Western Movie Rambles

[clore]

>>And it happens to be my surname, to boot! We Lanes sure got around the West.

 

I'm sure that Kennedy did borrow from HONDO. Lane was Hondo's last name and Lowe was the name of Geraldine Page's character. In COMANCHE STATION, Nancy Gates played Mrs. Lowe just as Ann-Margret did in THE TRAIN ROBBERS.

[MissGoddess]

Wow, you know your character names.

 

Love the look of these westerns. You feel so much openness and space. It's

very free, but also makes you feel their vulnerability, and susceptibility to attack.

 

It's a talky script.

[clore]

Yes, it's talky but the dialogue rings true and most of it falls to the other characters. Scott is about as verbose as Tarzan. It's still my favorite of the Boetticher films, perhaps because it was the first one that I ever saw. This was on TV in December 1967. By then Scott was retired but Roberts, Coburn and Van Cleef were well known. I even got a friend who could not stand Scott to watch it because of the supporting players.

 

Now he's a big Scott fan and comes over here to watch my DVDs. That's 43 years now, my oldest friend and still the best one.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=clore wrote:}{quote}

> Yes, it's talky but the dialogue rings true and most of it falls to the other characters. Scott is about as verbose as Tarzan.

 

HA!! I do like it, I like "talky" scripts (Mankiewicz, in particular) and I love the exchanges

between Brigade (Scott) and Boone (Roberts). I also like the way Scott talks to women

in these films. Here's a man. He doesn't pass out compliments, but he makes her

feel great all out in the middle of nowhere when she's probably forgotten to think of herself

as a woman anymore.

 

> It's still my favorite of the Boetticher films, perhaps because it was the first one that I ever saw. This was on TV in December 1967. By then Scott was retired but Roberts, Coburn and Van Cleef were well known. I even got a friend who could not stand Scott to watch it because of the supporting players.

>

> Now he's a big Scott fan and comes over here to watch my DVDs. That's 43 years now, my oldest friend and still the best one.

 

You mean he didn't watch because of Karen Steele?

 

That's really lovely, clore. I envy you having someone that shares your affinity for these movies.

I can get one of my older friends to watch some, but not the westerns. I'm on my own

there.

[MissGoddess]

"Your gonna be my partner...right down the middle."

 

"Your partner?! Why?"

 

"Because I like you."

 

"Really? I didn't know that!"

 

Oh my, that cracked me up!

[clore]

"There's some things a man just can't ride around."

 

A favorite line for Kennedy. It shows up in this film, THE TALL T, SIX BLACK HORSES and SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER.

 

"She ain't ugly" pops up again in COMANCHE STATION. Kennedy is so sparse with dialogue that he repeats it from film to film.

[clore]

>>Oh my, that cracked me up!

 

What I like about the Ranown films are the discoveries that characters make while out in the wild. It's as if they become open with each other because the geography holds no barriers. As with Anthony Mann, the terrain becomes one of the main characters.

[MissGoddess]

"A man can do that." The title of the Boetticher documentary.

 

Now I remember WHY I thought *Ride Lonesome* had a great

ending. It's the best ending of all the Budd/Scott westerns I think.

Emotional, unexpected.

 

I like the bit with the horse, too. How he wouldn't get up, not because

he was unable, but as Brigade explained, because he didn't think it

was any use.

 

I hope everyone who saw, enjoyed.

[clore]

>>It's the best ending of all the Budd/Scott westerns I think.

Emotional, unexpected.

 

Yes, we do see him exorcise his demons whereas in SEVEN MEN FROM NOW, DECISION AT SUNDOWN and COMANCHE TERRITORY he still has to put it together or even continue to grieve. With this film we can feel that he is whole again, probably remain a loner but no longer a bounty hunter.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> what did you think of ride lonesome?

>

> It's my third Boetticher-Scott western and it ranks third of the three, but I still liked it. In fact, I have all three of those films ranked very closely on my list. I just love the entire vibe and feel of the Boetticher-Scott westerns.

