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Howdy there, Miss G....

 

I also think the real heart of the story is not about Guns and Amelia, but about Amelia, Doc Dedham, and Lelani. Like in so many Ford films, it's about a broken family, only this time it moves from being broken (like the slot machine, the leaking roof, the lights, so many things get "busted" and are broken in the film) to becoming whole.

 

Now I like that a LOT. Good call, little Missy.

 

Not only are they like children, they are also, conversely, continuing the war that brought them together (and to Hawaii) in the first place. Notice the date of their anniversary ("21 years earlier"; 21 years previous to 1962 is...December 7, 1941.) These men, the Americans and the other military men that arrive, are in contrast to the harmonious Polynesians and the integrated Chinese. Donovan himself holds himself somewhat in between the two worlds of the white colonialists, of whom he's beneath, socially, and the locals, whom he seems to have knowledge of but no personal interraction. Doctor Dedham became fully integrated. He married the region's queen. He helps them, he doesn't sell them booze, he bandages their wounds, wounds his men and the war helped inflict and defend. Donovan is a bit of a roughneck, and I think Amelia has to arrive to bring him entirely into the fabric of this world of the world, even as she would. Notice the ending, Donovan and Amelia appear to be moving into the Doc's sprawling compound and he sold the saloon. I love that. I love it ends with a parade. I love that so many shots are framed by the two poles, the "pax poles" I've read in one place. Ford brings two "poles" of culture and attitudes together. I'll try to screencap some of this.

 

OH MY GOLLY.... you go girl. I love these thoughts. I like how you have put Donovan in his "place". I think all three men (Doc, Donovan, and Gilhooly) were at different levels of life following their common bond (of their service in the war) and ALL three of them go through perhaps a "final" transition (into a new life) by the end of the story. You have given me a lot to think about. (in fact I want to go back and take a closer look at some of what you have mentioned here. I will look forward to your screencaps.

 

I know as usual I'm reading WAY more into Ford than ANYONE cares to read! Too bad

 

NOT bad, I say.. ha. Not bad at ALL!! (did I mention "you go, girl?? ha.)

 

PS... Mr Movieman... Welcome to the chat, sir. What (if any) are some of your more fave (fluffy or NON fluffy) scenes??

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Hi, Squirrely Jack,

 

You talkin' to me? :P

 

> I know as usual I'm reading WAY more into Ford than ANYONE cares to read! Too bad. :P:P

 

No, actually your words are the ones that make me want to watch this one more than ever. I am getting it from Netflix along with *The Far Country* so I can catch up.

 

Let's hope I can make it through OUATITW tonight.

 

Photobucket

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There are some nice moments. The Christmas scene. The scene at the top of the hill where the talk about the plaque. (Non-fluff.)

 

I like much of what went on in the bar. Even the fight is good natured. I like the gag about the slot machine. (Fluff.)

 

Sir Francis' refers to the battle of the sexes and the parts where they really want to loosen Allen up are a bit of fun. (More fluff.)

 

Chris

(Fluffier still.)

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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> > Hi, Squirrely Jack,

>

> You talkin' to me? :P

>

 

HA!!! No, ma'am, I'd never insult you. A certain other creature was constantly

calling me a "mule" so I decided to give him a new name:

 

YoungMrL-00.jpg

 

YoungMrL-01.jpg

 

YoungMrL-02.jpg

 

:D:D

 

> > I know as usual I'm reading WAY more into Ford than ANYONE cares to read! Too bad. :P:P

>

> No, actually your words are the ones that make me want to watch this one more than ever. I am getting it from Netflix along with *The Far Country* so I can catch up.

>

 

I hope you like it---I am not kidding when I said I'm digging deeper than is necessary or that Ford intended. It's gotten to be a habit with me on his films. When I first watched DR, I did NOT like

it, just as I did not like McLintock!. It took me time to find both the humor and now, I'm

just beginning to appreciate how well directed the movie is. After all, he put a lot of care and

into DR and was enjoying himself. He's not going to just throw stuff up there, not every scene.

 

But it's a lot like McLintock! in the type of humor going on. I'll be very interested in your take.

