Movie Rambles

[CineMaven]

Sure thing. I'm watching what I taped this afternoon ("Possessed" "The Great Lie" and "Mildred Pierce") and am waiting to see the Richard Gere interview re-run at 11:00pm. You've piqued my interest. And to think...I saw him in "American Gigolo" a hundred years ago. Are the stars getting older or am I?

 

Hey, don't answer that!

[MissGoddess]

I posted some screencaps from *The Great Lie* for Bronxie in her MOM/THANKSGIVING

thread. I cracked up at that scene, check it out after you've seen the movie (it's a good

one).

[Film_Fatale]

I posted some screencaps from The Great Lie for Bronxie in her MOM/THANKSGIVING

thread. I cracked up at that scene, check it out after you've seen the movie (it's a good

one).

 

Oh, those were awesome screencaps... as always!

[CineMaven]

Where would I find that thread, please. I'd like to check it out.

[Film_Fatale]

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=137943&tstart=0

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> Where would I find that thread, please. I'd like to check it out.

 

Right heah, ma'am:

 

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=137943&tstart=0

[Film_Fatale]

I think there is an echo here...

[CineMaven]

Thank you Ms. G. I see your link. And I remember the scene well. I can still hear Astor's clipped way of talking about the 'lettuce leaf.' Astor and Davis were wonderful together. George gets a bit in the way...

 

Thanx!

[Film_Fatale]

Thanx!

 

You're welcome! B-)

[molo14]

Hi MissGoddess,

 

I admit I haven't read the many discussions of *Gone With The Wind* that take place on this board but I have seen *Gone With The Wind* many times. I asked if Scarlett was in lust with Ashley. Can you give me the short answer on why this is a ludicrous statement? I really am curious. I don't necessarily think that myself but I thought it was worth asking.

 

If this makes up for it at all. I watched *Stranded* with Kay Francis and George Brent last night and I liked George in this one very much.. He was very animated and and a very strong and principled character. I'll admit I might have been wrong to label him boring. I am starting to change my mind about him.

[Film_Fatale]

I liked what Richard Gere had to say about The Misfits and Gable in

particular.

 

He had a lot of interesting things to say... about musicals, and also about John Wayne, Montgomery Clift, Henry Fonda, and of course Gable too.

 

I was just a bit perplexed that Elvis cracked up like he did at the mention of Rhonda Fleming... and obviously, he has no idea how to pronounce machismo.

[MissGoddess]

If this makes up for it at all. I watched Stranded with Kay Francis and George Brent last night and I liked George in this one very much.. He was very animated and and a very strong and principled character. I'll admit I might have been wrong to label him boring. I am starting to change my mind about him.

 

Isn't he adorable? OK, you don't have to think he's adorable.

That you find him possibly not-boring is progress enough.

 

Now let's see if I can maybe I can change your mind about Scarlett and Ashley.

 

To really understand that girl you simply must keep in mind where she comes from,

who raised her. She had this aristocratic, refined mother who was the only human

being Scarlett was ever afraid of. I don't mean an unhealthy fear, I mean awe.

Mrs. O'Hara was the emobidment of every ideal Scarlett, in her limited understanding,

believed was good and IDEAL. She longed in her heart to be just like her---that tearful

confession to Rhett was actually one of her more honest moments. But Scarlett was

her Pa's daughter---earthy, ambitious (a climber, really) and impetuous, not given to

self-reflection. Scarlett actually does not see herself as she really is. She likes to

think she is a "fine lady" in many respects, the spoiled Southern belle, daughter of

one of the leading families of the county. In fact, she was rather rambunctious and

willful, constantly flouting convention and oblivious to what people really thought of

her (like her Pa). In Ashley, her cousin, she sees the same qualities she

worships in her mother. Ashley is her "knight in shining armour", the hero of her

little girl ideals. He's also the son of THE leading familiy in the county and nothing

pleases her vanity more than to think she can win him (just like Gerald felt about

Ellen---who, like Scarlett did, he held in great awe). She projects all her fantasies

and vanity onto him.

 

Rhett, on the other hand is the only man to awaken Scarlett's physical desire

and for most of the story, she is confused and repulsed by these feelings because

she's in denial. Rhett seems to represent all that is vulgar and crude, the opposite

of her ideal. The irony is that Ashley himself, as Rhett astutely sums him up

in his midnight confrontation with Scarlett, is just as confused. He is the one

who "lusts" for Scarlett, she triggers his desire as his beloved Melanie cannot.

 

It helps if you read the book, because so much of this is explained more fully but

the movie really does get this stuff in, through character, without resorting to

exposition. That's one of the many reasons I admire this movie so.

