Western Movie Rambles

[JackFavell]

I haven't seen FA for a while, but I did see The Long Gray Line the other day, and Ford _always_ seems to link respect for past generations of soldiers with the teaching of headstrong young recruits. SO what your saying sounds right on to me.

[rohanaka]

SO what your saying sounds right on to me

 

Ha.... maybe I should hire you as my official interpreter... :-)

 

The Long Gray Line

 

Aw man... another painful reminder of my stupidity.. ha. I had TWO reminders given to me that this film was coming on.... and I missed it. I have not seen that one in a long while too... bah!!! (I still need to hire that private secretary I keep talking about too!! Ha)

 

But I am pretty sure I can get a copy though.. so I am not going to keep saying it.. Oh yes I am.... "O watta dope I yam". HA!

[MissGoddess]

Those are some very thought provoking observations on Col. Thursday, ladies. I wonder

if he is a martinet because he's one of a long line of "career soldiers" and he basically

learned his military conduct as part of the tradition of his forefathers, reinforced, no doubt,

at West Point. He seems a man very class conscious and is nonplussed to learn that

an Irishman, an "O'Rourke" (John Agar) should have graduated from his alma mater. When

he questions it, saying to Sgt. O'Rourke "I was under the impression only sons of holders of the Medal of Honor went to West Point by special appointment," Bond answers simply, "I

have that impression, too, Sir."

 

Score one for the Irish!

[JackFavell]

This to me is Thursday's real problem.... not the fact that he is a martinet (though that doesn't help). The innate bigotry of his character is at the core of the movie for me, and I think this is why I like the movie best of all the trilogy.

 

I can totally see him coming from a long line of east coast prigs, who pride themselves on their military achievements and the fact that they went to school with other east coast prigs and intermarried and on and on.....

 

When confronted with a possible Irish son in law, Thursday is horrified at the prospect, though it is never said out loud (so true of east coast prejudice, it is very deep under the surface). He makes up excuses why O'Rourke should not be attending his daughter, but I think it is his basic fear of "those people". His bigotry is the escalating force in the Indian attack - he decides Futterman is OK, but Cochise is not even a man, therefore he can lie to him. He does not even bother with an excuse to try to eradicate the Apaches from the face of the earth. The regular soldiers are beneath contempt, and this is shown best when he and Wayne get into the big fight towards the end. When Wayne says, "I gave him my word", Thursday simply doesn't care about Wayne's code of honor because Wayne himself does not matter to him. He is not a person.

 

I am surprised that Fonda is so understated in this role. I can picture other actors digging in and playing Thursday riddled with germaphobic tendencies and snooty, condescending looks. But Fonda is so intense here, and so deadly quiet that I cannot figure out how he did it. He is pent up and tight... like a watchspring on the inside, but more like a block of wood on the outside. How does he do that?

 

Message was edited by: JackFavell

[HollywoodGolightly]

Wendy, I apologize for chiming in, as I've been mostly lurking in this thread. However you bring up a point that is extremely important. I honestly hadn't thought about the amount of anti-Irish prejudice that someone from the East Coast was likely to have at that point in time. I think there was still quite a bit.

 

Thanks for mentioning this excellent point!

 

And as for Fonda's range as an actor, he just leaves me speechless. He did this movie so shortly after working with Ford in The Fugitive, and those two performances of his couldn't possibly be more different.

 

Thanks again for that marvelous insight, hope you'll enjoy tonight's westerns (if you watch any of them).

[JackFavell]

>I honestly hadn't thought about the amount of anti-Irish prejudice that someone from the East Coast was likely to have at that point in time. I think there was still quite a bit.

 

Thanks. I find it interesting that Ford didn't make a bigger deal of this aspect, because it seriously is never mentioned at all, but I still think it is all too clear.

 

>hope you'll enjoy tonight's westerns (if you watch any of them).

 

Yes, I finally get to see Rio Bravo.....only a few weeks too late for the ramble, as usual....

[HollywoodGolightly]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> Thanks. I find it interesting that Ford didn't make a bigger deal of this aspect, because it seriously is never mentioned at all, but I still think it is all too clear.

>

 

In hindsight, it kind of goes well with the way he deals with prejudice against Native Americans in The Searchers. I guess he preferred subtlety, at least when dealing with certain themes.

 

> Yes, I finally get to see Rio Bravo.....only a few weeks too late for the ramble, as usual....

 

Never too late to ramble!

