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Western Movie Rambles


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I am beginning to believe that all "Westerns Rambles" lead to "The Searchers." Isn't this about the third time we've been here? And we still find things to talk about in this film.

 

Hey Chris! Well are you that surprised? Heehee! It's that and TMWSLV....Phew! Apparently we can't get enough of those two. I don't mind.... :D

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Hey Guys!

 

This really CUTE guy that goes to the same campus as me is in the library every week when i am and he sat right next to me and started talking to me, b/c he had been apparently watching me for weeks here and apparently is taking a film appreciation course and noticed i was on this site, so he started asking me questions about old movies! I thought it was toooo perfect!!...and weird at the same time. Heehee! He was interested a bit in westerns, but doesn't watch TV a lot, so i was happy to educate him....he was reading all of ya'lls posts about The Searchers and now wants to watch it! Way to go guys! I was telling him some more about it and a few other good westerns, and he is really hooked now! YAY!!....we struck up a conversation for a couple hours....he's way too adorable!....he thinks i smile and laugh a lot!...i hope that's agood thing! :D

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> {quote:title=butterscotchgreer wrote:}{quote}

> I am beginning to believe that all "Westerns Rambles" lead to "The Searchers." Isn't this about the third time we've been here? And we still find things to talk about in this film.

>

> Hey Chris! Well are you that surprised? Heehee! It's that and TMWSLV....Phew! Apparently we can't get enough of those two. I don't mind.... :D

 

 

TMWSLV is actually a very bad modern Western. The only reason some people think it is ?good? is because they try to Ethanize Tom Doniphon. But Tom is NOT Ethan. TMWSLV is NOT ?The Further Adventures of Ethan Edwards.?

 

:)

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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> TMWSLV is actually a very bad modern Western. The only reason some people think it is ?good? is because they try to Ethanize Tom Doniphon. But Tom is NOT Ethan. TMWSLV is NOT ?The Further Adventures of Ethan Edwards.?

>

> :)

 

I can't speak for others, obviously, but I always saw Doniphon and Edwards as two rather different characters, for lots of different reasons. I'll admit, however, that sometimes it's easy for me to forget what character I'm watching and in my mind I'm just watching another facet of John Wayne (at least that's what happens to me sometimes).

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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> I'm sorry I said all of that. I've been holding it in for days. It just exploded out of my fingers and into my keyboard.

 

It's OK, I think it's an honest opinion, and I think this thread would certainly benefit from different (and diverse) points of view. I like that you came by the Westerns forum, by the way, I don't see much of you around here. :)

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Little T.. sounds like you are making new friends. ha. (cute ones at THAT!) :-)

 

And PS.. you and Chris are both right. Sooner or later.. it doesn't matter what we are jabbering about... it all comes down to The Searchers and/or TMWSLV. (And I personally don't see that as a bad thing. Ha.) Two seperate movies... with completely different characters and themes... and yet somehow very often relevant in some way or another to a lot of the other films we discuss here on a regular basis. (As a Western/Duke/Ford fan... aint I the lucky one that no matter what genre I am jabbering about, sooner or later I can still end up talking about all three of my favorites too. ha) :-)

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Little T.. sounds like you are making new friends. ha. (cute ones at THAT!)

 

Heehee! He's way to gorgeous for me to even dream about.....he even has those dimples! But he's really friendly and sweet!!!.....That's a really big plus!

 

And PS.. you and Chris are both right. Sooner or later.. it doesn't matter what we are jabbering about... it all comes down to The Searchers and/or TMWSLV. (And I personally don't see that as a bad thing. Ha.) Two seperate movies... with completely different characters and themes... and yet somehow very often relevant in some way or another to a lot of the other films we discuss here on a regular basis. (As a Western/Duke/Ford fan... aint I the lucky one that no matter what genre I am jabbering about, sooner or later I can still end up talking about all three of my favorites too. ha)

 

Well you go right on ahead and chat endlessly about 'em, Kathy! I, personally don't mind reading and chatting about them with you! I find it very interesting that you can talk about pretty much anything in this world and the conversation ends up leaning towards those movies! It's kinda funny! But that just shows your passion for them! :D

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I find it very interesting that you can talk about pretty much anything in this world and the conversation ends up leaning towards those movies

 

Thank goodness it is those two films and not something else.. ha. Imagine if we had to say... "Sooner or later it all comes down to... TOP SECRET!!!". HA!! :P (Just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it??????) :-)

 

PS... friendly and sweet are always higher on the list for me than gorgeous and dimples.. ha. But its nice to have all of the above! :-)

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ha.. I just figured out.. your first line was from THAT movie wasn't it???? ha. Do you realize how LONG it has been.. It's been so long since it came out... I am not even sure I have even SEEN it. ha I always confuse it with Spys Like Us... ha. (I know.. I am hopeless) ha.

