Western Movie Rambles

[rohanaka]

HOWDY there Monsieur Pirate Dude..

 

Welcome to the "western" side of town, ha.

 

I had come to like Boone so much that a bona fide confrontation between the two would have been a dilemma for me. The story may have been more about Brigade but I liked Boone better. He was the more interesting character, IMO. Had they dueled it out Brigade would have had to win and the story and depiction of Boone made me not want to see him as a loser. Boone had his past and kept us guessing a lot but he was likable and in the end he had become sympathetic. Both Boone and Brigade come out winners and I can see how that can be unsatisfying for some, like a football game that ends in a tie, ugh?... The ending was unexpected but Boone's burgeoning appeal as a decent sort nearly came to rival that of Brigades and I think that is what set us up for a draw. It was okay with me.

 

That is a great way to look at it. For all of his "untrustworthiness" I did sort of cringe just thinking that at any moment the bullets were going to fly and poor Pernell was going to be laying there in the dust. I can't go so far as to say I had come to "like" him yet because he really did keep me "on guard" with his whole personality being what it was.. but I was holding out the least little "glimmer" of hope that he might prove to be an alright guy... maybe. It was a nice suprise to see him turn out alright at the end.

 

Why don?t they just know that women act like that from time to time

 

Maybe because they would also have to understand that as men... THEY were the reason WHY!!!! ha

 

Van Cleeve has always been ?flimsy? to me

 

I agree.. and "flimsy" is the right word for him. For such an AWFUL guy (as to have committed the sorts of crimes he had) he did not really seem to have much "meat" on his bones in terms of being portrayed as some sinister really rotten BAD guy. It would have made him much more intimidating to see him being ruthless a time or two rather than just hearing about his long forgotten (by him) past acts.

[fredbaetz]

Watched it a year or so ago. I thought it was a well done western with a good cast and solid direction by Lew Landers.. Always considered it "The Lost Patrol Goes West". A few years later the same basic plot was used in "Bataan" with Robert Taylor and Thomas Mitchell. But I did enjoy this unconventional western. But was glad to see a lot of supporting actors getting to carry a film without a big star....

 

Edited by: fredbaetz on Oct 23, 2010 3:05 PM

[laffite]

_*MissG*_, Queen of the West writes:

 

*Bonjour...or shall I say, "how do" M. Laffite. So glad to see you on this side of town!* +

 

Thank ye, ma?am. Much obliged. Now if I can jus? find the general store I may gits me a good pair o? boots (and some spurs too?or should I get a horse first?) Hmm, maybe I can pawn my sword and peg leg?where?s the saloon?, BTW.

 

I saw Frank?s alert on Lonesome Ride and was able to find time to sit down and watch it. More alerts like that, please

 

_*Rohanaka*_, Golden Girl of the West writes:

 

*Maybe because they would also have to understand that as men... THEY were the reason WHY!!!! ha*

 

You?re right. Her husband upped an died on him, mangy polecat! That was terrible of him. But at least we can say that most men would a hold a woman at a worth higher than that of the Mescalero. Mrs Lane might have wept at the death of her husband (shameful!) but she had pretty eyes and is certainly worth more than a horse. (However, I might not want to concede much more than that )

 

*I agree.. and "flimsy" is the right word for him.*

 

Coined by *Frank* (Grimes, that is, not the other one) who must take credit for this mot juste.

 

Thanks, Gals, for the welcome. This is indeed a strange land for a pirate. I mean, where's the water? And it's so hot! And where's that saloon?

[rohanaka]

as I have watched, I find that it looks like a remake of Ford's Lost Patrol!

 

Wowsa Ms Favell.. that one totally slipped past my radar.. though even if I had been hoping to catch it..I was up w/ the kidling half the night.. she has a VERY nasty cold right now.. blech. So I was so bleary eyed by that time of morning.. I likely would not have been able to see straight enough to watch.. ha.

