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Hello, Norma Jean!


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That's the bunny! And he's sticking his tongue out. It figures.

 

In their first scenes together, she sings what his character is about...

 

...and then her very next tune takes up her own agenda:

 

Are you feeling okay? You're usually not this smart. :P Great observations and

fantastic caps.

 

I never thought to compare them before but there are similarities. Maybe Marilyn

and Richard Basehart should have gotten together. Too bad her hotel wasn't across

from his.

 

Nell would have had to been a guy.

 

What do you mean?

 

Basehart's "Bobby" is gay.

 

I always sensed something very cold about her behavior with the little

girl. I now think maybe Nell was jealous of everything that girl had, and sort of

took for granted (she is a bit precocious). I think Nell probably resented her from

the start. I think that's pretty wild, daring even and that the director deserves credit

for being able to make something that subtle visually evident.

 

You could be right about that. I was definitely taken aback by Nell's rushing "Bunny"

to sleep. It felt strange to me.

 

For instance, did you notice their different reactions to the fairy tale story

Nell reads? Nell was all into it and I think she saw herself in the story, whereas

to "Bunny" it was just another bed time story that made her sleepy. Nell wants

to made beautiful and be surrounded by beauty and love like the heroine in the tale:

 

I definitely agree. Nell is the little girl who is dreaming of a prince to rescue her, the

nightingale. This sets up our story.

 

You can get an idea what her parents were like through Eddie, only they were

probably much harder on her. Maybe without knowing any better, but she came from

hard times.

 

Precisely. Nell even tells us of Eddie being like her parents. Any kind of authority

figure (resistance) is going to remind her of her parents, though. She's a caged

nightingale. Her boyfriend was her prince. Without the prince, she's still caged. And,

in her case, her cage ends up being an institution.

 

I think you're right. I don't believe Niagara calls upon too much emotional range

from MM. Bus Stop is really the only other film where she gets some good scenes.

 

Oh, I forgot about Bus Stop. That's the other Marilyn film I have high hopes for.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

>

> Are you feeling okay? You're usually not this smart. :P Great observations and

> fantastic caps.

>

 

It was just a fluke.

 

 

>

> Nell would have had to been a guy.

>

> What do you mean?[/b]

>

> Basehart's "Bobby" is gay.

>

 

Wow, I never picked up on that at all. Goes to show you that, yes, I'm usually not that smart.

 

 

>

> Precisely. Nell even tells us of Eddie being like her parents. Any kind of authority

> figure (resistance) is going to remind her of her parents, though. She's a caged

> nightingale. Her boyfriend was her prince. Without the prince, she's still caged. And,

> in her case, her cage ends up being an institution.

>

 

Yes, poor thing. Marilyn had to have found working on this character depressing, it was

all too close to her own experiences growing up in foster homes, and then, of course, it

rather pointed to the sadder aspects of her own future.

 

DB2K-114.jpg?t=1222909953

 

DB2K-115.jpg?t=1222909995

 

DB2K-116.jpg?t=1222910026

 

DB2K-117.jpg?t=1222910056

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Are you feeling okay? You're usually not this smart. Great observations and

fantastic caps.

 

It was just a fluke.

 

I figured as much. There just couldn't be any other way. :P

 

Basehart's "Bobby" is gay.

 

Wow, I never picked up on that at all. Goes to show you that, yes, I'm usually not

that smart.

 

I didn't pick up on it either until I listened to the commentary. I've since watched the

film a couple times more and it's right there. This is why I love 40s and 50s films. There

is so much being "said" but you have to know how to "listen."

 

Yes, poor thing. Marilyn had to have found working on this character depressing,

it was all too close to her own experiences growing up in foster homes, and then,

of course, it rather pointed to the sadder aspects of her own future.

 

Maybe her childhood helped her with the emotions behind the character.

 

Those are SPOILER caps, Blondle. It's one of my favorite scenes in the film, and

quite shocking for a classic film. I was all the way in Nell's camp at that reveal. But

what's great about the film is that Nell does many things after that reveal that push her

away from us. It's both shocking and sad. What a tragic figure Nell is. I love the girl.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Maybe her childhood helped her with the emotions behind the character.

>

 

I'm sure they did, but I'd rather she'd have been a poorer actress, or not one at all, and had a

happier life.