[JackFavell]

He may have been just being careful. The studio cut an entire scene from at least one of his earlier movies, a scene dealing with prejudice. He probably found ways to insert themes subtly without the studio being aware of it. It works to his benefit in this one.

 

Message was edited by: JackFavell

[MissGoddess]

Gosh, I've missed these rambles.

 

Wendy---you always managed to dig into the aspects of Ford I love most to explore.

 

The innate bigotry of his character is at the core of the movie for me, and I think this is why I like the movie best of all the trilogy.

 

I find it interesting that Ford didn't make a bigger deal of this aspect, because it seriously is never mentioned at all, but I still think it is all too clear.

 

Oh, dear Papps, this is one of the reasons I love him so...he never would stoop

to teaching anyone's grandmothers to suck eggs. He knew if there were those

in the audience perceptive enough to look for what was between the lines in

his movies, and who understand what he was saying about tolerance, about humanity,

about love, then he'd done his job well enough. He's the polar opposite to those who

try to make movies about prejudice today, with their sledgehammers and self-righteousness.

 

He shows up anit-Irish prejudice not just in Thursday, but in the AUDIENCE by basically

forcing them to not only accept but be amused by and have affection for Irish characters

that practically glory in stereotypical Irish behaviors! I love it! See this bunch of

rowdies here! Look at 'em! Fightin' and drinkin' and cursin' and rubbin' lace curtains in

your face---I dare ya not to like 'em! ha ha ha. The old fox.

 

And Thursday---a martinet, a bigot, a glory hound---but nope, the filmaker's going

to RESIST the pedestrian expectations of painting him as a cardboard villain. He's

going to make you find reasons to admire him because he's as much a part of your

past as Kirby is. So, Ford casts that paragon of straight arrow fairness and nobility,

Henry Fonda, in his first against-type performance (to my knowledge) and makes him

tread the character's rigid line carefully. This Thursday BELIEVES fully in his rightness,

he's not afraid, not hiding, not pretending and that's the beauty of the character. You

can hate him but you grudgingly have to credit that he is definite, and he can,

when least expected, make a human and humane decision to correct his previous

line of reasoning. Incredible.

 

I wish I could stay up all night rambling, but it's my bedtime.

 

Carry on!

[JackFavell]

Ah, me darlin' , THAT was beautifully put, and THAT is why I love John Ford....

 

Nighty night. I am going to go see about those crazy hats.....

[HollywoodGolightly]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> He may have been just being careful. The studio cut an entire scene from at least one of his earlier movies, a scene dealing with prejudice. He probably found ways to insert themes subtly without the studio being aware of it. It works to his benefit in this one.

>

> Message was edited by: JackFavell

 

Another good point, I guess they really had to be on their toes to avoid offending any censors.

[rohanaka]

This Thursday BELIEVES fully in his rightness,

he's not afraid, not hiding, not pretending and that's the beauty of the character. You

can hate him but you grudgingly have to credit that he is definite, and he can,

when least expected, make a human and humane decision to correct his previous

line of reasoning. Incredible.

 

 

Well put young'un.

 

And you and Jackie are on a roll w/ the whole "Irish" angle of the story too. Just another interesting layer to the entire package.

 

Sweet dreams.

[movieman1957]

You mention Fonda being understated but at times I think it is controlled rage. Even when he is going after his own men I always thought that he is one more response from losing it. When he asks, rather loudly, "Isn't there someone around here who knows how to obey an order?" I think that is beyond annoyance but just short of a coronary. He is a man on the edge. His education and background which he thinks will save him and the company but really leads to their demise.

 

He will have everything civilized. He must bring order to the fort but at what price?

 

Fonda is perfectly cast. If it were made ten years later William Holden might have been a good choice. As it is I am not sure who else could have done it as well.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}

> You mention Fonda being understated but at times I think it is controlled rage. Even when he is going after his own men I always thought that he is one more response from losing it. When he asks, rather loudly, "Isn't there someone around here who knows how to obey an order?" I think that is beyond annoyance but just short of a coronary. He is a man on the edge.

 

I completely agree with you, Chris. Controlled rage is absolutely right.... but the way he plays it is fascinating. The more rage he feels, the colder and more ramrod straight he gets... He is already mad when he gets to Fort Apache. He sees these "savages" (not the Apaches, the soldiers ) he is supposed to lead, and it just points up his inadequacies. I think Thursday is so afraid that he will be seen as a factotum or functionary that he cannot help himself. He WILL lead his men into a glorious battle By GOD, and he doesn't care if he takes the entire army with him. The men under him are simply pawns in a chess match. Thursday would rather wipe the board clean using these animalistic drunken men than admit that one of them was as good as he is. His rage is easily transferred into bloodlust.

