Hello, Norma Jean!

[MissGoddess]

Cher Lafitte, if you watch it again to "refresh" your memory please come back to this thread

to talk about it.

 

I know what you mean about the scene in the bar, as a woman I felt a little uncomfortable

at the length of it...but then I remembered how hard it was for the director and everybody

to get Marilyn to the set for any scenes and I guess they wanted to get as much film on

her as they could while she was there! lol! MM often pushed for scenes like that, too,

including the booby scene in bed. She talked about that alot, how proud she was to

"sneak" that in. As if John Huston had any "problem" with it, ha! So silly billy.

[molo14]

*Laffite wrote: My initial recommendation was based on your reluctance to see Marilyn because of the melancholy aspects, not so much with regard to Rosalyn but in seeing Marilyn herself. There's some baggage there since it her last movie etc etc etc. How did that go for you?*

 

It went pretty well. It's hard not to think about it. The movie is always bringing up death and finality and nothing lasts forever... It's kind of hard not to think of it being the end for Monroe and Gable with all those triggers. Throw in Clift and it's even more so. Heck, I was even mourning Thelma Ritter too, but then I always do that. The movie had an eerie solemn quality to it because of the theme and the lead actors. However, I wasn't depressed by it. It just made me feel thoughtful and reflective and made me think about things. That's one of the reasons I liked it. The final scene was hopeful and the scenes with the horses wasn't as disturbing as I thought it might be. It was actually kind of nice to see that scene play out the way it did. I couldn't help but think of Gable doing his own stunts though. I don't know how Marilyn's life and career would have turned out had she lived. She seems so fixed in time to me. I just think it was a great final tribute to both her and Gable.

[molo14]

*MissGoddess wrote: Molo darling! Your words touched me very much because you see such wonderful things in the movie like I do. .........How beautiful. How wonderful.*

 

Well with feedback like that I guess I'll have to watch (gasp!!) *Random Harvest* next.

That's been sitting on my shelf too.

 

*The Misfits* really provoked a thoughtful response from me. It stirs up emotions. I like it when films do that.

[CineMaven]

I wouldn't dare jump in here after reading all the eloquent thoughts you and others have for "The Misfits." Enjoying the read. Little do you know (and I'm telling you now) that I print up certain threads and save them for my 1.5 hour ride to work.

 

The writing makes me wanna see the film again, but seeing and knowing it was the end for those three icons makes me really have to gear up for seeing it.

 

Nicely done.

[MissGoddess]

Feel welcome to jump in anytime, CineMaven!

 

[MissGoddess]

"Dogs never bite me. Just humans."

 

 

[MissGoddess]

"Dreaming about being an actress, is more exciting then being one."

 

 

 

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

Hey, Misfit Molo -- Sorry to be so long in posting but I got sidetracked.

 

Unforgivable. You would never find me doing the same.

 

I really liked the film more than I thought I might. It's really one of those films

that deals with life, emotions and such and I always find those movies intriguing.

They just tend to put me in a pensive mood, but that's a good thing.

 

I had a strong feeling that you would like The Misfits, Molo. It's a film that

touches on many different emotions. All of the characters are in great need.

 

FrankGrimes wrote: From a story point of view, I don't find the film to be

depressing. I believe it is human.

 

I agree, and you know how I love movies that explore humanity.

 

Uh-huh. The Misfits is an emotional safari.

 

This movie has a lot of feeling to it. Feelings of loss, feelings of sadness,

feelings of joy for thinking only of and in the moment, feeling the excitement of

something new, but being human we have to question it all as well. All these

human feelings can be so overwhelming sometimes that you just might need to

step outside look up at the sky and say HELP.

 

Wonderfully written and magnificently expressed. I like characters who are NOT in

control of all their emotions and situations. I find such struggles to be more human

and to be more compelling to watch. I'm a big fan of vulnerability. Now that's not

to say that I don't like manipulative femmes fatale, either. They are great fun, too.

 

I thought it was interesting that each of the characters expressed some kind of

regret or feeling of loss. Roslyn talked of her parents never being there. ****

speaks of his dead wife and the war. Perce recalls his father's death and how

it changed his mother. Gay is more guarded, but the scene where he is drunk

and calling for his children tells us something about him.

 

Dead on. Each of those characters is lost thanks to loss. How each deals with

their loss and their being lost is what brings out their differing personalities and

viewpoints on life.

