where he shows he is quite good when he is angry. With one line to the mother he sums up his whole thinking of their situation and he makes his point firmly.?

 

Oh yeah, that was a chilling portent to the moments ahead: ?I don?t like that word coming from you.? [/i] Damn the torpedoes!

 

Sinatra is terrific in his role. Caught between the confidence of being a leader and the lack of it in all other respects he plays the line well.

 

Yes...walking a thin line must be done very delicately and he did that perfectly.

 

Now movieman...third wheel... You??

 

JACKFAVELL:

 

?Sinatra was achingly lonely.... I like him best this way and I agree that his acting here is subtle and comprehending in a way that Maggio is not. He is NEVER over the top, NEVER too big for the scene he is in. His backstory is everything... I like Sinatra's openness with Natalie Wood... he is not brooding and intense with her, only when he is without her does this creep into his character. He opens up with her. There is no stereotypical John Garfield type portrayal here. It's all honest and more than a little painfiul to watch.?

 

"Achingly lonely?" Whoa. You captured Frankie?s performance. I guess in ?FROM HERE TO ETERNITY? you cannot have two hurt souls. So Monty was quiet and Frankie brash. But it's good to see he can play hurt and sensitive when in life, he probably took a back seat to NO ONE.

 

?...apparently some reviewers of the time were worrying over what she LOOKED like.?

 

Yeah, like they?d hire Dorothy Dandridge. There are many folks ?passing? that one might not expect. I wonder what they expected someone like Monique TO look like. Poor Fredi Washington in the original ?Imitation of Life? (1934) could not get many parts becuz of her look. When I spoke to Susan Kohner (oh yes I did when Chipsy and I went to Borders to see the author of the making of ?Imitation of Life? (1959) and Ms. Kohner was there). I said to her that I had always enjoyed her performances and she had a voice different from all the other girls of the time. She said the producers thought her look was believable for ?Imitation...? but she almost didn?t get the part because of her voice.

 

And I'm sorry to even mention this, since I just mentioned looks not being important, but her clothes and hair were to die for.

 

She looked great. And we know it?s All about the clothes, don't we? But would it have killed them to take her hair outta that chignon in the back??

 

?I thought she was as good here as I have ever seen her. She opens herself up to everything and we anguish over it, like Sam...Natalie gave a very beautiful and touching performance that seemed very real to me. None of these guys seemed to be ?acting?, but least of all Wood. She just was the character.?

 

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. I can?t say I?ve ever caught Natalie Wood ?acting.? Nope, not even in ?West Side Story.?

 

?Tony Curtis breezed into this movie and blew me away. He gave a pretty near perfect performance as a heel who knows he's a heel. Why did I end up liking him at the end? There is not a reason in the world that this guy should end up on my good side, but somehow, Curtis does this. Maybe because of his continuing self awareness??

 

I?d say Tony did what Sinatra did...walk on a razor thin line without a mis-step. I?m sure Hollywood agents wanted Tony to coast on those blazing good looks of his. After all there was Rory and Ty and Tab and Fabian and Troy and of course Rock. I?m sure Tony had to fight hard to get good roles, to be taken seriously by agents and to avoid the casting couch as well. And he acquits himself nicely.

 

?...he can play fatuous better than anybody. What surprised me was his ease, turning on a dime to play that one scene.... you know the scene - in which he tells Monique that it was a thrill for him, nothing more. He plays it on so many levels at the same time. He is brutally honest, not even attempting to be mean, but cutting her to the heart with his horrible thoughts.?

 

Whoa!! Here here. Great description, Jackaaaay. A real accomplished actor must seek levels...layers in his characters. Could it have been he had a great director??

 

?And at this point, he doesn't even know he is horrible. He actually expects Sam to understand. He's a liar and a user and he thinks it's funny. He's like a kid who has no idea of the consequences of his actions. Well, kids are cruel. How is it then, that later we see underneath that to the insecure kid wishing he were better person??

 

Again, nice job in stating this. Self-awareness is good as long as it?s not said repeatedly ("I know I'm a worm! I know I'm a snake!!") to give him permission to continue to be the snake in the grass he is. He thought Sinatra was like the typical soldier: give the native girls some chewing gum, stockings, a roll in the hay and then skedaddle. Sinatra had a deep heart and such integrity. But with Tony?s (Britt Harris?) looks...life never required any more of his character, I?m sure.

