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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

>The only "Fran" around here is FRANkGrimes!!! :D

 

Ha!

 

Naw. I'm a Fran, and I know it. I'm just too chicken to do any of the things she did. But the dissatisfaction with the good things I have... that's all me. I don't like it, but it fits. :)

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How do, Fordy Guns -- All right, I finally watched The Prisoner of Shark Island. Now I understand your comparison. :) The film is definitely Ford's "The Wrong Man." Although, Ford combines the "staying" with the "fleeing" of the "wrong man." Ironically, it's actually the most tense of all Ford films I have seen. I was actually on edge. I found it to be that nerve-wracking and... exciting. It's the anti-The Wrong Man with that.

 

Interestingly, Ford makes a case for a "wrong man" but also puts history's viewpoint on trial within the framework of the movie. We can view the events depicted in The Prisoner of Shark Island in a detached fashion now and wonder how such a scenario could take place, but who is to say how history will view certain tribunals taking place today? In Hitch's version, it's scarier because the tragic events unfold in the cold, calm reality of an metropolitan justice system undisturbed by any state of emergency. You can be convicted by a mercilessly blind system that follows only one line of interpreting the facts.

 

I agree, it is scarier in Hitch's version because of the calmness and "reason" behind the conviction. And, you are right, both are very subjective. Even the "by the book" detectives in The Wrong Man are very subjective in how they have come to believe Manny (Henry Fonda) is guilty. That was an excellent point, by you. It's also scarier in The Wrong Man because you expect the legal system not to be blind and for it to be fair. When it's not, it becomes a frightening and real nightmare.

 

The Prisoner of Shark Island reminded me of The Ox-Bow Incident... minus a minority dissent. It's a very good film.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> How do, Fordy Guns -- All right, I finally watched The Prisoner of Shark Island. Now I understand your comparison. :) The film is definitely Ford's "The Wrong Man." Although, Ford combines the "staying" with the "fleeing" of the "wrong man." Ironically, it's actually the most tense of all Ford films I have seen. I was actually on edge. I found it to be that nerve-wracking and... exciting. It's the anti-The Wrong Man with that.

>

 

Wow! You found an "exciting" Ford film. Brilliant! It is very dynamic and has quite a few tense moments. I mean, just the whole predicament this man is in, the way it's filmed, there's no equivocating from Ford that he chose to show it as a travesty of justice. But I do like that the beginning, how he set up the initial tragedy of Lincoln's assasination, the way that you can see this going to be a really subjective tale because, of course, Lincoln did not in fact die in the theater as depicted. He makes the death resonate and so the consequences were...national hysteria and basically a whole country turned to a lynch mob, but because they believe the Union to be threatened by anarchy. Justice, no longer blindfolded but "Blinded" by tragedy.

 

>

> I agree, it is scarier in Hitch's version because of the calmness and "reason" behind the conviction. And, you are right, both are very subjective. Even the "by the book" detectives in The Wrong Man are very subjective in how they have come to believe Manny (Henry Fonda) is guilty. That was an excellent point, by you. It's also scarier in The Wrong Man because you expect the legal system not to be blind and for it to be fair. When it's not, it becomes a frightening and real nightmare.

>

 

I feel like I am Manny whenever I watch The Wrong Man, because it's filmed in such a way that you are walking in his shoes every step. You even stratt to feel guilty for your own actions because you are seeing how sinister they look in the eyes of the law! Like when they asked Manny if he played the horses! I felt guilty! And the guilty look in Fonda's eyes, I could feel his realization that no matter what he says it will make him look bad.

 

> The Prisoner of Shark Island reminded me of The Ox-Bow Incident... minus a minority dissent. It's a very good film.

 

I'm so glad you liked it. Though lots of things are fudged, most of the key events apparently really took place (the insurrection, the illness, the refusal of people to send aid and Mudd's role in all of it). I think the character of the warden Harry Carey plays may have been invented and possibly that of the slave who helps Mudd.

 

And can you explain how The Wrong Man "fascinates" and "bores" you at the same time??? If someting bores me, I want to switch the channel, I can't stay with it and may end up disliking it.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Mar 5, 2010 12:01 PM

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Howdy, Fordy Guns -- Wow! You found an "exciting" Ford film. Brilliant!

 

I was very surprised by this, too. I really wasn't expecting it.