 

And Isabelle? Well, she has been through some things in her life which barely

find expression in her cynical humor. She lays it all out for Roslyn telling her

about men and life through the prism of her own hard shaped world view....and

all with a drink and a weary smile and a comforting realization that it doesn't

much matter what we do as long as we're doing something. Just keep living

I guess. Having shared her worldly wisdom with us, and with Roslyn, she exits

the film.

 

Your words are once again poignant. Isabelle's way of dealing with her own loss

is sage cynicism. But don't let that fool you into believing she doesn't hurt. She's

using that as her shield. Just look at how she lights up when she sees her

ex-husband, even with his current wife. They are to stay with Izzy for a week.

 

I also like when Isabelle speaks of "Andy Gump." Her wishes and desires come

to the surface, but her cynicism prevents her from acting. Not to mention, she's

still carrying a torch for her ex-husband.

 

Isabelle (speaking to Roslyn about Gay): You know, he reminds me of that

cowboy friend I told you about. Had one arm gone, but he was more man with

one arm than any other man is with two.

 

Gay: Oh?

 

Isabelle: I mean like cookin'.

 

Gay: Oh!

 

Isabelle: No, I'm serious. He could take a whole panful of chops, throw them

up in the air, and they all came down on the other side.

 

Roslyn: Who is he? Maybe they know him.

 

Isabelle: Darling, you can't go 'round lookin' for a man.

 

Gay: What'd he... take off?

 

Isabelle: No, not exactly. He just never came back.

 

(Gay laughs with her.)

 

Isabelle: Andy Powell. You ever...

 

Gay: ... sure. Called him "Andy Gump" sometimes?

 

Isabelle: That's him!

 

Roslyn: You know where he is?

 

Gay: Yeah, saw him at the rodeo only last month.

 

Roslyn (speaking excitedly to Isabelle): Maybe we can find him.

 

Isabelle: Dear girl, you've got to stop thinking you can change things.

 

Roslyn: But if there is something you can do I'd... I don't know what to do, but if

I knew, I'd do it.

 

You really get a wonderful glimpse into Isabelle and Roslyn with that

exchange. Izzy is pessimistic with love while Roslyn remains optimistic. Roslyn

is extremely hopeful despite of what she has endured.

 

I kind of felt as if Roslyn was entering into an alien world with these guys. I give

her credit for jumping into it. I like the honesty of her feelings too and I think they

can be based on her own experiences. Statements like: If I'm going to be alone,

I want to be by myself, and when she says to **** about his wife: Maybe thats

what killed her. I mean a little complaining helps sometimes maybe, are pretty

profound stuff if you think about it. I liked the way Monroe delivers Roslyn's lines

in that last quote. She does it haltingly as if she knows that she may be crossing

a line but she still says it. Later, when she is talking to Gay, she is more direct:

 

Gay: You should've seen his wife. She helped pour cement and knocked in nails. She

was a real good sport.

 

Roslyn: Now she's dead because he didn't have a spare tire.

 

I really liked that scene. She's not just going along with everything these men say.

 

Roslyn is certainly not afraid to speak her feelings in front of the men. She's too

emotionally honest to hold back. If something bothers her, she will let it be known.

 

I agree with that. I see the theme of loss as I said earlier. Also a man's need to

be his own man. Gay often reminds the others that whatever they have to do to

eke out an existence in this world it's better than wages. That's important to him

and it always resonates with **** and Perce. It's important to live on your own

terms to be independent of bosses and schedules.

 

Roslyn: Well what do you do with yourself?

Gay: Just live.

Roslyn: How do you just live?

Gay: Well you start by goin' to sleep.....

 

Roslyn never really questions this basic idea directly. She questions everything

that springs from it though. She doesn't understand this peculiar man's world

she has stumbled upon. She doesn't know why Perce would put himself at

such risk, or why Gay would let him. She views life as a fragile thing. Birds

and rabbits are vulnerable creatures. They certainly can't be killed. Why? Roslyn

seems driven to preserve the weak. She cringes at the thought of their

destruction. Is this a trait driven by her own need for self preservation? Just

a thought.

 

I agree with you about Roslyn. She is mother. She wishes to take care and

comfort all that is around her. You are correct about Gay's stand but... read on.

 

MissGoddess wrote: I find this scene interesting and it illustrates a lot of what

you both said. It's interesting,too, because Eli Wallach's character, "Gido", who

is the most conflicted of the bunch, is the one who puts into words the essence

of each of them....