 

So again, do we girls have to choose between ?integrity? and ?passion?? Why do we have to make the right choice while the boys can cavort with the (*)Van Dorens, J.Lansings, B.Nicholses and the S.Norths of the world???

 

MISS GODDESS:

 

?CinemAva strikes again! :-) You prove over and over again how wise TCM was

to have selected you as a Guest Programmer and to do a Fan Testimonial. You really hit on the hi-lights of Kings Go Forth.?

 

Thank you Ms. G., I?m truly truly flattered that you say that. (D?YA HEAR HER TOM BROWN!! ARE YA READIN? THIS TCMMMMMM!!!) But I was surrounded by fourteen other people who, by golly(!) did such a great job AND who really knew movies. (That fan testimonial WAS kinda special). Damn, can all fifteen of us just meet up at a Starbucks in NYC somewhere. Sheesh! Oh, oh okay...?KINGS GO FORTH.?

 

And, the movie is at pains to point out, there are TWO wars taking place, the one they can tackle as a job to do, and the one they carry around inside of themselves, the one that doesn't always have an end and in which there are no victors.

 

Tell me again, WHEN is your book of essays coming out??? Nice, G. Nice!

 

?That was perfect! He was practically constituted himself as a one-man occupation team of Natalie's heart. Sam had no chance, he was just who he was and Monique was too dazzled to see all that glitters is not gold...?

 

I think Ol? Blue Eyes was also wise enough to see that there would be nothing he could say to stop Natalie?s heart from pounding a mile a minute for Tony. He was so purty! Now, I?m a big-city gal; seen a lot...done a lot. But if I was LUCKY enuf to get the hard-court press by Tony...I guess I?d be dazzled by that fool?s gold myself.

 

?You know what killed me? The way Sam (Sinatra) was always stuck paying the bill

on top of his humiliation as third wheel. That heel, Harris, never reached into his own pocket once. He was too busy reaching into everyone else's.?

 

You cracked me up here! And with screen caps to boot? You?re dangerous girl! You know... I?m so smart about movies. I thought that: yeah, he finagled eggs out of that girl, but his heart was really touched by such a pure nice girl like Natalie?s character and he?d become a changed man. Sinatra would just have to pay second (Ralph Bellamy) fiddle. Boy was I wrong! So you think Lana fell for Frankie?s soft and sensitive side? I have a feeling that when he accompanied her to Africa for ?Mogambo? the boy was probably whipped!

 

?I know what you mean about his description---but I think they wanted to drive home the point to people who may have thought no African American could be capable of being any of those things. Do we, today, realize the riches and advances to be found in Arab cultures?? ;-)

 

Yes, I see what you mean. Of course. Of course.

 

?You have the BEST headers!?

 

They come right off the top of my pointy l?il head.

 

?And thank you for including Imdb.com links for the performers that others may

not be familiar with.?

 

You?re welcome. Look ?em up folks!

 

?I've not seen Leora in too many movies but I have seen her in a few Alfred Hitchcock Presents episodes, and the Zone, too, I believe. She has stage actress written over her to me, she's so accomplished, so not Hollywood. And can I add that I think her chemistry with Sinatra in their scenes together is quite as interesting as his with Natalie? It's easy to see them as a "family", non??

 

Mais oui. Perhaps in another time of movie-making, Sinatra would have been interested in her. Quiet maturity she had...and Frankie kind of needed ?mothering.? Leora Dana reminded me of Ann Harding; the quality of her voice. The seriousness of her intent. The life behind what was on the page.

 

?I?m a little better than I was a week ago.?

 

Now THIS was my favorite line of the entire motion picture.

 

?Sam, in a reverse point of view, is framed once again in a ?box?, watching the ambulance doors (looking like a hearse) close on Monique whose body is eerily positioned as if in a coffin. it's Sam's ?funeral? as much as Monique?s. I really like that this movie shows all the different ?casualties? in the war that never ends---the one within people.?

 

?Casualties in the war that never ends.? Whew! Nicely put. And again, good eye!!! I noticed this but I don?t know that I cognitively had that thought run through my mind though I felt it. It also saddened me putting me to mind of Natalie Wood?s fate less than twenty-five years later. Too soon. Too damned soon. Her acting might have been a force to be reckoned with in later years.

 

?How can you hate someone who knows and admits he's no good??