 

THE SPOILED PRISONER OF SHARK ISLAND

 

It is very dynamic and has quite a few tense moments. I mean, just the whole predicament this man is in, the way it's filmed, there's no equivocating from Ford that he chose to show it as a travesty of justice.

 

I was on edge with the hanging, the escape, and the capture. Ford usually has one big tense moment in the films I have seen of his, but this one grabbed me a few times. This caught me off guard. What a wonderful surprise.

 

But I do like that the beginning, how he set up the initial tragedy of Lincoln's assasination, the way that you can see this going to be a really subjective tale because, of course, Lincoln did not in fact die in the theater as depicted. He makes the death resonate and so the consequences were...national hysteria and basically a whole country turned to a lynch mob, but because they believe the Union to be threatened by anarchy. Justice, no longer blindfolded but "Blinded" by tragedy.

 

That was wonderfully said. The Lincoln assassination scene had me nervous even though I knew what was coming. It's how it was presented that grabbed me. It was very Hitchcockian.

 

I feel like I am Manny whenever I watch The Wrong Man, because it's filmed in such a way that you are walking in his shoes every step. You even stratt to feel guilty for your own actions because you are seeing how sinister they look in the eyes of the law! Like when they asked Manny if he played the horses! I felt guilty! And the guilty look in Fonda's eyes, I could feel his realization that no matter what he says it will make him look bad.

 

That's brilliant! I'm sure Hitchcock was intending for us, the audience, to actually be "Manny." So what you feel is right on target.

 

I'm so glad you liked it. Though lots of things are fudged, most of the key events apparently really took place (the insurrection, the illness, the refusal of people to send aid and Mudd's role in all of it).

 

So the yellow fever and Mudd's role in that are also based on the factual? Wow! I'm impressed. I absolutely loved the characterization of Dr. Samuel Mudd. Warner Baxter's peformance was fantastic. Mudd is now my third favorite Ford character, behind Mary Kate and Doniphon.

 

I think the character of the warden Harry Carey plays may have been invented and possibly that of the slave who helps Mudd.

 

I liked the addition of Buck (Ernest Whitman). And Harry was very good, too. John Carradine has some really good moments and a couple weak ones.

 

And can you explain how The Wrong Man "fascinates" and "bores" you at the same time??? If someting bores me, I want to switch the channel, I can't stay with it and may end up disliking it.

 

I'm fascinated by the entire process of convicting Manny but the presentation is dry, which bores me.

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Hello, Mr Mudd :P

 

> I was very surprised by this, too. I really wasn't expecting it.

>

 

I'm still amazed you really liked it.

 

> THE SPOILED PRISONER OF SHARK ISLAND

>

> I was on edge with the hanging, the escape, and the capture. Ford usually has one big tense moment in the films I have seen of his, but this one grabbed me a few times. This caught me off guard. What a wonderful surprise.

>

 

It's very tightly edited, too, wherein I sense Zanuck's hand. It really moves. THe most harrowing scene for me may just be the execution (hanging) in the beginning.

 

> That was wonderfully said. The Lincoln assassination scene had me nervous even though I knew what was coming. It's how it was presented that grabbed me. It was very Hitchcockian.

>

 

Ooh, how so?

 

>

> That's brilliant! I'm sure Hitchcock was intending for us, the audience, to actually be "Manny." So what you feel is right on target.

>

 

Now that you say that, I want to see it again to pay attention to how Manny is specifically shot and framed. I never analyzed the movie, but if you say what I feel is where Hitch intends to take us, I'd be fascinated to see if I can figure out how he does it. Why do other movies, like Call Northside 777, don't grab me as emotionally.

 

> So the yellow fever and Mudd's role in that are also based on the factual? Wow! I'm impressed. I absolutely loved the characterization of Dr. Samuel Mudd. Warner Baxter's peformance was fantastic. Mudd is now my third favorite Ford character, behind Mary Kate and Doniphon.

>

 

According the Scott Eyman commentary I've listened to. There is another commentary by a historian on the Ford at Fox version which I haven't listened to yet. I expect that one goes into greater detail about the history. I did recently watch a "documentary" on the History channel about Booth, and the basic outline of Mudd's initial involvement is roughly the same.

 

Mudd's efforts to save the people from the fever are what helped get his case reviewed.

 

It's lovely to see old Warner getting some appreciation. I think he works well in the role, partly because his face is good at looking tired and anguished. He just looks like he's going through heck and is at the end of his rope. He is also good at showing patience and skill, so playing a doctor is a nice fit.