 

> His education and background which he thinks will save him and the company but really leads >to their demise.

 

Again, Ford pits the ideas of "this is how we've always done it" against "this is the right thing for the situation at hand." like in *They Were Expendable*. But in this case, he embodies those ideas in two men....Fonda and Wayne. There couldn't be any two men who are more different in the world. This is the second movie to tap into that deep, deep sadness of Ford's, I think? He again examines failure in depth..... because Fonda could have been great leader, had he simply listened to his men, but his anger and bigotry truly kept him from the real greatness he longed for. He can have greatness in the history books, but not the love of his men. And in Fonda's portrayal, I see all that, and his realization of his mistake at the end. It's like *The Searchers* without the redemption.

 

> He will have everything civilized. He must bring order to the fort but at what price?

 

Thursday chooses tradition at the cost of his humanity, his soul. His soul is dead anyway, since his wife's passing......There is a cold, cold streak in Thursday, and I truly think he does not care if he lives or dies.

 

> Fonda is perfectly cast. If it were made ten years later William Holden might have been a good choice. As it is I am not sure who else could have done it as well.

 

That's an interesting choice. I think Holden could have done it too, but I like that chilled to the bone quality that Fonda has. Fonda does not care whether you like him or not. It's very interesting, because most actors do care, greatly. And this not caring is translated well into Thursday's not caring, because he feels his life is over anyway. He has invested everything he has left in glory, and making a name for himself; but on a human level, there is nothing really left for him. He is simply ready to die.

 

Message was edited by: JackFavell

[Maggie_mae]

Not a movie but I just watched a birthday tribute to Coop and it was wonderful up until the part where Clint Eastwood told about his affair with Pat Neal and how it tore his life apart. I don't know why but it broke my heart. I still have a lump in my throat. Maybe it brought back things in my past life, who knows.

Other than that part, it was a wonderful history of his movie and a bit of his private life. I recommend it highly for those of you who are Coop fans.

[coopsgirl]

I just got Pat Neal's autobiography and I don't have time to read it all right now so I just skipped around and read the parts about Gary and it is heartbreaking for all the parties involved. If it had just been a lusty affair it wouldn't be, but she deeply and desperately loved him and still does very much. Pat, his daughter Maria, and wife Rocky became friends in the late 70s-early 80s and I have a lot of respect and admiration for them for that. They were able to put their issues aside and come together which I think is a great lesson in forgiveness and a nice example of actually living out your religious beliefs instead of just giving lip service to them (they are all practicing Christians).

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Fordy Guns -- By the way, I can't wait---less than two weeks until the

release of TMWSLV with "extras"!

 

I'm going to pass on it since I already have it. I'm not ready to double-dip on all these

re-releases, like Psycho, Rear Window, Vertigo, 12 Angry Men,

High Noon, etc.

 

Yes, Ranse wa nudged by Doniphon for Hallie's sake

 

Nudged?

 

but he was enticed by his own desires---that sign, "Ransom Stoddard, Attorney-at-Law",

he liked that. I think this indicated his pride in words and titles and public approbation---in

a word, status.

 

I happen to agree with you with that. Ranse did like advertising his "importance." He was

a self-promoter.

 

He does want to raise the "status" of the little townspeople, but that speaks as much

to his contempt of them as they are as it does to any more generous feeling.

 

I disagree with that. I think he was genuine in wanting to help others to read and write.

 

Thank you for the pictures of Tom's back!

 

Are you going to stab him?

 

 

Isn't he though? He hasn't a trace of a sense of humor, which is one reason I

think Fonda is so good in the role.

 

Fonda is absolutely amazing. Fonda wasn't afraid to play unlikeable characters. I love

how he can play an unbending, rigid character like "Thursday" and then play the opposite

in films like The Ox-Bow Incident and 12 Angry Men. And how about Wayne?

He plays the understanding man in Fort Apache and the opposite in Red River.

 

You have a point about Abe...but the energy is slower and more circumspect, I don't

think Stoddard can be played that way---he needs to played with a nervous, erratic

quality at least in the flashbacks---he was a man intensely uncomfortable with who

and where he is and he may be the brainiac, the one trying to inculcate the rule

of law but emotionally he is irrational and reactive, while Tom, in contrast, is always

laid back and slower to react. You need a contrast of styles and energy and that's

why I think the casting works, setting aside quibbles about their ages.