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Howdy, Quiet Gal -- Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! (WAS his name Klaus?? ha. I was just being a smart mouth!! ha)

 

You know more about him than everyone else!

 

And I think Ethan stuck with it for so long because of who she was and because of what had been done to his family. If Debbie had been just some OTHER kid... from some other family.. and if it had not been Martha and Aaron... and their family who were murdered, I don't think he'd have spent all those years out there like that. Oh sure... he wanted to get Scar... but it would not have been the same sort of search for him without the family connection.. and I don't think he'd have been so committed almost to the point of insanity had Debbie been somebody else.

 

I partially agree. At the outset, Ethan was all about getting Debbie back. But once he saw that she was "ruined" by the Comanche, he no longer cared about getting her back. His mission focus turned to Scar and Scar alone. It was Marty who never gave up on Debby. Marty is not only the one who rescues Debby, but I also think he rescues Ethan... in a way.

 

Ethan really believed he was doing right by Martha (AND by Aaron) .. and most importantly by Debbie too (whom he clearly loved... and yet in a way had come to hate) In his mind, death was the better alternative for her than being where she was. It was mixed up logic, but it was what he really believed.

 

Yes, I believe that. It's very similar to Hatfield (John Carradine) looking to mercy kill Lucy (Louise Platt) in Stagecoach. He rather kill her then let the Apache kill her. But Ethan and Hatfield end up being wrong.

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Helllooooooooo Mr. Grey...

 

You know more about him than everyone else!

 

Ha.. maybe he is my evil twin half cousin on my mother's side.. ha.

 

I partially agree. At the outset, Ethan was all about getting Debbie back.

 

You are right about that. I should have said it a little plainer. At the beginning.. she was just a tiny thing and he was trying to save her. And you are also right that as time goes by he is more about going after Scar... but I also think he wanted to find her too. (and not to save her then)

 

It was Marty who never gave up on Debby. Marty is not only the one who rescues Debby, but I also think he rescues Ethan... in a way.

 

All true. And I think Debbie rescues Ethan as well... or his love for her does. The minute he sees her... REALLY sees her.. oh golly.. that is still one of the most powerful film moments I can ever recall. I love that scene so much and it is THE moment for me in that film. "Let's go home..." OH me.. .where's the kleenex...

 

It's very similar to Hatfield (John Carradine) looking to mercy kill Lucy (Louise Platt) in Stagecoach. He rather kill her then let the Apache kill her. But Ethan and Hatfield end up being wrong.

 

That scene in Stagecoach always gets me. It sickens me to think that he was taking her life into his hands that way (with a newborn baby right there in the same stage coach with them) but I also see his motivation and he was trying to be the gentleman maybe that he always wished he had been. It was perhaps an "honorable" motivation... but not the right choice either... and even if it HAD been (which I say again it was not) it was WAY too premature... the stage was still moving and the had not gotten down to the "last man" yet. Anyway.. as I said.. that scene always gets me.. ha. Talk about FATE. A split second's difference and he'd have had a LOT to explain when the Cavalry guys showed up...

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You better watch it, Mel Torme!

 

See what I mean, Quiet Gal? Of all the people to mention Top Secret! to. Sweet T is on my side! The dark side! Muwuhahahahaha! Well, until her dimpled boyfriend kicks my fanny. :D

 

topsecret3.jpg

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Helllooooooooo Mr. Grey...

 

:P

 

Ha.. maybe he is my evil twin half cousin on my mother's side.. ha.

 

So your mom's side is the evil one, eh? Maybe I'm related. :P

 

but I also think he wanted to find her too. (and not to save her then)

 

I'm not so sure. Grey! Woohoo!

 

And I think Debbie rescues Ethan as well... or his love for her does. The minute he sees her... REALLY sees her.. oh golly.. that is still one of the most powerful film moments I can ever recall. I love that scene so much and it is THE moment for me in that film. "Let's go home..." OH me.. .where's the kleenex.

 

That actually gets me, too. Just don't tell anyone. And that scene wouldn't work unless we, the audience, were unsure of what Ethan would do. He tried to kill her himself but Marty stopped him. Then he said he didn't care about Debbie's fate, only Marty did. So here we are at the climax, wondering, will he give her a chance?

 

That scene in Stagecoach always gets me. It sickens me to think that he was taking her life into his hands that way (with a newborn baby right there in the same stage coach with them) but I also see his motivation and he was trying to be the gentleman maybe that he always wished he had been.

 

I just rewatched Stagecoach and I came away believing Hatfield was a sincere gentleman when it came to the "ladies." His covering up a girl with his jacket led me to think this.