 

vlcsnap-00066.jpg

 

vlcsnap-00067.jpg

 

I tend to sometimes unfairly contrast Baxter with Ronald Colman, because they do look similar. I also like comparing the two "doctors" they played for Ford, Mudd and Arrowsmith. As you've seen by now, the doctor is a MAJOR character profession in Ford's world, second only to the professional soldier.

 

> I liked the addition of Buck (Ernest Whitman). And Harry was very good, too. John Carradine has some really good moments and a couple weak ones.

>

 

I think this was John's first movie for Ford and it was Harry's last. And don't forget dear Francis, playing the simple soul who takes a Shakespereanly childish delight in Carradine's sadistic description of the "pets" they keep in the moat. Unbelievable.

 

vlcsnap-00068.jpg

 

> I'm fascinated by the entire process of convicting Manny but the presentation is dry, which bores me.

 

I still don't quite understand how someone can be fascinated and bored at the same time.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Mar 5, 2010 10:49 PM

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It's very tightly edited, too, wherein I sense Zanuck's hand. It really moves. THe most harrowing scene for me may just be the execution (hanging) in the beginning.

 

I did like the pace. No dances! But we do get this:

 

prisonerofsharkisland4.jpg

 

prisonerofsharkisland5.jpg

 

prisonerofsharkisland6.jpg

 

That was wonderfully said. The Lincoln assassination scene had me nervous even though I knew what was coming. It's how it was presented that grabbed me. It was very Hitchcockian.

 

Ooh, how so?

 

It reminded me of The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956). We all know what's coming, but how Ford shows us what's coming really got me.

 

prisonerofsharkisland1.jpg

 

prisonerofsharkisland2.jpg

 

According the Scott Eyman commentary I've listened to. There is another commentary by a historian on the Ford at Fox version which I haven't listened to yet. I expect that one goes into greater detail about the history. I did recently watch a "documentary" on the History channel about Booth, and the basic outline of Mudd's initial involvement is roughly the same.

 

That's remarkable.

 

It's lovely to see old Warner getting some appreciation. I think he works well in the role, partly because his face is good at looking tired and anguished. He just looks like he's going through heck and is at the end of his rope. He is also good at showing patience and skill, so playing a doctor is a nice fit.

 

What an excellent point! Maybe that's what really struck me, his comfort in being tired and anguished. He wore it so well. I loved his principled behavior, throughout.

 

I tend to sometimes unfairly contrast Baxter with Ronald Colman, because they do look similar. I also like comparing the two "doctors" they played for Ford, Mudd and Arrowsmith.

 

That's a really good comparison. Colman seems more dynamic, but I really liked Baxter's "honesty."

 

As you've seen by now, the doctor is a MAJOR character profession in Ford's world, second only to the professional soldier.

 

Hmm, I never thought of that before, but you are very right about that.

 

I still don't quite understand how someone can be fascinated and bored at the same time.

 

To hear about something like police procedure fascinates me, but to watch it bores me.

 

One of my very favorite moments from The Prisoner of Shark Island:

 

prisonerofsharkisland3.jpg

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> I did like the pace. No dances! But we do get this:

>

 

:D

 

> It reminded me of The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956). We all know what's coming, but how Ford shows us what's coming really got me.

>

 

Well, now that's an interesting comparison...I'm thinking now of the man who gets stabbed in the marketplace and how all that happens prior sets up the plot in a unique way. I guess the way Ford "sets the stage" for what comes next is what you mean?

 

>

> That's a really good comparison. Colman seems more dynamic, but I really liked Baxter's "honesty."

>

 

That's a good word for him, he does have an honest face. And a serious demeanor, that seems to project sincerity.

 

> One of my very favorite moments from The Prisoner of Shark Island:

>

 

Ha! The fiendish glee on his face cracks me up. You have to see his Bluebeard, if you haven't.

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Well, now that's an interesting comparison...I'm thinking now of the man who gets stabbed in the marketplace and how all that happens prior sets up the plot in a unique way. I guess the way Ford "sets the stage" for what comes next is what you mean?

 

manwhoknewtoomuch1.jpg

 

That's a good word for him, he does have an honest face. And a serious demeanor, that seems to project sincerity.

 

"Sincerity" is the better word. That's what I felt with Warner Baxter.