 

That was excellent! I was wondering if we see "Ranse" because of James Stewart's

performance or the character as written. I don't believe Fonda could produce the kind of

emotional explosions that Jimmy gives us and this is why I don't think Fonda would fit

as "Ranse." But I could definitely see Fonda playing the intellectual Easterner who is

looking to bring civility to a wild western town.

 

Going back to Fort Apache, others have commented on how good Wardy

is in this, what did you think of the scenes Bond and Fonda shared? I was

very taken with the one when Thursday barges into the O'Rourke quarters and

Bond calls him on a point of etiquette/protocol. While it must have been

galling to such a rule stickler as Thursday to have it said he'd actually made

a faux pas, he did make his apologies. It's like Kathy says, he seems to only

think about the rules as they work for HIM, not for the good of the others.

 

That was a strong moment in the film. O'Rourke really had Thursday there and to

Thursday's great credit, he did swallow his pride and apologized for his stepping out

of line. He was true to the code. I certainly liked his strong emotions with his

daughter. He really did care about her.

 

One of the comical moments in the film that I think really worked is when Thursday

falls through the chair. He is knocked down a peg for just that moment. His daughter

could do this to him. She is the one who could reach him, and she ultimately does,

without her being there.

 

 

I see that Bunny Lake is Missing is airing this Sunday on TCM.

 

That's a good Preminger flick, too.

[MissGoddess]

I'm going to pass on it since I already have it. I'm not ready to double-dip on all these

re-releases, like Psycho, Rear Window, Vertigo, 12 Angry Men, High Noon, etc.

 

I haven't done so with other movies, but for my tippy top favorites, if they come with extras I've never seen, I am a sucker. I can give my copy away if I decide this new one is better. I'm

not sure about the aspect ratios, though. They're changing it up for the new release and I

already have trouble seeing the whole picture on my new TV.

 

I disagree with that. I think he was genuine in wanting to help others to read and write.

 

Well, I think he wanted to, sort of, but from a very patronizing place, not from good heartedness. From smugness. He definitnely thought he was better than everyone else---not to a positively odious degree, but it was there. "Have you ever seen a real rose, Hallie?" He didn't say that in a way to suggest he wanted to shower her with real roses, he said it in an almost incredulous way, like was she really that ignorant??

 

Are you going to stab him?

 

I would never stab him...someone else on the other hand...

 

Fonda is absolutely amazing. Fonda wasn't afraid to play unlikeable characters. I love

how he can play an unbending, rigid character like "Thursday" and then play the opposite

in films like The Ox-Bow Incident and 12 Angry Men. And how about Wayne?

He plays the understanding man in Fort Apache and the opposite in Red River.

 

Yes, indeed, both were excellent actors any way you slice it. Fonda was "an actor's

actor" and Wayne a movie star, but both could deliver the goods and entertain their

audience. That's the best I can say of any performer, including my most favorite

ones.

 

I certainly liked his strong emotions with his

daughter. He really did care about her.

One of the comical moments in the film that I think really worked is when Thursday

falls through the chair. He is knocked down a peg for just that moment. His daughter

could do this to him. She is the one who could reach him, and she ultimately does,

without her being there.

 

I believe this is one of the areas that permit the character to be seen as more human,

and it may be one of the main reasons I can't altogether write Thursday off as a

completely cold and heartless man. And no, oddly enough, it's not through his

treatment of Philadelphia that I read this, but in Philadelphia's behavior and attitude

toward him. Notice how perfectly sweet, happy and well adjusted she is---and spirited.

She is also unafraid of her father. She wants to avoid displeasing him, and knows

how particular he is about things and so she works hard to make his quarters as

comfortable and well ordered as he would want, but she doesn't hesitate for a

moment to follow her own feelings about young O'Rourke and stand up to her

father. And I like how she "handles" her father, not really taking anything he

says or does too seriously or personally. To me, her behavior with him on

the whole bespeaks a very healthy relationship and also tells me that he is

not at all "cold" or "heartless" with her the way he is with his men. She wouldn't

be so completely at ease with him if that were the case. She'd be nervous,

reserved, fearful of saying or doing anything wrong to upset him and that's just

not the case.

