Western Movie Rambles

[MissGoddess]

ha! oh my goodness, jackie, that picture gave me the first laugh of the day. is that brian aherne?

[MissGoddess]

I thought the movie was about a "good bad man". I was focused on his character, to tell the truth, so the others were seen by me as catalysts for what action and decisions he would make. I think Hart believed the old west "hero" was an outsider from society, but possessed traits that could serve and protect that society as well as harm it. He gets to the point of using his strengths for good instead of bad by falling in love with a "good woman".

 

Kind of like *angel and the bad man*. Neither film is about religion, really, but they do entertain the audience with a titillating hero who changes.

[FrankGrimes]

But does a bad guy have to sit down and read the Bible to change? Does he have to pray to God? Does he have to follow God? That seems highly religious to me. I don't remember this in Angel and the Badman. But I don't remember the film all that well, right now. I'd have to watch it again. Didn't Penny just tell him to put the gun down with a look and an outreached hand?

 

Why is it that I have a stronger feeling of religion with Hell's Hinges but not with Angel and the Badman? Is it just my imagination? Or is something being pushed?

[JackFavell]

Yes, Goddess, what a good eye you have! Brian Aherne from *A Night to Remember.*

 

And you took the words right out of my mouth - even the part about Angel and the Badman!

 

I thought it was an action western, with one character in it who was religious and another character who redeemed himself, just as most western heroes do. Lots of movies are filled with religion. Are they religious movies? Do you hate High Noon because a character in it is religious?

 

But now that you mention it, *Hell's Hinges* kind of reminds me of Noah's Ark. The story, not the movie.

[MissGoddess]

It's certainly more overt in HH, the inter-titles reinforce the religiosity with the symbolic artwork and such. I take it as the style of the times.

 

I don't remember him sitting down and reading the Bible, but I only watched it once and what I focused on was the character played by Hart.

 

Oh, and yes, the congregation do give Quirt Evans a Bible with his name on it. His buddy reads from it.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Oct 13, 2010 10:28 PM

[FrankGrimes]

It's certainly more overt in HH, the inter-titles reinforce the religiosity with the symbolic artwork and such. I take it as the style of the times.

 

Thank you! I'm not just making up my feelings about this. If I felt it this strongly, it's there. I don't see how anyone could not see this as a heavy Christian film. This ain't there's simply a Quaker in the film. It's a whole lot more than that.

 

I don't remember him sitting down and reading the Bible, but I only watched it once and what I focused on was the character played by Hart.

 

 

 

Oh, and yes, the congregation do give Quirt Evans a Bible with his name on it. His buddy reads from it.

 

Very good! And I actually thought that was sweet of them to do for Quirt! His buddy was teasing him about it, wasn't he? I'll have to watch it again to see if Penny preaches to Quirt.

[MissGoddess]

>

> Very good! And I actually thought that was sweet of them to do for Quirt! His buddy was teasing him about it, wasn't he? I'll have to watch it again to see if Penny preaches to Quirt.

 

She does, but in her gentle way.

[JackFavell]

But Penny is not a preacher, whereas the girl in *Hell's Hinges* is, for the most part. Not only that, they meet because she is preaching, and I believe he goes to her again under the guise of learning about the bible. I may have it wrong, but if you are going to complain because the girl is preaching to him, I think that is part of the story.

[FrankGrimes]

I thought it was an action western, with one character in it who was religious and another character who redeemed himself, just as most western heroes do. Lots of movies are filled with religion. Are they religious movies? Do you hate High Noon because a character in it is religious?

 

I don't hate Hell's Hinges. I thought it was a decent western because of the ending, which I find strong and then sweet.

 

I don't remember Amy preaching to Will in High Noon. Again, I did not feel as if it was a religious film. But this one... yes.

