Western Movie Rambles

[JackFavell]

Hi, Anne!

 

I did not know you were a Randolph Scott fan... I am such a newbie, I haven't yet seen Ride Lonesome, although I did see the beginning once. I agree, Pernell Roberts was the most interesting character in the little bit that I saw.

 

I am pretty slow at getting to the movies I want to see, but I will try to watch that one soon.

[wouldbestar]

If Westbound and Decision at Sundown are the "worst" of the Scott/Boetticher collaborations, that's really saying something about the quality of the films. Who says you needed big budget to make good movies?

 

Decision as no neat ending. Bart's friend is killed because of his stubborness, he finds out his wife was tramp, and he rides out knowing the truth but not at peace. Kimbrough actually ends up better off; unlike Lucy the saloon woman knows him, loves him anyway, and leaves with him. The town gets a conscience but at the cost of blood. Lucy and the doctor seem to get together at the end does she really know what she wants?

 

I saw A Man Alone this week and noticed a similar catalyst in Westbound; a stage is robbed and the passengers-including a woman and little girl-are murdered. This is after the Union veteran is killed in cold blood. This is too much for the town of mostly Confederate sympathizers and they help bring down one of their own who is really out for himself and jealous revenge for an infidelity that's never happened. They are finally shown as something other than crazy fanatics. The David Buttolph theme is one of his best and every time I think of this movie it's in my head for hours. I'll take either film over a lot of "spectaculars" I can think of any time.

[movieman1957]

>Does a one legged duck swim in a circle? ha. I will take your advice sir.. I am always open to finding new favorites.

 

I love it. Never hear that one. When you get ready our friends and I can make any number of acceptable suggestions. (Can't guarantee your library may have them but the US Mail still works.)

[rohanaka]

Kinda like my stupid original opinion of John Wayne all over again

 

Ha.. or me and Henry Fonda.. or me and BOGEY.. (or me and tomatoes for that matter!! HA!)

 

And how about that scene where he is telling her how awful her husband (who he just killed) was, and how she should be relieved! I actually loved that scene.... he was right, that Mims was a snake. He would have made her life a living .....well, you know

 

Ha.. yes he would have for sure. And it was a "healthy dose" of grim reality for her. But in the end.. she saw it for the truth and so it was a good thing. It is never easy to face those sorts of truths. and the timing was pretty lousy.. but in the end, I think it helped make her stronger to face it.. and I actually think it was a good thing that it came from Boone (and not Scott). She already HATED him.. so there was none of that "hate the messenger" thing to worry about.

 

Be careful! It's addictive! You'll be running to the library asking for season 1 before you know it

 

Ha.. I am already trying to see when I can plan some time into my weekend the next few days to at least get started watching the first youtube. I really am looking forward to it.

[rohanaka]

Hiya mrsl!!

 

Here I am sticking my nose and it's two cents in

 

Your two cents are welcome anytime, ma'am.

 

My absolute favorite of his movies is Ride Lonesome, for a couple of reasons. Just as he is kind and gentle with Mrs. Mims, he is equally so with Karen Steele, not at first, but after a while you see what a fine, warm, and good gentleman he is. Talk about an expressive face!!!

 

Now that is a good recommendation if I ever heard one.. and OH boy.. Pernell Roberts too... yeehaw. I will make a point of finding that one for sure.

[rohanaka]

I love it. Never hear that one

 

Ha.. it's an "oldie but a goodie" around these parts. ha.

 

When you get ready our friends and I can make any number of acceptable suggestions

 

Thank you sir. Between you and Miss G, and Ms Favell.. and now mrsl and wouldbestar too.. I will have a lot of Scott movies to sort through. (and I am sure there are more where those came from!)

[CineMaven]

So I hunkered down to watch me a Western, but not just a Western, a Boetticher Western; a deceptively simple yet heavy Western. It got me hook, line and sinker.

 

Randolph Scott. Hmmmm, he?s a tall drink of water with an easy drawl and an even easier smile. Nothing bothers him. Did you see how he glides so effortlessly to mount his horse? Uh, yeah...I picked that up. He had an easy manner, a quick smile. He could pick up some candy for a little boy (the son in "The Man Who Knew Too Much") and not feel afraid he?d be picked on for carry-

ing candy. I liked his relationship with his (ultimately) poor friend. I was head over heels for Arthur Hunnicut in this. Nope, can't explain it...but I just wanted to stroke his scraggly beard.

 

I liked how Scott didn?t mind being made fun of (up to a point, that is). He runs from the bull, jumps in a trough - the bull comes in after him. I saw that he took just so much, and then comes out swinging.

 

He?s all wet, he loses his horse, has a stone in his torn up sock as he tries to get rid of it on the side of the road. A stagecoach is passing and he must hurry to get a ride.

 

And then his life changes. He meets some very bad men. And a very lovely and lonely woman.

 

 

Richard Boone. I?ve heard some of you speak of him. Palladin, right? ?Have Gun, Will Travel.? He was an interesting actor. Oh boy, he?s a bad dude. But he speaks so eloquently. He?s not hand-

some, but he is good looking. As usual, he is cruel and vicious. We haven?t seen him harm any-

one, but we know he has. When he laughs at O?Sullivan burning her hand, or Scott hitting his head...you see the petty cruelty. Not as violent, but I think he could hold his own with Liberty Valance. Oh I can see many a saloon and dance hall girls between 'em.