 

FrankGrimes wrote:I think "Gido" is the most frustrated of the lot because he is

still holding onto the past and its demons. He's where "Gay" used to be.

 

So where is Gay now? Is he frustrated about the old way of life disappearing? His

determination about "mustanging" even if it may not be worth it. He seems to be

the last person to notice this. His talk of the old days to Roslyn when there were

more wild horses and and there was more demand for them than just dog food.

I found that all very fascinating.

 

Roslyn changes Gay. Gay wrangles the mustang to the ground, but he then

frees him. The mustang is he. When he cuts the mustang free, he's cutting

himself free. Gay not only fought society all his life, he fought himself. He's

now an older man, a tired man. He needs something else to live for than

a credo. He needs a woman. I believe Gay is finally ready to live for others

than just self.

 

Gido (to Gay): We don't need anybody in the world. You know that now, don't you?

 

What Gay knows now is that he NEEDS somebody in the world.

 

Gay: It's... it's like roping a dream now. Yeah, I just got to find another way

to be alive, that's all. If there is one... anymore.

 

I think Gay's final sentence is his not knowing if Roslyn will wish to be with him

after what he did with the mustangs.

 

"Gido" seemed ready to break out into an anxiety attack whenever Roslyn

was around. I could definitely see his frustration.

 

Gay was very good at kindly outmuscling Gido, and I believe Gido was very

aware of it. Gido knew he was losing out. This only added to his frustration. Not

only could he not have Roslyn, he was losing Gay, too.

 

I really liked Gable's performance.

 

As did I. He's still very "Gable" but there is great emotion attached to his performance.

 

I've always liked him and his easy charm and that gleam in his eye was

still there after all these years.

 

I felt the gleam (perfect word choice by you) was particularly strong in

The Misfits. And I really like how the gleam turns into a pyschotic glare

during his battle with the mustangs. He loses all of his charm then.

 

His drunk scene and the scenes toward the end were all well played. It was

a fitting exit for "The King."

 

I haven't seen much Gable, but I'm guessing his final performance has to be one

of his most emotional. I thought he was sensational.

 

Clift's role as Perce was also well done.

 

Of all the actors in the film, I feel the most sad with Monty. His fall was so drastic

and it just pains me to see him as weak as he was. I do love his

performance. I thought it was very touching, very real.

 

I think his introduction into the film added a lot to the mix. It gave Roslyn

more angles to figure out. Her nurturing quality really came to the front with him.

 

You are very correct about that. We get to see Roslyn as a mother with

Perce. I believe it's her scenes with Perce that make you understand just how

loving a girl she is.

 

I can't say enough good things about Ritter's Isabelle. It would have been

interesting to see her take on the subsequent events after she goes home.

 

Again, I'm in complete agreement. Ritter was the best at playing wise-cracking

dames but her "Isabelle" was different than the other characters I have seen her

play. There is great pain beneath her wisecracks in The Misfits. She's hiding.

 

Marilyn was fun to watch in more one ways then one.

 

You said it. I haven't watched many Marilyn films, but I highly doubt I will like

a performance of hers more than her "Roslyn." She hits all the emotional notes.

 

I liked the feeling of being out of one's depth and "lost in life" that she could

uniquely bring to that role.

 

Again, without knowing much about Marilyn, I felt as if "Roslyn" was a mirror

image of Marilyn.

 

She was very touching at times and always beautiful.

 

Very much so. I like that she was carrying some extra weight and she seemed

very comfortable with it.

 

I like what you all were talking about earlier. How she was involved in the scene

even when it didn't directly involve her character. It's little things like that that really

added to her performance. I noticed it particularly in the way she played with the

dog. Also when we first meet Perce at the phone booth and he's talking to Gay

through the window of the car. She is looking at and kind of sizing him up, listening

to what they are saying, smiling when the men are joking, being a little uncomfortable

about not being totally in on things yet. It's very much like how anyone would be

reacting in that situation.

 

You are right, Marilyn's facial reactions to Perce say so much yet she doesn't

speak. She took great interest in everybody and everything. That speaks to

her emotional honesty. She was not judgmental. All things new were exciting

to her. She really did just want to "live."

