Western Movie Rambles

[rohanaka]

I like the way Wayne says "Interesting." It is so dismissive

 

He did stuff like that all throughout the movie... he never argues to make his case.... he just makes these little one liner comments... and moves on.

[HollywoodGolightly]

I think Wayne's character figures sometimes it's best not to try to make one's case too abruptly.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

> I like the way Wayne says "Interesting." It is so dismissive

>

> He did stuff like that all throughout the movie... he never argues to make his case.... he just makes these little one liner comments... and moves on.

 

I like that. You're right, I never noticed but he doesn't argue with anyone. Not

Mrs Rowe, her son or her husband or the Comanche. But everyone tries to provoke

him, ha!

[rohanaka]

I just thought of ONE time where he DOES argue to make his point... (sigh).

 

 

PS... April... in answer to your earlier question:

 

Sooooo....does anyone else agree with Mrs Lowe

 

ABSOLUTELY!!! :-)

 

 

SPOILER ALERT (I know... already???) ha.

 

HA.... I just thought of something... THIS is the sort of exchange between the lead characters that some of you Shane/Marion fans were wishing for... ha. (I was one of the holdouts... I wanted her to stick w/ Joe..ha) But I can see similarities... THIS could be the movie that satisfies all you "I wish she'd have gone w/ SHANE" kinda folks... ha.

 

The difference for me was the two husbands.....

 

Message was edited by: rohanaka

[movieman1957]

Hondo tells everyone to "do what you want to do" so it tends to cut down on the arguments.

 

Kathy:

 

That dialogue would not have happened in "Shane" because Joe was there. "Hondo" goes to great lengths to establish, within boundaries, that she has been abandoned.

 

I wouldn't go so far to say he is arguing but he certainly is proving a point. I love the line "You smell all over like a woman." He almost could have done without the bath line because I would think them one in the same. Maybe I am wrong but I think it is a romantic line on top of a romantic scene.

 

Message was edited by: movieman1957 because I had another thought. Wow.

[JackFavell]

I thought that was the most amazing scene! Whew! Thanks for posting it....

[HollywoodGolightly]

I would definitely agree with that - I don't see him so much "arguing" as just trying to get a point across - something that he does, rather effectively. It's a great scene, to be sure.

[rohanaka]

Hi there, Mr. Movieman...

 

More "Spoilage"...

 

Hondo" goes to great lengths to establish, within boundaries, that she has been abandoned.

 

I totally agree... at one point he says something a bit forward to her (or maybe it was when he kisses her) and she responds back to him with something like..."I am a married woman" and he comes back w/ a comment like... "I know..." or "I thought about that..." ( I can't remember exactly and I am too lazy to look up my screencap...ha) ANYWAY... I think he sees right through her... and more or less figures out that her husband is a BIG disappointment... (And bringing it back to "Shane"... that Mr Lowe was certainly NO "Joe") She owns up to it all after he dies... but of course she can't while she is still married to the man.

 

Maybe I am wrong but I think it is a romantic line on top of a romantic scene.

 

You are SO not wrong... so VERY MUCH not wrong. :-) This has to be one of the Duke's more "magnetic" characters.... at least in my mind, anyway. I've seen him in romantic lead roles many times... but this character would have to be near the top in terms of that sort of thing.

 

But having said all that, I did not get a feel for them being willing to give in to that relationship until it was CLEAR that she was free to do so. For all their attraction, I think they both would have stopped before it went TOO far. (After he left, he did not have any intent of coming back there to stay the way he did.) But then... when she IS finally free from her marriage.... oh well... (did I mention SIGH??) ha

 

PS... Jackie... I am with you... "WHEW"! :-)

[Bronxgirl48]

Hey, guys, can I quickly throw in my two cents about I SHOT JESSE JAMES? I'm not familiar with Sam Fuller's work at all. It seemed stylistic, pulpy-noirish to the point of parody, yet introspective and ironic, with an "interior" anti-hero who on the surface looked like he was running on auto-pilot. I loved John Ireland as the obsessive and conflicted Bob Ford. And there's Tom Tyler! (as Frank James) I liked all the "play" on the legend.