 

 

> Those are SPOILER caps, Blondle. It's one of my favorite scenes in the film, and

> quite shocking for a classic film. I was all the way in Nell's camp at that reveal. But

> what's great about the film is that Nell does many things after that reveal that push her

> away from us. It's both shocking and sad. What a tragic figure Nell is. I love the girl.

 

This thread and all my threads are designed to SPOIL. :P

 

She is a sad person and the movie is interesting in that there is lots of attraction and

some that is repellant about her.

 

DB2K-125.jpg?t=1222912707

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Maybe her childhood helped her with the emotions behind the character.

 

I'm sure they did, but I'd rather she'd have been a poorer actress, or not one at all,

and had a happier life.

 

I don't know enough about Marilyn to say anything of value. But from the outside, it seems

as if what made her happy also made her sad. She was emotionally trapped.

 

This thread and all my threads are designed to SPOIL. :P

 

Yes, but you're supposed to spoil others rotten not be a rotten spoil, Snobby. :P:P

 

She is a sad person and the movie is interesting in that there is lots of attraction and

some that is repellant about her.

 

The repellent (perfect word) is what really grabs me. How many actresses would wish to

play a messed-up young woman who wishes to off a little girl? What a fascinating character and film.

 

Here's Dr. Jekyll turning into Mrs. Hyde:

 

dontbothertoknock5.jpg

 

dontbothertoknock6.jpg

 

dontbothertoknock7.jpg

 

dontbothertoknock8.jpg

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}>

> Yes, but you're supposed to spoil others rotten not be a rotten spoil, Snobby. :P:P

>

 

Turn that upside down and you've got my philosophy. :)

 

 

>

> Here's Dr. Jekyll turning into Mrs. Hyde:

>

 

The movie is full of wonderful emotional transitions like that, especially in the character

of "Nell". She may be spiralling down but let anyone say just one word that triggers hope

and you can see her spirit rising. That the hope is often false makes it all the sadder.

 

Sometimes, though, we see her go down, like when she hears a plane overhead:

 

DB2K-27.jpg?t=1222953412

 

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Yes, but you're supposed to spoil others rotten not be a rotten spoil, Snobby.

 

Turn that upside down and you've got my philosophy. :)

 

Philosophy? More like plan of action. :)

 

The movie is full of wonderful emotional transitions like that, especially in the

character of 'Nell'. She may be spiralling down but let anyone say just one word

that triggers hope and you can see her spirit rising. That the hope is often false

makes it all the sadder.

 

Nicely said and very true.

 

Sometimes, though, we see her go down, like when she hears a plane overhead:

 

Yet another favorite scene of mine. We don't understand her pain at that moment,

but we will. It makes this scene all the more powerful if we are to recall it. In a strange

way, it's similar to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Doniphon's coffin doesn't

resonate with us when we first watch the film. It hits you much harder with every

subsequent viewing.

 

dontbothertoknock10.jpg

 

You always said kids really take to Marilyn. :P

 

dontbothertoknock9.jpg

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}>

> Philosophy? More like plan of action. :)

>

 

What good's a philosophy if it can't be put into practical action? :P

 

 

>

> Yet another favorite scene of mine. We don't understand her pain at that moment,

> but we will. It makes this scene all the more powerful if we are to recall it. In a strange

> way, it's similar to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Doniphon's coffin doesn't

> resonate with us when we first watch the film. It hits you much harder with every

> subsequent viewing.

>

 

I feel more and more sorry for her with each subsequent viewing. And yes, it's for very

similar reasons as in Valance. I guess that's what good movie making is really about,

finding creative ways to extract the strongest emotions and reactions.

 

 

>

> You always said kids really take to Marilyn. :P

>

 

Maybe Donna Corcoran is the exception. :P

 

But this little guy had no issues with her:

 

GPB-Spofford01.jpg?t=1222996216

 

GPB-Spofford02.jpg?t=1222996252

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What good's a philosophy if it can't be put into practical action? :P

 

No, no, no. The best philosophies sound good but don't work. :D

 

I feel more and more sorry for her with each subsequent viewing. And yes, it's for

very similar reasons as in Valance. I guess that's what good movie making is really

about, finding creative ways to extract the strongest emotions and reactions.

