Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Western Movie Rambles


Recommended Posts

Carolann nor I were particularly thrilled with "Dorian Gray." Sanders was great but if Hadfield had showed any emotion I think his face would crack. Beautiful sets but I just didn't feel anything. I saw it years ago but didn't find it all that interesting. (Maybe it is the continual and bewildering mood I cannot shake.)

 

I still have to go watch "The Gunfighter." I don't remember it striking me as something with a great deal of tension. The most tension that I recall was if Peck's wife(?) would see him. That was going to be a large part in validating his change. Mostly I thought there were good performances

 

The one scene that I remember being fun was the ladies club demanding they run Ringo out of town. I just looked at it as satire of all those ladies clubs in all those other westerns that have nothing better to do than to decide who should stay or go. They never realize that often it is they who should leave.

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Mar 9, 2010 12:12 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, again, Cowboy Chris

 

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}

> Carolann nor I were particularly thrilled with "Dorian Gray." Sanders was great but if Hadfield had showed any emotion I think his face would crack. Beautiful sets but I just didn't feel anything. I saw it years ago but didn't find it all that interesting. (Maybe it is the continual and bewildering mood I cannot shake.)

>

 

I share the same impression. While I did appreciate it the first time I saw it, because it played like a horror movie to me, I haven't really enjoyed subsequent viewings as much. I liked Sanders and Angela Lansbury but found it a very cold film, which is probably as it should be, so maybe the story and characters themselves just don't resonate with me.

 

> I still have to go watch "The Gunfighter." I don't remember it striking me as something with a great deal of tension. The most tension that I recall was if Peck's wife(?) would see him. That was going to be a large part in validating his change. Mostly I thought there were good performances

>

 

I believe this is a story that is supposed to feel taut and edge-of-your seat in a "High Noonish" way, since they make such a point of Ringo needing to get out of town before the three brothers arrive. It just isn't there and I'm afraid that is all on the director. He did get good performances, though. Peck is good, but I admit I wanted more menace or surliness from him. He was that way at the start but then he started to soften up---and not just with his wife and child, which that would be understandable.

 

> The one scene that I remember being fun was the ladies club demanding they run Ringo out of town. I just looked at it as satire of all those ladies clubs in all those other westerns that have nothing better to do than to decide who should stay or go. They never realize that often it is they who should leave.

>

 

That's one of the comic scenes that I did find really funny, but at the same time, I thought it took away from the seriousness I was hoping from the situation. I do see they are sending up the hypocritical ladies of respectability, though, and I like that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> That's Jack Holt with Harry, btw. I wanted to get a credit in for him...... >

 

Jack Holt, thank you! I like to know who my cowboys are. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Miss G, A BIG Congrats on your milestone.Now that you've reached the BIG 21 you can legally drink. Again congratulation on a job well done.

Hate to bust a bubble but that cowboy with Harry Carey is not Jack Holt. Outside of a film they did with C.B. DeMille about the history of America up to 1939 and he used archival footage on most of the actors. The only other film they appeared in was "Outside the 3 mile Limit" which was about counterfeiters on the high seas.The cowboy in question could be an old western "bad man" Karl Hackett. But he does look like Jack Holt a lot.... Sorry....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please don't be sorry! The actor in the photo was identified as Jack Holt, but it didn't quite look like him to me. And I would much rather know the truth - never feel bad about correcting me. I actually appreciate it.

 

I still have some Jack Holt photos around somewhere - I can post them in the western gallery if you like and Miss G doesn't mind.

 

at least I think they are Jack Holt..... :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I may start a Jack Holt thread, I don't know how much interest there is, but I have an awful lot of photos, so I think they ought to go in a separate thread.

