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Will *GWTW be the next classic to be banned from theaters & TV?


spence
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(*-denotes an *ACADEMY (AMPAS) AWARD winner)

As most know the more than legendary 1939 heavyweight classic *GONE WITH THE WIND (Selznick/M-G-M) was just on TCM again & it brought to mind that it already appears to the next one getting picked on by the PC police? ERROR: I wrote about this a couple of months back, but look it up for yourself  They are actually starting to attack 1962's superb TO KILL A MOCKINGBORD?

& of course is next on their menu as being rascist & certain places-(including a tremendous old time movie palace located down here in Tampa THE TAMPA THEATRE-(est:1926-)

 

& it's by no means the only place that outright insists it will never play there again.   It made more more then disgusted of course, whats left BURNING BOOKS,etc???

 

Films such as this (8)  time *Oscar sweeper & was also awarded 2 special non-competitive statuettes.  Are in a virtual time capsule & you can't squeeze current era p[olitics into the past & vice versa. i.e. reinventing history   I remember when I was a little lad of maybe 9 & my grandparents were excited-(around 1973 or so) & &GWTW was having it's then only once per year television airing.  & for the legions of fans of the *Selzinck-(l902-65) epic, you know what I mean in that it's first half of 3:42 minutes are stronger then the 2nd half.  Likely reason is *Gable's pal *Victor Fleming helming those scenes-(think even MGM director Sam Wood got in on the action too) & as most by this time know they shoot out of sequence. Something I did not know until being on the set summer of '84 when they filmed 1985's COCOON right next door to my then apts. *George Cukor-(l899-l983) started out on the mammoth project, but had more of the ladies view in it, which *THE KING: GABLE was none too happy about, so brought in *Victor & then he had a nervous breakdown & someone as intelligent as you TCM-ITES are, think even Mervyn LeRoy was brought in in the mean time. On top of which *THE KING & *VIVIEN loathed each other (TRIVIA: I;'ve seen tons of filming on it & they were getting fed-up so were almost settled on Paulette Goddard & maybe Erroll Flynn for the 2 roles. But the massive legions of *CLARK were said to ONLY want him instead. Recall Bob Hope's-(l903-2003) marvelous as usual comment "THANK YOU FOR THIS BENIFIT TO DAVOID.O SELZNICK" 

At any rate the rest is history, but in this era we can't show, talk, write or speak of actual history???

If someone doesn't want to see something or rad something, turn the page/channel  

 

(TRIVIA: Back then we pretty much only had NATIONAL BOARD OF REVIEW AWARDS-(were the D.W., Griffith-(l874-l948) but we all know why they dropped that full title)

& the still pivotal to us *Oscar oddsmakers NEW YORK FILM CRITICS AWARDS-(NYFCC)-(est: 1935-)

& NY had it quite different then HOLLYWQOOD for HOLLYWOODS by far greatest year of 1939>

Best Film: Wuthering Heights (Goldwyn/UA)

Actor: James Stewart, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" 

Actress: *Vivien Leigh in *GWTW"

Supporting Actor and Actress:  NYFCC didn't start honoring supporting roles until awhile later

Best Director: John Ford for "Stagecoach"

 

VS. The *OSCARS>(an actual nickname that did not really start until '35)

Best Picture: 

*GONE WITH THE WIND"

Best Actor: *Robert Donat in "Goodbye, Mr. Chips"

Best Actress: *Vivien Leigh in "Gone With the Wind"

S. Actor: Thomas Mitchell, "Stagecoach"

S. Actress: *Hattie McDaniel, *GWTW"

& Best Director: *Victor Fleming for *"GWTW"

 

VS. My personal own "Alternate *Oscar Choices for '39>

Favorite Movie: "The wizard of 0z" (Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer)

Actor: *Robert Donat-(barely of *Jimmy Stewart?)

Actress: *Leigh

S. Actor: Brian Donlevy,. "Beau Geste"

S. Actress: Gladys George, "The Roaring Twenties"

& Direction: *Fleming

 

THANK YOU

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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THANK YOU FOR LOCATING IT & FAST TOO BUDDIES!

I wrote about cinema all over the net-(since 2000-) prior to that like most I had to rely on files, books, magazines,etc  Which I still do first & foremost

 

 

THANK YOU AGAIN & WHILE I HOPE TO STILL HAVE YOUR EAR, I KNOW I'S NOW OLD HAT COMING FROM ME BUT WE DESERVE AN ALL-TIME FAVORITE'S POLL/SUIRVEYT, like about 98% of any other film websites. Heck, they had even more prior to trhe net.