[Film_Fatale]

It helps if you read the book, because so much of this is explained more fully but

the movie really does get this stuff in, through character, without resorting to

exposition. That's one of the many reasons I admire this movie so.

 

I really would like to read the books, one of these days - but in the meantime, I agree with you that the movie does get a lot of stuff in there, without overly simplistic exposition.

[molo14]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Now let's see if I can maybe I can change your mind about Scarlett and Ashley.

>

> To really understand that girl you simply must keep in mind where she comes from,

> who raised her. She had this aristocratic, refined mother who was the only human

> being Scarlett was ever afraid of. I don't mean an unhealthy fear, I mean awe.

> Mrs. O'Hara was the emobidment of every ideal Scarlett, in her limited understanding,

> believed was good and IDEAL. She longed in her heart to be just like her---that tearful

> confession to Rhett was actually one of her more honest moments. But Scarlett was

> her Pa's daughter---earthy, ambitious (a climber, really) and impetuous, not given to

> self-reflection. Scarlett actually does not see herself as she really is. She likes to

> think she is a "fine lady" in many respects, the spoiled Southern belle, daughter of

> one of the leading families of the county. In fact, she was rather rambunctious and

> willful, constantly flouting convention and oblivious to what people really thought of

> her (like her Pa).

 

Wow! Good answer. You gave me more perspective on Scarlett than I've gotten with repeated viewings of the movie. I must have been watching it on a rather superficial level at various points because your observations make perfect sense. One of the great things about the film, which Robert Osborne points out in his Oscar book, is that the story *moves*, and before you ponder too much in one scene you move on quickly to the next story point. One of the things that has always stayed with me is the scene when Scarlett returns to Tara and Mammy can't quite tell her that her mother has just passed away. Scarlett gets this look in her eyes and goes through the house calling Mother Mother! I think that part is really sad. Anyway those are great and insightful comments on Scarlett's back story and her mindset.

 

> In Ashley, her cousin, she sees the same qualities she

> worships in her mother. Ashley is her "knight in shining armour", the hero of her

> little girl ideals. He's also the son of THE leading familiy in the county and nothing

> pleases her vanity more than to think she can win him (just like Gerald felt about

> Ellen---who, like Scarlett did, he held in great awe). She projects all her fantasies

> and vanity onto him.

 

Now this part I get but I didn't think so much about the vanity part.

 

>

> Rhett, on the other hand is the only man to awaken Scarlett's physical desire

> and for most of the story, she is confused and repulsed by these feelings because

> she's in denial. Rhett seems to represent all that is vulgar and crude, the opposite

> of her ideal. The irony is that Ashley himself, as Rhett astutely sums him up

> in his midnight confrontation with Scarlett, is just as confused. He is the one

> who "lusts" for Scarlett, she triggers his desire as his beloved Melanie cannot.

 

Ohhh! That's a very good point. Scarlett's confusion and repulsion at Rhett's advances mask her desire. She doesn't want to admit to such feelings because they go against her own romantic ideals. Rhett understands all this. So my question is wrong. It's Ashley, who shares some of Scarlett's repressive sexual ideals, that actually lusts after Scarlett and kind of hates himself for it too.

 

>

> It helps if you read the book, because so much of this is explained more fully but

> the movie really does get this stuff in, through character, without resorting to

> exposition. That's one of the many reasons I admire this movie so.

 

I think it's laid out. Sometimes I'm too thick to pay attention to the obvious. Thanks for your well worded comments. You gave me a much needed refresher course in underlying feelings and outlooks. I appreciate it.

[CineMaven]

Whew! Excellently written Miss Goddess. If Molo doesn't get it after your wonderful write-up, man I dunno! You have unlocked the key to the entire movie. Hands down, it is one of the great films in motion picture history. I feel your passion for this film.

 

You write so well about the movie. Well done, ma'am.

 

Message was edited by CineMaven - 'Scuse me for butting in on your dialogue with Molo. Looks like he DID get what you wrote.

[molo14]

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> Whew! Excellently written Miss Goddess. If Molo doesn't get it after your wonderful write-up, man I dunno! You have unlocked the key to the entire movie. Hands down, it is one of the great films in motion picture history. I feel your passion for this film.

>

> You write so well about the movie. Well done, ma'am.

 

CineMaven you are so right! She did "unlock the key to the entire movie" in a very well written and clearly reasoned way. I get it now.

[MissGoddess]

Thank you for those kind words, Molo. It's only because I've practically "grown up" with Scarlett,

in a sense, that I feel like I understand her. Which is only to say I've wasted a lot of time watching

the movie and reading the book.

 

Congratulations on making the 1,000-post threshold!

 

[CineMaven]

And look at your reward, Molo. Double G.

[MissGoddess]

Many thanks, Prof.

