Western Movie Rambles

[MissGoddess]

marvelous maven-stuff, cinemAVA! I'm so glad to see you on the trail here

and that you liked *the bravados* ... loved your opening salvo with all those

classic Peck roles...

 

i hope to post more in reply later, but want you and movieman-of-the-west

to know i really enjoyed your comments. this movie impressed me.

[laffite]

>When a man in a grey flannel suit meets you on the beach at say...twelve o'clock high, you might be spellbound by the sight of him. I don't think you want to risk a duel in the sun with him when he is on a Roman holiday of revenge. Take the omen. Just turn around, you can pirouette or arabesque...pack up your guns of Navarone because only the valiant..actually no one is safe from this beloved infidel. Not even a mockingbird.

 

Whew, you tied all that together rather well. I am practically spellbound.

 

EDIT: Oops, you beat me to it (i.e., spellbound). You're just to good Mave

 

>"I'm going to find them if it's the last thing I do."

 

I winced a little at that. But he still said it well.

 

>And this is basically a death sentence for these four bandits.

 

Well, three anyway.

 

>What was chilling to me was after shooting down the hostage's horse, he tells the girl he won't make her walk...she can come right up here and sit next to him on his horse. Truly, that made me go "Oh no. Ewww."

 

I think Emma gave out a gasp as well. What was chilling to me, in retrospect, was Douglas' assertion that Butler "wouldn't hurt a fly."

 

>Does it matter if you make someone pay for something they didn't do...when you know they did other things equally as egregious? Should he lose sleep for killing men who were about to hang in the morning anyway? It's up to each of us to decide. If you follow the letter of the law you may get one answer and if you follow the spirit of the law...of justice, you may come up with another answer. Yes Jim Douglas will have to live with what he did to men who were innocent of the crime he thought they committed. But wasn't justice served?

 

The law was satisfied and justice served since these men were sentenced to be hanged. But the problem with saying yes to that in Douglas' case is figuring out to what extent it is simply a rationalization (in one's own mind). If I am to understand that Douglas has a conscience, intellectual honesty, and a degree of humanity, all of which had been conspicuously absent up to this point, then I accept and admire his refusal to invoke the palliative of simply saying that Justice had been served.

 

Edited by: laffite on Nov 6, 2010 11:29 AM

[laffite]

>Hey, I watched a Western.

 

So did I?and so I have been?of late. Not the norm for me. But since frequenting the campfire chats around here I have indulged. Just finished *Jake Wade and the Law* with Robert Taylor and Richard Widmark (and a host of the usual bad guys) and so far this has been the least satisfying to date. The premise is strange and I have problems with?but never mind for now. But, uh, has anyone out there seen that one? I liked *Vengeance Valley*, *The Bravados*, and *Rio Bravo* much better (the only ones I have seen in the current spree).

 

I hadn?t seen *Rio Bravo* in many years and remembered only Dean Martin stooping to at the spittoon for hooch money. I didn?t even realize that this was the opening scene. The film has staying power. Since viewing it I have had thoughts coursing through (what?s left of) my brain and am thinking of doing a little ramble on it (if there is a concerted hue and cry opposing this, I understand. I will desist because I am a confirmed coward ). Not that anything more needs to be said. I imagine that Rio has been analyzed, re-analyzed, further rehashed, dissected, and otherwise talked to death here and everywhere for ages?but I would not claim to shed any further light on it?it would simply be a personal reaction (Is that what a ramble is?) that has crystallized almost after the fact. I have enjoyed mulling it over almost as much as the actual viewing. It is not a flawless film by any means but it is a big, fat, blustery show and seems to have a little of everything. I am not a John Wayne fan but the door to a new view on this is ajar?and that?s the least of what I like about this film.

 

Edited by: laffite on Nov 6, 2010 2:12 PM

[movieman1957]

I've seen "The Law and Jake Wade" and it is not all that great. I like Widmark in westerns but this one is a bit odd.

 

"Rio Bravo" has been chatted on (certainly in this very thread) but new comments are always welcome. Keep it close by.

[fredbaetz]

I agree with you about "The Law and Jake Wade". It was just OK. The director John Sturges was no slouch to the western, "Backlash" again with Widmark, "The Magnificent Seven", "Last Train From Gun Hill" and "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral" among others, but for some reason this one just didn't work for me. Good actors, especially Widmark and beautifully photographed lots of action. BUT......

[fredbaetz]

Double Post.