 

But it seems like he also holds himself apart from his two cohorts in crime. (Dumb and dumber?); that he?s not quite like them. But what I don?t get with ?bad guys? is why they want to hold you hostage and then expect you to befriend themhold a real conversation with 'em. He had a grud-ging respect for Scott. And somewhere deep, he had respect for O?Sullivan. I liked when he put

the blanket over her and brought her some food. Besides, the film playing some sweet music under that scene signified that somewhere deep inside him, he was human. Don?t worry, folks...

that won?t last.

 

Henry Silva. I liked him. Well, not ?liked? him, but (I hope) you know what I mean. He was just a plain, flat affect, heartless killer. He?d just as soon shoot you in the back as in the front. It don?t matter to him either way. I like that b?cuz you can?t movie reason your way outta things with him. He?s just cold-blooded. I winced at his name ****, but it is what it is...or was.

 

Skip Homeier. Just fulfills the role of the young misguided young man, who throws in his lot with killers. He?s just going with the flow, doing what he?s told. (I hated that little brimmed hat of his though!!! Yuck!)

 

Maureen O?Sullivan. ?A father who holds a quiet hatred for you ?cuz you?re not the son he wanted.? They tried to pass her off as just some Plain Jane, but I never thought that. I found her to be very fetching. Okay, she?s no Virginia Mayo...but that would have been a problem for her being with three killers who haven?t been with a woman in a while. I thought Maureen was lovely. She was scared, and also had to come to grips with the fact that her husband did not love her. And frankly, that she didn?t love him. I love the way Scott finally roughly grabbed her hair, and kissed her after talking some good horse sense to her. He might be quiet, unassuming, but he goes after what he wants...the bull, and now her. I liked that, scared as she was, she wasn?t going to abandon him when push came to shove.

 

I liked how she had to tempt young Skip, but that she wasn?t really into it. I liked that Scott made her see and admit that she was not in love and only lost a little bit of pride, but did not lose her womanliness.

 

So our hero has to figure out a way to outsmart three gunmen who plan to kill him the moment they don?t need him anymore. And one by one he does. Boone knew something of Scott?s humanity that he wouldn?t shoot him in the back. I loved O?Sullivan?s tiny mincing steps behind Scott, and him putting his arm around her.

 

Randolph Scott. The best career move he ever made was to ensconce himself in the Western genre. Tall, handsome as the western landscape. Easy hero. I see why Mel Brooks paid him that kooky homage. He is a hero, isn?t he. He burns slowly in this movie. But make no mistake...he?s thinking all the time. When the film ended I smiled. Simple little story.

 

Ha! That?s what you think.

 

Now...I?ve got eight pages of heavy reading to fully enjoy.

[JackFavell]

Awesome! Just Awesome! I wasn't sure you would like this one.

 

One thing I really like on second viewing was the way Randolph Scott did not just grab Maureen and kiss her - he grabbed her, then LET HER KISS HIM. The same at the end - she came up to HIM and put her arm on his back- then he put his big safe arm around her.

 

I'm so psyched you like Arthur Hunicutt! The good news is, there isn't a western made that he wasn't in. You have about 10,000 more Arthur Hunicutt movies to see.... and he's great in every one of them. I'd have to say, he's about my favorite western character actor.

 

wouldbestar - the "no neat ending" of Decision is what makes the whole movie, as far as I am concerned! It's as messy as they come, and floored me - I couldn't imagine someone taking the Randolph Scott (cue chorus) we know and spinning that image like that. It's totally great!

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Sep 11, 2010 9:05 AM

[CineMaven]

I've seen Hunnicut alot, but now I'm really going to look for him. Talk about sounding natural. WoW! He hid in plain sight in my cinematic journeys.

 

JACKAAAAAAY FAVELL - I love how you broke down the good, the bad, the ugly and the really ugly!. ?He deludes himself - thinking he is above his partners. He has big dreams, like Brennan, like Mims, too. But Frank makes excuse after excuse for his behavior. He has allowed the station man and the boy to be killed, and has also allowed them to be buried in the most unceremonious way imaginable. He hangs out with scum, and then berates them.?

 

Girl, so well put! And showing the screen cap with Usher?s blinders still on, nice!

 

?She is bound by her view of her self, pushed into the role of the plain daughter, then wife, much like Catherine Sloper in The Heiress.?

 

Oh snap, YES, I thought that as well when she talked of not being the son her father wanted.

 

HA!!! Working ?Fargo? in there made me laugh! That was another movie I was loathe to see...and ended up giving it a standing ovation. Frances McDormand was fantastic. Ooops. Back to the West/

 

"...and did anyone else think that Billy Jack would have been better if he had not been a Lee Marvin lookalike??

 

I didnot see a resemblance. Well, it?s very very slight, for me. He was baby-faced.

 

?That scene where he takes Doretta the food just blows me away, because when Boone stands up, you can feel the weight of the world on his back.... all you see is his body, not his face, and it moves me very much to see how stooped he is and almost forlorn. He really didn't want it to come down this way, but he is too weak to stop it. Not in a physical sense, but in a moral one.?

 

It is his full form we see, but now that you?ve mentioned it, he does look like he has the weight of the world...the weight of his actions, on his back. I love when movies gives the bad guy a touch of humanity...but still keeps ?em bad to the bone! He wishes he could/he knows he cannot.

 

?Mims and Usher both abdicate personal responsibility, though Frank is more likable because he is not a WEASEL! And by that I mean, even Frank has a code of honor that he lives by - he would not give up his woman to save himself from death..... although if he were to get a sack of money for her, all bets are off.?

 

You?d better b?lieve it! HA! That made me laugh!