 

Someone at IMDb wrote this:

 

This William S. Hart film is an exciting film to watch--particularly at the end. However, it's almost like two separate films grafted not too seamlessly together. Part of the film is a morality play about God and redemption. In this regard, the film is awfully "heavy-handed" and melodramatic. It probably played pretty well back in 1916, but today it just looks very, very, very preachy. The other part is about Hart taking revenge on an evil little town by burning it down and killing a lot of scumbags in the process--and is very reminiscent of Clint Eastwood's HIGH PLANES DRIFTER. As you can guess, the two goals of the film can't exactly work together. It's a lot like combining TERMINATOR with THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD!!! As a result, the strong religious message will turn off many and the violence and almost demonic reaction of Hart when he takes retribution will most likely turn off Evangelical Christians. A very odd and muddled film indeed. But, I must also say that despite the stupidness of the plot, the final portion of the film when the city is burned to the ground is amazing and breathtaking to watch. The film earns a seven just for this and the film is well worth seeing because of this.

 

That's almost exactly how I took Hell's Hinges. I was choking on all the religious stuff for most of the film but the end really helped me like the film because of the surprising tragedy, the awesome visuals of the fires, and the very sweet ending.

 

Although, I don't think the plot was stupid. I liked the plot.

[FrankGrimes]

She does, but in her gentle way.

 

Maybe that's what I need. I need it to be gentle and subtle, not spoon-fed.

 

i just don't think anyone who watches Hell's Hinges won't come away thinking it's a very Christian film.

 

Where's Cowboy Chris?! He's a straight-shooter. He'll let me know if he thinks the film features heavy Christian themes.

[movieman1957]

If I may....

 

It has been several months since I saw this but I do see it as a religious film. It is very much about redemption and renewal and vengeance and what inclined nonbelievers do and that is bargain with God.

 

Is that a bad thing? Not really. It all depends on what you are looking for in a film. I found the story interesting and told in an interesting way. A powerful ending that contrasted greatly with its comfortably paced start.

 

Preachy? Probably, but I think for the day that probably wasn't a hurdle to the movie public. 100 years removed there is a different mindset for things that are so obvious. It didn't bother me but I can see where there is a fine line between a story with people revolving around a religious theme and more boldly stating a morality tale.

 

Not sure if that makes any sense. Would probably have to watch it again to be more exact.

[JackFavell]

OK.

 

The religious stuff didn't really bother me, it all seemed to resolve itself with the ending. so I guess we sort of agree.

 

I have to go - I am tuckered out after all this dee -bate! Have a good night, Parson Bob.

[MissGoddess]

> Where's Cowboy Chris?! He's a straight-shooter. He'll let me know if he thinks the film features heavy Christian themes.

 

He can and he did. I tried to answer you as "straight" as I knew how.

 

And for that matter, I still prefer *Straight Shooting* for a "good bad man" tale of the era.

[FrankGrimes]

If I may....

 

It has been several months since I saw this but I do see it as a religious film. It is very much about redemption and renewal and vengeance and what inclined nonbelievers do and that is bargain with God.

 

Thank you, Cowboy Chris. I knew I could rely on you to tell it like it is.

 

Is that a bad thing? Not really. It all depends on what you are looking for in a film. I found the story interesting and told in an interesting way. A powerful ending that contrasted greatly with its comfortably paced start.

 

Is it a bad thing? No. For me? Yes. Just as too much violence is a bad thing for others, too much religion is bad for me. But I really do like the ending and I love the final scene between Blaze and Faith... which is religious.

 

Preachy? Probably, but I think for the day that probably wasn't a hurdle to the movie public. 100 years removed there is a different mindset for things that are so obvious. It didn't bother me but I can see where there is a fine line between a story with people revolving around a religious theme and more boldly stating a morality tale.

 

You've got it. That's exactly it. I have not felt the religious themes of other films being pushed on me like it was in this one. I have no problem with the religion that is found in other films, such as Angel and the Badman, How Green Was My Valley, or every Ford film, actually. I actually love John Ford's religion. It's very present but it's never shoved down your throat. And I love his final film, 7 Women. It's wonderful. Oh, my. I cannot believe I'm using Ford as an example of good.

 

Not sure if that makes any sense. Would probably have to watch it again to be more exact.