 

But OH me.. I went into the TCM database and read the synopsis.. It DOES sound very intriguing. (And among the other titles you folks have tossed out to compare it with.. it sounds a bit like that portion of The Plainsman where Coop and the boys are holed up waiting for Custer to get there) But from what I read, it definitly sounds very (VERY) "Lost Patrol-ish". Good golly.. if what I saw in the database is as accurate as it sounds (and along with you have written I imagine it is) you could take LP.. set it in the old west w/ a bunch of Apaches instead of out in the desert w/ a some angry Arabs.. and.. ha.. (with all his Ford "experience" under his belt) ha..Victor McLaglen could have STILL been in either movie.. ha.

 

But it sounds like it was fun to see some of the other "second banana guys" in the key rolls too. Francis Ford... oh golly.. I bet that was a treat.

[rohanaka]

Now if I can jus? find the general store I may gits me a good pair o? boots (and some spurs too?or should I get a horse first?) Hmm, maybe I can pawn my sword and peg leg?where?s the saloon?

 

OH say it isn't so!! Please tell me you can take the pirate out of the "ocean" but you can't take the "ocean" out of the.. Oh wait.. that doesn't make as much sense as I thought it would when I was thinking it in my head. HA!!

 

But just the very thought of the message board's very own "Pirate Extarodinaire" pawning his "peg leg" for a pair of boots.. We can't be having THAT!! ha. Maybe we can get you a horse with some sort of custom saddle so your peg leg will fit in that stirrup. ha. That way you can drop in anytime a for ride along with us on our rambles.. but you will still have your "sea legs" as well.

 

I might not want to concede much more than that

 

Well.. that is more of a "concession" than we might get from SOME folks around here.. ha I liked that she seemed to genuinely love (or at least care about) her husband. Often times these westerns show a woman who is only "appreciated" by some other man that she cannot have.. meanwhile she is stuck unhappily married to some colossal jerk or something.

 

Coined by Frank (Grimes, that is, not the other one) who must take credit for this mot juste

 

Oops... I missed that.. ha. But even if I had caught it.. I would not have been able to say that I agreed.. ha. Becaues as you may know.. the Grey Dude and I NEVER agree.. .(or haven't you read??? ha) So I had to see YOU say it before I could acknowledge that it made sense.. HA!!

 

PS: Hey guess what?? I am "unofficially" learning elementary FRENCH as a part of my new job.. ha. Go ahead.. ask me a color.. any color!!! Or how about a month of the year?? ha. WHO'D a thunk it?? (especially at MY advanced age. ha.. I guess I am living proof that you are NEVER to old to learn something new..ha) But dont' be too impressed. ha.. My "skills" are VERY limited.. and I will likely NOT have much opportunity to go beyond just my very "elementary" lessons.. ha. I imagine that I would DEFINITLEY go down in flames on any given episode of "Are You Smarter than a French 1st Grader" HA

[laffite]

*But just the very thought of the message board's very own "Pirate Extarodinaire" pawning his "peg leg" for a pair of boots.. We can't be having THAT!!*

 

Oooh, now you're making me ashamed . Hey, wait a minute, I remember an old Red Ryder comic book where ole Red had this boat with wheels on it and sails above propelled by the desert winds. Maybe I can do that.

 

*the Grey Dude and I NEVER agree.. .(or haven't you read???*

 

I think I did run across an instance where you and the Grey actually agreed on something. It took me a long time to get over it.

 

*I am "unofficially" learning elementary FRENCH as a part of my new job.. ha. Go ahead.. ask me a color.. any color!!!*

 

How about crimson purple green?

 

Edited by: laffite on Oct 23, 2010 1:45 PM

[MissGoddess]

mon cher, pirate...you are PERFECT for the old west! Or should I say,

except for a certain hydration problem in the desert, the Old West is

perfect for you! For you see, it is the "code" around these parts never

to enquire into a man's past...or ask where he comes from or what he

does for a living...so those pesky people with their funny laws about

piracy, cannot touch you out here. Though we cannot promise not

send out some occasional "Wanted: Dead or Alive" posters if you are

absent for too long....just ask a certain Mad Hat Molo about that. He

keeps ripping down the posters but we keep putting them back up.

 

So if you can bear the heat and want a change of pace, you can be

sure you will fit in just fine. In fact, the Barbary Coast was just made

to order for you!