[Film_Fatale]

Thank you for those kind words, Molo. It's only because I've practically "grown up" with Scarlett,

in a sense, that I feel like I understand her. Which is only to say I've wasted a lot of time watching

the movie and reading the book.

 

Oh, I don't think it was a waste at all! B-)

[Film_Fatale]

May I also congratulate you on your first 1k posts, molo! B-)

[molo14]

Thanks for the Gloria photo MissG. You sure know how to make a guy feel special!

[gwtwbooklover]

MissGoddes if you don't mind I would like to interject in your explanation of Scarlett/Ashley/Rhett. Ashley did lust for Scarlett but he also admired her very much and this cord of admiration was shared by Melanie, they Melanie and Ashley loved Scarlett for her strength and free spirit and this they both shared together openly to others and to each other. Ashley of course has that lust for Scarlett but who could blame her ( for loving Ashley) he LEAD her on squiring her around and he knew he had nothing in common with Scarlett and they were ill matched but he indulged in his fantasies as far as convention could let him. He never kissed her on these "dates" but he enjoyed taking her out and calling on her especially. He takes her little girl heart and swells it when he knew better but did it anyway because he can't help himself. Which leads to Rhett who fell for Scarlett the same reason Ashley does ( for her beauty) and sees the qualities in Scarlett that Ashley and Melanie both admire. It is sad that Rhett and Scarlett who don't want to lose themselves to the other which would give the other control and they feel the other mate would exploit those feelings. But it takes awhile for these 2 to fall in love it is such timing that he loves her and she's holding back and when she loves him well he doesn't reciprocate thus being at cross purposes. Yes, reading the book helps one to understand the relationship better. Many, many times Rhett is watching Scarlett to see if she does love him waiting for the love watching her as Scarlett thinks like a cat watching a mouse hole. He wants her to love him and he covers his true feelings and she therefore doesn't see it she evens questions it "he doesn't love me?" could he...darn these 2 ! The mask goes up on the both of them and when the put them down it's to late. I do have to also say that Rhett who had said to Scarlett over and over again his feelings for all things proper ( he wasn't keen on it) when he was calling on her he wasn't a marrying man, he was out for number 1, he asked her to be his mistress which is a very funny part of the book, he made fun of people, poked holes in commomnly held beliefs, the only woman he held in esteem was Melanie. So he proposes to Scarlett and is surprised that Scarlett took all his words of love being a crock to heart. He says as much oh to have my own words held against me. He asks Scarlett do you love me and she says didn't you once say that it was bad form for a man and wife to love each other and he says to her have you in all your reading ever read where the disinterested wife falls in love with her husband and she says you know I don't read but he doesn't pursue it lets it drop. He would have loved to shout his love for Scarlett from the roof tops. He LOVES Scarlett but she'd LORD it over him and vice a versa that is until she loves him and he has hit the end of his love. I love GWTW and I wish people would read it to truly understand the character of Scarlett.

[Film_Fatale]

*You sure know how to make a guy feel special! *

 

I kinda figured you'd enjoy that... B-)

[rohanaka]

Hello Molo...

 

I got to watch The Devil and Daniel Webster this weekend...

 

Let me know if the sound seemed uneven to you

 

YES...though I don't think it bothered me as much as it did you..I think the biggest problem I noticed in the sound over all was that EVERYTHING was the same volume level...stuff that was supposed to be background noises was as loud as the dialogue...it was kind of hard to hear over the din. But so long as it was just one on one conversations....the sound was ok. The only time I found it too difficult was during the trial scene....there was so much "weird" noise going on w/ the voices I couldn't always discern what they were saying.

 

I don't remember too much about what we studied w/ regard to this story in High School. In fact we may have studied more about the author than we did the story itself (It seems I recall spending more time on By the Waters of Babylon ...also by SVBenet. But even that is a bit fuzzy...It's been about 30 years since I read all that, and as my husband likes to say...I've slept since then.)

 

But I do think the movie is quite a bit different than the short story in terms of all the details...yet the basics are certainly all there. If I recall from what I saw in some of the stuff I looked up online...the author had a hand in the script as well

 

I looked and looked on here to see if you ever posted your "ramble" on this one, but did not come across it...I would be interested in hearing from you and the Grey Guy...since you two started me on this "kick" and also from anyone else interested...I'm curious about all your thoughts on the story and the characters... I will post more of my own at another time...it's late and I need to call it a night. I will only say for now that I found myself thinking of several other stories similar to this one...two in particular...Damn Yankees came to mind...but also one that might not be as well known here...A Simple Plan. It is not at all the same in terms of plot...but the characters all find their lives completely consumed (and changed) by the love of money....it is a very bloody movie though....extremely hard to watch. But...enough of this rambling for now....I'll hope talk to you all another time.