 

?I too believe that Frank wanted Brennan to like and respect him. I think he felt a real kinship with Brennan, so that makes it doubly sad that he was unable to escape with his life. It was like he wanted to say to Brennan, "You come and work with me" but knew that Brennan could not do that - they were separated by a wall of morality - and that morality was what made him like Brennan in the first place. My favorite line was the one where Frank asked Brennan if he was scared, and Brennan said, "Yes, I am." and then Frank said "Well you don't lie about it, that's something". He knew Brennan was a rare bird that he could come to be friends with.?

 

?...I think this is what gives Boone his respect for Scott. He doesn't flinch. He doesn't look away or drop his head. By continuing to stare at Boone Scott is letting him know this isn't going to be an easy time for him.? - Movieman.

 

When I first read that Jack, I wasn?t so sure about agreeing with you there. But I?ve come to think that Brennan had such horse sense that he probably could see the good in a bad guy and give him a chance to work it through on his ranch. And I think he talked plain to him b?cuz he thought maybe he could reach him on some level. Naaaah, that little boy down the well offered no redemption for Frank Usher. Besides, real cowboys don?t show fear. Here is where I?m going with you, Movieman. Maybe you can say you?re afraid, but don?t, for Pete?s sake, SHOW it. Aaaah, the days when men were men. The mirror imaging you and others mention Jackaaay seems too pat to me. I?m not quite going along with that. But hell, I can be convinced.

 

?Do you think Frank (Usher) would have had the memory of the boy's death in his head for all of eternity, or do you think he would have walked away without a thought - if Brennan had not come along to act as a sort of ideal of what he might have been? What I am asking is if you think that Frank had a real conscience, not just regrets? I still am not sure.?

 

?I can't say that I do. I saw no indication of it. I liked your question about why he came back...may-be Frank just had to know who was tougher, had to know if he could take Brennan. And he'd rather die finding out rather than live a life on the run always saying to himself, ?I should have shot that so-and-so when I had the chance.? But conscience pangs over the boy? I think he'd gotten long beyond that sadly.? - Miss Goddess

 

I believe the one pang of conscience he had was exhibited in the way he batted away those striped candy with his gun. With the candy, the Boy (?s ghost) came back and it was a devilish reminder. Conscience, regret...and fully understanding and accepting his part in all this...no ma'ams.

 

?There is so much actually showing on his face, but you sometimes don't notice it because he is so tall and craggy - his eyes are hooded with wrinkles and it makes him somewhat noble looking. He's like an aged and wizened lord or something, honestly, he should have been in an Akira Kurosawa movie.?

 

I can see him playing an Indian chief, actually. Randolph Scott was gorgeous and heroic. I loved him in "SHE" and in "MY FAVORITE WIFE" and a coupla other films. I'll have to re-visit imdb for more detail.

 

Interesting, when Scott meets the stationmaster and his son in the beginning, I can only imagine the horror they experienced when the Moe, Larry & Curly of evil came a-visiting. Ooh, horrible.

 

?I like ?Decision at Sundown? because it was my first Boetticher, and I totally did not expect the way it turned out... without giving anything away, the twist at the end blew my mind. And the way Randolph Scott throws a glass.?

 

Oh nooooooooooo. You?re not sending me out the West again, are ya? It is in the Boetticher box set I just bought. (I know I know...I always resist, and then when I get out West I breathe in the fresh air deeply!)

 

?Ride the High Country is a purty good story, but Scott and McCrea take it to another level. It's almost like Peckinpah knew the reality of those actors' lives was the same as the characters they played. That gives the movie a second, more resonant meaning, to me anyway.?

 

I?ve seen it too many years ago to admit publicly. And I saw it for Mariette Hartley. But now with a new found appreciation for what Scotty brings to the table, I should check it out again. I love your post Jackaaaaaaay. Well-written. Me, again trying to keep up with the Masters.

 

<< * * * * * >>

 

Hi there, Movieman - ?Re: Frank: I think Boone is designed to conflict us. At once he is a man who would do something like he did to the child and on the other he is one who wants a ranch and to do something other than what he is doing. He is annoyed at the company he must keep so he revels in talking to Scott. It is a depth his partners can't give him.?

 

You?re so right, here. Remember how he bats away the candy when Billy Jack threw it to him. Billy Jack is a child as well, and Usher knows what he did to the boy who was expecting candy.

 

Re Mrs. Mims - "I really like her willingness to be plain almost to the point of being unattrac-tive here. And she is the right age. However, when Scott grabs her by the hair and plants one on her maybe that changed her own confidence a little. She clings to Scott at the end though.?

 

I think that that might be her last bit of tentative business with Scott. That maybe ?now that we?re out of danger, is he really liking me?? His big old bear of an arm around her, is her assurance and his statement that he still wants her.

 

"Why did Boone come back? Scott gives him the chance to just go away but he can't. Maybe he won't admit to being beaten. He is no worse off if he goes. He is short two people who he didn't really feel any real relationship with. Where is the strength? Is it coming back to confront Scott or would it have been to just ride off?

 

"Do you think it's greed? he wants the money? That's what I originally thought. When will he ever have a chance at that dream ranch without this money? Or is it that he can't let them go and tell someone where he is? Personally, I almost think it is that same thing that drove him to stay with his partners - inertia - he's been with trash so long that he can't do anything else. He has to go back, it's what he does... he can't help it.? - JackFavell.