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Oct 23, 2010 7:00 PM

[rohanaka]

Hey, wait a minute, I remember an old Red Ryder comic book where ole Red had this boat with wheels on it and sails above propelled by the desert winds. Maybe I can do that

 

Yeehaw.. now you're talkin' pardner!! ha. I bet that would be THE way to travel.. so long as you had a good breeze. Of course.. if you hang around THESE parts very long.. ha. with all the "blabbing" I tend to do (and all the "long winded replies" I generally feel compelled to make for some unexplanied reason..ha) there is often a seemingly endless supply of hot air. so you SHOULD be ok for quite some time to come! ha.

 

How about crimson purple green

 

Well.. the teacher has not taught me "crimson" but I have heard her say "red"... so how about rouge, vert, and violet?? ha. (and PS.. I confess.. I DID have to look up the spelling.. I am only learning to SPEAK French..ha. sadly I would have way TOO far to go to learn how to spell it too. ha)

[laffite]

*So if you can bear the heat and want a change of pace, you can be*

*sure you will fit in just fine.* ---MissG

 

Thankee ma?am. I am much obliged. Plumb.

 

 

*if you hang around THESE parts very long.. ha. with all the "blabbing" I tend to do (and all the "long winded replies" I generally feel compelled to make for some unexplanied reason..ha) there is often a seemingly endless supply of hot air. so you SHOULD be ok for quite some time to come! ha. * ---Rohanaka

 

Ho Ro, that I might ?blab? like you! (Why, folks might even listen to me). As far as the alleged hot air is concerned I have given up the Red Ryder wind-propelled land boat idea and have opted instead for a new look.

 

 

The Western Dandy! Now don?t I look right like ole Bat Masterson, or somebody really classy like that? I know I can?t fool anyone but the hat was on sale.

[FrankGrimes]

Hey there, Clore -- She's the neutral observer. She questions Brigade's motives, Billy tries to use her to help get free, knowing full well that the others have too much at stake to aid him. Boone admits to her that he wants to kill Brigade, Brigade tells her the story of the tree...

 

Exposition is bounced off her, she gets to ask the questions that the audience is wondering, all in the purpose of moving the story along.

 

That's an excellent point. And you're very right about that. But, are the characters in Seven Men from Now and The Tall T also used to provide exposition? And are those characters more meaningful to the story? I believe the women are most certainly valuable characters in each film. In fact, they are completely central. In Ride Lonesome, the woman is merely along for the ride. In fact, I'd say ALL of the characters are along for the ride. The story is about Brigade and the rest really don't matter. Lots of empty threats.

 

I guess their meaning is helping to keep Frank's posse from killing Brigade.

 

Howdy, Fordy Guns -- I don't know, I think it's a marvelous twist that the young kid isn't going to get the breaks just because of his youth, but an older, wiser outlaw is to be granted a second chance.

 

I'm confused by that. What do you mean?

 

Well, you may be right and I do think Van Cleef played him rather soft, surprisingly.

with the build up, I was expecting someone nasty and cold blooded like the other

Frank in Once Upon a Time in the West.

 

It wasn't built that well and the finished product fell short... with me.

 

However, I thought the twist with Boone's character made up for a lot,

 

I didn't find that to be well done, either. Boone would have fought Brigade for Billy but we don't get that, so it doesn't say anything about Boone's character. He got what he wanted. I understand why this is because it's about Brigade and his not caring about the money. It was a statement on Brigade's character, not Boone's.

 

In The Naked Spur, all of the men are looking to bring Ben (Robert Ryan) in for the money. They are all driven by the money more than anything else. That is, until Howard (James Stewart) is awakened by Lina (Janet Leigh). That's a very strong ending. In that film, Roy (Ralph Meeker) is the "Boone."

 

and I still find what Frank did to Brigade's wife pretty harrowing on its own.

 

But in Once Upon a Time in the West, we are feeling the conflict throughout. We come to know Frank. We wonder what is going on with Harmonica in regards to Frank. It's strong. In Ride Lonesome, we are just waiting for the posse to catch up with Brigade and his hanger-ons. We see Frank once (maybe twice) before the showdown. And that little snippet was very empty. A film like High Noon does a much better job of the "waiting."