 

I couldn?t...unless I saw that the person absolutely and utterly refused to change. Then I?d hate him from the very bottom of my soul.

 

QUESTION: Do you think Natalie said ?NO? to Sinatra becuz of her mixed heritage or did she say ?NO? to Sinatra becuz she really wasn?t in love with him??

 

"Have you seen ?The Red House?, Miss CinemAva? It's a sort of 'country noir' that Daves did and it explores some interesting, but twisted, coming of age themes and of course, you know how crazy folks who live out in those isolated areas are...Check it out.?

 

I know this film and I have seen it. (Oooh, I?m thinking of ?Guest in the House? and that crazy Louis Hayward film we all talked about a little while ago). I guess I prefer my Eddie G. with a gat in his hand and a cigar in his mouth. If I must confess...actually watched the film ?cuz I?m crazy for Lon McCallister. But I wasn?t crazy about the movie. I guess I get enuf crazy on this Message Board.

 

Now...you a third wheel??? :0

 

Message was edited by CineMaven becuz I have to be careful with the plain text and * Joi Lansing, Barbara Nichols and Sheree North are the actresses I was referring to if you are new to classic films and reading this thread.

[MissGoddess]

>

> Thank you Ms. G., Im truly truly flattered that you say that. (DYA HEAR HER TOM BROWN!! ARE YA READIN THIS TCMMMMMM!!!) But I was surrounded by fourteen other people who, by golly(!) did such a great job AND who really knew movies. (That fan testimonial WAS kinda special). Damn, can all fifteen of us just meet up at a Starbucks in NYC somewhere. Sheesh! Oh, oh okay...KINGS GO FORTH.

>

 

Ha! We really ought to have some sort of reunion one day.

 

>

> Tell me again, WHEN is your book of essays coming out??? Nice, G. Nice!

>

 

Your book of essays, MissEssay! I do think it's a fine idea, by the way. TCM should

listen.

 

>

> I think Ol Blue Eyes was also wise enough to see that there would be nothing he could say to stop Natalies heart from pounding a mile a minute for Tony. He was so purty! Now, Im a big-city gal; seen a lot...done a lot. But if I was LUCKY enuf to get the hard-court press by Tony...I guess Id be dazzled by that fools gold myself.

>

 

How many eggs in your basket?

 

>

> You cracked me up here! And with screen caps to boot? Youre dangerous girl! You know... Im so smart about movies. I thought that: yeah, he finagled eggs out of that girl, but his heart was really touched by such a pure nice girl like Natalies character and hed become a changed man. Sinatra would just have to pay second (Ralph Bellamy) fiddle. Boy was I wrong! So you think Lana fell for Frankies soft and sensitive side? I have a feeling that when he accompanied her to Africa for Mogambo the boy was probably whipped!

>

 

Ha!!! Yes, CinemAVA, I think I agree. MissG(ardner), after their divorce,

would play his records every night at TOP VOLUME from her apartment at the Spanish

Steps in Rome.

 

>

> Leora Dana reminded me of Ann Harding; the quality of her voice. The seriousness of her intent. The life behind what was on the page.

>

 

That's so true---she DOES remind me of Ann. So wise and calm.

 

 

> Im a little better than I was a week ago.

>

> Now THIS was my favorite line of the entire motion picture.

>

 

Mine, too. It's a great moment.

 

>

> Casualties in the war that never ends. Whew! Nicely put. And again, good eye!!! I noticed this but I dont know that I cognitively had that thought run through my mind though I felt it. It also saddened me putting me to mind of Natalie Woods fate less than twenty-five years later. Too soon. Too damned soon. Her acting might have been a force to be reckoned with in later years.

>

 

She certainly had all the potential. It was a terrible tragedy.

 

> How can you hate someone who knows and admits he's no good?

>

> I couldnt...unless I saw that the person absolutely and utterly refused to change. Then Id hate him from the very bottom of my soul.

>

 

Woweee!! Look out, NOIRISTA on the track! People beware, don't rouse sleeping

CineMavens.

 

> QUESTION: Do you think Natalie said NO to Sinatra becuz of her mixed heritage or did she say NO to Sinatra becuz she really wasnt in love with him??

>

 

Good question! I think the latter, because he wasn't her "shining ideal" I suspect, however

your question did run through my mind while I was watching it, because she did

seem to really like him.