 

Everyone probably knows someone like that; the person who won?t or can?t leave well enough alone. Maybe Scott had to kill him to be sure he would never come back. Maybe Boone just really couldn?t go through all of this and NOT at least get the money. Maybe Boone went back to be able to have some manner of respect from Scott. Besides, Boone?s Usher had too many people killed to be able to live. Movie justice, you know.

 

?For its day this (and the other Scott/Boetticher films) was considered more of a "B" picture. To me, it's curious, whether anybody watched them that critically. These were not big budget films. I am pretty sure they were second feature films. Scott hadn't made a major film in a while. O'Sullivan had not done much past supporting roles and few of those and Boone seems little more than a tv actor at this point. Who knew we had such a gem??

 

Poor ?B? westerns.( :-( ) Made as fillers to a movie schedule or movies for a young director to cut his teeth on. Probably just a throwaway movie back in its day. Thank goodness we?re watching them again and with a new eye; uncovering all the beauty and lessons they have to offer. Okay okay...maybe westerns are still not my number one genre, but when I sit down and watch...I can totally appreciate them.

 

<< * * * * >>

 

G?Morning Miss G. - ?I have to admit I despise Mims. I really can't say it's all that much better to marry Doretta for her money (and you can just tell he's going to treat her pretty poorly once they settle down) or Frank's kidnapping and terrorizing her.?

 

?I despise Mims too.... in fact, he made my flesh crawl more this time as he started talking, because I knew what he was going to do. ICK! **** really did have him pegged - "A Talker". I liked the stare they all gave him as he started trying to weasel his way out of the situation.? - JackFavell

 

Poor Mimsy. The WORST kind of man in the movies...a coward. And bad guys really hate cowards. I was glad Usher unleashed **** to finish him off. But I felt bad for O?Sullivan for witnessing it. Hmmm, funny how she was right next to ****?s rifle and didn?t try to push it out the way. Maybe she knew...something.

 

?...It's like he wanted Brennan's respect.?

 

You?re absolutely he right, he so wanted Brennan?s respect. Maybe he rode back b?cuz he wanted Brennan?s respect...to face a man and not wimp out ?cuz you know he wouldn?t shouldn?t you in the back. (Am I being clear here? It is almost noon after a Friday night of drinking).

 

"...Everyone who talks about her always talks about her in a very negative way, whether referring to her looks or not. I don't think they'd notice her looks...in fact they'd think she was attractive if she had confidence in herself and showed spirit and humor. Heck, out west she'd be a beauty!?

 

Brennan certainly didn?t need a helpless woman around him to help them both get out of that mess. Guess he had to toughen her up and get her ready for the situation at hand. And right from the beginning when he & his buddy Rintoon saw them in their buggy, Brennan had an eye for her. I?m not 100% sure it was that she lacked confidence in herself, or if it was more the Code of the Movies to get a beautiful woman to play a ?plain? woman. Let?s see if it works with having Nancy Kulp play the Wife.

 

?And in a way, it is worse of him (Frank) to let others do his dirty work while he sits by and profits from it. And looks down on his henchmen.?

 

Ha...that?s a page out of politicians? handbook. (That?s why I won?t head downtown today). And also remember that dastardly character that Louis Calhern played in the Robert Taylor movie???

 

?I'm glad you brought up about the scenes in the beginning where Brennan gets bucked and loses his mount. At first, I had no idea what that whole "prologue" was inserted. It seemed too lengthy just to explain why he hitches a ride on the stagecoach. Now I agree with you, it shows Brennan's attitude about himself, about LOSING, and about life in general. Frank had to come back, he could not lose. He wanted to know he could finish what he started and whether he could outwit or outdraw Frank. He had to win no matter what. Brennan was the exact opposite.

 

I'm glad I figured that out because the scenes with the brahma bull riding had annoyed me somewhat, they seemed pointless until now.?

 

See, this is why I love the Rambles more than the Obits or the ?these are a few hundred of my fav?rite movie stars? or pedantic postulations... Discussion, insight from others, memory joggers, reading someone's substantive viewpoint and changing one's opinions. Since I didn?t know WHAT the HECK to expect, I took it all in stride, the beginning of the movie. And you?re right, it does set is up Brennan?s philosophy of life. ?Hey, what-ever...If I win or lose, I win.? Somebody wrote a poem about it.

 

<< * * * * >>

 

Hi Noir Guy - ?I also view the film as strength vs. weakness and how the two can be sometimes confused for the other. Brennan (Randolph Scott) is clearly the strongest character in the film, yet, he admits to be scared and he makes a fool of himself a few times, including bumping his head and...?

 

I think you?ve said the words I was looking for strength vs. weakness...not mirror image. It takes a strong man to make a fool of himself.

 

?I always think of Randolph Scott as the "blue collar Gary Cooper." Coop is fancy and Scott is plain.?

 

Wow! That?s a good way to look at their personas. I have to say after seeing this film, he?s replacing Coop in my heart as western hero though in ?Man of the West? Coop does do a

slow burn and had to think his way through the predicament he was in.

 

?So is Doretta the "Charlotte Vale" of westerns??

 

HA! Man, that gave me a big laugh. I love the cross-referential thing. Shows you know your --oats-- movies. ?Don?t lets ask for the moon. We have the cave.?

 

<< * * * * >>

 

Have Some Candy, Ro? - ?So here is Randolph Scott riding around out in the desert with all that dirt and dust flying around and that candy was in his hand the WHOLE trip??...And THEN after Scott loses his horse and he is walking along that dirty road he has the candy sticking out of the pocket of his sweaty shirt.?