 

I have always found The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance to be very unique in that

it does make a stronger emotional impact in its second viewing. I think Don't Bother

to Knock will play similarly with me, although on a lesser level.

 

Maybe Donna Corcoran is the exception. :P

 

Do you show Don't Bother to Knock to the wee ones? It's such an uplifting film.

 

But this little guy had no issues with her:

 

Gary Cooper! He's everywhere! :P

 

dontbothertoknock11.jpg

 

dontbothertoknock12.jpg

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> What good's a philosophy if it can't be put into practical action? :P

>

> No, no, no. The best philosophies sound good but don't work. :D

>

 

You mean the worst philosophies do.

 

 

>

> Do you show Don't Bother to Knock to the wee ones? It's such an uplifting film.

>

 

What "wee ones"?

 

 

> But this little guy had no issues with her:

>

> Gary Cooper! He's everywhere! :P

>

 

It's not Gary, silly. Hawks just always liked to recycle his best lines. :P

 

Richard Widmark's expression when Nell tells him how "pretty" she thinks the hotel is

always breaks me up. Poor thing, even that dump is a paradise to her.

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DBTN02.jpg

 

Borrowing MissG's screencap, there is something wrenching about this face

and what she is saying. With that look on her face how can anyone not

worry about her. If anyone needs rescuing it's this sweet young thing. She

looks so lost and so sad, it almost makes me weep. Why, if I could, I would

go right in that frame, put my arm around Nell, and say, "Come on, let's go

get some coffee and you can tell me all about it." Now, in case you might

think that I have designs on this young thing, just perish the thought.

I am considering only her welfare. Yes, even though she is adorable

beyond any normal human imagination, all I want is her happiness.

 

:)

 

Laffite the Compassionate

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Bonjour, Mon cher Laffitte le compatissant

 

 

> {quote:title=laffite wrote:}{quote}

> DBTN02.jpg

>

> Borrowing MissG's screencap, there is something wrenching about this face

> and what she is saying. With that look on her face how can anyone not

> worry about her. If anyone needs rescuing it's this sweet young thing. She

> looks so lost and so sad, it almost makes me weep. Why, if I could, I would

> go right in that frame, put my arm around Nell, and say, "Come on, let's go

> get some coffee and you can tell me all about it." Now, in case you might

> think that I have designs on this young thing, just perish the thought.

> I am considering only her welfare. Yes, even though she is adorable

> beyond any normal human imagination, all I want is her happiness.

>

> :)

>

> Laffite the Compassionate

 

I believe you. It is Marilyn's "gift" as a performer that she left us with these images

of one who is lost and fragile and defenseless which speaks for all the lost, fragile

and defenseless ones of the world. I think it's emotional connection like that is far

more significant, in the long run, than so-called "great acting" (or rather, this is in

fact great acting). Anyone who touches the heart touches on real genius, for all the

great artists have strived to do so. I also believe it's the secret to her longevity with

the public.

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

>

> I believe you. It is Marilyn's "gift" as a performer that she left us with these images

> of one who is lost and fragile and defenseless which speaks for all the lost, fragile

> and defenseless ones of the world. I think it's emotional connection like that is far

> more significant, in the long run, than so-called "great acting" (or rather, this is in

> fact great acting). Anyone who touches the heart touches on real genius, for all the

> great artists have strived to do so. I also believe it's the secret to her longevity with

> the public.

 

Well, maybe it speaks for anyone who has ever gone through a period where they feel fragile and defenseless. I think some people who are not normally like that can go through some tough periods and find themselves feeling that way.

 

It is an interesting contrast, I think, if you compare Marilyn's expression in this screenshot with Greta Garbo's blank expression at the end of *Queen Christina* - you could almost make the argument that GG's expression is almost at the other end of emotional range and yet it doesn't necessarily mean that there is a lack of emotion, just a lack of visible emotion.

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Do you show Don't Bother to Knock to the wee ones? It's such an uplifting film.

 

What "wee ones"?

 

You've said on more than one occasion that whenever you show children Marilyn

Monroe movies that they all take to her. I'm guessing you have a Marilyn babysitter

service. :P

 

Richard Widmark's expression when Nell tells him how "pretty" she thinks the

hotel is always breaks me up. Poor thing, even that dump is a paradise to her.