 

Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

[JackFavell]

Bronxie, it is ridiculous for me to answer your post, because I wasn't home for most of the movie, and then I fell asleep right after the Steel Helmet came on, but I think your review perfectly encapsulated the Sam Fuller style that I saw. I found it compelling to watch, and will be renting I SHOT JESSE JAMES thanks to your post. Ireland really held my attention too.

[MissGoddess]

Hi Bronxarita! I really liked Preston Foster in ISJJ---for the first time ever! Did you

see The BAron of Arizona? I really enjoyed it, too.

 

OK, does everyone like Geraldine Page in Hondo? Would anyone have

cast someone else? I'm okay with her, personally, but I had a friend watch

it with me once and she got upset that John Wayne got rooked and should

only have beautiful women like Lana Turner opposite him, lol. I love Lana but

I had disagree with her on that one---she's no one's idea of a rancher's wife, ha!

 

I thought it was kind of gutsy for Wayne to have Geraldine cast, she was an

unknown in Hollywood and nothing in her Broadway experience suggested

she could play a western ranchwoman, except she was a good actress and

not "glamorous" or starlet like.

[HollywoodGolightly]

I think Geraldine Page is one of the very best things about Hondo. Glad she would eventually win an Oscar, too. I think she deserved it (after 8 nominations).

 

[Bronxgirl48]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> Bronxie, it is ridiculous for me to answer your post, because I wasn't home for most of the movie, and then I fell asleep right after the Steel Helmet came on, but I think your review perfectly encapsulated the Sam Fuller style that I saw. I found it compelling to watch, and will be renting I SHOT JESSE JAMES thanks to your post. Ireland really held my attention too.

 

I was planning on following it up with THE BARON OF ARIZONA and THE STEEL HELMET, but I dozed off and missed those two. You mean I got Fuller's style right? Sometimes I surprise myself, lol. Thank you!

 

I'm really looking forward to your comments on I SHOT JESSE JAMES.

 

Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

[Bronxgirl48]

double post; wrong forum

 

Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

[movieman1957]

I think Page is a fine addition to the movie for lots of reasons. One, is that she does a fine job in her role. Was it worth an Oscar nomination? I'm not sure. Two, the west was not full of gorgeous women. In some ways she is a much more realistic presentation then Turner would have been.

 

I would imagine that a woman in her position would not have spent much time "making" herself up. Short of getting her hair up what else would she have had to do living where she is. I listened to a bit of the commentary on the disc and they mentioned that the line about proclaiming herself homely was put in after production started and was meant to make the audience identify with her. What better way to get 1953 female audiences to stay interested in a western.

[HollywoodGolightly]

I don't find Page as plain-looking as some others obviously do. I think she does, indeed, look much like an average woman might have looked in the Old West, and I do think there is beauty in that. I think there is definitely great beauty even in "average" looking women, even if it's not the conventional idea of what very "beautiful" women would look like.

 

More than anything else, Page conveys to me a certain kind of integrity that I feel is important to the character, and I don't think the movie would be as good with someone else who lacked that quality, even if more conventionally "beautiful".

[Bronxgirl48]

My only complaint about Preston Foster in ISJJ was that there wasn't enough of him! He's big and burly and protective in the "Bull" Stanley tradition, but with more "leading man" looks. I've always liked him -- another real MAN.

 

I think I saw BARON OF ARIZONA years ago -- if I remember correctly, Vincent Price was very good -- I was planning on seeing it again last night, but unfortunately dozed off, consarn it.

 

I saw HONDO but am not crazy about Geraldine in that part. I didn't think she and Duke had any chemistry, and I don't think the role suited her.

 

Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=Bronxgirl48 wrote:}{quote}

> My only complaint about Preston Foster in ISJJ was that there wasn't enough of him! He's big and burly and protective in the "Bull" Stanley tradition, but with more "leading man" looks. I've always liked him -- another real MAN.