>

> I didn't think the tension in Ride Lonesome to be on the level of Seven Men from Now and The Tall T. The only real tension for me was wondering what would happen between Ben (Randolph Scott) and Sam (Pernell Roberts).

 

 

What did you think of the ending? I think it's the best of the three.

 

Karen Steele weakens every scene she's in. I stand by that impression

from the first time I watched. Their scenes could have had some emotional

power if they'd chosen someone who could act and not just fill out a dress.

[MissGoddess]

RIDING *major* LONESOME SPOILERS

 

> Yes, we do see him exorcise his demons whereas in SEVEN MEN FROM NOW, DECISION AT SUNDOWN and COMANCHE TERRITORY he still has to put it together or even continue to grieve. With this film we can feel that he is whole again, probably remain a loner but no longer a bounty hunter.

 

I'd forgotten just exactly what Frank had done to his wife. Something about

hanging a woman just sounds so barbaric. I like the way Brigade set it up

that anything Frank did would likely spook the horse. Brains.

[clore]

What's really spooky is Frank telling Brigade "I almost forgot about it." It makes me wonder just how much other misery the man caused.

[MissGoddess]

RIDE LONESOME SPOILERS

 

Unusual that the real adversary of Brigade should be a character

we only really see at the very end. It's like Boone was a red herring

for the audience. Clever.

[rohanaka]

While on the subject of appropriate use of branches.....I had this little

trifle in oils painted up for the occasion

 

Ha.. now THAT's a picture after my own Peacemaker heart, little darlin'! ha.

 

I appreciate the reminders from you and the Grey Guy for this film.. I forgot to keep an eye on the times so I ALMOST missed it... but managed to catch most of it.. at least not a TOTAL miss this time.. ha.

 

Mini-spoiler

 

Your gonna be my partner...right down the middle

 

Ha.. I was not sure (until the end of the movie) how genuine that offer was.. Roberts' character was just so "smartmouthed" I could not get a good fix on him

 

But most of that is likely because I missed the very beginning of the story so I was still trying to piece together how GOOD and BAD everyone was. And to be truthful.. ha.. the movie was over before I got it all figured out that way. (Duh.. That is what I get for not paying better attention to the clock)

 

I was also not prepared to see Colburn as the "less than bright one" ha. That really took me by surprise.

 

And I too liked the ending.. I agree it was a nice way to resolve Scott's character's situation.

[FrankGrimes]

What did you think of the ending? I think it's the best of the three.

 

Of the three Boetticher/Scott films that I've seen, it's my least favorite. It's too spiffy. Seven Men from Now is my favorite ending and I also thought the ending to The Tall T to be rather beautiful.

 

Karen Steele weakens every scene she's in. I stand by that impression from the first time I watched. Their scenes could have had some emotional power if they'd chosen someone who could act and not just fill out a dress.

 

Yeah, but she really knows how to fill out that dress! I know what you're saying. She's kind of an empty Constance Towers. Someone like Constance would have brought some emotional depth to the film.

 

I love her eyes!

 

 

[rohanaka]

I love her eyes

 

Sure you do.. and I think Adam Cartwright's hair is "spiffy" HA!

[clore]

It was just that we only expected "the real adversary" to just be one brother trying to save another. We don't expect that Brigade is playing a chess game. At the end, Frank is checkmated - he can't make a move. Unless Frank is willing to sacrifice his "knight" (Billy John) and move to another space out of danger.

 

All along we're just told that Brigade is a bounty hunter (even though several question his complexity), not until he tells Mrs. Lane the story behind the tree does it begin to make sense. Even then, we still think that he's interested in bringing Billy in even if it means killing Boone.

 

But having saved himself, Brigade can now be generous and help Boone and Whit to a better life - but not without a warning.

 

Edited by: clore on Oct 20, 2010 10:30 PM

[FrankGrimes]

Sure you do.. and I think Adam Cartwright's hair is "spiffy" HA!

 

I thought Boetticher really captured the landscape in those two screencaps!

[MissGoddess]

howdy, peacemaker!