 

> Let's hope I can make it through OUATITW tonight.

>

> Photobucket

 

A picture of Frank-JackC-Grimes! Perfect!

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>

> OH MY GOLLY.... you go girl. I love these thoughts. I like how you have put Donovan in his "place". I think all three men (Doc, Donovan, and Gilhooly) were at different levels of life following their common bond (of their service in the war) and ALL three of them go through perhaps a "final" transition (into a new life) by the end of the story. You have given me a lot to think about. (in fact I want to go back and take a closer look at some of what you have mentioned here. I will look forward to your screencaps.

>

 

Thank you, Mrs Thornton, but I am sure I will bore quite a few people over what is an entertaining

film. Wish my posts could claim that much. :D

 

You mentioned the music, that really struck me last night, as I re-watched it. I love the the

"strumming" music, how langorous it is and how certain key scenes are filmed in a way that

is harmonious with that rythm. He was so sensitive to music, but in a very subtle way.

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Hiya Mrs. Doniphan/Donovan!! (ha)

 

I love the the "strumming" music, how langorous it is

 

Ha.. I love that you used the word "langorous" ha. :-)

 

He was so sensitive to music, but in a very subtle way

 

I think he did a good job of choosing music that would evoke "memories" in the viewer sometimes, possibly even about stuff that had NOTHING to do with the film but just would enhance the mood he was trying to convey instead. (ha... does THAT make sense?) I am trying to think of a better way to say it, ha. I guess what I mean is that he was good at using "mood music" to instill feelings (about the characters or situations) in the story. And you are right... he did it (very often) in a subtle way.

 

PS: J. Palmer Cass... HA!!! Mr. Grey has yet ANOTHER new name, I love it!! ha. We use that bit around here all the time... when we see someone acting a CERTAIN way we say: "Hey... It's J. Palmer Cass.... but I think I will just call him JACK" ha. :D

 

PS JACKIE (the GOOD kinda "Jack" ha.) YOU'VE never seen Donovan's REEF??? woohoo... I will look forward to hearing your comments for sure, little young'un. (and PSS.. I still have PLENTY of Pepto if you need it while you are watching Once Upon a Time in the BLAH BLAH BLAH!!... ha. GOOD luck, kid) :D

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Thanks, ma'am! I am just happy that if I am going to have to watch it, I don't have to watch on the computer. That is what stopped me before. It's an uncomfortable movie, and I found that sitting here, the urge to get up and away from the film was too great for me! I suddenly became very aware of how hard my chair was..... and how much I didn't want to sit here for three hours.

 

Maybe if I get my snuggly blanket and a drink, I will be able to watch the suspense unfold a little easier.

 

I am looking forward to Donovan - mainly for Lee Marvin, and now, since you mentioned her here, Elizabeth Allen.

 

By the way, Frank, I have to agree with the ladies, you ARE a jac ... no, wait! What I mean to say is, your judgment of John Wayne as an actor who really works well with his leading ladies is right on. He gives a lot to them and they return the favor. I love the way Wayne is attuned to his partner's needs in most all his films. He seems very aware of when to give focus and when to take it.... and he isn't stingy, or trying to hog the scene. I think he liked to give focus to his leading ladies. He was acutely aware that when the camera came to him it could be even more powerful than if he just had the camera the whole time. Many of Wayne's best moments (and my favorites) are of him simply looking at someone. He realized that acting is what happens in between the lines. That is something I am just starting to understand.

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wow, i just love this coversation guys! im so excited about it! how silly is that!

 

goodness, i just realized that i was really tired last night and left without saying goodnight! will you ever forgive me Mrs. Quiet Man and Scooby-doo?

 

i cant wait to come back! i have to go to class now, so tootles everyone until later! :D:D:D:D

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>

> I think he did a good job of choosing music that would evoke "memories" in the viewer sometimes, possibly even about stuff that had NOTHING to do with the film but just would enhance the mood he was trying to convey instead. (ha... does THAT make sense?) I am trying to think of a better way to say it, ha. I guess what I mean is that he was good at using "mood music" to instill feelings (about the characters or situations) in the story. And you are right... he did it (very often) in a subtle way.