 

Think I listed the others already that have done so & on other sites they keep asking WHY hasn't TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES-(1994-) by this late date conducted it;'s own in house fans, readers poll???

 

I can only answer as I STILL HAVE NO IDEA AS TO WHY YET?  PLUS, YOU FOLKS ARE ALMOSTV AT THE #25th ANNIVERSARY ON TOP OF IT ALL

 

I KNOW MANY OF YOU RECALL A MARVEKLOUS #15th ANNIVERSARY POLL-(but doin;t think us fans were involved in it?) & I'm positiove Mr.Osborne was involved.

 

IT WAS OF THE TOP #15 MOST INFLUENTIAL MOTIPON PICTURES IN HISTORY,. OBVIOUSLY DUE TO TFCM TURNING #15-(I still have that lists & in a few places, had it not only copied but passed reslts around to most other websites)

 

FOR ANYONE INTERESTED I'LL LOCATE THAT ALL-TIME TOP FIFTYEEN & POST & OR JUST WROTE ME VIA E MAIL WITH THEM ALL-(P.S. Matter of fact one of those copies is inside OSBO';S *OSCAR BIBLE "85 Y$EARS OF THE *OSCAR"

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 & just for kicks and fun of it I bet the TCM fans results would likely be>

 

All-Time Favorite Film: *GONE WITH THE WIND"

All-Time Favorite actor: CARY GRANT

All-Time Favorite Actress:-(close-one here) *KATHARINE HEPBURN OR *BETTE DAVIS

As for behind the cameras  i.e. Directors:  HITCHCOCK I easily bet would take it within these forums

 

I was once a card-carrying AFI-(American Film Institute)(EST: 1967-) though at a lower-level & was not eligible to cast my votes in those heavyweight 100 YEARS SURVEY/POLLS & TV SPECIALS   This was from 1992 for just a few yrs, but did great stuff.

 

ANY TAKERS & WHO ARE YOURS-(though in such a epic undertaking I would hope most would be required to include their top 5-10)???

 

THANKS AGAIN

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& just hade to air my own candidates-(AGAIN, mostly personal favs vs. maybe actual best of all-time & I'll for now only list one person category-(SEE ABOVE)

 

My All-Time Favorite Movie: *THE GODFATHER (l90l-90) TRILOGY-(availkable on dvd,etc only & was never a theatrical release)

CLOSE RUNNER-UP: CITIZEN KANE-(actual best I've yet to be able to see)

Actor: *Spencer Tracy

Actress: Natalie Wood-(again just a very personal pick, I'm well aware NAT was no Garbo or *Kate)

Director: *John Ford

& my vote as the single greatest new release I went to/reviewed in 37yrs-(since 1982-) *Schindler's List

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I really wanted to see the Donald Bogle intro and outro with this particular viewing. I did watch the intro but just couldn't stay up four hours to watch the outro. I couldn't help but notice Ben M. made the point twice in just a few minutes that Bogle had picked the night's lineup, including GWTW, as if wanting to get out in front of the "why is TCM showing this movie?" question. "Hey, everybody, an African-American scholar actually wants you to watch this movie, so it's okay!" he seemed to be saying, and he made a point of saying Bogle did not seem to be in favor of the idea of never showing the movie again. And Bogle made a point that even in his day, Selznick was highly self-conscious of not wanting a Birth of a Nation on his hands, which I suspect is a film TCM will never show again. I was fascinated to learn the lengths Selznick actually went to reach out to the African-American community for feedback during production. Clearly, he thought at the time he was being highly sensitive in his portrayal of black characters, and I suppose he was given what else you can see in some contemporary films, though it appears less sensitive with the passage of 80 years.

Although TCM began its existence by showing GWTW two times back to back (oh my God!), they have been reasonably restrained over the past quarter century in airing it. It's never been on as frequently as say North by Northwest or Adventures of Robin Hood. I suspect its airings will be even less frequent in the future, as the network probably feels it needs to be shown from now on as part of some larger theme or context. It's only been on twice this year that I'm aware of, the first movie shown as part of Leslie Howard's SOTM tribute and now last night with the Slavery in Film theme. Maybe it was on during 31 Days as well, which would give it three airings tops in 2018.