 

Edited by: fredbaetz on Nov 7, 2010 1:43 AM

[lzcutter]

Lafitte,

 

Ramble away on *Rio Bravo* (one of my faves). I look forward to reading what you have to say about it!

[lzcutter]

double post, sorry

 

Edited by: lzcutter on Nov 7, 2010 8:47 AM

[rohanaka]

Miss Maven says: Hey, I watched a Western

 

Monsieur Laffite replies: So did I?and so I have been?of late

 

And John T wonders:

 

 

Meanwhile, Rohanaka exclaims: WOO HOO!!!!

 

I love seeing you folks over here on the western side of town!!! (and PS: I only WISH I had seen the Bravados.. I have been enjoying reading about it though) Thanks everybody for giving me yet ANOTHER movie to look forward to watching sometime.

 

As for the other films mentioned.. I l-o-v-e LOVE Rio Bravo.. not my MOST fave Duke western.. but one of my most faves for sure. (and likely tied w/ Only Angels Have Wings for my most fave Hawks film.. MAYBE)

 

Anyway.. Mr Pirate.. feel free to chime in on that one anytime. I remember the chat we had on it.. it was a fun ramble for sure.. but I agree w/ the other folks.. new thoughts are always welcome.

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 7, 2010 4:25 PM

[fxreyman]

Well some of you have asked me about my trips out west here and wondered about any pictures I might have to share with you. Some of these pictures were of areas where some pretty darn popular films have been made.

 

I have a few from this past September and a year ago in October.

 

Hopefully I can get these pictures to work....

 

so here goes:

 

This first picture was taken above the tiny town of Ouray, Colorado on the "Million Dollar" highway. Early in the morning looking north. The town is known as Little Switzerland because it is surrounded on three sides by 13,000 foot peaks. Annie and I have traveled to this small town several times and is about two hours north of Durango, Colorado in the southwest corner of the state. On the left side of the photo are some of those 13,000 foot peaks. If you take a jeep tour over these peaks which are west of town you will end up in Telluride.

Just north of Ouray is the small town of Ridgway. Ridgway was the epicenter for the filming of Fort Smith in 1969's True Grit. Ouray's town hall served as the courthouse as well in the same movie.

 

 

The next picture was taken about an hour or so after the first picture above. This is a pull over on the "Million Dollar" highway just south of the mining town of Silverado. These peaks are a mixture of 13,000 foot and 14,000 foot mountains of the San Juan range.

 

 

The next picture was taken in October of 2009. Both Annie and I traveled up to Silverton from Durango on the narrow gauge railway. That was a blast. Off to the right and below the train (out of view) there was a five-hundred foot drop off into the Animas river canyon.

 

The train was featured in another 1969 film, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. It takes 3-1/2 hours to make the 45-mile trip from Durango to Silverton. Then there is a 2 hour layover in Silverton then you reboard the train for the return trip to Durango. It is basically an all-day trip.

 

 

On the same trip, but before we were in Durango, we stopped for a few days in Sedona, Arizona. Beautiful place to visit with the stunning red rock formations. We took a six hour jeep tour of the area. We climbed up and over huge boulders and traveled up this long road up above the valley floor to take the following picture:

 

 

In the early 2000's Annie and I traveled to Yellowstone. This is a picture of us standing on an overlook of the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. One of the most spectacular places I have ever seen.

 

 

I have many more pictures to share, and with a lot of time off coming in mid-December, I hope to add more here when I can. I have quite a few of another special place.... Monument Valley.

 

Edited by: fxreyman on Nov 7, 2010 8:50 PM

 

Edited by: fxreyman on Nov 7, 2010 8:51 PM

 

Edited by: fxreyman on Nov 7, 2010 8:52 PM

 

Edited by: fxreyman on Nov 7, 2010 8:53 PM

[MissGoddess]

how wonderful to see all those places in reality, rey. thank you for sharing the pictures with us.

[rohanaka]

Hiya Rey.. thanks for posting these. Way cool.

 

I once (way back in the very late 80's) drove w/ my brother and some friends from Kansas City to Telluride for a Bluegrass festival.. I love that whole area. I wish we could have traveled around a bit and seen even MORE of it than we got to. It was a pretty quick trip so we did not really get to do much more than look as we drove past everything.. but BOY was it gorgeous when we got there. Our trip was over way too soon.. but I have always remembered how nice it was out there in those mountains.

 

Thanks again for posting.