 

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

> While on the subject of appropriate use of branches.....I had this little

> trifle in oils painted up for the occasion

>

> Ha.. now THAT's a picture after my own Peacemaker heart, little darlin'! ha.

>

 

I thought you might appreciate it.

 

> Mini-spoiler

>

 

> Your gonna be my partner...right down the middle

>

> Ha.. I was not sure (until the end of the movie) how genuine that offer was.. Roberts' character was just so "smartmouthed" I could not get a good fix on him

>

 

Boone certainly was a "grey/gray" character if there ever was one. Always promising

to kill Brigade, then saving his hide at least twice. Boetticher keeps us guessing and

so distracted by their conflict that we don't see what's coming in the end.

 

> I was also not prepared to see Colburn as the "less than bright one" ha. That really took me by surprise.

>

 

Whit (Coburn) was funny and like you, I was suprised to see JC in such a role. He's

usually a lot wiser. But he was good and funny! His reaction to Boone's offer to bring

him in as a partner in the ranch was hilarious. And I don't think he was vicious, he was

just unthinking and would blindly do whatever Boone ordered him to.

 

> And I too liked the ending.. I agree it was a nice way to resolve Scott's character's situation.

 

I found it really powerful. The image of the tree burning, burning down the ugliness of the past, is very strong. How he must have been haunted by that tree all that time.

[MissGoddess]

>

> Of the three Boetticher/Scott films that I've seen, it's my least favorite. It's too spiffy. Seven Men from Now is my favorite ending and I also thought the ending to The Tall T to be rather beautiful.

>

 

What do you mean by "spiffy"?

 

> Yeah, but she really knows how to fill out that dress! I know what you're saying. She's kind of an empty Constance Towers. Someone like Constance would have brought some emotional depth to the film.

>

 

Oh, definitely. She'd look accusingly at Brigade with that way of hers.

 

> I love her eyes!

>

 

I think you have double-d vision.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=clore wrote:}{quote}

> It was just that we only expected him to be one brother trying to save another. We don't expect that Brigade is playing a chess game. At the end, Frank is checkmated - he can't make a move. Unless Frank is willing to sacrifice his "knight" (Billy John) and move to another space out of danger.

>

 

I like the chess game analogy. I do like that I'm kept guessing about Brigade, even as some of

the characters are.

 

> All along we're just told that Brigade is a bounty hunter (even though several question his complexity), not until he tells Mrs. Lane the story behind the tree does it begin to make sense. Even then, we still think that he's interested in bringing Billy in even if it means killing Boone.

>

 

I knew something was in back of it besides money, but I'd forgotten about Frank's

involvement and that Billy was basically just bait.

 

> But having saved himself, Brigade can now be generous and help Boone and Whit to a better life - but not without a warning.

 

And that is a big reason I like the ending. I wanted it to come out right for Boone

because he had the right stuff in him. Another likable "villain". The other Boone, Richard

in *The Tall T*, only talked about wanting a place of his own but you felt his greed was

more powerful than his desire to reform. With this Boone it wasn't so clear. Like *rohanaka* questioned, would he stick with his want to go straight or is it a pipe dream.

[FrankGrimes]

What do you mean by "spiffy"?

 

We spend the entire film, worrying about what's to happen, and nothing really happens. The climax is over in a blink and the Boone (Pernell Roberts) and Brigade (Randolph Scott) resolution is "blah." It's all too easy and spiffy. The end didn't match the tension of the film. And what's the purpose of Mrs. Lane (Karen Steele)? What's her end? Seven Men from Now and The Tall T have much stronger ends because they put a capper on what we've watched. In this one, it puts a capper on what we haven't watched.

 

Oh, definitely. She'd look accusingly at Brigade with that way of hers.

 

I know that feeling!

 

I think you have double-d vision.

 

So much pain and suffering.

[rohanaka]

I thought you might appreciate it

 

Ha.. LOVED it.. the ONLY thing missing was a little "frost" on the rope!