>

 

He had beautiful eyes (Preston). I just noticed them last night. I did like him

in The Informer and he was always competent, I just never really noticed

him as I did in ISJJ. Maybe because Fuller gave him an interesting quality of mystery...

 

 

> I think I saw BARON OF ARIZONA years ago -- if I remember correctly, Vincent Price was very good -- I was planning on seeing it again last night, but unfortunately dozed off, consarn it.

>

 

I was astonished by where the story went near the end---I hadn't foreseen that and it

really lifted my opinionn of the whole thing. I guess endings do count!

 

> I saw HONDO but am not crazy about Geraldine in that part. I didn't think she and Duke had any chemistry, and I don't think the role suited her.

>

> Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

 

I can certainly see why you would feel that way. I probably like the character more

than Geraldine but she's okay. It's a different sort of part. You know who I'd really love

to have seen in this role is Olivia de Havilland because she played a similar character

so very well inThe Proud Rebel and it would have been fun seeing her paired off with

the Duke.

[MissGoddess]

I just LOVE this whatchamacallit that TCM is airing between movies, where John Millius (sp?)

talks about Stagecoach. I could listen to that guy talk about Ford for hours. It looks to

be from the Peter Bogdanovich documentary, but I don't remember him talking so at length

about Stagecoach, so maybe this is additional footage from the interview? Anyway,

I just had to comment on that somewhere. Back to rambling!

[JackFavell]

I got done with Hondo! Yay! I wil start off by saying that my thoughts are a bit scattered about this film.... I am just going to have to start writing my rather impressionistic thoughts.

 

Things I really liked about it:

 

1. The music. Hugo Friedhofer's brilliant score is the best thing about the movie, and there are a lot of good things going on here.

 

2. John Wayne. Gosh, he's so good here! He was just racking up the roles at this time, wasn't he? He is mysterious, tough (tougher than I've ever seen him), and poetic. Could anyone grab and kiss a woman better than he did?

 

3. The writing. Although the story is almost too short, and the characters come to a happy conclusion a little too easily, The first two speeches that Wayne has are just beautiful. First the one about knowing the scent of a person, and then the story of Hondo's Apache wife (Destaray? what was her name?). Later on, Page's speech about a woman not needing the truth, because her man was all the truth she would ever need was also very nice. They made the movie for me, along with Wayne's performance and the music.

 

4. The stunt team. I just want to list the people who did the stunts on this movie because they were some of the most exciting I have ever seen.

 

*Stunts*

Chuck Hayward .... stunt double: John Wayne (uncredited)

Fred Kennedy .... stunts (uncredited)

Fred Krone .... ....... stunts (uncredited)

Cliff Lyons .... stunts (uncredited)

Frank McGrath .... stunts (uncredited)

Chuck Roberson .... stunts (uncredited)

Bob Rose .... stunts (uncredited)

Bobby Somers .... stunts (uncredited)

Terry Wilson .... stunts (uncredited)

Jack N. Young .... stunts (uncredited)

 

I know from my reading lately that these men were among the very best stunt workers of the time period. Almost all of these men are mentioned over and over again as the best of the best. Many of them worked for John Ford as well. The two Chucks were known as Good Chuck (Hayward) and Bad Chuck (Roberson) due to their personal habits.

 

5. The cinematography by Robert Burks and Archie Stout. I liked the setting.... it was more flat and rocky than most westerns I have seen, and felt more real because of that to me.

 

John Farrow's direction was good and action packed. Sometimes it moved even a little too quickly for me to understand what was going on.

 

John Ford is listed as a second unit director but I have no idea what scenes he might have been responsible for.

 

Rudd Weatherwax is listed as the dog trainer.

 

I am not a fan of Geraldine Page.... she is a very nervy actress and usually that bothers me a lot when I watch her. She had none of the mannerisms in this movie that later would creep into her performances, so I didn't mind her too much here. But I don't know why she deserved an oscar nomination.... especially when Wayne is so very much better.....