[laffite]

 

Since I?ve been frequenting the campfire talks in these parts of late, my 10-gallon hat nearly fell off when I noticed this little piece on NetF. My curiosity got plumb out of control because of the possibility of not only seeing magnificent Myrna in a Western but the added phenomena of actually seeing her on a horse. You MyrnaPhiles out there can probably come up with an instance or two?but I can?t?and furthermore I had trouble conjuring up a picture of that?imagine, Myrna on a horse.

 

 

She plays Carmelita, a senorita who sings in a cantina.

 

One day in walks El Malo, a bandido with a price on his head. But he has a touch of the caballero about him. When he espies Carmelita he is at once smitten.

 

 

As you can see, he likes her very much. Problem is, he has just been trying to get rid of another senorita by telling her that being a bandido and women ?don?t mix.? So much for that. El Malo has a sidekick who throughout this 59-minute movie (made in 1930) gets guns and watches stolen by still another senorita so that we are constantly reminded of this credo of the bandidos.

 

 

We see she might be heading for trouble. She sings a little song for him. Will she be the woman who?ll bring him down?

 

 

She does, in fact, seem to like him a bit. El Malo sends a suitor to Carmelita packing and dances a Tango Argentine with her. He tells her he wants to live with her in the casa she tells him about. They have a conversation where she speaks in a sort of broken English with the idea of sounding like a real senorita, which is dreadful but she sounds so cute you don?t care. She doesn?t know he?s the infamous El Malo, BTW.

 

 

She does a little cantina dance for him and we can see where things are headed. But what will she do when she finds out who he is?

 

*SPOILER*

 

In a dull subplot El Malo does something good by trapping another bandit (not a bandido ) and so he has the look of the hero. The previous day he had told the sheriff that he would bring El Malo to the town (they don?t recognize him) and when he does so it?s a big joke because after revealing his identity he says, ?But I didn?t say I would stay, hahahahaha,? whereupon Carmelita, appalled, tells him that she cannot live with a bandido, sorry about that. El Malo is crushed and begs Carmelita to change her mind. Letting his guard down, it then so happens that?Oh heck, you don?t want to hear the end but I?ll give you a hint you don?t need. She, of course, changes her mind and there is sort ?happily ever after? conclusion and everybody is happy (except the sheriff).

 

I had originally thought (when ordering) that this movie was made in 1936 which would have been curious since by that time she was Nora and probably wouldn?t need to make some generic western. But it was readily apparent that it was an early talky, not only by her facial appearance, but by the grainy images and the draggy, halting dialogue. No matter, it is great fun.

 

Oh, so did I see my Myrna on a horse?

 

Well, sort of?

 

 

She is _supposed_ to be on a horse with her bandido (if you look closely you can see him in the darkness), meaning she is side saddle perhaps. But it could be that she could simply be standing on something so as to only appear to be on a horse. Did she tell the director, ?I?m not sitting on no stinking horse.? I hate to admit this but she might even be _meant to be standing_ there next to the horse and that would mean that I have still not seen Myrna on a horse (sigh).

 

In any case, if you're ever riding the Rio Grande and espy a bandido on a white horse with cantina senorita riding side saddle, you might very well know who they are.

[movieman1957]

To my eye she looks to be on the horse.

[FrankGrimes]

THE BRAVADOS SPOILED

 

Howdy, Cowboy Chris -- I found the religious aspects much more in the front then "Hell's Hinges" (I almost forgot what movie we were debating that topic over.) At least when there is no religious figure involved. Lord, I hate getting old.

 

The religiosity in The Bravados didn't bother me like it did in Hell's Hinges. I felt Hell's Hinges was a "conversion" film. It was telling you to follow "Him." I never got that sense in The Bravados. For The Bravados to be similar, Jim (Gregory Peck) would have to "see the light" after a life of not seeing it. I did like the early hint of guilt by Jim when he first sees the padre (Andrew Duggan).

 

I also liked what the padre (Andrew Duggan) says here:

 

 

He doesn't tell us to pray, he says "some people think." I think that's wonderful.

 

One thing that did strike me was the religious aspect of the film especially early on. A town ready to have its first hanging is all about going to church the night before.

 

And that's always been a problem I have with religion. I don't believe the two square. I believe many twist religion to fit their beliefs. We're always trying to make the modern fit the ancient. People like the Amish truly try while most really look to twist. The faith doesn't seem to be strong enough, hence the need for violence.

 

From Josefa's imploring Douglass to speak to "another lady" to help him.

 

Yes, that was a heavy hint. And we see that lady a couple times in the film.

 

The guard asking to get off early to go to church and then offering a prayer for the gang. Well meaning but very naive.

 

I liked that.