 

No, with me, you've got it precisely correct. Like I said, I ended up thinking the film was all right because of how it ends.

[movieman1957]

In most of the films you mentioned and especially those with Ford it is part of a bigger story but not THE story. People are defined by their faith but it is seldom boldly stated to where the film lives or dies on it.. Even when Walter Pidgeon is ranting at the church it is only part of the story. His relationship with O'Hara is only part of the story.

 

Again, I think it is all what a viewer brings to the film.

 

Am I going to have to start calling you Lord Ford?

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Oct 13, 2010 11:23 PM

[FrankGrimes]

In most of the films you mentioned and especially those with Ford it is part of a bigger story but not THE story. People are defined by their faith but it is seldom boldly stated to where the film lives or dies on it.. Even when Walter Pidgeon is ranting at the church it is only part of the story. His relationship with O'Hara is only part of the story.

 

That is exceptionally said, Movieman. You're right, THE story of Hell's Hinges is truly about Christian faith. That's why I asked the gals what they thought the film was about.

 

Angel and the Badman is about a bad guy turning good more so than it being about Christian faith. Quirt is influenced by Penny, a Quaker girl, yes. But the story isn't about him finding God. Amy is a Quaker girl in High Noon and her faith plays a role in her stand against violence, but the film isn't about Will finding God.

 

In How Green Was My Valley, the church and faith are featured fairly prominently, but it's mostly about the way of life for the family and village. The story is about family, not just Christian faith.

 

Wagon Master is a film about Mormons yet I never feel like I'm being preached to. It's because the film is about their journey to religious freedom. I'm all for that!

 

I loved what you said:

 

"People are defined by their faith but it is seldom boldly stated to where the film lives or dies on it"

 

And I really like that. I like that characters have their religious beliefs and that Ford let's us know it's a part of them.

 

It's not as if I cannot take religious aspects in films. Most westerns feature this, since it's the genre that showcases the most traditional of American values, hence its appeal to a certain segment of film-watchers.

 

Again, I think it is all what a viewer brings to the film.

 

You've got it. That's the point I've been trying to make about sensibilities. Some will say The Wild Bunch is too violent yet the violence doesn't really bother me. Hell's Hinges is too religious for me.

 

Am I going to have to start calling you Lord Ford?

 

That is blasphemous on two levels! Fordy Guns would not only bury me for that, she'd bury you.

 

Ford does rank in my top 15 for favorite directors.

[rohanaka]

But does a bad guy have to sit down and read the Bible to change? Does he have to pray to God? Does he have to follow God? That seems highly religious to me.

 

Ok.. stick with me my DEAR Grey friend.. If I am not careful I will sound like I am trying to have it both ways.. because I do NOT think this is a "relgious" movie.. but rather a movie with "relgion" in it.

 

First of all.. to answer your questions above: NO. A person does not have to read or pray, etc.. to change. There are many ways to "change" a person so one does not have to adopt a "relgion" to change their attitude about something. But Blaze DID.. and that is the point. That is what changed HIM. (along with the feelings he had for Faith.. but more on that in a moment)

 

And PS: Regarding the comparisons you are making to the other movies... both of the women in AATBM and HN were not "evangelists" as someone already pointed out.. but Faith was.. so you would expect her to be "preaching" and "praying".

 

Plus.. the women in those other two films LOVED the other two men pretty much from the beginning of the story so THAT is what those two storylines focused more on with regard to their characters, rather than their faith. I don't think Faith felt that way about Blaze anywhere NEAR as early on as he did about her. So for MOST of the story.. you see her as who she was in that moment.. rather than being "interested" in him as "husband material".