 

What a way to start a ramble. That was a hoot!! (And may I say I just loved Randolph Scott?s sweaty stained shirt. All those other cowboy heroes never so much as had a wrinkle in their tie!!!

 

?He was as good a white hat as I love to see in a movie like this. I really enjoyed his resolve. His first motivation (when they are captured) was for himself (he says he doesn't?t want to die even if she does) but then over time he takes ownership of her situation too. But really, I suspect, he?d have done that whether the two of them had formed a bond toward one another or not. He was the direct opposite of Mims in that he was NOT a ?save my own skin first? sort of guy.?

 

Yes! He?s a good guy that?ll take everyone along for the ride...outta hell!

 

?I think he is a PERFECT example of someone who may have had some spark of a conscience but just has gotten WAY too good at ignoring it. He was as ruthless as they come in that he ONLY had his own best interest at heart in the end. He MIGHT have had a moment here and there (where possibly he caught himself reflecting on what MIGHT have been if he had chosen a different path....Because really for the rest of the entire movie, it just was all about him and at the end of the day, I think he had no measurable conscience really. (but was just not ruthless enough to get his own hands dirty so he lets his men handle the dirty work).?

 

Nice, really nicely said. I love this Ro!!

 

?I have to say Boone really was VERY smooth. I think of all the actors in that film, he comes off as the most ?natural? Someone mentioned how ?stoic? Scott is in this movie, and to me that is a good way to describe him. I have always seen a level of this in his acting that has kept him not as high up on my list as I might have placed him otherwise. Not saying I don?t LIKE him as an actor, I just think he sometimes come off a bit ?stone faced? no matter WHAT he supposed to be registering. But BOONE on the other hand just flows naturally like water.?

 

I really paid attention to Boone in this movie and liked (his style) a lot, if not his mean ol? character. He was smooth, wasn?t he. I know Scott is stoic, stone faced. But he was kind of loosey goosey earlier in the pix, no? I know wha?cha mean about some actors, you can?t get close to them. I want to get close to Randolph Scott. Real close. But maybe without the candy.

[CineMaven]

This might be an aside, so please skip over this post if you think it doesn't fit here. I think all great men and women should read this poem. And all truly great heroes (cowboy or politician) probably subscribe to Rudyard Kipling's "IF".

 

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

 

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;

If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with triumph and disaster

And treat those two imposters just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

 

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breath a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

 

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

 

Something to think about folks. Now get out in the sunshine today of all days. Think. Reflect. Send a thought to those who aren't with us this date.

[rohanaka]

Have Some Candy, Ro?

 

HA!! No thank you.. not if it is as well traveled as the candy in THAT movie.. HA!

 

Miss Maven.. I am so proud of you!! ha. You are DEFINITLY turning into quite the western gal!! (see.. If I can learn to like Bogart.. there is hope for us all!! ha)

 

What a fun read your ramblings are and this one is not exception. :-)

 

I love when movies gives the bad guy a touch of humanity...but still keeps ?em bad to the bone! He wishes he could/he knows he cannot

 

And there is that "touch of gray.. I mean GREY that the Grey Guy finds so fascinating. ha. (And that I have to confess.. oh don't tell Grimes on me, ha.. it is becoming more interesting to me as well than I ever really realized) I DO like to see my "white hats" do what is right... no matter what. (even if they have to stop and think about it a while first) But OH those Black hats.. I am a bit torn. ha. Sometimes it is good to just watch them plow a field w/ their evil ways and not look back (so I can enjoy them getting mowed down later on.. sort of like ****, maybe) but lately I must confess it is also WAY cool when they have those "moments of conscience" that turn their black a little gray too (more like Boone's character). And yet.. at the end of the day.. unless they repent (which I also ALWAYS enjoy).. they ultimately stay black as night..

 

There are sometimes more possiblities with a villian in movies like this one (than in other movies maybe) and it makes for a more interesting (and multi-layered) black hat that way, I guess. And you know me.. I am always wanting to know why they do the things they do.. so those little glimpses inside their heads (and/or hearts) are fun that way. (I must confess) ha.

 

I?ve come to think that Brennan had such horse sense that he probably could see the good in a bad guy and give him a chance to work it through on his ranch. And I think he talked plain to him b?cuz he thought maybe he could reach him on some level. Naaaah, that little boy down the well offered no redemption for Frank Usher. Besides, real cowboys don?t show fear. Here is where I?m going with you, Movieman. Maybe you can say you?re afraid, but don?t, for Pete?s sake, SHOW it

 

I am with you Miss Maven on this.. I think he used those conversations as "distractions" while he looked for opportunity. He might even have used them as a chance to make himsel look "weaker" and less of a threat than he was.. so they would lower their guard a bit more when his chance came. I think it worked on two out of the three anyway.. (****.. I don't think ANYTHING would have made him less willing to take out anybody.. all he wanted was to kill.. oh.. and then go back to those women..ha) Anyway.. I don't think Brennan was at all interested in helping any of them to reform.. and I also don't think he was about letting Usher just "ride away" a free man, either.