 

The most striking part for me as the church service and the choir dominating the sound/music part of this scene while the gang breaks out of jail and kills the guard. In a kind of odd way it reminded me of the scene in "The Godfather" when the baby is being christened while Pacino's men are wiping out his enemies.

 

Very good! That's an excellent comparison. And I did find it interesting that the evil ones wait for the good ones to go to church to break out.

 

Peck comes back to his faith only when he finds out his mistake. The guilt is overwhelming.

 

He attempted to do so before because of Josefa (Joan Collins) but he was feeling the guilt while in the church.

 

I find the town's reaction to him odd as they don't care that he made this mistake (not that they didn't have it coming because they did) they seem happy he relieved them of their burden of disposing these men. From their perspective there is nothing to forgive. He must come to terms with his justice being wrong and forgiving himself.

 

The ending is very good. He's treated as a "messiah" when he's not. He was acting on personal revenge, not on his caring for others.

 

I liked the feeling I personally got when everyone cheers him. It's very much in line with... you guessed it, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. The town believes he did it for them. Little do they know. So here he is a hero yet he really isn't. In fact, one of the men gets away. So he's a semi-hero, like Ranse. Print the legend.

 

My favorite words in the film are delivered by the Father:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's beautiful.

 

And I absolutely loved that the hero of the film says this:

 

 

Stunning. Does anyone know of any other heroes who have done this?

 

And that's Gregory Peck. From Cape Fear to To Kill a Mockingbird to The Bravados. He's an impressive hero.

[movieman1957]

Thanks for the response. Isn't it odd, but interesting, how we have looked at the same two films and found the religious aspect completely reversed?

 

I may be more making the point about the way Peck is being persuaded and the religious content of the film, directed, at the viewer or not, than what I saw as a character driven directive in "Hell's Hinges." It makes this interesting though.

 

>I believe many twist religion to fit their beliefs. We're always trying to make the modern fit the ancient. People like the Amish truly try while most really look to twist. The faith doesn't seem to be strong enough, hence the need for violence.

 

I'll agree with the first sentence but politely disagree with the second. For my own view the ancient can fit very well with the modern. "Twisting" has been going on as long as their have been people and I doubt we'll come to the end of it either.

 

I also like the fact that Peck has to deal with how he has gone about his "work." He takes responsibility for it. He knows he'll have to deal with it. The outcome, however justified from the town's sake, isn't enough to assuage his guilt. Admitting his error would be the first thing to do to forgive himself. (Yet another religious aspect.)

 

Ah, "Liberty Valance" again. Interesting but somehow not surprising?

[CineMaven]

Myrna Loy on a horse??? Pshaw!!! She was made for a Martini!!!

[CineMaven]

The ending is very good. He's treated as a "messiah" when he's not. He was acting on personal revenge, not on his caring for others.

 

Grimesy, what are your thoughts on this:

 

The bandits were being hanged for another crime they committed. Peck kills them (except Silva) for the crime he believes they committed. They were going to hang anyway. So? Who cares?

 

I liked the feeling I personally got when everyone cheers him. It's very much in line with... you guessed it, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. The town believes he did it for them. Little do they know. So here he is a hero yet he really isn't. In fact, one of the men gets away. So he's a semi-hero, like Ranse. Print the legend.

 

HA! Little do they care. I do think he is a hero who?s not really the hero...their hero...nor hero to himself.

 

And that's Gregory Peck. From Cape Fear to To Kill a Mockingbird to The Bravados. He's an impressive hero.

 

After seeing this film, I have to say he?s become a towering image in my head. We see him be violent. See him (so-called) go down to their level. And then see he admits he was wrong. See Atticus is the ?noble hero. And in ?Cape Fear? he?s the ?justified? hero protecting his family.I guess I like my heroes getting their hands and conscience dirty. He probably felt like a fraud. I hope he finds peace...those were berry bad men.

 

I also like the fact that Peck has to deal with how he has gone about his "work." He takes responsibility for it. He knows he'll have to deal with it. The outcome, however justified from the town's sake, isn't enough to assuage his guilt. Admitting his error would be the first thing to do to forgive himself. (Yet another religious aspect.)

 

A real hero admits his mistake especially if he admits it to himself. Just b'cuz you don't get caught...doesn't mean you're not wrong.

 

Bush...Junior should look into that. But I'll wager he has lost no sleep over his actions.

[FrankGrimes]

I hope to reply to Movieman and Laffite when I get some time, probably tonight.

 

Howdy, Lively Gal -- The bandits were being hanged for another crime they committed. Peck kills them (except Silva) for the crime he believes they committed. They were going to hang anyway. So? Who cares?