 

Also the scene with "Gido" was really something else. When he offers to help

her stop Gay but only if she will agree to be with him for a while. It's a remarkable

scene, she lashes out at him with an angry and scathing rebuke that sums him

up with such clarity of thought that I was taken off guard. She's not passive in

her feelings, she's had enough. I thought that was well played by her. I really

liked her in this film. It was a very different kind of role for her.

 

You are hitting bombs all over the park. Her ability to stand up to Gido says a lot

about her character. Again, if her emotions tell her to speak, she speaks. For

better or worse, her emotions guide her. The problem with such emotions is

that you end up being too trustworthy of people and this can get you hurt real

fast. I tend to believe this is where her hurt ultimately comes from. The users

will take full advantage of her and her honesty.

 

Well thanks to all of you for "twisting my arm." I really enjoyed the film and it

offered a lot to think about both during and best of all afterwards. Frank you were

right. It's very human and I love films like this.

 

I really did feel confident in backing up Laffite and Miss Whosits in the

"arm-twisting." Hey, anyone who can write in depth about Gloria

Grahame's "Ginny" in Crossfire is going to really eat up a film

like The Misfits.

 

I think the ball-paddle game has been covered very well already. I'll leave it alone.

 

I'm sure that I won't.

 

You know, sometimes when a person don't know what to do, the best thing

is to just stand still. Standing still in Richmond, VA

 

You even have a finishing line!

 

Did Gay win or lose the battle?

 

 

 

 

 

 

An unsure Roslyn quietly approaches Gay

 

 

An unsure Gay offers to take Roslyn "back." But where is "back"?

 

 

Just as Gay realizes, so does Gido.

 

 

Roslyn remains unsure about her standing with Gay. Does Gay know?

 

 

Family

 

 

Gay knows.

 

 

Gay thanks Roslyn for saving him from himself. He's ready to start his new life... with her.

 

 

Wild and free... but not alone.

 

 

One of my favorite scenes from The Misfits:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This says it all.

 

[MissGoddess]

I like when Roslyn say's to Perce, "Gay's not old." She really is like his Mamma.

 

Another wonderful posting on *The Misfits*, merci M. Grimes! I was in tears at the screencaps,

Gay is so moving in that scene. I've read that while doing the stunts Gable breathing in all that

alkali is what gave his voice that particular raspiness at the end. I thought it added greatly to

his performance and clearly, he's not acting the exhaustion. His wife Kathleen wrote she

had to spend hours medicating his scrapes and massaging his sore muscles after those scenes.

 

[MissGoddess]

Gay: It's... it's like roping a dream now. Yeah, I just got to find another way

to be alive, that's all. If there is one... anymore.

 

I think Gay's final sentence is his not knowing if Roslyn will wish to be with him

after what he did with the mustangs.

 

I never thought about it that way before. I always felt he referred to not being sure

if there was a place for a man like him in the world anymore. You know, because

he, like the others, is a "misfit" whereas once everyone used to live like he did in

that part of the country.

 

I like the title animation that was created, the floating puzzle pieces...it's a good

metaphor. A few connect to each other but they never make a whole picture. Those

few pieces don't fit to the whole but they "connect" to each other.

[FrankGrimes]

I never thought about it that way before. I always felt he referred to not being sure

if there was a place for a man like him in the world anymore. You know, because

he, like the others, is a "misfit" whereas once everyone used to live like he did in

that part of the country.

 

You are right. That's what it does mean.

 

I like the title animation that was created, the floating puzzle pieces...it's a good

metaphor. A few connect to each other but they never make a whole picture. Those

few pieces don't fit to the whole but they "connect" to each other.

 

For a blondle, you think pretty good.

[MissGoddess]

Thank for the showers of compliments Mr Grimes, you are just swelling my head!

Actually, what I should say is "you're just a mass of compliments".

 

By the way, you mentioned "Roslyn" probably being MMs most emotional performance. There

are others, but the movies themselves aren't in the same league as *The Misfits*. *Bus Stop* and

*Don't Bother To Knock* are her other two roles where she all over the place emotionally. I think

you'll love her "Cherie" in Bus Stop even though the movie's a bit annoying. Her accent breaks

me up but "she really tried I mean you can just see her trying" (to quote Isabelle).

 

Anyone else like MM's "Cherie" in Bus Stop? The critics generally reacted with astonishment,

saying they couldn't believe she could act, etc. It's a terrific play, one of those situations where

you have a bunch of different types trapped together only they are all trapped together with

DON MURRAY which is another kind of hell. It's okay, he's said mean things about Marilyn

in the past so he gets no respect here.