 

I think if it had just been him and Boone (without the woman present) he'd have fought him on his feet (not shooting him outright) to keep him from getting on that horse to ride away. But he did not want to risk anything happening to himself or her (because of HER) so he played it safe and just kept the gun on him... he wasn't going to shoot an unarmed man.. and it was wiser at the moment not to fight him... and that was the ONLY reason Boone was getting a CHANCE to get away. (that is how I saw it anyway) I think if Brennan HAD been able to stop him from riding off.. (and not have had to kill him to do it) he'd have taken him straight to the sheriff because I do not see any way he'd have let Boone just "up and leave". (I kept wanting him to shoot Boone's horse and make him walk in front of them all the way to town... (I know... ha. that would be mean.. and I guess was likely above his "cowboy code" too.. no sense making the HORSE pay for someone else's crime, ha)

 

I believe the one pang of conscience he had was exhibited in the way he batted away those striped candy with his gun. With the candy, the Boy (?s ghost) came back and it was a devilish reminder. Conscience, regret...and fully understanding and accepting his part in all this...no ma'ams

 

hmmmm.. I had a whole other take on that. I thought he swatted it away because he was annoyed at how "childish" Billy Jack was acting at such a "bad guy" moment. To me it was a sign of impatience with his cohort more than guilt.. but you could be right.

 

The Grey Dude says: ?So is Doretta the "Charlotte Vale" of westerns??

 

Miss Maven replies: HA! Man, that gave me a big laugh. I love the cross-referential thing. Shows you know your oats movies. ?Don?t lets ask for the moon. We have the cave

 

HA!!! I totally missed that in Mr Grey's original post.. GOOD one, Grey Guy!!

 

 

RE: the Kipling Poem:

 

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

 

Wow.. those lines are PERFECT for Brennan. This may be the first time I can ever recall Kipling being quoted in a western ramble.. ha. But it fits very well. (golly.. I am getting shades of that actor (and Doc Holiday) quoting Shakespear in My Darling Clementine ha) Way to raise the bar and add a touch of class for us here in the old west, little missy.

[CineMaven]

"I am with you Miss Maven on this.. I think he used those conversations as 'distractions' while he looked for opportunity. He might even have used them as a chance to make himsel look "weaker" and less of a threat than he was.. so they would lower their guard a bit more when his chance came. I think it worked on two out of the three anyway.. (****.. I don't think ANYTHING would have made him less willing to take out anybody.. all he wanted was to kill.. oh.. and then go back to those women.. ha) Anyway.. I don't think Brennan was at all interested in helping any of them to reform.. and I also don't think he was about letting Usher just 'ride away' a free man, either."

 

Hi there Ro. I agree with you that the conversations were probably distraction. Ooh, I like that he might've used 'em to appear a little weaker. After all, didn't that ranch hand say Patrick was just a goatherder. And you're right, **** was hellbent on murder and love with a two dollar *****. As for "letting Usher just 'ride away' a free man, either," I believe Patrick would have made sure Mrs. Mims was safe and sound, and then go about tracking down Usher for the murder of Hank, Jeff and Rintoon.

 

With Brennan's hearty determination, there would be no where safe for Usher to go.

 

" (I kept wanting him to shoot Boone's horse and make him walk in front of them all the way to town... (I know... ha. that would be mean.. and I guess was likely above his "cowboy code" too.. no sense making the HORSE pay for someone else's crime, ha)"

 

No no no, we're not shooting any horses here. (This is not a 1930's dance-a-thon!) Hell, I felt bad for the steer when he banged into the fence. Ouch, that hadda hurt.

 

"hmmmm.. I had a whole other take on that. I thought he swatted it away because he was annoyed at how "childish" Billy Jack was acting at such a 'bad guy' moment. To me it was a sign of impatience with his cohort more than guilt.. but you could be right."

 

You're listening to this tinhorn? Naahhh Rohanaka, you're most likely right. Can't look rough and tough with a candy cane in your mouth. My explanation was being fancy-schmancy/ artsy-fartsy. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Or a piece of candy.

 

"Wow.. those lines are PERFECT for Brennan. This may be the first time I can ever recall Kipling being quoted in a western ramble.. ha. But it fits very well. (golly.. I am getting shades of that actor (and Doc Holiday) quoting Shakespear in My Darling Clementine ha) Way to raise the bar and add a touch of class for us here in the old west, little missy."

 

Me a Western gal? I've got neon & asphalt in my blood. I visit here as a mere pretender to the throne you all own.

 

I really enjoyed this film, even as I write here sitting in a Greenwich Village Starbucks.

[CineMaven]

Hlwydkjk mentioned in his General Discussions thread Critics Choice:

 

>Wednesday, October 20th

>A.O. Scott - The New York Times

>Ride, Lonesome (1959)

>Park Row (1952)

 

This might give everyone a chance to see this Randolph Scott film. To see the rest of the Critics Choice, see Kyle's thread: http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=155516&tstart=0

[MissGoddess]

Terrific ramblings. boy! My internet connection is down 24 hours and look how much I missed here and in Rambles, jr! Great stuff, CinemAva, I'm calling YOU the "The Tall T" around here! Thanks for posting "IF", one of my favorite poems. An exercise in perfection, maybe, but qualities we should all continually strive for.

 

Especially around here sometimes. And I apply that to myself most of all.

 

Re: Skip Homeier. I had only seen him before in "Alfred Hitchcock Presents", where he's in a handful of episodes. Jackie, now I can see the resemblence to Marvin you mention. It's the facial features. Like Tall T said, he's babyfaced so he's Marvin at age ten, maybe. (I get the feeling maybe Lee was NEVER babyfaced, not even as a baby. Something tells me his Mommy gave him his bottle OR ELSE).

 

I love Richard Boone's laugh. He had the best laugh second only to Gable's. Both had "smokey" laughs, from deep in their chests.