 

Only himself and if you believe in a higher power. As the priest says, most would look to justify their actions by saying, "they were to hang, anyways." That gives you the "freedom" to kill for any reason. It's a wonderful western story. A very unique one. To actually pose the question, "what if you're wrong?" Terrific.

 

HA! Little do they care. I do think he is a hero who?s not really the hero...their hero...nor hero to himself.

 

You're brilliant with words.

 

So he's Ranse Stoddard (James Stewart).

 

After seeing this film, I have to say he?s become a towering image in my head. We see him be violent. See him (so-called) go down to their level. And then see he admits he was wrong. See Atticus is the ?noble hero. And in ?Cape Fear? he?s the ?justified? hero protecting his family.I guess I like my heroes getting their hands and conscience dirty. He probably felt like a fraud. I hope he finds peace...those were berry bad men.

 

See... smooth. The reason I included Cape Fear is because of what Sam (Gregory Peck) chooses to do at the end. Instead of looking to kill Max Cady (Robert Mitchum), thus lowering himself to his level of hate, he tells him he's sending him back to prison. That's very Peckian, in terms of characters. I love the end to The Gunfighter, as well. That's another good King/Peck western. Heck, his name is Jim in that one and in The Big Country... which is another great "Peck conscience" film.

 

A real hero admits his mistake especially if he admits it to himself. Just b'cuz you don't get caught...doesn't mean you're not wrong.

 

Bush...Junior should look into that. But I'll wager he has lost no sleep over his actions.

 

The priest's words. The priest's words.

[CineMaven]

I. was. wrong.

 

It takes a big person to admit that...to him(her)self.

 

Take care, Grimesy.

[rohanaka]

Hello there Pirate Dude.. thanks for the fun post on Myrna and her horse!! What a lovely senorita she was!! (that would be Myrna.. ha... not the horse!! ha.. though it IS lovely too, I am sure!)

 

I am glad to see you diving in to the westerns, sir. And I like you are finding the "rarer" finds, too.. way cool. ROTRG is not one I have heard of before, but it sounds as it if were a fun one.

 

OH.. and speaking of "El Malo".... PS: Grey Dude!!! (HA!)

 

You (and others) have a nice chat going on w/ The Bravados. Very interesting post, sir.. and the screencaps you chose have really piqued my curiosity even more.

 

This one is on my wanna see list for sure.

[laffite]

*Cinemaven:* writes:

 

*Myrna Loy on a horse??? Pshaw!!! She was made for a Martini!!!*

 

Thank you. My curiosity vis-a-vis ML on a horse is validated. I'm not convinced, however, that she was _on_ that horse ... but maybe.

 

"At any rate, I'm not a cowgirl. You can make that martini now!"

 

*Rohanaka* writes:

 

*I am glad to see you diving in to the westerns, sir. And I like you are finding the "rarer" finds, too.. way cool. ROTRG is not one I have heard of before, but it sounds as it if were a fun one.*

 

Thank you for your nice comments. A fun post, exactly. And a fun movie too. It's not the best ever made but it should be seen by anyone with the least liking for Myrna. It's only 59 minutes of your life and you get to see Myrna talk like a senorita and dance the Argentine Tango. And you even get to see her on a horse...

 

...maybe.

 

[CineMaven]

It's so funny we doubt that (her being on a horse). Wasn't this redheaded gal born in Montana (Big Sky Country)??

[MissGoddess]

Mon Cher LAFFITE: Thank you for pointing out a Myrna western! I never have seen or heard of it! I'm sure she's adorable in it, based on those cute screencaps. And yes, she's a "Big Sky" girl alright, CinemAva.

 

If I may, zigzagging back to *Vengeance Valley*... a poster at another forum brought up an interesting comparison of this movie to Robert Mitchum/Eleanor Parker/George Harrison/George Peppard drama, *Home from the Hill*. Has anyone here who recently watched VV also seen HFTH, and what do you think? I do see paralells but I need to watch them both back-to-back with this idea in mind.

 

I bring it up here because even though HFTH is a little too modern to be a real western, it IS an interesting drama with the always magnetic Robert Mitchum that I think you all would enjoy, maybe even more than VV.

 

CinemAva, you in particular might enjoy *Home from the Hill* and its drama...if you haven't seen it, do check it out.

[kingrat]

Did anyone else see the restored version of THE BIG COUNTRY that aired yesterday on TCM? I only saw a few minutes, but the colors looked spectacular. This just might show up at the festival.