 

>

> I know this film and I have seen it. (Oooh, Im thinking of Guest in the House and that crazy Louis Hayward film we all talked about a little while ago). I guess I prefer my Eddie G. with a gat in his hand and a cigar in his mouth. If I must confess...actually watched the film cuz Im crazy for Lon McCallister. But I wasnt crazy about the movie. I guess I get enuf crazy on this Message Board.

>

 

Lol! Fair enough and understood.

 

> Now...you a third wheel??? :0

>

 

Plenty.

[HollywoodGolightly]

I don't remember watching The Red House, though for all I know I may have recorded it at some point. But it sounds like it might just be ramble-worthy!

[movieman1957]

*MissG*

 

As usual you are very kind with your thoughts on my remarks, I appreciate you think my words are "cherce.":)

 

*The Divine Miss CM*

 

Thank you. Your essay was wonderful. No reason to feel shy about your contributions. Third wheel? Oh yeah!

 

Delmar Daves is one of those quiet directors. As you mentioned you don't always realize how many of his films you may have seen. I'm not sure why that is but you don't hear much about him but he always gives good solid work. After "3:10" and and a few others I learned his name and look forward to films that carry his name.

 

More later.

[HollywoodGolightly]

Thank you to those who have singled out director Delmer Daves, to be honest, his name is probably not all that well known to a lot of film buffs - and undeservedly so.

 

If TCM goes ahead next year with another month-long tribute to directors, I would certainly hope Daves will get a day's tribute. And maybe that tribute could even include the long-awaited TCM premiere of The Hanging Tree.

[butterscotchgreer]

wow! i loved reading everyone's post about Kings Go Forth! you guys know justh ow to make me smile!

 

sorry i missed the whole conversation, i really wanted to be here, but i couldnt get to a computer, and youll never know hard i tried to get to one either. heehee! i guess i should put my two cents down now...

[MissGoddess]

I thought you'd be out partying little Miss Grown Up!

[butterscotchgreer]

hey everyone!

 

Kings Go Forth was a really powerful movie with many angles to go. I loved Frankie Sinatra's performance and thought he was rather charming even as a lonely man. the heck with natalie wood, i would have fallen in love with him myself. heehee!

 

i must say, Natalie's character, i didnt like very much, b/c she was so fickle and i always got confused as to what she wanted...that is until mr Tony Curtis came along. i think she wanted a lot of excitement in her life, and that may have been why she fell for Tony's character. she was used to being sheltered by her mother and wanted to feel loved and special. i honestly dont think she really love Britt.....although i dont think she loved Sam either. i think to a point, she loved Sam as a very good friend and she started to trust him, so she was comfortable while being with him.

 

toward the beginning of the movie while Sam is marching with the troops and he stops nextto the old lady to get a drink from her, i thought that showed a lot of his character up front and i loved it! i loved just how soft he could be and for me, thats what made him so lovable.....

 

.....also the part when he said that the spongecake with butterscotch frosting was the best in the world. heehee! i loved that part!

 

Britt was very selfish to me and i thought that he loved having attention, so he went out of his way to save the day and become a "hero", although i think he was trying to prove that he was more than a spoiled kid growing up. i do think Sam was a bit jealous of Brit too. Sam was the poor kid who didnt grow up with a lot and i think HE also wanted to prove to someone that he was special; that he could be a hero who was worth so much, but not in the same way as Britt.

 

 

whoever said that Leora Dana reminds you of Ann Harding.....oh my goodness! i completely agree! so many of the same characteristics. i loved watching her as the mother. she was humble and bright.

[butterscotchgreer]

hey dahlink!

 

*I thought you'd be out partying little Miss Grown Up!*

 

how did you know it was my birthday?

[CineMaven]

"Britt was very selfish to me and i thought that he loved having attention, so he went out of his way to save the day and become a "hero", although i think he was trying to prove that he was more than a spoiled kid growing up. i do think Sam was a bit jealous of Brit too. Sam was the poor kid who didnt grow up with a lot and i think HE also wanted to prove to someone that he was special; that he could be a hero who was worth so much, but not in the same way as Britt."

 

What took me 300,000,094,101,001 words to say, you nailed on the head briefly and succinctly. Nice. Looks like Britt was pretty empty underneath it all. Tsk! Tsk! Wanting all that attention and being a creep underneath. Let that be a lesson to you girls! Look out for attention-seekers. Some of them are bankrupt creeps under the mink! Butterscotch, I think your "two cents" was worth waiting for. And worth much more than two cents too!