 

Ha! The fiendish glee on his face cracks me up. You have to see his Bluebeard, if you haven't.

 

No, I haven't seen it. And "fiendish glee" is yet another perfect description.

 

prisonerofsharkisland7.jpg

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>

> manwhoknewtoomuch1.jpg

>

 

Oh, gosh, how stupid of me, I forgot about that moment. Honestly, I don't do well with movie comparisons! :D

 

> No, I haven't seen it. And "fiendish glee" is yet another perfect description.

>

> prisonerofsharkisland7.jpg

 

hahahahaaa! I forgot about that quote, lol.

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Spoiler!

 

Oh, I loved John's change of heart! I hadn't expected that from the character, I was thinking he'd end up dinner for the "pets". :D

 

What do you think of the ending of The Wrong Man? I wrote earlier I was disappointed by Fonda's line readings. Vera was great, though, she looked like she was really in a state. Maybe Hitch locked her in a room with birds just before they shot the scene.

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Oh, I loved John's change of heart! I hadn't expected that from the character, I was thinking he'd end up dinner for the "pets".

 

I felt it was a "false note." It was too much of a turnaround.

 

What do you think of the ending of The Wrong Man? I wrote earlier I was disappointed by Fonda's line readings. Vera was great, though, she looked like she was really in a state. Maybe Hitch locked her in a room with birds just before they shot the scene.

 

:D I didn't like the ending. The entire "going crazy" stuff kind of bothered me. It's sad and tragic, though. And I do like that. But it's a real tough watch. The entire film is this, for me.

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OH wow, Miss G. You and the "Mud Man" :P have really got me all interested in TPOSI, to say the least.

 

I had heard of the title before, but it is one of those Fordies that I had never heard anyone mention much and had more or less pushed it aside to think about until I had seen all the ones I still had on my "Wanna See" list... but now my Wanna See list has a new official listing.

 

Golly... just the minute I think I can cross one off... you folks go and give me another one to add. ha. So many movies... so little time. :-)

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*OH wow, Miss G. You and the "Mud Man" :P have really got me all interested in TPOSI, to say the least.*

 

Jacks

 

It really is worth seeing. I saw in December of 2008 as part of the *Ford at Fox* series that TCM highlighted.

 

I was really surprised at how much I liked the film. Harry Carey plays a sympathetic role and Ford stalwart, John Carradine, is even in it.

 

Paul Fix has a small role to boot.

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*whoops, Ms Cutter...not Jackie.. but Ro..*

 

My apologies, Ro, I got my forums mixed up.

 

Either way, Warren Baxter is great in the role!

 

And be sure to see *Drums*. Edna May and Ward Bond are priceless together in that film!

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Hi Mr Mudd,

 

>

> :D I didn't like the ending. The entire "going crazy" stuff kind of bothered me. It's sad and tragic, though. And I do like that. But it's a real tough watch. The entire film is this, for me.

 

That surprises me, again. What bothered you if you liked that it was sad and tragic? Do you think it was too extreme a reaction? Because that's what I felt when I first watched the movie. I was bothered by her behavior, I thought she must have been messed up already to react so EXTREME to the point of almost being catatonic. She seemed normal enough in the beginning, if a little nervous.

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As it was pointed out earlier this was John Carradine's first film for Ford.When he tested for the part he butted heads with Ford on how to play the character, Ford had him play it the way he wanted and the way Carradine wanted. After in the dressing Carradine says to the actor who played the scene with him "Well that's one part I won't get" and the fellow actor Says "You got the part", Carradine replies " He hated me and I won't get it" and the other fellow says you'll get it. Finally Carradine ask "how the hell do you know I got the role and the other actor says "Cause the directors my brother and he was pushing you" replied Francis Ford. Carradine got the part and good notices and a Contract with 20th Century Fox and worked with Ford over the next 30 years in a love/hate relationship...

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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> I'm shocked that Grimesy did not like it if it was a tragic ending... for all the times he's said he likes those.

 

Who understands the Mudd Man?! The one film by his favorite director that can be truly categorized as film noir...his favorite genre...and he hates it. And I thought I made no sense. :D

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Howdy Fredsie! Yes there was an interesting director-actor relationship to say the least. :D I think Carradine had his own share of an Irish temper and I bet Ford loved to goad him into showing it. Poor thing, lol. Ah, but out of the strife he did give us Casey and Hatfield, bless him.

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