 

_Molo_ I think you might like her performance in Bus Stop, too.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Thank for the showers of compliments Mr Grimes, you are just swelling my head!

Actually, what I should say is "you're just a mass of compliments".

 

Did I even pay you a compliment?

 

By the way, you mentioned "Roslyn" probably being MMs most emotional performance. There

are others, but the movies themselves aren't in the same league as The Misfits. Bus Stop and

Don't Bother To Knock are her other two roles where she all over the place emotionally.

 

So have you issued me an "emotional" Marilyn challenge? Of Marilyn's films, Bus Stop, Don't Bother to Knock, and Niagara are the ones I wish to see most. They seem to be films that are more my speed than the films she is most known for.

 

I think you'll love her "Cherie" in Bus Stop even though the movie's a bit annoying. Her accent breaks me up but "she really tried I mean you can just see her trying" (to quote Isabelle).

 

I always enjoy it when you predict like this. You've been pretty good with your predictions, too.

[laffite]

*Anyone else like MM's "Cherie" in Bus Stop?*

 

Yes, I did. Very convincing. This was her first role back after her flight from Hollywood to New York and after her exposure to the Actor's Studio...and it really showed.

 

Have I I detected from The Goddess a certain antipathy to Mr Murray, here and elsewhere, ahem? Is it because of his performance in Bus Stop...or as I now gather, some personal remarks he said about Marilyn? Hoping you don't mind my asking? I thought he was pretty good in the movie.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=laffite wrote:}{quote}

> *Anyone else like MM's "Cherie" in Bus Stop?*

>

> Yes, I did. Very convincing. This was her first role back after her flight from Hollywood to New York and after her exposure to the Actor's Studio...and it really showed.

>

> Have I I detected from The Goddess a certain antipathy to Mr Murray, here and elsewhere, ahem? Is it because of his performance in Bus Stop...or as I now gather, some personal remarks he said about Marilyn? Hoping you don't mind my asking? I thought he was pretty good in the movie.

 

bon soir, lafitte!

 

Noooooo, I'm afraid I did not care M. Murray in Bus Stop...he drove me up le wall, to tell

la verite. the idea of Cherie being blundled up to Montana with that crazy galoot just

gave me the shivers! His remarks, which I read some time afterward, came as no surprise

to me.

[laffite]

*Noooooo, I'm afraid I did not care M. Murray in Bus Stop...he drove me up le wall, to tell*

*la verite. the idea of Cherie being blundled up to Montana with that crazy galoot just*

*gave me the shivers! His remarks, which I read some time afterward, came as no surprise*

*to me.*

 

Well, at least he could really slam down a quart of milk! Geez, Goddess, that's gotta be worth sumpin'

 

Just curious---and I don't mean to pick your brain---but can you think of an actor you would have liked to play that part? What's interesting is that the character has to be a little nauseating to begin with because that's part of his personality. Maybe it's Bo you don't like.

[MissGoddess]

Well, at least he could really slam down a quart of milk! Geez, Goddess, that's gotta be worth sumpin'

 

so can a baby elephant. I'll take the baby elephant.

 

 

Just curious---and I don't mean to pick your brain---but can you think of an actor you would have liked to play that part? What's interesting is that the character has to be a little nauseating to begin with because that's part of his personality. Maybe it's Bo you don't like.

 

If you pick my brain say "hi" for me to Slim Pickens.

 

I've thought about it, I acutally did some amateur theater and *Bus Stop* was one of my first

plays. I think as wrtiiten Beau can be as annoying as anything, but the essence of a person is

just that, it's who they are inside that's unchangeable no matter how awful they behave, it's

what Cherie responds to when he asks her to come on the bus. Murray doesn't project that

goodness inside I mean that sweetness. Not to me. He's probably a nice enough guy in real

life but he was also a self-centered actor from the Actor's Studio who was acting a part. I bet on

stage it worked well, because it's so broad and loud, but I'm not getting any genuine idea that he

cares about this girl in the critical last scenes. It's an actor's performance as far as I'm

concerned.

 

So who else? I'm trying to think of who was around at that time who was young enough

and could play country boy---James Dean? Was he still alive? Gosh, I'd have taken Earl

Holliman over him---heck I'd take TONY FRANCIOSA! Bronxie can tell you, that's

a strooooooong statement from me.