 

"Whoever said that Leora Dana reminds you of Ann Harding.....oh my goodness! i completely agree! so many of the same characteristics. i loved watching her as the mother. she was humble and bright."

 

That would be me..."Miss Long-Winded of 1952." So you know Ms. Harding's work, ey? Impressive for one so young. Good for you. Humble and bright. Again, you nailed the characterization.

 

Uhhhh...are we waiting for FrankieG. and Molo *The Sultan of Glo" and movieman to give us the male p.o.v. of all this love and war and love business in "Kings Go Forth"??? Ladies, we may have this thing alllllllllllll wrong.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=butterscotchgreer wrote:}{quote}

> hey dahlink!

>

> *I thought you'd be out partying little Miss Grown Up!*

>

> how did you know it was my birthday?

 

Silly billy, go look at Frankie's torture thread!

[butterscotchgreer]

*What took me 300,000,094,101,001 words to say, you nailed on the head briefly and succinctly. Nice. Looks like Britt was pretty empty underneath it all. Tsk! Tsk! Wanting all that attention and being a creep underneath. Let that be a lesson to you girls! Look out for attention-seekers. Some of them are bankrupt creeps under the mink! Butterscotch, I think your "two cents" was worth waiting for. And worth much more than two cents too!*

 

why thank you cinie! i loved youre review too! you were really detailed and wonderful! i have met guys that are "attention-seekers" and they just arent fun to be around. i can see straight through them....most of the time. i love what you just said about Britt too..... he was "empty underneath it all." Brilliant!! thats sums the rest of him up perfectly.

 

*That would be me..."Miss Long-Winded of 1952." So you know Ms. Harding's work, ey? Impressive for one so young. Good for you. Humble and bright. Again, you nailed the characterization.*

 

oh! how wonderful! yes i know ann harding's movies. i love a lot of them. i especially love her in *Two Weeks With love* as Jane Powell's mother. she was ever too cute in that one! but that wasnt her bestperformance for me. i think she was great in *Holiday* as Kate Hepburn's sister too.

 

 

*Uhhhh...are we waiting for FrankieG. and Molo *The Sultan of Glo" and movieman to give us the male p.o.v. of all this love and war and love business in "Kings Go Forth"??? Ladies, we may have this thing alllllllllllll wrong.*

 

im afraid to read Frankie's review on this movie. he might turn it into a massacre. heehee! as for molo (sweet larry), im looking forward to his review too!

[butterscotchgreer]

*Silly billy, go look at Frankie's torture thread!*

 

thanks dahlink! i did!

[CineMaven]

oh! how wonderful! yes i know ann harding's movies. i love a lot of them. i especially love her in "Two Weeks With Love" as Jane Powell's mother. she was ever too cute in that one! but that wasnt her bestperformance for me. i think she was great in "Holiday" as Kate Hepburn's sister too.

 

I've never seen "Two Weeks..." and I think I just recently found out that Harding played in the original version of "Holiday" that was re-made later with Hepburn. I just saw "Animal Kingdom" (thank you Ollie, whereever you are!) and enjoyed her performance in that one too. Now listen, Birthday Girl. You must catch Ann Harding and Basil Rathbone (go to YouTube) in "Love From A Stranger." Happy Birthday...and keep writing!

 

Say, how'd that interview go on Friday?

[MissGoddess]

First of all, that was one amazing ramble, Miss Tea! What did they put in your cake?

 

 

>

> Kings Go Forth was a really powerful movie with many angles to go. I loved Frankie Sinatra's performance and thought he was rather charming even as a lonely man. the heck with natalie wood, i would have fallen in love with him myself. heehee!

>

 

SWOONATRA!!! I'll fight you for him!! "Sam Loggins" is one of my all-time

favorite male characters now. I'm madly in love with him.

 

> i must say, Natalie's character, i didnt like very much, b/c she was so fickle and i always got confused as to what she wanted...that is until mr Tony Curtis came along. i think she wanted a lot of excitement in her life, and that may have been why she fell for Tony's character. she was used to being sheltered by her mother and wanted to feel loved and special. i honestly dont think she really love Britt.....although i dont think she loved Sam either. i think to a point, she loved Sam as a very good friend and she started to trust him, so she was comfortable while being with him.