 

But at any rate, getting back to your question.. the types of changes BLAZE experienced in this film DID lead up to all the actions you are referring to later on (the praying.. and Bible reading) so I guess the bottom line is WHAT it was that truly changed him (vs what changed the other two guys) WAS it his love for her that changed him (so deeply?) Maybe in part.. but I submit there was more to it. I think there WAS a "spiritual" change in him apart from his love for her. (And PS: we get to see Quirt making changes gradually.. but who KNOWS really about what sorts of changes WILL had by the way.. since he was already getting MARRIED at the beginning of the story? And.. the change in HIS character was not the "focus" of the story so much as it is in HH)

 

And PS some more: Not to take anything away from her.. but I think Amy adopted the "Quaker" lifestyle as much as she did the Quaker faith. She did not want "violence" as a part of her life.. but that was more because of what happened to her father and brothers than it was about what she "believed" in) But I digress...

 

That's pretty doggone religious, to me. The cross is very prevalent in the film.

 

Grey Guy.. to be as carefully respectful as I can here.. (no kidding) I think you are missing a key point. Why SHOULDN'T it be "prevalent"?

 

One of the things I think you are not taking into account is the REASON they are in Hell's Hinges in the first place. The brother was a pastor.. sent there to preach and be a minister to the folks in the church and the town. And his sister was there to help. It should come as no suprise that there would be those sorts of "images" and messages in the story. (though admittedly OTHER films might not be so "up front" about the plot in this regard)

 

Also.. one the key character (as a part of the plot) is led to faith (and repentance) by the life and message of one of the other key characters. So it should come as no suprise that there is "scrippture" being quotes as a part of that. It is a defining part of the story. Should they just "gloss" over all that as if it is not THE reason for the rest of the film (more or less?)

 

I don't say this to be confrontational.. but to me.. if I were going to watch a movie that centers on.... say.. someone going to watch a football game.. I would expect to see a football.. and some tackles.. a "football coach" and even perhaps someone selling hotdogs in the stands, ha. Those are things associated with that sort of story. So to see "religious" themes in a story that is centured around people of faith (and those opposed to them) is no big suprise, at least to me. But that does not NECESSARILY make it a "religious" film so much as a film that has "religious" characters and themes as a part of the story.

 

And in answer to your other question...

 

So what do you think the film is really about?

 

That is not so easy to answer... Because I agree with what Miss G says here:

 

I thought the movie was about a "good bad man". I was focused on his character, to tell the truth, so the others were seen by me as catalysts for what action and decisions he would make

 

Sometimes.. good men will do bad things.. and other times.. 'bad men" will do good things. The story (to me) is about Blaze.. and how he grows and changes as a person because of something (or someone) who comes along and makes a difference in his way of thinking. (Much like Bull and the boys in 3 Bad Men)

 

So, athough I don't entirely agree that this would be a "religious" movie.. I do admit that there is a level of "religion" in this film (more so, perhaps, than many other films that have characters who are people of faith) but again, I do not think that neccessarily makes it a "religious" film.

 

Again.. if it were a story that had football players in a football game as a major part of the story, it might not BE a "football" movie.. but you would STILL expect to see a football game somewhere along the line.. (does that make sense?)

 

It is a film where two of the main characters are "a pastor and his sister" moving to a town to "set up a church" so it would make sense that there would be messages of faith SOMEWHERE in the midst of everything. And again.. I think that this film takes a rather innovative approach to that subject in that it does not apologize or try to hide the "subject" matter. So maybve THAT is why you notice it more in THIS movie than in other ones you may have seen befofe.

 

One of the main charactters is a committed and devout Christian. That is who she (Faith) was.. so that is how she acted.

 

But having said that... I think this film is MORE than all I have mentioned above.. because it is also a drama about the brother and sister.. and how she is there to try and "help" him to NOT go astray (if you watch her expressions early on in the film she KNOWS he is weak and needs to be held accountable.. and she LOVES him enough to want to help him) And the story also shows how the brother's duplicity brings about a tragic ending to not only his church.. but his very life.