 

I believe Philadelphia's union with young O'Rourke also has a cute parallel to

the director's own marriage---he was a "rough Irishman" who married a genteel

daughter of good family.

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Fordy Guns -- Well, I think he wanted to, sort of, but from a very

patronizing place, not from good heartedness. From smugness. He definitnely thought

he was better than everyone else---not to a positively odious degree, but it was there.

 

I find it interesting how you feel the patronizing and smugness from Ranse more and I feel

it more from Doniphon, at least at the outset of the story.

 

"Have you ever seen a real rose, Hallie?" He didn't say that in a way to suggest he

wanted to shower her with real roses, he said it in an almost incredulous way, like

was she really that ignorant??

 

I think it was both a good and bad moment for Ranse. The good is that I think he was

excited to show Hallie the many different kinds of roses and "roses" in this world. She

had only known the cactus rose. I believe Ranse thought Hallie would benefit from being

exposed to more of life than what she had been to date.

 

The bad for Ranse is his usage of the word "real." He is basically dismissing the beauty

of the cactus rose. He doesn't understand the beauty of a cactus rose, the beauty of a

small community. Even Hallie falls victim to this. She eventually ends up longing for

home. The cactus rose is her real home. Maybe Ranse will come to understand

this in time, too. Sometimes simple is better.

 

And I do believe you are right, Ranse was being patronizing with the rose. He was

spitting on Doniphon's gift to Hallie.

 

I would never stab him...someone else on the other hand...

 

How many times must I tell you that Cowboy Chris is a good guy?

 

Yes, indeed, both were excellent actors any way you slice it. Fonda was "an actor's

actor" and Wayne a movie star, but both could deliver the goods and entertain their

audience. That's the best I can say of any performer, including my most favorite

ones.

 

Nicely said. I like how you said "an actor's actor" and a "movie star."

 

I believe this is one of the areas that permit the character to be seen as more human,

and it may be one of the main reasons I can't altogether write Thursday off as a

completely cold and heartless man. And no, oddly enough, it's not through his

treatment of Philadelphia that I read this, but in Philadelphia's behavior and attitude

toward him.

 

Wow! That's a terrific observation.

 

Notice how perfectly sweet, happy and well adjusted she is---and spirited.

She is also unafraid of her father. She wants to avoid displeasing him, and knows

how particular he is about things and so she works hard to make his quarters as

comfortable and well ordered as he would want, but she doesn't hesitate for a

moment to follow her own feelings about young O'Rourke and stand up to her

father. And I like how she "handles" her father, not really taking anything he

says or does too seriously or personally. To me, her behavior with him on

the whole bespeaks a very healthy relationship and also tells me that he is

not at all "cold" or "heartless" with her the way he is with his men. She wouldn't

be so completely at ease with him if that were the case. She'd be nervous,

reserved, fearful of saying or doing anything wrong to upset him and that's just

not the case.

 

Could Philadelphia's mother had played a big role in her being how she is? That's

something we wouldn't know. But you are most definitely right, Philadelphia does

feel comfortable around her father. She's not scared of him. She will speak up to

him, but you always get the feeling she respects him and wishes to do right by him.

Still, she has her own feelings and she's not afraid of them.

 

I believe Philadelphia's union with young O'Rourke also has a cute parallel to

the director's own marriage---he was a "rough Irishman" who married a genteel

daughter of good family.

 

Did you think "O'Rourke" was a "rough Irishman"?

 

I wasn't into Fort Apache all that much to start with the exception of Henry

Fonda's performance. He was brilliant. But the end of the film is one of my favorite of

Ford's. That certainly raised the value of the film for me.

[movieman1957]

>How many times must I tell you that Cowboy Chris is a good guy?

 

I certainly hope so. Kind of you to point that out.

 

I never took Ranse's comment about a real rose being a slam on Tom's gift. It just not the real thing. It does open up a new angle for me on that topic.

 

The school I did think was a bit of a prideful act. On the one hand I think helping was part of it but the bigger thing was that it solidified his "smartest guy in town" ranking. This must have pleased him. This also gives him a feeling of authority as he isn't doing much "lawyering" yet. (Not a real word but effective.)

 

Message was edited by: movieman1957

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Cowboy Chris -- I certainly hope so. Kind of you to point that out.

 

Miss G is stubborn. She just doesn't believe me. I'd watch yourself around her. She's

dangerous.

 

I never took Ranse's comment about a real rose being a slam on Tom's gift. It just not

the real thing. It does open up a new angle for me on that topic.