 

I also would have liked Hondo to have a little more bonding with the indians, a little less with the soldiers, who seemed like they caused all the trouble in the first place. All during the beginning of the movie, they set him up to be so independent, not following white or Apache ways, I guess I was a little let down at the ending. When he came down rather solidly on the side of the white soldiers it didn't quite ring true to the character for me.

 

This was such a fifties western, in the best sense. It almost seemed to me to be a rebuttal to *Shane* . The opening scenes with the boy, who was quite good and natural, sort of led me to see it that way. Also, the emphasis on fighting, toughness, and self reliance all made me think it was an answer to the other movie, which celebrates childlike gentleness, honor, and thoughtfulness.

 

Ward Bond was fabulous here, and the final scenes in which he gets the wagons moving out of the circle just blew me away.... he was so physical, almost falling out of the wagon as he started it up.

 

All in all, it is one of the most realistic and yet romantic westerns I have ever seen. I loved the sensibility of the movie. It held my attention completely.

[JackFavell]

[JackFavell]

OK. I am totally embarrassed. I just went back, because I realized I had not read some of the posts since I hadn't seen the movie yet.... and you guys already brought up the Shane comparison. Oh, well.

[molo14]

Jackie,

 

I have been working on my write up tonight. I will post it shortly. I bring up some of the things you mentioned as well.

[rohanaka]

All in all, it is one of the most realistic and yet romantic westerns I have ever seen. I loved the sensibility of the movie. It held my attention completely.

 

Woo Hoo, Ms. Favell! I love how you are just giving over to the western world these days!! Ha. (I bet you are feeling like you are having a bit of an identity crisis sometimes though..ha.)

 

I love all your observations about Hondo too.

 

It is a fun film to be sure, and I do think this movie has a lot of similarity to Shane.. but also there is plenty that is different too. It is like they are almost opposite sides of the same coin in a way...

 

Both are stories about a "drifter" sort of gunman (though Hondo wasn't quite as "drifty"...ha) meeting up and staying on with a family who is working hard to keep the farm running in the midst of a lot of adversity.

 

Both stories feature little boys who come to idolize and follow after the main character... and they both have a possible love interest between the mother and the drifter/gunman.(though of course in THIS film it is more than a "possible" one) And again... the main difference that makes both stories play out in such completely opposite directions in that regard are the husbands.

 

All in all... Hondo is a really good story. I have to say in all honesty it COULD be better in some respects. All the little "packages" do tend to get neatly tied up at the end of it all without nearly as much conflict (emotionally) as you might expect. But I agree with you that the dialogue (especially in those 3 scenes you brought up) is handled really well.

 

I know some are having issues w/ Geraldine Page... (Miss G.... I LOVE the thought of Olivia de Havilland) but in all honesty... I think over all Page does a well enough job. I think she has SOME moments where she is stronger than others (there are a few times where she is not nearly as believable overall as I would like... sometimes she almost comes off rather "schoolgirl-ish) But in general, I think does alright.

 

But I think w/ out Wayne's strong performance... this film would not be anywhere CLOSE to being as good as it is. I think I already said this... but this is one of the most "magnetic" characters I have ever seen him play. There is just something about the way he carries himself, and his manner of speaking that makes him just sort of stand out in this role (even more than usual...ha)

 

And the music and scenery really do just sort of add some very nice texture to the whole film... they both serve to really draw you into the feel for the both the romance and adventure of the story.

 

(And PS.... I agree w/ you about Ward Bond... I would have LOVED to have seen just a few more moments w/ him on screen. I think he did a fine job in this one)

 

I can't in all honesty put Hondo at the absolute TOP of my favorite list... but there are plenty of elements in this film that make it very enjoyable and it is definietly among my more favorite Duke films... which is saying a LOT considering I never reallly saw it all the way through unitl sometime early last fall)

 

I am glad you got to see this one Miss Favell... you little westerner, you! :-)

 

PS: Woo HOO!! Mad Hat MOLO is in the house!! Yee Haw!! (Now WHERE has that SHIFTLESS Grey Guy been hiding???)