>

 

I think you've expresed that very well. He knew the power of familiar tunes, he even re-used music from earlier films which carried their specific associations. Wonderful.

 

> PS: J. Palmer Cass... HA!!! Mr. Grey has yet ANOTHER new name, I love it!! ha. We use that bit around here all the time... when we see someone acting a CERTAIN way we say: "Hey... It's J. Palmer Cass.... but I think I will just call him JACK" ha. :D

>

 

That's adorable!

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Hi Tea! Hurry back, we need your long black gloves on the double! ;)

 

Hi Mrs Thornton,

You mentioned brilliantly how Lee Marvin's character nicely translates his chaotic

presence from Liberty Valance into Boats Gillhooley. I also like the contrast

between Marvin's Liberty fighting the efforts that would eventually bring in the railroad

to Shinbone to Gillhooley's childish playing with a toy train:

 

train-lv.jpg

 

train-dr.jpg

 

I can't take credit for noticing the parallel about Liberty and the trains, I read it in Tag

Gallagher's wonderful book, but I thought it was too cute not to share. :)

 

It's so much fun to look for references to Ford's earlier films!

 

Donovan/Doniphon (the name Donovan goes way back in Ford's movies)

 

Dottie Lamour was the heroine of The Hurricane, Ford's beautiful island

picture from 1937.

 

The ketch that brings Amelia to Haleakaloah is John Ford's The Araner and

the actor playing its captain is Frank Baker, who goes back with Ford to the silent days

and was one of his closest friends (he appears, often uncredited, in scores of Ford's

movies):

 

DonovansReef-03.jpg

DonovansReef-04.jpg

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Hey Shaggy!

 

*The Simpsons is hilarious! That show kills me.*

 

i dont see how The Simpsons is so appealling.....maybe its just me and my naivity, but i dont get 80% of what they say! i was at a meeting for my 40 Days group and the three guys at one end of the table start quoting lines from The Simpsons and one of them was apparently playing the part of Homer and one was playing he part of FRANK GRIMES and they were saying the silliest things, i had no earthly idea what any of it meant.

 

*okay First of all, Frenchy didnt have to throw all those things at Destry,*

 

*No, but it was funny! Temperamental women. Is there anything but?*

 

oh so thats what you think of us! well that certainly explains why youre so mean!

 

*You just like violence!*

 

me? violent? youre the one who called Mrs. Miniver a violent person, why in the world would i believe you? ;)

 

*Yes. The water-skiing scene is my favorite in the film. Wayne's reactions are terrific. Those are funny to me.*

 

finally we agree! i must say im rather surprised! i really think Elizabeth Allen was one of his best co-stars...they has such chemistry; justthe way they looked at each other gave me goosebumps!

 

*what bothered you so much?*

 

*The goofiness of Donovan and Gilhooley and all the boozy brawlin'.*

 

yes but it was pure fun! they are best friends relatively speaking and you new they were.

 

*That's right. I believe Wayne really helps out his female co-stars with his ability to react to them. As much as I love Ryan and Mitchum, they don't do this. But Ryan and Mitchum are different kind of leading men, especially Ryan.*

 

For me, Mitchum would be the most different, b/c he was more forceful with women, which i didnt really like of him as a tough macho guy. i mean, i like a lot of his movies, just some of his characters bother me. Ryan can be really macho when he wants to be, but i love his characters more so! Robert Ryan was a little more on the romantic tough guy side, like The Duke.

 

*That scene is all right. It's an important one because Lelani (Jacqueline Malouf) puts Amelia in her place about honoring tradition. Maybe the tradition is silly to some or most, but it means something to someone. Even Donovan and Gilhooley's birthday brawl is a tradition that brings them together.*

 

This movie is very much about different cultures splashing together and tradition coing into play, but i also think it shows a lot of about first impresions too. Amelia is a great example of this, just as all of yall have said. she came there putting on stuffy act, making everyone think she was a blue blood spoiled brat, but there was much more to her, and in her own way, she put them in their place too, by showing them that you cant read a book by its cover, especially Donovan.