 

I am unsure of where to put it though, if you guys want to weigh in on where Jack should go - westerns or favorites? I am not sure.... he did an awful lot of movies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a great idea. I'm was always a big fan of his and his son Tim. His daughter Jennifer was also a staple in the late 1940's westerns. Jack Holt was a major star in silents and made the jump to talkies without any problems due to a great speaking voice.I bought one of his silent films a few months ago "Wild Horse Mesa" made in 1925 based on a Zane Grey novel. A slam bang good old fashion western.In 1947 his son Tim Holt starred in the remake.His name was so well know that Columbia put him in a serial and used his name as part of the title' Holt of the Secret Service" . Watching this you can see why Chester Gould used him as the model for his creation "Dick Tracy"...

 

Edited by: fredbaetz on Mar 9, 2010 1:38 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know next to nothing about Jack Holt, so if you want to start a thread I'd certainly love to see that. But you are always welcome to post ANY photos you want in the gallery...please. I have not been running across as many western pictures as other genres so I've let that thread down lately.

 

Fred, I'd love to see WILD HORSE MESA, because that is one of my favorite Zane Grey novels. I'm a huge fan of his books, and my mother even used to have the whole collection which I'd kill to have in my possession, but she gave them all away. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a Holt thread for all three performers? I think this would be a great idea, and would draw those who know about Tim Holt to discover the other two. I think this is what I am going to do.

 

The question is then where: Westerns or Your Favorites?

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Mar 9, 2010 2:03 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the majority of the film are westerns, especially with Tim and Jennifer and Jack was big in them in silents, so I would go with the Western forum. I can't post pics so go and start it ....

Link to post
Share on other sites

How do, Lila -- I watched it last night and Mitchell is by far my favorite character. Oh, he's so good. I just love that he's so tough that he doesn't NEED to wear a gun. Honestly, I never saw him like this before or since! He's fantastic.

 

I happen to agree with you. Where's the noose?

 

Movieman is right to include "Mark" (Millard Mitchell) on his favorite western characters list. He's sharp.

 

Well, I have a confession to make. I came away less impressed this time I watched it.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... interesting. I actually liked it. It started off slow, but then I got into it.

 

I wanted there to be more tnesion and suspense and I just did not feel that. The pacing or something was off, it felt flacid, too loose.

 

I do agree with you about this. I wouldn't call the film "tense," and I do believe it was King's intention to make it tense. So it does fail, in this regard. Still, I liked the feel and message of the film.

 

I wasn't worried about those three brothers coming like I should have been. Maybe because seeing Ringo look at the clock didn't have the necessary tension building...I wasn't even sure what the heck he was watching the clock for at first.

 

The brothers ended up being a waste. Their greatest value was the anxiety of their arrival.

 

I even felt if the Skipper (Alan Hale, jr) and Barney Fife ("Hunt Bromely", Skip Homeier---I'm sorry, but he just looked and acted so much like Barney!) were Jimmy Ringo's biggest worries, he shouldn't have bothered.

 

I found both of them to be annoying... which fit. How many people have had to deal with "squirts" and other wannabes in their life? The need to use others for attention, to make a "name for themselves."

 

I am divided on the comic moments in the film, too. While I found several of them truly funny (especially "I"ve seen better fights at a prayer meeting" and all the sneers at Barney), I also thought that it severely cut into the tension. I had somehow remembered this film being more austere, and it's not.

 

I thought some moments were funny and I also thought they added an interesting dimension to the film. It's life or death to Jimmy Ringo, but to the townsfolk, it's something far less, something selfish.

 

Oh, and one last criticism, I did not like the last scene in the church. I think they should have ended on Ringo's last words (though I confess I enjoyed seeing Mitchell kick Barney).

 

It did have a "tacked on" feel, but I liked that Peggy (Westcott) finally gained the pride to say who she was.

 

And I wasn't expecting what happens to Jimmy Ringo. I didn't see that one coming. That really went a long way in my liking the film.

 

I will say that I struggled with seeing Gregory Peck as a gunslinger, particularly at the outset. But then the film and Peck "settles in" for me. Helen Westcott was very distant and rather uninteresting. Thank goodess for Millard. He's a total standout. I also liked Anthony Ross as "Deputy Charlie Norris." Ultimately, it's the story and message that I ended up liking the most.

Link to post
Share on other sites

>

> I happen to agree with you. Where's the noose?