 

stagecoach1-1.jpg

 

It was perhaps an "honorable" motivation... but not the right choice either... and even if it HAD been (which I say again it was not) it was WAY too premature... the stage was still moving and the had not gotten down to the "last man" yet. Anyway.. as I said.. that scene always gets me.. ha. Talk about FATE. A split second's difference and he'd have had a LOT to explain when the Cavalry guys showed up...

 

So was Ethan's decision to kill Debbie premature? Had he given her a real chance? Ethan and Hatfield were basically jumping to conclusions. Wrong conclusions.

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See what I mean, Quiet Gal? Of all the people to mention Top Secret! to. Sweet T is on my side! The dark side! Muwuhahahahaha! Well, until her dimpled boyfriend kicks my fanny.

 

Whoever said I was on your side? Actually, Kathy, I do really like that movie and have the same opinion of it as ole' Franken-noodle. Heehee!...but he's on the dark side, I'm still on the light goodie two shoe side! :D

 

....and whoever said i had a boyfriend?! Two and a half hours of talking to a cute guy does not constitute him as my boyfriend, silly! Sheesh!

 

I wish i could find my parents copy of Top Secret! so I could make some screencaps to "kick your fanny". Heehee!

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Hello there Mr. Hatfield (ha.. aren't YOU the one who always says you are a gentleman?? ha)

 

So your mom's side is the evil one, eh? Maybe I'm related

 

Ha.. yes.. you are the long lost nephew of my evil twin half cousin.. ha. (oh gee.. now I will have to say hello to you at the family reunion... )

 

I'm not so sure. Grey! Woohoo

 

Oh brother....( I mean.. oh long lost nephew)

 

That actually gets me, too. Just don't tell anyone.

 

Ha... your secret (you know.. the secret about how you get all emotional and broken up when Ethan hugs Debbie and takes her home... that secret.. yeah.) is safe with me!! ;-)

 

And that scene wouldn't work unless we, the audience, were unsure of what Ethan would do. He tried to kill her himself but Marty stopped him. Then he said he didn't care about Debbie's fate, only Marty did. So here we are at the climax, wondering, will he give her a chance?

 

Oh golly... that 's it in a nutshell... and now I am boo-hooing just sitting here thinking about it.

 

And PS.. don't ask APRIL to tell you how it ends in the BOOK. (But then again, You'd probably like it, Mr. I hate happy endings)

 

I just rewatched Stagecoach and I came away believing Hatfield was a sincere gentleman when it came to the "ladies." His covering up a girl with his jacket led me to think this.

 

I think you have him right.. especially when it came to "ladies"... women or girls he thought of as being respectable. Do you think he would have covered up someone like Dallas??? Now that is a harder one for me to answer.

 

So was Ethan's decision to kill Debbie premature? Had he given her a real chance? Ethan and Hatfield were basically jumping to conclusions. Wrong conclusions

 

No.. I was talking about Hatfield's choice being premature... Ethan had all the time in the world to study and thinnk over his choice.. but still they both ended up being mistaken... and fortunately fate stepped in and stopped both of them, if you think about it.

 

PS Little Scotchie... You talked with him for two and a half hours???? Have you two picked out a china pattern yet?? :D

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Howdy, Mrs. Dimples -- Whoever said I was on your side? Actually, Kathy, I do really like that movie and have the same opinion of it as ole' Franken-noodle. Heehee!...but he's on the dark side, I'm still on the light goodie two shoe side!

 

The dark side is the good side!

 

and whoever said i had a boyfriend?! Two and a half hours of talking to a cute guy does not constitute him as my boyfriend, silly! Sheesh!

 

I thought in Texas that meant you were engaged. :P

 

I wish i could find my parents copy of Top Secret! so I could make some screencaps to "kick your fanny". Heehee!

 

Too bad!

 

Howdy, Burnt Toastmaker -- Hello there Mr. Hatfield (ha.. aren't YOU the one who always says you are a gentleman?? ha)

 

Yes! I'm Layne Hatfield!

 

And PS.. don't ask APRIL to tell you how it ends in the BOOK. (But then again, You'd probably like it, Mr. I hate happy endings)

 

The book is better! Way better! Once again, Ford ruins a film. Dances? Weddings? Pride and Prejudice!

 

I think you have him right.. especially when it came to "ladies"... women or girls he thought of as being respectable. Do you think he would have covered up someone like Dallas??? Now that is a harder one for me to answer.

 

No, Miss G cannot drink out of my silver cup. :P:P And she wonders why she can't sleep.

 

stagecoach2-1.jpg

 

and fortunately fate stepped in and stopped both of them, if you think about it.

 

Movie fate! You're right, though.

 

PS Little Scotchie... You talked with him for two and a half hours???? Have you two picked out a china pattern yet??

 

That killed me! All he needs to know is she's a peach... with horrific taste in classic movies.

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