 

Boone certainly was a "grey/gray" character if there ever was one. Always promising

to kill Brigade, then saving his hide at least twice. Boetticher keeps us guessing and

so distracted by their conflict that we don't see what's coming in the end

 

I agree.. because I completely did NOT see it coming at all. In fact.. ha.. and maybe again it seemed like this because I missed some of the early parts, but the movie was over and I suddenly looked around and said out loud.. "Already?" ha. But then again.. I think it really WAS over (especially for Scott's character) so why not say "the end" ha.

 

Whit (Coburn) was funny and like you, I was suprised to see JC in such a role. He's

usually a lot wiser. But he was good and funny! His reaction to Boone's offer to bring

him in as a partner in the ranch was hilarious. And I don't think he was vicious, he was

just unthinking and

 

I am used to seeing him much "grittier" or at the very least much more "cunning" and/or "treacherous" ha. So it caught me off guard for sure. I agree.. I don't think he was vicious.. and I think he was even suprised when Billy started telling him how vicious FRANK was.. up to then I don't think he realized what sort of folks he was dealing with.. even indirectly.

 

would blindly do whatever Boone ordered him to

 

Up to a point.. because I don't think he was "ruthless" or as you say.. "viscious". So IF Boone HAD turned out worse than he was.. or if they had hooked up w/ Frank's bunch.. and one of them told him to do something REALLY awful (against Scott.. or even the girl, etc) I think he'd have balked.. and maybe gotten killed.. in fact THAT is what I was expecting.. again not knowing for sure how BAD (or should I say "black hatted" ha) Robert's character was or was not. Whew.. what a relief they were both just "grey" after all. ha.

 

PS: Grey Dude.. yeah.. the "landscape" ha. Tell me another one..

[MissGoddess]

RIDE LONESOME SPOILERS

 

> We spend the entire film, worrying about what's to happen, and nothing really happens. The climax is over in a blink and the Boone (Pernell Roberts) and Brigade (Randolph Scott) resolution is "blah." It's all too easy and spiffy. The end didn't match the tension of the film. And what's the purpose of Mrs. Lane (Karen Steele)? What's her end? Seven Men from Now and The Tall T have much stronger ends because they put a capper on what we've watched. In this one, it puts a capper on what we haven't watched.

>

 

I disagree. I think the Boetticher movies are most interesting in depicting

the relationships between the antagonists. I was led to believe one way

about Boone, and then to qualify my idea of him as a "villain" just as I

was tempted to with Frank (Richard Boone) in *The Tall T*. It is less straightforward,

and more interesting to me that way.

 

I found the ending very powerful, not just because it was unexpected, but

because of all the facets of Brigade's character it revealed (mostly) in terms of action.

He was ducedly clever; he was ruthless, willing to be as cold blooded as the

killers with Billy's life; he was unafraid to die for it; he was an avenger of his

wife's death, not a bounty hunter; he was still loyal to his wife (he didn't

ride off with Mrs. Lane) and he was generous enough to give an outlaw like

Boone his second chance. All this came out in the last several minutes of

the movie. I like that. And I felt it more than paid off the earlier tensions.

[clore]

>>Richard Boone in The Tall T, only talked about wanting a place of his own but you felt his greed was more powerful than his desire to reform. With this Boone it wasn't so clear. Like rohanaka questioned, would he stick with his want to go straight or is it a pipe dream.

 

I think that if Richard Boone had gotten his ranch, he would have given it up as it involved too much work. This is a man who is responsible for the death of a child, even if it was his henchman that did it. He might like to think he's different than the animals that he rides with, but as Brennan noted, he does ride with them. It's too late for Usher to find his moral compass.

 

But Sam Boone is different - we don't know the extent of his crimes, but he does appear to be basically decent. Little things like worrying about the passengers on the stage bring that out. Usher would have dumped them in the well. If Boone earned his amnesty by killing Brigade, he would step over the line and probably not be able to cross back, even though he could fool himself for a few days, months or years.

 

But while these may appear to be simple little programmers shot in two weeks on a minimal budget, what makes them stand up today against bigger-budgeted brethren is that that appearance is deceptive. They've transcended their origins. They're a lot more psychological than those big westerns that coined the phrase in the 50s, it's just that few paid attention.