 

Howdy there, Laffite -- It's really nice to see you back on the board. And to see you out west.

 

I had come to like Boone so much that a bona fide confrontation between the two would have been a dilemma for me.

 

And that would have been far more interesting to me. You are now feeling some sort of confliction. Fascinating. But, we get the quick "pat on the back."

 

The story may have been more about Brigade but I liked Boone better. He was the more interesting character, IMO.

 

I enjoyed Boone, too. Although, I was getting tired of all the talk.

 

Boone had his past and kept us guessing a lot but he was likable and in the end he had become sympathetic.

 

Was he sympathetic? He gets want he wants. What if he didn't?

 

Both Boone and Brigade come out winners and I can see how that can be unsatisfying for some, like a football game that ends in a tie, ugh?

 

It's not that they both come out winners that bothers me, actually. It's that it was too easy of a conclusion.

 

The ending was unexpected but Boone's burgeoning appeal as a decent sort nearly came to rival that of Brigades and I think that is what set us up for a draw. It was okay with me.

 

Was he a decent fellow? Like I said, what if Brigade tells him he's not getting Billy? And wasn't he going to kill Brigade for Billy?

 

I liked James Coburn. I didn?t know it was him at first. Who is that, I kept saying. He was so young. I agree that Whit was not vicious but it takes a while to get that. The first time we see him (at the station) he appears almost demented, that craven, drooly laugh, as if he couldn?t wait to torture someone. Absolutely creepy. But, as someone as pointed out, he makes the remark about the Christian burial and then later he betrays a decency and soft core when he appears genuinely appalled that something bad might happen Mrs Lane when Frank and the boys come. Finally, there he is beaming boyishly practically overcome when Boone declares him a partner in the running of the ranch. I am probably being a bit too earnest here but I was actually a little moved by the exchange. It was a genuine friendship thing going on there between guys. MissG, I know you said this was ?hilarious? and perhaps it is But I never for an instant felt that Boone was insincere and once again Boone is seen in a good light. Whit is not vicious. He is simple, a bit callow, maybe even a little wayward mentally. I almost have the impression that he might not be able to quite live on his own.

 

That was really good. I like how you appreciated Whit. Very nicely expressed.

[rohanaka]

Ha... Laffite.. if you "blab" like me.. good luck getting ANYONE to listen. (I am likely the most often "un-listened to" blabber on the planet.. ha... go ahead.. just ask any 7 year old kid I know.. ha. Or better yet.. ask Frank Grimes! )

 

I have given up the Red Ryder wind-propelled land boat idea and have opted instead for a new look

 

Hey.. I am liking that whole "new you" look. Way cool!! I think you are have sort of a Richard Boone-ish Long Haired "Paladin" thing going on. (April?? Do you see the resemblance??) ha. Whatever you call it, you wear the West well, sir.

[MissGoddess]

> Howdy, Fordy Guns -- I don't know, I think it's a marvelous twist that the young kid isn't going to get the breaks just because of his youth, but an older, wiser outlaw is to be granted a second chance.

>

> I'm confused by that. What do you mean?

>

 

i mean that's an interesting choice the movie makes. Frank pleads for Billy to

be let go because "he's just a kid" but Brigade answers he was as old as

his gun or whatever. It's true he doesn't lynch Billy, but he is only releasing

him to be hung legally, not letting him have a "second chance" because he

is young and stupid. However, he does let Boone have a second chance when,

as you say, he was determined to kill Brigade all along if he didn't get his way.

This didn't seem to lessen Boone in Brigade's eyes. In a way, he played

judge and jury there.

 

> In The Naked Spur, all of the men are looking to bring Ben (Robert Ryan) in for the money. They are all driven by the money more than anything else. That is, until Howard (James Stewart) is awakened by Lina (Janet Leigh). That's a very strong ending. In that film, Roy (Ralph Meeker) is the "Boone."

>

 

well, you could argue that Howie's change of heart came rather late (after Ben died).