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7 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

I really wanted to see the Donald Bogle intro and outro with this particular viewing. I did watch the intro but just couldn't stay up four hours to watch the outro. I couldn't help but notice Ben M. made the point twice in just a few minutes that Bogle had picked the night's lineup, including GWTW, as if wanting to get out in front of the "why is TCM showing this movie?" question. "Hey, everybody, an African-American scholar actually wants you to watch this movie, so it's okay!" he seemed to be saying, and he made a point of saying Bogle did not seem to be in favor of the idea of never showing the movie again. And Bogle made a point that even in his day, Selznick was highly self-conscious of not wanting a Birth of a Nation on his hands, which I suspect is a film TCM will never show again. I was fascinated to learn the lengths Selznick actually went to reach out to the African-American community for feedback during production. Clearly, he thought at the time he was being highly sensitive in his portrayal of black characters, and I suppose he was given what else you can see in some contemporary films, though it appears less sensitive with the passage of 80 years.

Although TCM began its existence by showing GWTW two times back to back (oh my God!), they have been reasonably restrained over the past quarter century in airing it. It's never been on as frequently as say North by Northwest or Adventures of Robin Hood. I suspect its airings will be even less frequent in the future, as the network probably feels it needs to be shown from now on as part of some larger theme or context. It's only been on twice this year that I'm aware of, the first movie shown as part of Leslie Howard's SOTM tribute and now last night with the Slavery in Film theme. Maybe it was on during 31 Days as well, which would give it three airings tops in 2018.

If you've ever read Gone With the Wind you know the N word is quite prolific in it.

Selznick always made a big deal about the authenticity of his Cinema in terms of the original literary work.

He had to go to the code police and explain to them why Clark Gable's last speech should not be censored because of the word "damn".

However, it was Hattie McDaniel who went to him to discuss her abhorrence of the N-word and how she did not want it in the script of Gone With the Wind, even though it was prolific in the book.

 This actress was under contract to him and he took her advice seriously.

Another producer,  who was on a lower scale and had lesser clout in Hollywood, probably would not have listened to her.

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9 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

...

He had to go to the code police and explain to them why Clark Gable's last speech should not be censored because of the word "damn".

...

And Selznick was not given permission.  He left it in anyway and the studio was fined $5,000.

 

https://newtownbee.com/gone-with-the-wind-producer-david-o-selznick-paid-a-fine-of-5000-for-violating-the-motion-picture-production-code-banning-the-use-of-profanities-when-he-refused-to-rewrite-the-line-frankly/

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It appears some people here really believe that TCM is influenced by the so called PC police and this impacts what films TCM shows or not.     Just like everyone else here I have no insider info if TCM's management is influenced or NOT,   but my guess is that they are NOT.

E.g.  Seewhite made this comment "Birth of a Nation,,, which I suspect is a film TCM will never show again. 

I just wonder what makes people suspect that TCM would never show a film like Birth of a Nation, ever again.

As it relates to the PC police;   Since the dawn of mankind there have always been PC police that try to dictate what is shown\played\presented,  or not for every art-form.    With films in America,  it was the Production Code and the targeted context of a sexual or violence nature.   

At least today the government is less involved as it relates to content control.    Instead PC police watchdogs lobby private companies.    Hopefully most private companies ignore them but if they don't that is their choice.   I.e. the government isn't forcing them to NOT show a film (or some specific content);  They are deciding NOT to.

Note that Zuckerberg took a hit this week for his stance regarding freedom to be a Holocaust denier on Facebook.       

Also, the ACLU issued a statement saying that they will no longer defend free speech that is related to white supremacy.   I withdrew my membership in the ACLU and will no longer donate to the organization.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

It appears some people here really believe that TCM is influenced by the so called PC police and this impacts what films TCM shows or not.     Just like everyone else here I have no insider info if TCM's management is influenced or NOT,   but my guess is that they are NOT.

E.g.  Seewhite made this comment "Birth of a Nation,,, which I suspect is a film TCM will never show again. 

I just wonder what makes people suspect that TCM would never show a film like Birth of a Nation, ever again.

As it relates to the PC police;   Since the dawn of mankind there have always been PC police that try to dictate what is shown\played\presented,  or not for every art-form.    With films in America,  it was the Production Code and the targeted context of a sexual or violence nature.   

At least today the government is less involved as it relates to content control.    Instead PC police watchdogs lobby private companies.    Hopefully most private companies ignore them but if they don't that is their choice.   I.e. the government isn't forcing them to NOT show a film (or some specific content);  They are deciding NOT to.

Note that Zuckerberg took a hit this week for his stance regarding freedom to be a Holocaust denier on Facebook.       

Also, the ACLU issued a statement saying that they will no longer defend free speech that is related to white supremacy.   I withdrew my membership in the ACLU and will no longer donate to the organization.