 

Message was edited by: rohanaka

[molo14]

*Hondo* appeals to me for a number of reasons. It's a good tight story. It's downright short for a John Wayne Western. It's visually appealing. If we must compare it to *Shane* (and I suppose we must) I really liked the sense of isolation. In *Shane* there is a sense of community among the farmers. They are trying to build a settlement and make their farms work. They are trying to build a life. In *Hondo* Angie Lowe (Page) speaks of living at her homestead her whole life. She speaks of being used to the loneliness of frontier life. Her husband having abandoned her, she is presented to us as very isolated and to Hondo (Wayne), if not in her own mind, she is very vulnerable. The homestead is her heritage and her home. She is in her proper place.

 

The opening scenes where she does her best to convince Hondo that she and Johnny are just waiting for her husband to return, and Hondo's playing along with it, pulled you in to her world and her perspective. I liked that. It was a very practical way for her to act.

 

*Angie Lowe:* I am fully aware that I am a homely woman, Mr. Lane.

*Hondo Lane:* I didn't mean that. I got a bad habit of tellin' the truth, but being pretty isn't much. I know a lot of pretty people I wouldn't trust with a busted nickle-plated watch. But some others, somethin' comes outa the inside of 'em and you know you can trust 'em. Destarti had that. And you've got it too.

 

In truth, like Hondo, Angie Lowe is caught between two worlds. She has history there. There is something touching in the way she continually mentions that the Apaches water their horses on her land. It nearly becomes a plea when she brings this up to Vittorio. It is her bond with them. Her own treaty. Her protection. When we learn more about her husband, we find that her understanding of her position in the struggles with the Apache is drawn from her own experience throughout her life with them. She has to rely on her own insights. I think this is something Hondo understands.

 

Geraldine Page has always given me fits. She can really chew up the screen sometimes. Here, in her debut, I think she gives a lot to the character of Angie Lowe. She is something different. The quiver in her voice, her manner, it works for me here. I don't sense that Angie Lowe is particularly restless but I do sense she is weary. She wants what is best for her son and if she can find some happiness as well, then that is all the better. She has lived a solitary and difficult life. She married who she could and she had to suffer for it. I feel she simply wants to find some peace in this world.

 

*Angie Lowe:* You're a strange man, Mr. Lane.

*Hondo Lane:* I don't know about that. Bye, Mrs. Lowe.

 

John Wayne's Hondo Lane is another great character in his lengthy credits. I loved the way he and Page interact. There is something about the way he can project so much feeling, almost an empathy for the plight of Mrs. Lowe, without having to really say anything about it. This is the greatness of Wayne and it is all here, in the swagger, the looks, the short and to the point dialogue, the subtle movements and glances.

 

His scenes with the boy, when he lets him learn the hard way about the dog, and when he throws the kid into the water the second he learns he can't swim, were nicely done. I had to laugh when Mrs. Lowe runs away after telling him that she herself cannot swim. Those are lessons and skills that have to be learned and Hondo knows the quickest way to learn them. It is a caring and yet very practical thing for him to do.

 

His relations and understanding of the Apaches were interesting. He seems to be an outsider with a great understanding of both sides. His lament for the ending of the Apache way of life seems to be made with an understanding that it does have to end. That's progress. We know he has had an Apache wife and has lived with them, but his knowledge of their ways seems to often come down to someone who has a true understanding of the enemy. The final scenes seem to underscore that.

 

I did like the time given to Vittorio and to showing the Apaches as a people with honor and customs of their own, as well as weaker ones among them. Given how short the movie is, they put a lot of Vittorio in it. I'm not sure if it was enough. When I watch the film again, I think I will concentrate more on this aspect.

 

The final battle scenes were great. Did Ford direct those? They were not only exciting but cleverly done. The dust flying, the wagons turning, the horsemanship, it was a great action sequence and very well done. You got a sense of being in the battle. When victory is assured, the end credits roll and we are left hopeful that Hondo and Angie Lowe will settle down together and find some happiness. He needs her. May Mrs. Lowe find her peace.

 

Message was edited by: molo14