 

 

> But in Once Upon a Time in the West, we are feeling the conflict throughout. We come to know Frank. We wonder what is going on with Harmonica in regards to Frank. It's strong. In Ride Lonesome, we are just waiting for the posse to catch up with Brigade and his hanger-ons. We see Frank once (maybe twice) before the showdown. And that little snippet was very empty. A film like High Noon does a much better job of the "waiting."

>

 

i can't disagree with any of that but *ride lonesome* still was not a let down for me.

and i will disagree about tension in OUATITW. that movie dragged and dragged

for me, and I did not care for the ending at all.

[FrankGrimes]

i mean that's an interesting choice the movie makes. Frank pleads for Billy to

be let go because "he's just a kid" but Brigade answers he was as old as

his gun or whatever. It's true he doesn't lynch Billy, but he is only releasing

him to be hung legally, not letting him have a "second chance" because he

is young and stupid. However, he does let Boone have a second chance when,

as you say, he was determined to kill Brigade all along if he didn't get his way.

This didn't seem to lessen Boone in Brigade's eyes. In a way, he played

judge and jury there.

 

Oh! That's really good. You're very right, Brigade is completely playing judge and jury. Boone killed but he's given a second chance by Brigade and an "exception" in the law. Billy doesn't get that chance. Not that he deserved it. Brigade's caring for justice is personal. It's all about him and his story. I'm all right with that. It just makes the other characters unimportant to me.

 

well, you could argue that Howie's change of heart came rather late (after Ben died).

 

He would still get money for a dead Ben.

 

i can't disagree with any of that but ride lonesome still was not a let down for me.

and i will disagree about tension in OUATITW. that movie dragged and dragged

for me, and I did not care for the ending at all.

 

It's a slow-paced drama, there's no arguing that. Still, the drama is being built and there is a dramatic pay-off.

[MissGoddess]

>

> Oh! That's really good. You're very right, Brigade is completely playing judge and jury. Boone killed but he's given a second chance by Brigade and an "exception" in the law. Billy doesn't get that chance. Not that he deserved it. Brigade's caring for justice is personal. It's all about him and his story. I'm all right with that. It just makes the other characters unimportant to me.

>

 

i'm sure it could have been done better but it still pleased me. and i only thought

about the choices between billy and boone after the fact. i didn't really sense any

deliberate choice while the movie played out.

 

> He would still get money for a dead Ben.

 

i know, but that taunting voice of Ben's, always calling Howie out on his

true motivations, was stilled forever. it's easier to let go of a corpse than

a smart mouthed prisoner, don't you think?

 

> It's a slow-paced drama, there's no arguing that. Still, the drama is being built and there is a dramatic pay-off.

 

there may come a day when i will see more of what you and others see

in OUATITW (Once Upon a Time in the West). part of me wants to like

it more because i adore italians and their art...and the idea of an italian

loving the west and john ford enough to make his biggest budget film

all about these things is very appealing.

[MissGoddess]

mon cher pirate, you bring class out here in the west. in that

dashing outfit, you'll give LAYNE and his big, white sombrero

some competition.

 

and yes, KC-Ro, i do see the "Paladin" flair...it's just what

we need around here.

[FrankGrimes]

i know, but that taunting voice of Ben's, always calling Howie out on his

true motivations, was stilled forever. it's easier to let go of a corpse than

a smart mouthed prisoner, don't you think?

 

But it's easier to bring a dead man to town for cash than a live one.

 

there may come a day when i will see more of what you and others see

in OUATITW (Once Upon a Time in the West). part of me wants to like

it more because i adore italians and their art...and the idea of an italian

loving the west and john ford enough to make his biggest budget film

all about these things is very appealing.

 

It's a different style of western. Most traditional western fans (Wayne, Ford) don't like the spaghetti westerns that much. It's understandable.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> i know, but that taunting voice of Ben's, always calling Howie out on his

> true motivations, was stilled forever. it's easier to let go of a corpse than

> a smart mouthed prisoner, don't you think?

>

> But it's easier to bring a dead man to town for cash than a live one.

>

 

well, i guess then it goes both ways. it's easier to let go

of a dead man, too. i'm just not that wowed by the ending

of *the naked spur*. i find the movie up to that point really good

and even though the ending isn't as impressive to me, it doesn't

diminish the rest of the film for me. i guess big "pay offs" are not

always that important to me if i've enjoyed the ride. sometimes

the desitnation isn't as important as the journey, to me.