>

 

Ask the Peacemaker!

 

> Movieman is right to include "Mark" (Millard Mitchell) on his favorite western characters list. He's sharp.

>

 

I always knew the cowboy had good taste. Unlike...

 

> Hmmmmmmmmmmm... interesting. I actually liked it. It started off slow, but then I got into it.

>

 

That's more like it. Totally opposite to me! :)

 

> I do agree with you about this. I wouldn't call the film "tense," and I do believe it was King's intention to make it tense. So it does fail, in this regard. Still, I liked the feel and message of the film.

>

 

What do you mean by the "feel" of the film?

 

>

> I found both of them to be annoying... which fit. How many people have had to deal with "squirts" and other wannabes in their life? The need to use others for attention, to make a "name for themselves."

>

 

That's a good point. I just guess it's not as "exciting" when the threat is more of an annoyance.

 

> I thought some moments were funny and I also thought they added an interesting dimension to the film. It's life or death to Jimmy Ringo, but to the townsfolk, it's something far less, something selfish.

>

 

Good point! They are like Hadleyville.

 

> It did have a "tacked on" feel, but I liked that Peggy (Westcott) finally gained the pride to say who she was.

>

 

I kept wondering what made everyone so slow to figure out the truth before. From what i remember of small town gossips, these were a little less sharp than I'd expect.

 

> And I wasn't expecting what happens to Jimmy Ringo. I didn't see that one coming. That really went a long way in my liking the film.

>

 

It is rather a neat twist that he basically dies ignominiously, and yet before he goes he makes sure that his killer gets "branded".

 

> I will say that I struggled with seeing Gregory Peck as a gunslinger, particularly at the outset. But then the film and Peck "settles in" for me. Helen Westcott was very distant and rather uninteresting. Thank goodess for Millard. He's a total standout. I also liked Anthony Ross as "Deputy Charlie Norris." Ultimately, it's the story and message that I ended up liking the most.

 

Oh, yes, Charlie, I should say I really enjoyed him and liked how his character sort of changes, gets some backbone.

 

I also was happy to see Jean Parker, I mostly associate her with early thirties movies. I was thinking there was going to be something more between her and Peck, but then she revealed she was his friend's wife. She, I guess, is the other sort of wife to Helen Westcott. She accepted her man's way of life and tried to love him as long as she could. Helen wants to run and hide from it all. But as she said, she had a child to think of. And that little boy was cute. Spunky, too. Did you see him climb down from that roof? What a little monkey! :D

 

So what is the message of the film?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, once again I have managed to mess things up. I know I recorded it but either my friend has it (and a bunch of other westerns) or I got a bad recording and didn't keep it. More likely the first.

 

I'm glad I remembered enough to play along. You two keep going and I'll join in where I can.

 

Thank you both.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always knew the cowboy had good taste. Unlike...

 

You leave kind Madhat Molo alone!

 

What do you mean by the "feel" of the film?

 

I really liked the "waiting." Jimmy Ringo just cannot leave town without seeing the woman he loves and his son. He's willing to risk his life for that chance. It's rather beautiful.

 

That's a good point. I just guess it's not as "exciting" when the threat is more of an annoyance.

 

That's for sure. It's tough when the threat is unworthy and pathetic.

 

I kept wondering what made everyone so slow to figure out the truth before. From what i remember of small town gossips, these were a little less sharp than I'd expect.

 

You're right about that. "Where's your boy's father?"

 

GUNFIGHTER SPOILED BY BULLETS

 

It is rather a neat twist that he basically dies ignominiously, and yet before he goes he makes sure that his killer gets "branded".

 

I was stunned. I really thought it was going to be a happy ending. Even though he gets gunned down, I expected him to be all right. Whoops! What a perfect ending. To have the snot do it and then, as you say, Ringo "brand" him. Very nice.

 

I also was happy to see Jean Parker, I mostly associate her with early thirties movies. I was thinking there was going to be something more between her and Peck, but then she revealed she was his friend's wife. She, I guess, is the other sort of wife to Helen Westcott. She accepted her man's way of life and tried to love him as long as she could. Helen wants to run and hide from it all. But as she said, she had a child to think of.