 

Hope some of that made sense? Like I said, "hi, Slim!"

 

I always forget to mention wonderful Eileen Heckart's performance as Cherie's friend at

the **** tonk. "Hoooooooooooneeeeeey...."

 

 

Message was edited by: MissGoddess

[ILoveRayMilland]

Just wanted to break up the serious discussions and post a few photos of the GORGEOUS Marilyn!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*And lastly this adorable photo of MM as a baby!*

 

 

 

Okay, back to the serious discussions! LOL!

[CelluloidKid]

I'm a huge fan of Miss. Monroe. What started my "obsession", was when I was a 11 and for Christmas my mom got me the book "_The Unabridged Marilyn: Her Life from A to Z_"!

From that point I was hooked.

First, last and always, Marilyn was uniquely beautiful, and tragically vulnerable.

 

 

Her Best Films:

 

The Asphalt Jungle

Gentlemen Prefer Blondes

How to Marry a Millionaire

Niagara

Monkey Business

Clash by Night

All About Eve

The Seven Year Itch

Bus Stop

The Misfits

Some Like It Hot

 

My 2 All Time Fav MM films are: "The Misfits" & "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes"

 

[laffite]

Uh, RayMilland, we're having a serious discussion here, do you mind?

 

Just kidding, ...

 

If Marilyn can't --butt into-- interrupt a serious discussion, no one can.

 

[laffite]

*If you pick my brain say "hi" for me to Slim Pickens. *

 

Sorry, no Slim Pickens in the brain of the Goddess. And I found no mere random harvest either but rather lilies of the field. What you said made a lot of sense. In fact, I think I recall something similar to what you speak. In that last tortured conversation prior to her getting on the bus with him, Cherie had a line that left a great opening for Beau to say something suggesting that maybe he loved her, or had a feeling etc.,, But what does he do? He throws his hands up in the air and then turns and walks back to his buddy (uncle, relative of some kind, friend?) who is sitting against the wall and says something like "What do I do now?," which all but rendered me agape. I thought the movie could have done something better at that particular moment. I don't like sappy and I didn't want sappy but i wanted something more that what I saw. I seem to remember a scene like that...or did I just make it up? Poor Cherie, I wonder how she turned out with ole Beau.

[MissGoddess]

Thanks so much, _ILRM_ and _CK_ for the gorgeous pictures! Keep 'em coming!

[CelluloidKid]

*Marilyn Monroe facts*

 

Number of men who could have been her father: 5

Amount she received for her first FOX movie: $75 / week

Amount she was paid for Gentlemen Prefer Blondes: $15,000

Number of films she made in her first 8 years in Hollywood: 24

Number of films she made in her last 8: 5

[molo14]

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Unforgivable. You would never find me doing the same.

 

No you just *Don't* do that sort of thing. I sometimes *Forget* to post in a timely manner *The* way others do. That can be a *Big* problem with me. Maybe it's the summer *Heat*. I'll try to do better. (no subliminal messages were used in this post. )

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Each of those characters is lost thanks to loss. How each deals with

their loss and their being lost is what brings out their differing personalities and

viewpoints on life.

 

Yes and I love when films explore this by developing such interesting characters.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Isabelle's way of dealing with her own loss

is sage cynicism. But don't let that fool you into believing she doesn't hurt. She's

using that as her shield. Just look at how she lights up when she sees her

x-husband, even with his current wife. They are to stay with Izzy for a week.

 

I also like when Isabelle speaks of "Andy Gump." Her wishes and desires come

to the surface, but her cynicism prevents her from acting. Not to mention, she's

still carrying a torch for her ex-husband.

 

Frank that is a wonderful take on Isabelle. I noticed her face lighting up in that scene too and I was thinking she was so happy to spend time with him even though he's with someone else. I think that must have been a hard trade off for her. It might have been interesting to go along with Isabelle for the week. That would have been an interesting film in itself. Great observations on Isabelle!

 

*FrankGrimes:wrote* Roslyn changes Gay. Gay wrangles the mustang to the ground, but he then

frees him. The mustang is he. When he cuts the mustang free, he's cutting himself free. Gay not only fought society all his life, he fought himself. He's now an older man, a tired man. He needs something else to live for than a credo. He needs a woman. I believe Gay is finally ready to live for others than just self.

 

Gido (to Gay): We don't need anybody in the world. You know that now, don't you?