>

 

Now that is interesting...I have to admit to certain feelings like that, I mean I just felt

SO horribly bad for Sam---the look on his face when she just shot down his hope

after hope....

 

> toward the beginning of the movie while Sam is marching with the troops and he stops nextto the old lady to get a drink from her, i thought that showed a lot of his character up front and i loved it! i loved just how soft he could be and for me, thats what made him so lovable.....

>

 

It's a darling moment, I agree! And you're so right, it does tell us A LOT about Sam. he's

taking note of his surroundings, he's curious and he is interested in people. He acknowleges

the excitement of the locals. He also likes booze!

 

> .....also the part when he said that the spongecake with butterscotch frosting was the best in the world. heehee! i loved that part!

>

 

 

> Britt was very selfish to me and i thought that he loved having attention, so he went out of his way to save the day and become a "hero", although i think he was trying to prove that he was more than a spoiled kid growing up. i do think Sam was a bit jealous of Brit too. Sam was the poor kid who didnt grow up with a lot and i think HE also wanted to prove to someone that he was special; that he could be a hero who was worth so much, but not in the same way as Britt.

>

 

Oh yes, Sammy was envious, Britt had EVERYTHING he (thought) he lacked.

 

>

> whoever said that Leora Dana reminds you of Ann Harding.....oh my goodness! i completely agree! so many of the same characteristics. i loved watching her as the mother. she was humble and bright.

 

"Humble and bright", like CinemAva said, you nailed her character right on the head.

[butterscotchgreer]

*I've never seen "Two Weeks..." and I think I just recently found out that Harding played in the original version of "Holiday" that was re-made later with Hepburn. I just saw "Animal Kingdom" (thank you Ollie, whereever you are!) and enjoyed her performance in that one too. Now listen, Birthday Girl. You must catch Ann Harding and Basil Rathbone (go to YouTube) in "Love From A Stranger." Happy Birthday...and keep writing!*

 

if you like the cutesie movies or movies with a few musical numbers, you will love Two Weeks With Love. Ann definitely made herself look different in her role.

 

Thank you for the Happy Birthday Cinie! i love the movie, Love From a Stranger! thats a good mystery movie! Ann and Basil have the most interesting chemistry in that one too.

 

*Say, how'd that interview go on Friday?*

 

oh yeah......i got an email from the company i was suppose to interview for yesterday, and they said that there was a staff meeting scheduled at the same time as my interview so they changed it to Tuesday. yucky.

[butterscotchgreer]

*First of all, that was one amazing ramble, Miss Tea!

 

what do you mean, "What did they put in your cake?"

 

oh yes, i mean angel food cake, not sponge cake....silly me! heehee!

 

*SWOONATRA!!! I'll fight you for him!! "Sam Loggins" is one of my all-time*

*favorite male characters now. I'm madly in love with him.*

 

you bet! i love Sam Loggins too. there is so much more to him than people would think at first.

 

*Now that is interesting...I have to admit to certain feelings like that, I mean I just felt*

*SO horribly bad for Sam---the look on his face when she just shot down his hope*

*after hope....*

 

oh i know! i cried when she turned him down the first time....i was like, "No Natalie, you have to go for it, you will love him!"...little did i know. i think he really did love her more than she could ever understand.

 

*It's a darling moment, I agree! And you're so right, it does tell us A LOT about Sam. he's*

*taking note of his surroundings, he's curious and he is interested in people. He acknowleges*

*the excitement of the locals. He also likes booze!*

 

i see him very much as a people person. he is the type of guy who could get along with anyone, with the exception of selfish guys like Britt. although they did get along for some of the time.

 

what i dont get is why Britt ever agreed to marry Natalie in the first place if he knew he was never going to do it? did he love tearing girls hearts out? i dont know. he certainly seems like that.

 

*Oh yes, Sammy was envious, Britt had EVERYTHING he (thought) he lacked.*

 

"thought" is the key word there...actually, at the end ofthe film, Sam had lots of self-confidence b/c of what he went through, he was probably more appreciative of how he grew up in contrast to how Britt grew up.

 

*"Humble and bright", like CinemAva said, you nailed her character right on the head.*

 

oh i loved her character! i wanted to see more of her with Natalie and Sam......i keep calling Natalie Wood's character, "Natalie".....sorry. heehee! you know what i mean.