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Hellooooooo Mrs D/D (ha) :D

 

I also like the contrast between Marvin's Liberty fighting the efforts that would eventually bring in the railroad to Shinbone to Gillhooley's childish playing with a toy train:

 

WOW I had not even THOUGHT of that... I liked all those comparison/contrasts between other Fordies that you posted... (especially Dorothy Lamour... WOW I had totally overlooked the fact that she was in both films) (PS... I love The Hurricane, by the way) (and am I reading you right... the boat was Ford's own? Wow.. it was a beauty)

 

PS: Miss Butterscotchie...

 

goodness, i just realized that i was really tired last night and left without saying goodnight! will you ever forgive me Mrs. Quiet Man and Scooby-doo?

 

Well, I can't speak for Scooby, but as for ME, nothing to forgive youngun! :-) It's nice to have you here WHENEVER you can be around. :-)

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> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

> Hellooooooo Mrs D/D (ha) :D

>

 

Helloooo Mrs Thornton! ;)

 

>

> WOW I had not even THOUGHT of that... I liked all those comparison/contrasts between other Fordies that you posted... (especially Dorothy Lamour... WOW I had totally overlooked the fact that she was in both films) (PS... I love The Hurricane, by the way) (and am I reading you right... the boat was Ford's own? Wow.. it was a beauty)

>

 

Yes, The Araner was his. One of the real draws for him making this movie was so that

he could be on his beloved boat most of the time. I wonder who has it now, or if it was

scrapped. I read somewhere about its fate but have, typically, forgotten what it was.

 

I wish TCM would air The Hurricane, Flesh, Arrowsmith and The Prisoner of Shark Island

in a sort of mini-festival of lesser known---but excellent---Ford films. They did air most of

these a couple of years ago but I'm not sure if Flesh has ever been broadcast on TCM.

 

Throw in The Whole Town's Talking and you get an overview of just how good he was

at all sorts of genres and styles (gangster, comedy, melodrama, adventure, historical).

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I wish TCM would air The Hurricane, Flesh, Arrowsmith and The Prisoner of Shark Island

in a sort of mini-festival of lesser known---but excellent---Ford films. They did air most of

these a couple of years ago but I'm not sure if Flesh has ever been broadcast on TCM.

 

From your keyboard to TCM'S ears...ha. Out of all of those films, the only one I have seen is The Hurricane.

 

Throw in The Whole Town's Talking and you get an overview of just how good he was

at all sorts of genres and styles (gangster, comedy, melodrama, adventure, historical).

 

I got to see this one several months ago. I really enjoyed it a LOT. (I liked how old Edward G got to be the good guy AND the bad guy.. all at the same time, Ha) :-) And you are right... though he likely gets"pigeonholed" sometimes for his westerns, (at least it seems like that to me) I think Ford had a MUCH wider range than most folks realize.

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>

> From your keyboard to TCM'S ears...ha. Out of all of those films, the only one I have seen is The Hurricane.

>

 

I believe you would really enjoy all of them.

 

>

> I got to see this one several months ago. I really enjoyed it a LOT. (I liked how old Edward G got to be the good guy AND the bad guy.. all at the same time, Ha) :-) And you are right... though he likely gets"pigeonholed" sometimes for his westerns, (at least it seems like that to me) I think Ford had a MUCH wider range than most folks realize.

 

OH, definitely. 140 films and I'm not sure what percentage of them were westerns. Until Stagecoach in 1939, he went 13 years without directing a single one.

 

By the way, did you notice how "western" the little town in Donovan's Reef looked? Complete with a western style saloon, dusty, unpaved main street and in that screencap you took of the "spanking", did you ever wonder why Ford chose to shoot that scene at a dried up, dusty fountain covered with withered plants? In the middle of a lush, tropical paradise? Hmmmmm.....

 

(I'm at work so I can't post any caps right now to illustrate, darn it).

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did you notice how "western" the little town in Donovan's Reef looked

 

I DID notice that... right down to the fountain. I just did not put it together the way you have. I remember thinking (in the past) that the "town" did not seem NEARLY so tropical as the rest of the island but did not equate it to his Westerns, per se.

 

SHARP eye, kiddo. :-) .