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* What Gay knows now is that he NEEDS somebody in the world.

 

Gay: It's... it's like roping a dream now. Yeah, I just got to find another way

to be alive, that's all. If there is one... anymore.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* I think Gay's final sentence is his not knowing if Roslyn will wish to be with him after what he did with the mustangs.

 

Frank this is where you always impress me. Your comments on Gay are very insightful. I knew the mustang stood for something but I thought it might have been a broader metaphor. Your comparison of Gay and the mustang make perfect sense. I watched that scene again and it was even more powerful. Your right about Gay's not knowing if Roslyn would still want to be with him. I wasn't sure if she would either.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Gay was very good at kindly outmuscling Gido, and I believe Gido was very

aware of it. Gido knew he was losing out. This only added to his frustration. Not only could he not have Roslyn, he was losing Gay, too.

 

Another great observation. I noticed the way Gay was dealing with Gido and he was good at it. He was doing it "kindly." That's a great way to describe it.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* I haven't seen much Gable, but I'm guessing his final performance has to be one of his most emotional. I thought he was sensational.

 

Yes I think this is one of his most emotional if not the most. I really like Gable in his later films. He mellowed somewhat. He was a little sadder and more thoughtful, such things come with age I suppose, but the added complexity to his characters in some of his later films is a real highlight for me. You see this too a much smaller degree in films like *Any Number Can Play.*

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Of all the actors in the film, I feel the most sad with Monty. His fall was so drastic and it just pains me to see him as weak as he was. I do love his performance. I thought it was very touching, very real.

 

I agree. His performance hit a lot of emotional bells with me.

 

*Frank Grimes wrote:* Ritter was the best at playing wise-cracking dames but her "Isabelle" was different than the other characters I have seen her play. There is great pain beneath her wisecracks in The Misfits. She's hiding.

 

Again that is very well said. She is hiding. I love how you express your thoughts on her character.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Again, without knowing much about Marilyn, I felt as if "Roslyn" was a mirror image of Marilyn.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* I like that she was carrying some extra weight and she seemed

very comfortable with it.

 

*FrankGrimes wrote:* Marilyn's facial reactions to Perce say so much yet she doesn't

speak. She took great interest in everybody and everything. That speaks to her emotional honesty. She was not judgmental. All things new were exciting to her. She really did just want to

"live."

 

Interesting. I don't know much about her as a person either but this performance really seems to bring out such honest feelings in her. The idea of Roslyn being a "mirror image" of Marilyn seems to me, a very astute observation. I thought she really put a lot of herself on the line here.

 

I think you are dead on in your description of Roslyn's character, She's very honest and open but she's also very interested in life and the people around her.

 

I aways look forward to your comments and analysis of films I've watched. You have a gift for this sort of thing you know.

 

Message was edited by: molo14

[MissGoddess]

Not much here but for what it's worth, some of *John Huston's* words about Marilyn and making

*The Misfits* (from his autobiography, An Open Book):

 

"I knew Marilyn's reputation for being late on the set, so before we started shooting I had the

daily call changed from 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m., hoping this would make things easier for her. It

didn't. Clark Gable would drive out to work in his little sports car, rehearse his lines with his

stand-in, then open a book. He never uttered one word of complaint, no matter what time Marilyn

showed up. Arthur Miller said Marilyn was afraid that if she didn't get enough sleep she wouldn't

look her best the next day; this idea amounted to an obsession, so she was taking pills to go to

sleep and pills to wake up in the morning. I was very disturbed by her actions and appearance.

She seemed to be in a daze half the time. When she was herself, though, she could be

marvelously effective. She wasn't acting---I mean she was not pretending to an emotion. It was

the real thing. She would go deep down within herself and find it and bring it up into

consciousness. But maybe that's what all truly good acting consists of. It was profoundly sad to

see what was happening to her....

 

"I never felt Marilyn's much-publicized sexual attraction in the flesh, but on the screen it came

across forcefully. But there was much more to her than that. She was appreciated as an artist in

Europe long before her acceptance as anything but a sex symbol in the United States.

ean-Paul Sartre considered Marilyn Monroe the finest actress alive. He wanted her to play the

leading feamle role in Freud....

 

"Montgomery Clift and Marilyn were extraordinary together, particularly in a long scene---several

pages---behiind a saloon, against a hill of beer cans and junk automobiles. It was a love scene

that wasn't a love scene, and Arthur Miller at his best, too."