 

AND then on a whole other level.. it is also a romance. Blaze may well have a "repentant" heart and becomes a believer in this story.. but there is NO denying that he falls head over heels for Faith.. and his watchcare over her and his love for her (when she learns about her brother being at Dolly's, etc) not to mention his second prayer "for" her at the end are very moving. But I do think for MOST of the movie..his "love" is one sided. She DOES eventually fall in love with him SOMEWHERE along the way. And she may not be "in love" with him as early on in the story as he is with her.. but by the end of it.. I think she has come to love him in a romantic way is relying on a future with him as they walk off into.. what was it.. the sunset??? (ha)

 

Anyway.. it is not so easy to fit this movie into just one box because it is not just "one type" of story or another.. so in that sense, I guess you could say it is a "multi-faceted" western, ha. Yet another of those "complex" things Jackie brought up..

 

(Ok. ha. leave it to me to spend PARAGRAPHS saying what everyone was able to pin down so eloquently in just a few lines.. ha. I am the "blabbing" queen to be sure)

[movieman1957]

>Fordy Guns would not only bury me for that, she'd bury you.

 

The last thing I want is to upset anyone. I need all the friends I can get.

[FrankGrimes]

The last thing I want is to upset anyone. I need all the friends I can get.

 

We're all lucky to have you as a friend, Movieman. You're nothing but class.

[movieman1957]

Thank you. That is very kind.

[rohanaka]

We're all lucky to have you as a friend, Movieman. You're nothing but class

 

Woo HOO Grey Guy.. something we agree on!! :p

 

PS: Good golly.. ha.. in re-reading my earler post... I see that not ONLY am I the "blabbing" queen.. I am also "Her Serene Highness of Misspelled Words"! ha. So my friends.. feel free to LAUGH at me behind my back.. ha. If EVER I deserved it.. this would be one of those times. ha. Oh my golly.. what a POOR poor typist I am. But it is late and I am too tired to go back an correct it all, ha. Alas.. I shall go down in history as the girl who was TOO tired to spell.. ha) I can live with that. :-)

[FrankGrimes]

Ok.. stick with me my DEAR Grey friend.. If I am not careful I will sound like I am trying to have it both ways.. because I do NOT think this is a "relgious" movie.. but rather a movie with "relgion" in it.

 

I just happen to disagree. The Christian faith is very heavy and strong in this one.

 

First of all.. to answer your questions above: NO. A person does not have to read or pray, etc.. to change. There are many ways to "change" a person so one does not have to adopt a "relgion" to change their attitude about something. But Blaze DID.. and that is the point. That is what changed HIM.

 

Yes, and we see him reading the Bible and we are even shown a passage. So it's being pushed.

 

Plus.. the women in those other two films LOVED the other two men pretty much from the beginning of the story so THAT is what those two storylines focused more on with regard to their characters, rather than their faith. I don't think Faith felt that way about Blaze anywhere NEAR as early on as he did about her. So for MOST of the story.. you see her as who she was in that moment.. rather than being "interested" in him as "husband material".

 

And that's why I view Hell's Hinges as a religious film while the others are not. As Movieman said, it's THE story.

 

But at any rate, getting back to your question.. the types of changes BLAZE experienced in this film DID lead up to all the actions you are referring to later on (the praying.. and Bible reading) so I guess the bottom line is WHAT it was that truly changed him (vs what changed the other two guys) WAS it his love for her that changed him (so deeply?) Maybe in part.. but I submit there was more to it. I think there WAS a "spiritual" change in him apart from his love for her. (And PS: we get to see Quirt making changes gradually.. but who KNOWS really about what sorts of changes WILL had by the way.. since he was already getting MARRIED at the beginning of the story? And.. the change in HIS character was not the "focus" of the story so much as it is in HH)

 

Again, this points to the film being a religious film. You said it's "spiritual" change. I call that religious. I actually think it's obvious.

 

And PS some more: Not to take anything away from her.. but I think Amy adopted the "Quaker" lifestyle as much as she did the Quaker faith. She did not want "violence" as a part of her life.. but that was more because of what happened to her father and brothers than it was about what she "believed" in) But I digress...

 

I love Lamby.

 

One of the things I think you are not taking into account is the REASON they are in Hell's Hinges in the first place. The brother was a pastor.. sent there to preach and be a minister to the folks in the church and the town. And his sister was there to help. It should come as no suprise that there would be those sorts of "images" and messages in the story. (though admittedly OTHER films might not be so "up front" about the plot in this regard)

 

Hence it being a religious film.