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> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

> did you notice how "western" the little town in Donovan's Reef looked

>

> I DID notice that... right down to the fountain. I just did not put it together the way you have. I remember thinking (in the past) that the "town" did not seem NEARLY so tropical as the rest of the island but did not equate it to his Westerns, per se.

>

> SHARP eye, kiddo. :-) .

 

I wish I could accept the credit but I read that part, too, lol! I did notice the tangly brush over

the fountain but I didn't really follow up on that, and how it shows the fountain to be dried up.

 

So why, I wonder? Leaving aside the dusty, western aspects of the town, why the fountain

for that scene? Does it refer to the characters? Are they about to be renewed? Or does

it refer to the fact everyone in town went to the saloon for "refreshments" and abandoned

the pure water spring? Hmmmm....hmmmmmm. I have no idea. Ford doesn't put a shot

like that there without a reason. He may even have had the fountain constructed for that scene.

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Hi, Squirrely Jack,

 

:P Hi, Wrongheaded Mule.

 

Listen to the Little Miss Tea, she knows Donovan's Reef better than any of us, I think.

 

But she thinks a woman should drown a man's heart in the ocean! She's cruel!

 

I like that scene, too. Elizabeth Allen is a good sport.

 

She's rather athletic. :)

 

I think, like you say, he works to put them at ease, he shows interest and humor. That's important because being such a big, tough type, he could otherwise seem too forbidding or intimidating. Smart actor.

 

Wayne's ability to be warm and playful with his actresses is what I like MOST about him. His facial expressions are always on point. That's the comedy that DOES work for me. The facial expressions is something my grandpa was very good with and it's something I attempt to emulate. Women and children respond to it.

 

I'm amazed how well you've zeroed in on the film's backbone.

 

Yes, I'm more known for being clueless about movies. :D

 

What I hope I can write about later is how I believe the real story of the movie is, as you say, about acceptance (that's a great way to put it, I'm going to steal it) and I also think the real heart of the story is not about Guns and Amelia, but about Amelia, Doc Dedham, and Lelani. Like in so many Ford films, it's about a broken family, only this time it moves from being broken (like the slot machine, the leaking roof, the lights, so many things get "busted" and are broken in the film) to becoming whole.

 

I completely agree with you. How did that feel? :P I also believe the film is about the Dedhams. And I think that's wonderful. I loved your listing all the broken items in the film. I didn't pick up on that. Very nicely done. You're on it.

 

I also wonder if you might consider this about the Guns/Donovan brawling. It is childish and adolescent and it's in good fun and funny (to some of us more or less) but I also think, as with all repetitive scenarios in Ford films, it serves a double purpose or a point of contrast. Not only are they like children, they are also, conversely, continuing the war that brought them together (and to Hawaii) in the first place.

 

Hmmmmm... that's very interesting. I like it! I always think Ford's showing guys boozin' and brawlin' is his way of showing male bonding. Guys don't like to say they like or love each other, so they do it via boozin' and brawlin'... together. It also has to do with respect.

 

Notice the date of their anniversary ("21 years earlier"; 21 years previous to 1962 is...December 7, 1941.) These men, the Americans and the other military men that arrive, are in contrast to the harmonious Polynesians and the integrated Chinese. Donovan himself holds himself somewhat in between the two worlds of the white colonialists, of whom he's beneath, socially, and the locals, whom he seems to have knowledge of but no personal interraction. Doctor Dedham became fully integrated. He married the region's queen. He helps them, he doesn't sell them booze, he bandages their wounds, wounds his men and the war helped inflict and defend. Donovan is a bit of a roughneck, and I think Amelia has to arrive to bring him entirely into the fabric of this world of the world, even as she would. Notice the ending, Donovan and Amelia appear to be moving into the Doc's sprawling compound and he sold the saloon. I love that.

 

That's excellent. I think you've hit on it. Doc really is at peace because he has moved on, integrated, as you wisely say. And Doc has had to fight a couple wars.

 

I love it ends with a parade.

 

Sigh. That drove me nuts.

 

I love that so many shots are framed by the two poles, the "pax poles" I've read in one place. Ford brings two "poles" of culture and attitudes together. I'll try to screencap some of this.