 

I don't think it was the place that was pretty to her, it was the place in her in mind

that was pretty. The last time she was in a hotel was the night before her boyfriend

perished. That was the last time she was happy. She wants to go back there and

stay there.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> You've said on more than one occasion that whenever you show children Marilyn

> Monroe movies that they all take to her. I'm guessing you have a Marilyn babysitter

> service. :P

>

 

Hey - there's an idea bound to be popular with film buffs! ;)

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>

> You've said on more than one occasion that whenever you show children Marilyn

> Monroe movies that they all take to her. I'm guessing you have a Marilyn babysitter

> service. :P

>

 

Marilyn didn't babysit, I did! I just wanted to show them something that I would

enjoy, too. In the case of Marilyn, they usually took to her right away.

 

 

> Richard Widmark's expression when Nell tells him how "pretty" she thinks the

> hotel is always breaks me up. Poor thing, even that dump is a paradise to her.

>

> I don't think it was the place that was pretty to her, it was the place in her in mind

> that was pretty. The last time she was in a hotel was the night before her boyfriend

> perished. That was the last time she was happy. She wants to go back there and

> stay there.

 

That's true. The past and the present are getting all jumbled up in mind at this point,

she even thinks Jed is someone else. She clings to the one happy memory of her

entire life and keeps hoping to repeat it.

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Marilyn didn't babysit, I did! I just wanted to show them something that I would

enjoy, too. In the case of Marilyn, they usually took to her right away.

 

I just knew it! You tied them up and then gagged them. Those poor, darling kids.

 

That's true. The past and the present are getting all jumbled up in mind at this point,

she even thinks Jed is someone else. She clings to the one happy memory of her

entire life and keeps hoping to repeat it.

 

Nell's prison is that of unfulfilled love. She spent a night with her lover, a night where

she was promised she would soon become a bride to be once he returned. He never

returned and neither has her happiness. She's left to wonder and wander. It's as if

her straight jacket is a wedding dress. I really feel for her.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}>

> I just knew it! You tied them up and then gagged them. Those poor, darling kids.

>

 

Yes, that's me, the femme fatale babysitter.

 

 

>

>

> Nell's prison is that of unfulfilled love. She spent a night with her lover, a night where

> she was promised she would soon become a bride to be once he returned. He never

> returned and neither has her happiness. She's left to wonder and wander. It's as if

> her straight jacket is a wedding dress. I really feel for her.

 

Poor thing. I always think lack or loss of love is the number one most damaging thing

that can happen. This movie illustrates that quite vividly, in the guise of something else.

 

I appreciate the lack of exploitation in the handling of Nell's character. I can just see how

a different type of filmaker would make something altogether more angled to horror instead

of focusing on human character.

 

I hope more people will seek out this movie, or that TCM will try to air it so the world can

see something different from Marilyn.

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Yes, that's me, the femme fatale babysitter.

 

You're ALL femme fatale. :P

 

Poor thing. I always think lack or loss of love is the number one most damaging thing

that can happen. This movie illustrates that quite vividly, in the guise of something else.

 

Those without love are the ones who often suffer the most, emotionally so. Nell is

experiencing the absolute worst kind of love loss. She was on cloud nine and then her

lover's plane got lost in that cloud. She's still looking for his plane to come home.

 

I appreciate the lack of exploitation in the handling of Nell's character. I can just see how

a different type of filmaker would make something altogether more angled to horror instead

of focusing on human character.

 

Yes, you are right... for a change. :P

 

I hope more people will seek out this movie, or that TCM will try to air it so the world can

see something different from Marilyn.

 

I was so pleasantly stunned to find out that Marilyn played such a tragic character. I thought she was only glitz, glamour, and comedy. None of that is present in Don't Bother to Knock. It's a very serious film.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Yes, that's me, the femme fatale babysitter.>

> I was so pleasantly stunned to find out that Marilyn played such a tragic character. I thought she was only glitz, glamour, and comedy. None of that is present in Don't Bother to Knock. It's a very serious film.

 

So....what might your next Marilyn film be? The only "serious" ones left, really, are *Niagara*

and *Bus Stop* (which is partly comic).

 

Niagara-Fallssmall.jpg

 

BusStop-still.jpg

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