 

I need to see *Ride Lonesome* again because though I remember the ending being unexpected (and Iiked Pernell, too), I don't remember exactly what happened. I was not crazy about Karen Steele, though, she disappointed me. I've seen all the Scott/Boetticher westerns, but for me *7 Men From Now* and *The Tall T* were the best. I'll record *Ride Lonesome* next month.

[JackFavell]

*Hey Tall T!*

 

Goddess is right, you really are the Tall T around here! I LOVED the poem - reading it over in the context of the film was PERFECT....every line was like reading a description of Randolph Scott as Brennan in this movie! I don't know how you make these incredible connections. I don;t think I have ever understood that poem as well as I do now, relating it to this specific situation.

 

I want to go back and watch that candy cane scene again, because if I know Richard Boone, he added incredible subtext to the action.

 

*Goddess -*

 

I love Richard Boone's laugh! and you really know your actors - it IS similar to Gable's laugh. They are both so hearty, so bemused - at themselves and others. I like how they both seem surprised at their own laughter.

[rohanaka]

Howdy Tall T!! (I am liking your new nickname, ha) :-)

 

I believe Patrick would have made sure Mrs. Mims was safe and sound, and then go about tracking down Usher for the murder of Hank, Jeff and Rintoon.

 

With Brennan's hearty determination, there would be no where safe for Usher to go.

 

You might be right. At the very least he would have joined in on any posse that might have set out for him once they made it back to town.

 

You're listening to this tinhorn? Naahhh Rohanaka, you're most likely right. Can't look rough and tough with a candy cane in your mouth. My explanation was being fancy-schmancy/ artsy-fartsy. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Or a piece of candy

 

Oh girlie.. don't listen to ME either. ha. It is only an "impression" I got.. anyway.. that is the beauty of these sorts of conversations.. we all bring out thoughts to the table and ramble around about it. It makes for a fun chat when we all see something a bit different in the same thing like that.

 

Me a Western gal? I've got neon & asphalt in my blood. I visit here as a mere pretender to the throne you all own.

 

Well.. you must have a little "rawhide" in that blood as well, little darlin, ha. This certainly has been a banner year for the two of us.. ha. You are feeling all "westerny" and I have dipped my toes in those dark inky "noirs" (though not lately. I need to go find a good one to watch again soon, sometime) Now if we could only get the GREY Dude to lighten up and like Bronte (and/or Austen)stories, ha. Of course the earth would likely go spiraling out of control and fall off its axis or something if THAT were ever to happen.. HA! (guess two out of three aint bad)

 

PS Jackie.. made it through part of my first Paladin!! woo hoo.

[JackFavell]

Awesome, Ro! I hope you like that episode. I thought it kind of fit nicely into our discussion, and showed a lot of the strengths of the show.

[rohanaka]

hope you like that episode. I thought it kind of fit nicely into our discussion, and showed a lot of the strengths of the show.

 

It did!! I will have to check out some of the other episodes for sure!

 

For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them

 

Poor Pappy.. (sniff) talk about a sympathetic bad guy!. (I KNEW he was not going to get away.. but golly he was likeable enough.. )

[movieman1957]

The lovely Miss G said:

 

*Oh my goodness! I just watched a "western" that had me bawling like*

*I haven't over a movie in a long, long time. It's 1936's Trail of the*

*Lonesome Pine, from the director of The Shepherd of the Hills and*

*it takes us to the same territory as that later film, with a couple of the same*

*principal performers.*

 

*At first, I thought, "oh, this is a warm-up for The Shepherd of the Hills",*

*but oh boy, DON'T sell it short. Stick with it because even though many*

*of the themes are just the same and the two films are almost siblings,*

*it has it's own emotional punch. It lacks the mythical dimensions of*

*the later film but it has plenty of heartwrenching human situations. The*

*cast is just as compelling as the later film, though it lacks the mediating*

*character of Harry Carey, jr. And it's just as beautifully photographed.*

*I mean GORGEOUS.*

 

MissG:

 

I just finished watching this film. Aside from the setting and the color pretty much any comparison with "Shepherd of The Hills" goes out the window.

 

Who can't love Beulah Bondi. Her name, Melissa, is seemingly out of character for this time and location. This is not unlike Melissa herself. She is no beauty but she has a beautiful heart and all this family strife is just killing her. She is sweet, caring and wants everything to be right for everyone. I love it when she says "I was born old." (One of our favorite movies uses that line too.) She is a joy to watch and as much a contrast as "Ma" in "Shepherd" as one can be. She is a saint.

 

I agree that this doesn't have the depth of "Shepherd" but it does have its own emotional impact. Sydney is good though one may argue her transformation may be a bit sudden. (Count me there but it is not a huge distraction.) A fine cast. MacMurray is quite good as he walks the line between friend of the family and loving Sydney while not alienating Fonda.

 

How one family can weather the sorrow seems more than impossible and the film, maybe rightly so, doesn't try to answer it. You just know they are past the darkness of the feud and maybe those that died will not have died in vain.

 

I'd like to hear more from you about it.

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Sep 14, 2010 10:06 PM

[JackFavell]

I don't want to interrupt, but I wondered if anyone watched any of the Tim Holt movies yesterday morning?

 

*Wagon Train* was the one that really blew me away! It had a good storyline, the most beautiful scenery outside of Pappy's Monument Valley, and a sweet young *Tim Holt* as the lead. He was just great, saving the day more than once, with total conviction. He had obviously made a lot of movies by this time, because he really had his chops - there was nothing wishy washy about hiim, despite his baby face and smoothed down curls. This was a man, no matter how young he looked. He took control of situations and was a real western hero. You can see that THIS is the man who would travel south to the Sierra Madre in a few years. His reaction on finding out that his girl has become engaged to someone else was deeply felt and darn near perfect. I really felt for him. Or should I say, fell for him?