 

>

> It's a different style of western. Most traditional western fans (Wayne, Ford) don't like the spaghetti westerns that much. It's understandable.

 

but i like some foreign language films.

[FrankGrimes]

well, i guess then it goes both ways. it's easier to let go of a dead man, too.

 

It's easy money for Kemp. It's there for the taking. It's clear sailing. But Lina makes him see the truth.

 

i'm just not that wowed by the ending of the naked spur.

 

All of the characters' fates (ends) are strong ones. They fit the characters, too. Lots of hurt and pain. Ride Lonesome is basically a cleansing for Brigade. That was the point of the film. I know we get a "redemptive" end for Boone, but that feels shallow.

 

i find the movie up to that point really good and even though the ending isn't as impressive to me, it doesn't diminish the rest of the film for me. i guess big "pay offs" are not always that important to me if i've enjoyed the ride. sometimes the desitnation isn't as important as the journey, to me.

 

Usually, a strong ending saves a weaker film for me or a weak ending diminishes a strong film. A film like Ride Lonesome is built on a coming showdown. That's the entire film... with the lone exception of an interloper possibly sticking a guy in the back. That's where we are being led. The showdown left me feeling empty and the other part ended up being an empty threat.

 

With that being my beef, I still liked the film because I love the mood and Randolph Scott. The imagery of the tree and fire were also impressive. That was "classic western." And it's not like I rank the film lowly on my westerns list:

 

30. The Far Country

31. The Furies

32. Seven Men from Now

33. Rancho Notorious

34. The Tall T

35. Vera Cruz

36. The Gunfighter

37. Ride Lonesome

38. Fort Apache

39. The Man from Laramie

40. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

 

I LOVE the ending to The Gunfighter, by the way.

 

but i like some foreign language films.

 

It's not about foreign-language films. I'm talking westerns. Traditional western fans (Wayne, Ford) generally don't like spaghetti westerns. They usually don't like westerns like Johnny Guitar or Forty Guns. It's about sensibilities.

[MissGoddess]

>

> It's easy money for Kemp. It's there for the taking. It's clear sailing. But Lina makes him see the truth.

>

 

i suppose so. a little bit of a fast switch, then.

 

> All of the characters' fates (ends) are strong ones. They fit the characters, too. Lots of hurt and pain. Ride Lonesome is basically a cleansing for Brigade. That was the point of the film. I know we get a "redemptive" end for Boone, but that feels shallow.

>

 

you say that because they all end violently!

 

>

> Usually, a strong ending saves a weaker film for me or a weak ending diminishes a strong film. A film like Ride Lonesome is built on a coming showdown. That's the entire film... with the lone exception of an interloper possibly sticking a guy in the back. That's where we are being led. The showdown left me feeling empty and the other part ended up being an empty threat.

>

 

weak endings don't bother me as much. i find annoying or pointlessly tragic endings a pain but it rarely ruins the whole movie for me.

 

> With that being my beef, I still liked the film because I love the mood and Randolph Scott. The imagery of the tree and fire were also impressive. That was "classic western." And it's not like I rank the film lowly on my westerns list:

>

> 30. The Far Country

> 31. The Furies

> 32. Seven Men from Now

> 33. Rancho Notorious

> 34. The Tall T

> 35. Vera Cruz

> 36. The Gunfighter

> 37. Ride Lonesome

> 38. Fort Apache

> 39. The Man from Laramie

> 40. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

>

 

well, there's no way i'd rank it above fort apache.

 

 

> I LOVE the ending to The Gunfighter, by the way.

>

 

that one was a surprise. the searchers and liberty valance

feature my favorite endings in westerns (big surprise).

 

> It's not about foreign-language films. I'm talking westerns. Traditional western fans (Wayne, Ford) generally don't like spaghetti westerns. They usually don't like westerns like Johnny Guitar or Forty Guns. It's about sensibilities.

 

that certainly is true of me, though i did enjoy forty guns for the most part. johnny guitar

is more of a curiosity for me. you should see *the bravados* which was so influential

on leone and spaghetti westerns.