 

That's an excellent point. I think Molly's (Jean Parker) devotion to her husband and her caring about Ringo really helps to push Peggy (Helen Westcott) to confront her true feelings. Molly could be bitter about her husband and how he died, but she's not.

 

By the way, did you take Molly's mentioning of her husband being gunned down from behind in Abilene and Hunt's (Skip Homeier) being in Abilene to mean he was his killer?

 

So what is the message of the film?

 

In certain areas of life, there is always someone out there gunning for you. It's a similar theme to that of All About Eve. You may good enough to be at the top at some point in your life, but it won't last forever. Time(s).

Link to post
Share on other sites

> You leave kind Madhat Molo alone!

>

 

Oh, brother!

 

> I really liked the "waiting." Jimmy Ringo just cannot leave town without seeing the woman he loves and his son. He's willing to risk his life for that chance. It's rather beautiful.

>

 

Yes, that's the reality of the situation and it is plain to see that he's come to want what wasn't "exciting" enough for him before. Too late.

 

> You're right about that. "Where's your boy's father?"

>

 

I know...I don't even remember any reference to her being a widow, so I don't know what story she gave.

 

> GUNFIGHTER SPOILED BY BULLETS

>

> I was stunned. I really thought it was going to be a happy ending. Even though he gets gunned down, I expected him to be all right. Whoops! What a perfect ending. To have the snot do it and then, as you say, Ringo "brand" him. Very nice.

>

 

I figured you'd like the ending. :) And yes, you feel cheated somehow that that little squirt was the one who killed him. He was sooooooooooooooooooo obnoxious. You feel like Ringo "deserved better" which makes no sense at all, I know. It kind of makes you realize how easy it is to find yourself "admiring" a killer. Compared to Barney there, he was the better man.

 

>

> That's an excellent point. I think Molly's (Jean Parker) devotion to her husband and her caring about Ringo really helps to push Peggy (Helen Westcott) to confront her true feelings. Molly could be bitter about her husband and how he died, but she's not.

>

 

No, she wasn't bitter and she didn't even have a child to remember him by.

 

> By the way, did you take Molly's mentioning of her husband being gunned down from behind in Abilene and Hunt's (Skip Homeier) being in Abilene to mean he was his killer?

>

 

No! I completely missed this! I remember the point Hunt made that he was in Abilene but I didn't catch the part where Molly mentioned it being there that her husband was killed. Hmmmm....didn't Ringo pick up on it? Wouldn't he have killed Hunt if he thought that squirt killed his friend?

 

> In certain areas of life, there is always someone out there gunning for you. It's a similar theme to that of All About Eve. You may good enough to be at the top at some point in your life, but it won't last forever. Time(s).

 

That's terrific...I never thought about it. You certainly got more from it than I did but now I can at least appreciate it more than I did. The lightness of the tone in several scenes just threw me. I had this idea in my head it was a starker film. I still think it would have been better had it been.

 

It's like the difference in tone from Wagon Master and My Darling Clementine. I wanted The Gunfighter to be grimmer, like the latter film and instead, it is looser like the former in spite of having a storyline that befits a darker treatment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

GUNFIGHTER SPOILED BY SQUIRT

 

Yes, that's the reality of the situation and it is plain to see that he's come to want what wasn't "exciting" enough for him before. Too late.

 

It ends up being too late for Jimmie. He chose his "career," over family.

 

gunfighter4.jpg

 

I figured you'd like the ending.

 

I did! I did! It's such a cold, cruel ending. Perfect.

 

And yes, you feel cheated somehow that that little squirt was the one who killed him. He was sooooooooooooooooooo obnoxious. You feel like Ringo "deserved better" which makes no sense at all, I know. It kind of makes you realize how easy it is to find yourself "admiring" a killer. Compared to Barney there, he was the better man.

 

That's right. There's no glory to be found. I really liked that. And then to see Mark (Millard Mitchell) go off on the squirt... wow! That was powerful; very emotional.