 

Aside from the absolutely GORGEOUS and impossibly giant vistas, used to completely engulf our small group of settlers in the landscape, my favorite part of the film was the supporting cast. These folks really looked and talked like real pioneer people, not like actors hamming it up for the camera. Especially good was *Ellen Lowe* as Amanthy - you might recognize her as Miss Townshend from *Citizen Kane*. Here, she looks like she stepped right out of a Dorothea Lang photo. She gave the movie a lot of western flavor with her subtle, down to earth portrayal of a rock solid pioneer. I couldn't get enough of her - I was mesmerized by her demeanor. She could have chewed on a piece of straw for an hour and I would have watched her.

 

There was something so realistic about the actors' looks and their speech patterns that I was won over completely. I also appreciated the lack of "talk".... This was another way that the film felt real.... I actually though it was made much earlier than 1940, because it had a rather timeless feel to it, and seemed a lot like the very early 30's westerns. The dialogue was used effectively, but the silence was used even more effectively.

 

*Martha O'Driscoll* 's perfect 1930's hairstyle was a slight distraction, though it suited her. But her big scene at the end when the rest of the station people have all been killed while she remains alive was sensational. I truly believed she had witnessed a massacre. The numb look on her face said it all.

 

Anyway, I would highly recommend *Wagon Train*, because it had an A heart and soul stuffed into a B picture.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Sep 15, 2010 9:00 AM

[CineMaven]

I didn't see "Wagon Train" because nobody told me to. Ya see you Western guys...you you you...you've got to remember I'm a tinhorn, a steel & chrome babe, a neon lit, fedora-seeking, damsel from the world of Noir. What do I know is a good western or not unless you say:

 

"CineMaven, here's a good western to watch since you're dipping your toes in sagebrush." Then I'll know.

 

What I am marveling and reveling in is your expressiveness in writing about "Wagon Train." Two comments you made just snapped my head to attention:

>"Especially good was Ellen Lowe...I was mesmerized by her demeanor. She could have chewed on a piece of straw for an hour and I would have watched her."

 

> "Anyway, I would highly recommend Wagon Train, because it had an A heart and soul stuffed into a B picture."

 

Lovely write up Jackaaaay F. You made me regret missing yet another film. I hope you're good and happy!!!

[MissGoddess]

Hi Chris!

 

> Who can't love Beulah Bondi. Her name, Melissa, is seemingly out of character for this time and location. This is not unlike Melissa herself. She is no beauty but she has a beautiful heart and all this family strife is just killing her. She is sweet, caring and wants everything to be right for everyone. I love it when she says "I was born old." (One of our favorite movies uses that line too.) She is a joy to watch and as much a contrast as "Ma" in "Shepherd" as one can be. She is a saint.

>

 

I noticed she seemed really worn down and faded, as if all the strife in her family

and constant fighting had aged her and taken its toll, just as Sylvia points out when

she gives her reasons for wanting to leave. Yet, Bondi is the heart and soul of the

family and the menfolk don't always seem to appreciate it.

 

> I agree that this doesn't have the depth of "Shepherd" but it does have its own emotional impact. Sydney is good though one may argue her transformation may be a bit sudden. (Count me there but it is not a huge distraction.) A fine cast. MacMurray is quite good as he walks the line between friend of the family and loving Sydney while not alienating Fonda.

>

 

I was often unsure where his feelings really lay, was he truly interested in her,

was he really getting attached to her and the family or mainly concerned about

the job at hand? This may be because Fred is such a cool personality, he makes

Fonda seem emotional, lol.

 

> How one family can weather the sorrow seems more than impossible and the film, maybe rightly so, doesn't try to answer it. You just know they are past the darkness of the feud and maybe those that died will not have died in vain.

>

 

Well, I think the one death (the really shocking one) was certainly a waste. I knew what

was coming the minute I saw him playing around the machine. I was upset about that.

I like that they cast Spanky MacFarland as the child.

[MissGoddess]

I'll have to look out for *Wagon Train* again some time!

[movieman1957]

I thought early on, since there was feud going, the "shocking" death would come, it was only a matter of when.

 

Fred may have started out doing this for the company but I don't think it took long for him to get past it. Fonda is certainly the emotional one as he is the one having everything taken from him. I'm not sure Fred knows he is in love with Sydney until he says it. I think he is pretty unaware of what the impact his relationship with her early on is having with Fonda.

 

Interesting climax.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> I didn't see "Wagon Train" because nobody told me to. Ya see you Western guys...you you you...you've got to remember I'm a tinhorn, a steel & chrome babe, a neon lit, fedora-seeking, damsel from the world of Noir. What do I know is a good western or not unless you say:

> "CineMaven, here's a good western to watch since you're dipping your toes in sagebrush." Then I'll know.

 

Ha! If I had realized these movies were going to be on, I would have watched more of them! I missed the one with Rita Hayworth!

 

 

> What I am marveling and reveling in is your expressiveness in writing about "Wagon Train." Two comments you made just snapped my head to attention:

> >"Especially good was Ellen Lowe...I was mesmerized by her demeanor. She could have chewed on a piece of straw for an hour and I would have watched her."

>

> > "Anyway, I would highly recommend Wagon Train, because it had an A heart and soul stuffed into a B picture."

>

> Lovely write up Jackaaaay F. You made me regret missing yet another film. I hope you're good and happy!