 

Also.. one the key character (as a part of the plot) is led to faith (and repentance) by the life and message of one of the other key characters. So it should come as no suprise that there is "scrippture" being quotes as a part of that. It is a defining part of the story. Should they just "gloss" over all that as if it is not THE reason for the rest of the film (more or less?)

 

I'm not saying they should gloss over it. You don't gloss over it in a religious film. That's my point.

 

I don't say this to be confrontational.. but to me.. if I were going to watch a movie that centers on.... say.. someone going to watch a football game.. I would expect to see a football.. and some tackles.. a "football coach" and even perhaps someone selling hotdogs in the stands, ha. Those are things associated with that sort of story. So to see "religious" themes in a story that is centured around people of faith (and those opposed to them) is no big suprise, at least to me. But that does not NECESSARILY make it a "religious" film so much as a film that has "religious" characters and themes as a part of the story.

 

So why is it that I don't feel like I'm being preached to in films like 7 Women and I Confess, which take place in religious settings with religious figures? If the point of the film is to show how great and wonderful football is and that you need to be its servant, yeah, you're going to get some preaching from Rudy or Peyton Manning.

 

Sometimes.. good men will do bad things.. and other times.. 'bad men" will do good things. The story (to me) is about Blaze.. and how he grows and changes as a person because of something (or someone) who comes along and makes a difference in his way of thinking. (Much like Bull and the boys in 3 Bad Men)

 

So why is it that I don't feel like Ford is forcing me to swallow religion in 3 Bad Men (a film that I love) but I feel this in Hell's Hinges? Each features a burning church with a bad man who saves the day. What's the difference? Something is up.

 

It is a film where two of the main characters are "a pastor and his sister" moving to a town to "set up a church" so it would make sense that there would be messages of faith SOMEWHERE in the midst of everything. And again.. I think that this film takes a rather innovative approach to that subject in that it does not apologize or try to hide the "subject" matter. So maybve THAT is why you notice it more in THIS movie than in other ones you may have seen befofe.

 

And, to me, that makes it a religious film.

[FrankGrimes]

Hey there, Fordy Guns -- I tried to answer you as "straight" as I knew how.

 

You're crooked!

 

And for that matter, I still prefer Straight Shooting for a "good bad man" tale of the era.

 

Not more Ford!

 

Howdy, Ford Floozy -- The religious stuff didn't really bother me, it all seemed to resolve itself with the ending. so I guess we sort of agree.

 

Ha! If you wanted to pin me down, all you'd have to do is bring up The Night of the Hunter, which is a religious film that I love. Why do I like that one more than Hell's Hinges? I have no idea. Maybe because it's film noir and Robert Mitchum is sensational. But there is some heavy preaching in that one.

[rohanaka]

I just happen to disagree

 

Well again I say... fair enough, my dear (DEAR) Grey Guy. There are some very strong "moments" of faith in the movie.. but again.. I do not think it is all THE movie.

 

But I say again... I DO think we are all entitled to our own opinions and so we may not always see eye to eye on things... .and that is OK with me if it is OK with you.

 

we see him reading the Bible and we are even shown a passage. So it's being pushed

 

Ok.. so following THAT line of reasoning.. If I see a movie character smoking a joint and shooting up after they met up drug dealer (a lifestyle which I find VERY distasteful by the way) are THOSE sorts of things being "pushed" on ME? Why is his behavior so objectionable (considering what he had been experiencing and what he was doing?)

 

And PS: for the record.. when they show the scripture that he is reading.. did you notice what was on the table next to him??? And also.. did you notice how selfish the tone of his prayer was to God?? He was FAR from being any sort of "model" set up for us to follow after (if the intent of this part of the story was to win the viewer over to "religion")

 

But maybe we are getting hung up on the word "religious". To me.. a "religious" movie may not be the word that fits with what you seem to be struggling over.. because I think the REAL issue here (for you) is not so much the "faith" of the characters but more that you feel the "faith message" is being "pushed" upon the viewer in a purposeful and intentional way. So perhaps the term "Evangelistic" movie might be a better description. at least in how you define what it is you have a problem with about the movie. I THINK you are implying that HH is a film that seeks to "evangelize" as it entertains. And see.. to me.. that is not the way I see it.