 

No, she wasn't bitter and she didn't even have a child to remember him by.

 

Nope. But she remembers him. She seems kind of lost without him. You get the feeling that seeing Jimmie brings back her husband.

 

No! I completely missed this! I remember the point Hunt made that he was in Abilene but I didn't catch the part where Molly mentioned it being there that her husband was killed. Hmmmm....didn't Ringo pick up on it? Wouldn't he have killed Hunt if he thought that squirt killed his friend?

 

Jimmie Ringo doesn't know Hunt has been in Abilene. Heck, he just learned his friend was dead.

 

gunfighter1.jpg

 

gunfighter2.jpg

 

gunfighter3.jpg

 

gunfighter5.jpg

 

That's terrific...I never thought about it. You certainly got more from it than I did but now I can at least appreciate it more than I did. The lightness of the tone in several scenes just threw me. I had this idea in my head it was a starker film. I still think it would have been better had it been.

 

I can't disagree with you there. But the "light" is also used as a commentary about us, a hero-worshipping society. I thought the presentation of the townsfolk to be rather realistic. You've got young boys who are interested in this "hero." Then you've got men who either respect, fear, or scoff at the "hero." This is very typical. And then you've got the older women who are trying to control the scene; the "League of Decency." Being a sports fan, this all rings mighty true to me. And this community (board) is full of "star-gazers." Some of us want to be around stars, some of us really don't care. I'm in the latter.

 

It's like the difference in tone from Wagon Master and My Darling Clementine. I wanted The Gunfighter to be grimmer, like the latter film and instead, it is looser like the former in spite of having a storyline that befits a darker treatment.

 

I'd say it's a mix, and this does give the film an "uneven" feeling. Would it work better if it were played straight and serious? I'd say, yes. I agree with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The ending (shooting) kind of works along the same line but has a different treatment with the end of "The Fastest Gun Alive." Some want to be it until they are. The kid in 'The Gunfighter" thinks how killing Ringo will give him fame and notoriety. It will but not the kind he wants. Now he is the one with the bullseye on him. I don't think he was counting on that.

 

In "The Fastest Gun Alive" Ford does it for self defense but he is aware of what would befall him if he wins which he is not convinced he can do. He doesn't want the bullseye.

Link to post
Share on other sites

>

> It ends up being too late for Jimmie. He chose his "career," over family.

>

 

You know this was in my mind, too!!! At first I didn't know where that little scene with the young farmer was going, but then I figured it was road not taken by Jimmie. That young man could have been him at that age. He and Helen could have been that couple. But Jimmie wanted a flashy reputation, a "career" as a big gun. Excellent!

 

>

> I did! I did! It's such a cold, cruel ending. Perfect.

>

 

And ignominious. Not every gunfighter went down in a blaze of glory.

 

> That's right. There's no glory to be found. I really liked that. And then to see Mark (Millard Mitchell) go off on the squirt... wow! That was powerful; very emotional.

>

 

I had forgotten about Millard's reaction so I was really surprised. He really showed that Jimmie was right abuot him. And wasn't it interesting that Jimmie refused to tell the others who he thought was "the toughest man in the west" but he told his son. It's weird, because it's almost like he had a premonition that the boy needed to look up to Mark as the real "hero", and possibly even a father figure...because Jimmie knew he might not live and because he didn't want the kid to grow up like him.

 

>

> Nope. But she remembers him. She seems kind of lost without him. You get the feeling that seeing Jimmie brings back her husband.

>

 

That's right. She seemed a little lost.

 

> Jimmie Ringo doesn't know Hunt has been in Abilene. Heck, he just learned his friend was dead.

>

 

Okay...so that little squirt was a serial back-shooter. Ugh! Gross! He makes Liberty Valance seem like a hero.