 

I've often said that Ranse didn't have his eye on Hallie, but the flower moment is one time

where I felt he was trying to impress her. Keep in mind, he was feeling really bad about

upsetting her earlier and he really wanted to make it up to her. But I did feel a little male

vs. male with the cactus rose vs. "real" rose.

 

I always think of Ranse as being the intellectual, white collar man with influence and

accomplishment. He's a worldly man. I think of Doniphon as being a simple blue collar

man who is comfortable with who he is and where he is. Some women like the one while

some like the other. I believe Hallie initially felt trapped with Tom but then ended up

longing for him in the end. I think both men and women sometimes go through this in life.

 

The love triangle in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is definitely one of the best

I've seen in film and I think it's one that should really appeal to women.

 

The school I did think was a bit of a prideful act. On the one hand I think helping was

part of it but the bigger thing was that it solidified his "smartest guy in town" ranking. This

must have pleased him. This also gives him a feeling of authority as he isn't doing

much "lawyering" yet. (Not a real word but effective.)

 

See, I just never felt that. I thought Ranse was genuine in his want to teach others. I saw

him as a father wanting to teach his children how to "ride a bike." There is definitely pride

in that, a good kind of pride. Is there power in teaching? Sure. But I really don't believe

Ranse was looking for prospective clients. I think he truly wanted to help the

community. He was serving them.

 

I must be Ranse's biggest defender.

[MissGoddess]

Make that Ranse's ONLY defender.

 

While I do think, yes, he likes the idea of exposing people to a wider world,

I still question the motives. I do so because of FORD and the source story.

I think the director deliberately kept things rather unspecified about Ranse's

motivations and that must be why different people have different views. Did

you read that review I posted? The author seems to think as you do.

 

Could Philadelphia's mother had played a big role in her being how she is? That's

something we wouldn't know.

 

I believe so, I need to watch the first part again to see if there was any hint in the

brief exchange between Philadelphia and...was it Mrs Collingwood? about her mother...

 

I feel Thursday was the one who was impacted the most by his wife's passing, maybe

subconsciously. He's not a reflective man so I don't see him mourning her consciously,

but she was his "softer" side I bet, I think. Philadelphia doesn't act like she remembers

her mother as clearly. I get the feeling she'd been dead a while. Do you or anyone else

remember better?

 

At any rate, I feel like or just imagine that Philadelphia has had the "looking after" of her

father for a while. She seems to know exactly how he'd want things done and arranged.

 

Did you think "O'Rourke" was a "rough Irishman"?

 

ha! No, not really, which is why I used the quotes. But I can see the Thursday family back East looking askance. It's his background they'd find "rough".

 

I wasn't into Fort Apache all that much to start with the exception of Henry

Fonda's performance. He was brilliant. But the end of the film is one of my favorite of

Ford's. That certainly raised the value of the film for me.

 

You really notice "endings" in movies alot. You even said once that the ending of Fritz

Lang's Fury really kept the movie low for you. I'm trying to think what movie endings

bother me or enthrall me that much that my opinion of the whole movie is shaded by them...

I tend to shut off movies that end poorly in my estimation.

[MissGoddess]

Atta boy, Chris! Don't let him try and fool you, you know I'd NEVER stab you!

You can't believe what a Philadelphia lawyer says---or a Harrisburg one. No wonder

he defends Rancid.

[movieman1957]

Hi April:

 

I would agree that the Thursdays have been on their own for some time but I feel the mother must have been around at least through most of Philadelphia's childhood. She appears to be enough of a young lady that there would have been some maternal influence involved. That's just guessing but it comes across to me that way as I recall.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}

> Hi April:

>

> I would agree that the Thursdays have been on their own for some time but I feel the mother must have been around at least through most of Philadelphia's childhood. She appears to be enough of a young lady that there would have been some maternal influence involved. That's just guessing but it comes across to me that way as I recall.

 

Howdy, again, Chris,

 

That's an excellent point. I do agree, Mrs. Thursday is more than a distant memory for

Philadelphia.

 

I also suspect she may have been sent to one of the fashionable girls schools of

the era, as many from her station and background would have been. She behaves in

a rather schoolgirlish manner, and her fashionable clothing and that trendy little travelling

case she arrives with (the one with the mirror so she can watch young O'Rourke riding

behind them) suggest this to me. These are the sort of details that young girls might pick up

from each other, as well as from a mother. And I just love that Ford gets details like this

into his films.