 

That's terrific!

 

I know as usual I'm reading WAY more into Ford than ANYONE cares to read! Too bad.

 

I like what you've been reading. Donovan's Reef is a good film. There is no denying that.

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But she thinks a woman should drown a man's heart in the ocean! She's cruel!

 

Gasp! i most certainly do not! thats not what i said!

 

i said that Mary Rafferty had to leave Paul Scott, because he would have defied his father by marrying her and leaving the mill, b/c thats how much he loved her and broken both his parents hearts, even though they would not have rejected their marriage.....a little more clear now!? honestly i dont know what to do with you sometimes!

 

*Yes, I'm more known for being clueless about movies.*

 

thats the first thing you've said right all day! ;)

 

okay now does she look like the type of woman who would drown a man's heart in the ocean? NO!!

 

greer_peck_valleydecision_pubport.jpg

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THIS JUST IN: A stunned public was left to wonder today as Frank Grimes was heard to say: Donovan's Reef is a good film. There is no denying that. Reaction from the crowd was a mixture of amazed silence.. and utter SHOCK. (ha!!!)

 

So... there's NO denying it... And yet... you keep trying.... :P :p :P :p :P :p :P and :P

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How do, Burnt Toastmaker -- No way. Ha. Who needs a trap when we have rope, hatpins, and entire arsenal of "persuasive" devices to keep you on your toes. ha.

 

That sounds like you are looking to get me off my toes. :P

 

Before I go to far into your reply to ME, I just want to say WOW about THIS (I think it was in your response to April):

 

It is one of Duke's great strengths the way he reacts with women when it comes to humour. its not like Robert Ryan or Robert Mitchum with the macho tough guy look, even though the Duke is very much a tough guy, but he gives that unique tough guy look. he makes it different and more fun to watch, i think!

 

NICELY said, sir. Your insight (when you WANT it to be..ha) is very keen and you have certainly hit on one of the acting "strengths" that makes the Duke so popular. Methinks you are MORE of a fan of his than you let on, sometimes. At the very least you seem to see in him more than just the stereotype that so many others trip up on. He had a much wider range than a lot of folks give him credit for. (and I HAVE seen you speak highly of him and his acting ELSEWHERE, ha, so I know this is NOT a new thing for you... ha. It is just good to see you ADMIT it again..ha.

 

Those were Sweet T's words, not mine! I wrote about how horrible Wayne was an actor. :P

 

I think I mentioned in Jackies "Punch" thread that I tend to like comedy in my fight scenes.

 

Yes, I caught you saying that.

 

and there is just something about the humor that goes along w/ this sort of tradition in Ford films (especially) that I DO find entertaining. Mostly because it is NOT the main focus of the story. (I am thinking of some of the other films w/ big fight scenes too, like... of course... the big BRAWL in The Quiet Man, (my favorite) but also some of those cavalry movies (Like say, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon) To me those moments are just for fun and they bring out some of the more entertaining (and possibly even some of the more endearing aspects (though that doesn't SOUND like it would make sense) of some of the characters. (and PS: my fave Ford "brawl scenes USUALLY have McLaglen in them... he was a "master" at roughhousing for laughs..ha)

 

And it's all those "boys will be boys" scenes in Ford's films that I do not like. They just don't interest me. I rarely ever find them funny. And I say that liking Victor McLaglen. I will laugh at him at other times, most especially when Maureen calls him an arsonist in Rio Grande.

 

Now I can see that too. I think there COULD be a whole other way Ford MIGHT have taken this film and it would have been VERY moving and much more "dramatic" as you say. Why he (or the writer) went on the lighter side may be one of those "mysteries" we can only speculate about. But I don't MIND so much as you that it is more of a comedy. I think it is a heartwarming film for a LOT of the reasons you have mentioned (the "acceptance" aspect, especially)

 

It's a beautiful film, in many regards. And, yet, I list it was my least favorite Ford film. I didn't find it very entertaining. It's almost as if Donovan's Reef is the flipside of Wagon Master with me. I didn't find much emotion in the latter yet I found plenty in the former. But from an entertainment point of view, I found the latter to be quite good and the former to be lacking. The mixture of cute and goofy was too much for me.