 

>

> I can't disagree with you there. But the "light" is also used as a commentary about us, a hero-worshipping society. I thought the presentation of the townsfolk to be rather realistic. You've got young boys who are interested in this "hero." Then you've got men who either respect, fear, or scoff at the "hero." This is very typical. And then you've got the older women who are trying to control the scene; the "League of Decency." Being a sports fan, this all rings mighty true to me. And this community (board) is full of "star-gazers." Some of us want to be around stars, some of us really don't care. I'm in the latter.

>

 

Interesting. I agree about the contrast between the townsfolk's reactions. Great analogy to this message board, lol! So is Millard Mitchell's Mark representative of the supporting characters, or the "real" workaday characters as opposed to the glamorous types?

 

> I'd say it's a mix, and this does give the film an "uneven" feeling. Would it work better if it were played straight and serious? I'd say, yes. I agree with you.

 

Well, you did find more in it than I did this last time, but I think my next viewing will be richer after this discussion. Chris made a good comparison to The Fastest Gun Alive. Talk about a surprise ending! Maybe that could be the next western to ramble about?

Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I always equated "The Gunfighter" with a Greek tragedy . Peck was superb in the role .But when the film did poor box office the studio blamed his mustache as the reason. Peck had just come off his Academy Awarded nominated "Twelve O'clock High" with Millard Mitchell. who was also terrific in that film as he was in "Singing in the Rain". If you ever watch "The Naked Spur" with James Stewart , Mitchell gives another wonderful performance. Sadly that was his last performance, he died that year [1953[ at age 50 of lung cancer. But I really love him beating the daylights out of Skip...

John Wayne lobbied for that role of the Ringo Kid, Columbia bought the rights and offered it to Wayne but he refused to work for Harry Cohn who mistreated him badly when he was a young actor, so Cohn sold the rights to Fox and the rest as they say is history....

 

Edited by: fredbaetz on Mar 10, 2010 3:29 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha! I've read about Zanuck's hatred for Peck's mustache. He'd refer to it every time he ran into Peck after that. :D

 

Mitchell in *The Naked Spur* is basically how I always remember him, so it was just such a surprise to see him as the town marshall and so intimidating.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy, Fordy Guns -- You know this was in my mind, too!!! At first I didn't know where that little scene with the young farmer was going, but then I figured it was road not taken by Jimmie. That young man could have been him at that age. He and Helen could have been that couple. But Jimmie wanted a flashy reputation, a "career" as a big gun. Excellent!

 

You said it exactly right. Jimmie (Gregory Peck) could have chosen to do what Tommy did, but he didn't. But he knows it's not too late, so now he has a new purpose in life. It is too little, too late?

 

I had forgotten about Millard's reaction so I was really surprised. He really showed that Jimmie was right abuot him. And wasn't it interesting that Jimmie refused to tell the others who he thought was "the toughest man in the west" but he told his son. It's weird, because it's almost like he had a premonition that the boy needed to look up to Mark as the real "hero", and possibly even a father figure...because Jimmie knew he might not live and because he didn't want the kid to grow up like him.

 

That was nicely said. Yes, I believe Jimmie wanted his son (B.G. Norman) to respect men like Mark (Millard Mitchell). But I also believe he was telling the truth. He had that much respect for his friend.

 

Okay...so that little squirt was a serial back-shooter. Ugh! Gross! He makes Liberty Valance seem like a hero.

 

He's Tom Doniphon! :P

 

Interesting. I agree about the contrast between the townsfolk's reactions. Great analogy to this message board, lol! So is Millard Mitchell's Mark representative of the supporting characters, or the "real" workaday characters as opposed to the glamorous types?

 

I'd say Mark is the everyday man who doesn't get the love and respect that the famous or infamous get. He's not the "pretty one," he's the regular guy; the unsung. This reminds me of our discussion about Ben Wade and Shane being one kind of man and Dan Evans and Joe Starrett being another.

 

Well, you did find more in it than I did this last time, but I think my next viewing will be richer after this discussion. Chris made a good comparison to The Fastest Gun Alive. Talk about a surprise ending! Maybe that could be the next western to ramble about?

 

I do have that one on tape, so I can watch it. I'm a Glenn Ford fan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2021 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...