[FrankGrimes]

i suppose so. a little bit of a fast switch, then.

 

I thought the relationship between Kemp and Lina had been bubbling. He was basically a lost soul who had been dead for years and Lina saves him and brings him back to life.

 

you say that because they all end violently!

 

That's because they were so blinded by their greedy obsessions! Boone is the same as all of them but he never has to face and conquer his greedy obsessiveness. Brigade does it for him.

 

weak endings don't bother me as much. i find annoying or pointlessly tragic endings a pain but it rarely ruins the whole movie for me.

 

You want sappy endings!

 

well, there's no way i'd rank it above fort apache.

 

And there's a film where the second half of the film completely saves it for me. Without that mesmerizing finish, I'd really dislike the film.

 

There's no silly dancing in Ride Lonesome! That's a HUGE plus.

 

that one was a surprise. the searchers and liberty valance

feature my favorite endings in westerns (big surprise).

 

I don't like the ending to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. It turns boring to me after Valance is killed. Yet, where does it rank on my western list? Third.

 

that certainly is true of me, though i did enjoy forty guns for the most part. johnny guitar

is more of a curiosity for me.

 

Traditional western fans may like those two films, but it's mighty rare to find them loved.

 

you should see the bravados which was so influential on leone and spaghetti westerns.

 

I read the small blurb about the film and it sounds terrific. The Gunfighter was a surprising King/Peck western that packs a punch, so I probably should check out The Bravados.

[MissGoddess]

> I thought the relationship between Kemp and Lina had been bubbling. He was basically a lost soul who had been dead for years and Lina saves him and brings him back to life.

>

 

i never really found their "relationship" interesting or real.

 

> That's because they were so blinded by their greedy obsessions! Boone is the same as all of them but he never has to face and conquer his greedy obsessiveness. Brigade does it for him.

>

 

I didn't see Boone that way. I thought he was getting tired and ready to settle down.

He wanted to stop the running from the law.

 

> You want sappy endings!

>

 

when appropriate, yes!

 

> And there's a film where the second half of the film completely saves it for me. Without that mesmerizing finish, I'd really dislike the film.

>

 

"dislike"???? "dislike"????? "dislike"???? why did you bother replying.

 

> There's no silly dancing in Ride Lonesome! That's a HUGE plus.

>

 

The dancing in Fort Apache is NOT silly.

 

> I don't like the ending to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. It turns boring to me after Valance is killed. Yet, where does it rank on my western list? Third.

>

 

are you crazy? the ending is GREAT because it underlines exactly what that Rancid is: phony; a failure as a man and a husband and he'll never have to pay for it because someone else did.

 

>

> Traditional western fans may like those two films, but it's mighty rare to find them loved.

>

 

i find it difficult to love anything lacking heart.

 

>

> I read the small blurb about the film and it sounds terrific. The Gunfighter was a surprising King/Peck western that packs a punch, so I probably should check out The Bravados.

 

it's very strong. i have it recorded and have begun watching.

[FrankGrimes]

i never really found their "relationship" interesting or real.

 

It's not in your face, but it's there. Both are lost in their own ways and each is hurting in their own ways. What makes their relationship so fascinating to me is that Kemp is Lina's captor. There is a serious trust issue between the two because of that. It's very interesting.

 

I didn't see Boone that way. I thought he was getting tired and ready to settle down.

He wanted to stop the running from the law.

 

I believe he's an opportunist, ala Roy (Ralph Meeker) in The Naked Spur.

 

when appropriate, yes!

 

You need to be appropriately spanked!

 

The dancing in Fort Apache is NOT silly.

 

It is, too!

 

are you crazy? the ending is GREAT because it underlines exactly what that Rancid is: phony; a failure as a man and a husband and he'll never have to pay for it because someone else did.

 

But the film loses its energy. The focus turns to Ranse and politics. That's boring to me.

 

i find it difficult to love anything lacking heart.

 

I don't have a heart, so it bothers me none!

 

it's very strong. i have it recorded and have begun watching.

 

I just ordered the DVD.