 

I like how they were able to erase all that lost time and just start all over again. It IS a lot about just accepting one another for who you are (and not holding grudges) in the here and now.

 

It really is. And it must have been tough for Amelia to know her father had a whole 'nother family and here she was left out in the cold. Many would have a tough time accepting that. Doc did explain how he felt he was more needed in Hawaii, but that doesn't make the feeling any better to the one who wasn't chosen.

 

And going back to Leilani (especially in the scene where she figures out WHY she and the other kids are getting MOVED out of their home) to me was a very powerful moment. I bet up until THAT moment, she never doubted WHO she was or where she fit in to the world around her. It is a HARD thing to learn that "hate" is out there in the world... and even harder when it invades your part of the world... (even if it is only "perceived" hate)

 

You've got it. It was a slap in the face for Lelani. I like how you mentioned how Lelani probably never experienced such a thing in her life until then. That's rough.

 

Amelia did not REALLY have the prejudices they THOUGHT she would... but again... the fact that she MIGHT have had them is one of the sad truths that all kids have to learn eventually... sometimes the world is an ugly place. I may not be saying this well... I just know that it used to NEVER enter in to my child's mind that people might not be as kind all the time (as we are trying to teach HER to be) but as she gets older... she becomes more and more aware that mean peopld DO exist... and sometimes their "meaness" can hurt.

 

Yes, it's one of those real world lessons that can sting.

 

And I think Amelia did have some of those prejudices, she just came to understand and accept those who are different than her, yet also the same.

 

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Burnt Toastmaker

 

HA!!!! Sawdust Eater!!! (ha) :P

 

That sounds like you are looking to get me off my toes

 

Only a few inches off the ground.... it would be a SWINGIN' time.. ha. :P

 

I wrote about how horrible Wayne was an actor

 

Ok... maybe it will be a few FEET off the ground, now....

 

And it's all those "boys will be boys" scenes in Ford's films that I do not like. They just don't interest me. I rarely ever find them funny. And I say that liking Victor McLaglen. I will laugh at him at other times, most especially when Maureen calls him an arsonist in Rio Grande.

 

Ha... she is really good at letting him have it. (My favorite bit for her and him (is in the Quiet Man) and she raises that big heavy mixing bowl at him and says something like "You do, and there'll be a fine wake in this house tonight") HEY... that is another addition I should make to my ARSENAL for you... a big heavy duty mixing bowl... it would make QUITE and impression on you, I'm SURE! :P ha.

 

It's a beautiful film, in many regards.

 

Well at LEAST you are willing to go that far. And that is worth SOMETHING.

 

And, yet, I list it was my least favorite Ford film. I didn't find it very entertaining. It's almost as if Donovan's Reef is the flipside of Wagon Master with me. I didn't find much emotion in the latter yet I found plenty in the former. But from an entertainment point of view, I found the latter to be quite good and the former to be lacking. The mixture of cute and goofy was too much for me.

 

Now I had to sort of "mull" over what you are saying here.... and I think I understand (because comparing those two films (for me) is like comparing apples to.... ha... ORANGUTANS.. ha. Not even the same TYPE of movie. But still, I think I see what you are trying to say (at least in comparing why you like one, but not the other and what they both have going for them and what you think they both lack, etc)

 

I think Amelia did have some of those prejudices, she just came to understand and accept those who are different than her, yet also the same.

 

I will stop just short of saying "prejudices" but will agree she likely had some "preconceived" notions regarding the culture and customs. I like the scene you posted about her asking if Leilani believed in gods and goddess because I think the ANSWER she got was a TERRIFIC example of what a mature and grown up kid Leilani was. And I think that, along w/ the plaque that was up there on that hillside really OPENED Amelia's eyes, too as to how her preconceived notions really WERE just that (notions) and that in reality there was a lot more going on (with all the people she was coming to know) than she realized.

 

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PS Little Butterscotchie... HOW could I have forgotten those LOVELY black gloves??????????????? ha

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 22, 2009 4:02 PM

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