 

 

Just a feeling I have about Birth of a Nation, James. Of course, I could be wrong and actually hope I am. It's been five years since they last showed it, and as I recall, the last time they did show it, it was framed by a panel discussion about the differences between the way the film was viewed and then and viewed now. I think if they do ever show it again, it would be presented in a similar manner.

You mentioned in a previous post that there has been no PC outcry on these message boards that there is any film TCM should not show; in fact, quite the opposite. People around here only seem to get angry when they think Ben M. is being too PC in the things he says when he introduces films. And I agree with all that. I do think, however, that TCM suits might want to be out in front of the potentiality of PC outrage over something, which is why I found it interesting that Ben M. last night let us know twice in the space of five minutes that an African-American intellectual had actually asked TCM to show the film this time around.

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43 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

Just a feeling I have about Birth of a Nation, James. Of course, I could be wrong and actually hope I am. It's been five years since they last showed it, and as I recall, the last time they did show it, it was framed by a panel discussion about the differences between the way the film was viewed and then and viewed now. I think if they do ever show it again, it would be presented in a similar manner.

You mentioned in a previous post that there has been no PC outcry on these message boards that there is any film TCM should not show; in fact, quite the opposite. People around here only seem to get angry when they think Ben M. is being too PC in the things he says when he introduces films. And I agree with all that. I do think, however, that TCM suits might want to be out in front of the potentiality of PC outrage over something, which is why I found it interesting that Ben M. last night let us know twice in the space of five minutes that an African-American intellectual had actually asked TCM to show the film this time around.

TCM does put films in a historical context as a way to explain why certain films are,  as-they-are,  and I can see that being done for PC type reasons (as you say to be out in front of potential PC outrage),   but that is a far cry from not showing a film at all.   

I hope I'm not full of wishful thinking as it relates to TCM not showing a film due to PC outrage.    

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3 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

well, tcm has shown at least once both a colorized The Thing from Another World and King Kong BUT STOPPED when colorizing fell into ill repute with the thought police black & white purists. 

:D

Sorry, but don't get your meaning here?

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4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

TCM does put films in a historical context as a way to explain why certain films are,  as-they-are,  and I can see that being done for PC type reasons (as you say to be out in front of potential PC outrage),   but that is a far cry from not showing a film at all.   

I hope I'm not full of wishful thinking as it relates to TCM not showing a film due to PC outrage.    

When I went to the often mentioned & amazingly decorated-TAMPA THEATRE (it's life stepping back into the 1920's The very, very elderly gent that playing THE MIGHTY WURLITZER-(was kinda' a local legend)  before the show & then it just lowered him under the stage, welp, he's since gone but his daughter carries on the tradition) & even my mum told me when she & a pal o;mine went to GRAUMAN'S CHINESE THEATRE-(EST: 1926 or 27) on H. Blvd  that the TAMPA THEATRE had it beat on the inside!

 

Point being I went (5) times to this palace & also when they shows 1967's GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER & beforethe movie the lady announced there would be a discussion after it was over, welp, there sure was & I wanted togo & join-in, thinking it would be about the film & such, NOPE, it was only a huge PC leftists talk & about how racist *TRACY's (Matt Drayton) character was???

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10 hours ago, spence said:

Point being I went (5) times to this palace & also when they shows 1967's GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER & beforethe movie the lady announced there would be a discussion after it was over, welp, there sure was & I wanted togo & join-in, thinking it would be about the film & such, NOPE, it was only a huge PC leftists talk & about how racist *TRACY's (Matt Drayton) character was???

Point being that just like you people are entitled to their opinion and holding a forum to discuss their opinion.   No one was forced to join in this forum.    So these PC leftist were just being like you;   discussing their opinion,  like you do at this forum.    No harm \ no foul.   AND it is you being PC NOW by complaining about it!!!!! 

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17 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

 

As it relates to the PC police;   Since the dawn of mankind there have always been PC police that try to dictate what is shown\played\presented,  or not for every art-form.   

 

 

You know, you're right. I distinctly remember the Cro-Magnons getting upset over how cavemen were portrayed in One Million B.C. 

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1 minute ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Of course they were upset;  Victor Mature had the biggest boobs in the entire cast.   

Which reminds me of a Groucho quote, which I am paraphrasing. When asked if he was going to see a particular movie starring Victor Mature (maybe it was The Robe), Groucho remarked that he was not interested in seeing a film in which the male star had bigger t*ts than Marilyn Monroe.

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