[MissGoddess]

> It's not in your face, but it's there. Both are lost in their own ways and each is hurting in their own ways. What makes their relationship so fascinating to me is that Kemp is Lina's captor. There is a serious trust issue between the two because of that. It's very interesting.

>

 

it was too muted to "captivate" me on any level. and i've never really

thought much of janet's character. that's the weakest part of the movie

for me. she's okay, just not given much to do. more than karen steele,

though.

 

> I believe he's an opportunist, ala Roy (Ralph Meeker) in The Naked Spur.

>

 

there is that in him, yes, but there is good stuff too. roy had NOTHING redeeming

whatsoever within him. he was thoroughly venal, like billy. he was a dishonorably

discharged rapist.

 

> The dancing in Fort Apache is NOT silly.

>

> It is, too!

>

 

Definitely NOT.

 

> But the film loses its energy. The focus turns to Ranse and politics. That's boring to me.

>

 

"loses energy" indeed. such nonsense. this isn't a chidish "shoot em up". the focus isn't on rance and politics it's on the PRICE being paid. but you ARE a ransom stoddard so no wonder you don't like seeing him shown up for what he wasn't.

 

> I don't have a heart, so it bothers me none!

>

 

truer words!

 

> it's very strong. i have it recorded and have begun watching.

>

> I just ordered the DVD.

 

great!

[FrankGrimes]

it was too muted to "captivate" me on any level.

 

I understand. I don't think Mann wanted the focus to be on a romance between Kemp and Lina. That would have changed the overall story. Still, it's very present. It reminds me of Man of the West, in this regard.

 

and i've never really thought much of janet's character. that's the weakest part of the movie

for me. she's okay, just not given much to do. more than karen steele, though.

 

Lina is the healer. She cares. She worries about Ben, the horse, and Kemp. She's very protective. She's a very good woman, really.

 

there is that in him, yes, but there is good stuff too. roy had NOTHING redeeming

whatsoever within him. he was thoroughly venal, like billy. he was a dishonorably

discharged rapist.

 

What about Boone's crimes? And do you think Boone would have left Brigade take Billy in for money?

 

I do believe Boone is definitely a better man than Roy. I say this because of how each treats the woman they are around. And Boone's saying Whit is his partner is another plus for him.

 

"loses energy" indeed. such nonsense. this isn't a chidish "shoot em up". the focus isn't on rance and politics it's on the PRICE being paid.

 

I understand the ending and appreciate why it's there. It's just, to me, it's on the boring side compared to the rest of the film. I like the "train" scene, though. That was very good.

 

but you ARE a ransom stoddard so no wonder you don't like seeing him shown up for what he wasn't.

 

Who wants a cactus rose when you can have a real rose?!

[MissGoddess]

>

> I understand. I don't think Mann wanted the focus to be on a romance between Kemp and Lina. That would have changed the overall story. Still, it's very present. It reminds me of Man of the West, in this regard.

>

 

that's a good comparison. though i like the stuff between coop and julie london more, it felt more mature. well, julie was a woman, and lina is a little more like renee in the far country, only with less to do.

 

>

> Lina is the healer. She cares. She worries about Ben, the horse, and Kemp. She's very protective. She's a very good woman, really.

>

 

oh yes i agree with all that, i was referring to her amount of screen time. her scenes with stewart seemed too brief. mann is not always for lingering on moments, and I admit i like to soak in a feeling, to have time to really let what is happening sink in before a cut or a dissolve.

 

>

> What about Boone's crimes? And do you think Boone would have left Brigade take Billy in for money?

>

 

you don't get told what he did, which in western movie vernacular usually means, in an important character anyway, that whatever the crimes were they weren't as venal as the other guy's (in this case, billy).

 

> I do believe Boone is definitely a better man than Roy. I say this because of how each treats the woman they are around. And Boone's saying Whit is his partner is another plus for him.

>

 

that's why i feel the way i do.

 

> I understand the ending and appreciate why it's there. It's just, to me, it's on the boring side compared to the rest of the film. I like the "train" scene, though. That was very good.

>

 

there is nothing boring about it.

 

> Who wants a cactus rose when you can have a real rose?!

 

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....