 

But of course we don't have to see eye to eye.. so I will not belabor the point anymore. Two people can look at the very same painting and study it for hours on end and both will walk away with an entirely DIFFERENT point of view and that is what we have going on HERE as well.. you see it one way.. and I see it another.. Never mind that we saw the exact same thing (in terms of physical content).. our perspectives are what make the difference for us.

 

And again.. please know I am not in any way trying to make you see things "my way".

I see we are at an impasse.. and to go on and on and on more or less would just be us repeating ourselves.. ha. So I'll give you the last word and this will be "it" for me on the subject.

 

And PS:I appreciate your honesty... and your friendship. I hope you know that NOTHING I have said here was meant in anything but the most respectful way. We are clearly not going to agree.. but I want you to know how much I appreciate your willingness to let me discuss this with you in a reasonable manner. I have always found you to be very fair when it comes to conversations like this. And that means a lot to me. Believe me.. if I thought for ONE minute this was going to be a "bloody mess" of a battle.. ha.. I'd have been done w/ this chat a long time ago. :-)

 

(see.. now don't you wish you would have insulted me or something.. ha. THEN I might have shut up sooner!! ha)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 14, 2010 1:08 AM

[FrankGrimes]

Ok.. so following THAT line of reasoning.. If I see a movie character smoking a joint and shooting up after they met up drug dealer (a lifestyle which I find VERY distasteful by the way) are THOSE sorts of things being "pushed" on ME? Why is his behavior so objectionable (considering what he had been experiencing and what he was doing?)

 

If the film was about characters doing drugs and the characters are then shown riding off into the sunset with drugs being the positive, uplifting reason for their existence, yes, I'd say it was pushing a drugs message to you. An Inconvenient Truth would be this. It's pushing a message. Now if the message is to your liking, you may not see it as pushing a message. But if you don't like the message, you may feel something much differently. That's why I wanted to know what Movieman thought because I feel he's the straightest shooter around. He's a proud conservative Christian who, I feel, can step outside of his own shoes as good as anyone.

 

And PS: for the record.. when they show the scripture that he is reading.. did you notice what was on the table next to him??? And also.. did you notice how selfish the tone of his prayer was to God?? He was FAR from being any sort of "model" set up for us to follow after (if the intent of this part of the story was to win the viewer over to "religion")

 

Well, that's where you won your case against me with Blaze's undergoing a change. And I lauded you for proving that point to me. The cigarette and bottle are signs he hasn't fully converted.

 

because I think the REAL issue here (for you) is not so much the "faith" of the characters but more that you feel the "faith message" is being "pushed" upon the viewer in a purposeful and intentional way.

 

You've got it.

 

So perhaps the term "Evangelistic" movie might be a better description. at least in how you define what it is you have a problem with about the movie. I THINK you are implying that HH is a film that seeks to "evangelize" as it entertains.

 

Correct. And I consider that a religious film. And I'm not implying that, either. That's what I'm saying.

 

our perspectives are what make the difference for us.

 

That is right. Like I was saying before, it's about our sensibilities. What you may find to be too violent or too sexual or too vulgar may not be to me. Hell's Hinges was too religious for me. Still, I ended up enjoying the film because of its ending. And I really liked William S. Hart.

 

For the record, one of your very favorite films is Sergeant York and I'm wary to watch it because I feel like it's going to be too religious. And I'm a Howard Hawks fan. Maybe I need to take that challenge and see if my fears are justified or not. But, as I wrote to Jackie, one of my very favorite films is The Night of the Hunter and that is very religious. So I have no idea why that one works so well with me and I struggled with Hell's Hinges religiosity.