Western Movie Rambles

[MissGoddess]

But honestly... most of the story really doesn't seem to be centered around him.. at least not as much as it seems to just be taking place... around him. (not the same thing)

 

There you have it. This would be Anthony Mann and James Stewart's final

collaboration (they parted company while filming Night Passage) and

I find it interesting that it is arguably Stewart's least satisfying characterization

of all their films. Still, I always enjoy watching it whenever it comes on and,

perversely, I like it a little better than Bend of the Riber. I don't know

why, BotR is tighter as we've mentioned, except maybe I don't care much for the Rock

Hudson/Lori Nelson substory, nor am I a big Julie Adams fan. She's alright.

[movieman1957]

Kathy:

 

You and April mentioned "Dave," Donald Crisp's son. The problem I had with him was not so much that he was nasty, which indeed he was, as much as he whined about everything. His father was unfair to him. Kennedy got the favored status. He wasn't going to earn it he was going to steal his way into what he thought was his. Being the son was all that counted in his mind. He was lie a kid throwing a tantrum. If you are going to be mean then be mature mean.

 

Kennedy and Steward built a respect for each other. It really started out of Dave's bad behavior. It was one thing they could agree on. So when Kennedy worked his way out Stewart became the defacto son.

 

I like the movie. I would have liked a more involved relationship between Kennedy and Stewart. I could have done with less of Dave but he has to be a catalyst for what goes on between Stewart and Kennedy.

 

Good performances, nice location shooting. Then there is the gun shot to the hand.

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Quiet Gal -- I guess we're actually headed for a real film discussion. It's

been a while. Does this board even feature real discussion anymore?

 

Before I get into The Man from Laramie, I must preface by saying I've seen four of

the eight Mann-Stewart flicks:

 

1. Winchester '73

2. The Naked Spur

3. The Far Country

4. The Man from Laramie

 

As you can see, The Man from Laramie is my least favorite. I think it's more solid

than good.

 

I have to say about TMFL..... I am looking forward to hearing the "manly man' perspective

on MANN....... ha.

 

We'll have to await someone like Mad Hat for that. In the meantime...

 

From my limited experience w/ Mann... this is the pattern I am seeing in his films by the

way: He has some interesting characters, and what COULD be a really strong story

(but for some reason still needed a bit more developing for my taste) and a lot of action

and suspense. Oh... and throw in a little psychological intrigue as well just to keep it all

interesting.. ha)

 

Speaking as a Mann fan, I'm ashamed to admit that I've yet to pin down the Mann style. I

need someone like ChiO to educate me with this. Of what I've seen of his westerns, I'd say

he likes placing a man with a dark past in a position where he must confront his demons, thus

proving and redeeming himself with himself. I consider him to be a "masculine" director. And,

ironically, my favorite film of his, Raw Deal, is one of this most "feminine," though still

masculine as a whole.

 

I can't honestly say that this film would be among my most favorite westerns ever, but

I really enjoyed it a lot for a lot of different reason. The story was pretty good.... but I just

had a few issues w/ some of the characters and their motivations. Still... it had some

good twists and turns (like in the relationship between Crisp and our dear Aline MacMahan.)

And I think overall... this was a good effort on Stewart's part. I also liked Wallace Ford's

character in this one as well. I wish he'd had a little bit more time on screen. Oh... and

I loved slimy old Jack Elam... what a piece of work. (ha)

 

I thought Jimmy Stewart was excellent in the film. I loved his wide emotional range. I always

felt him and his character, Will Lockhart. I just love seeing an angry and determined

Jimmy Stewart. That's the Stewart I like the most.

 

Aline MacMahon was wonderful, as was Donald Crisp. The Alex-Kate love story wasn't in

our face, but it really was the underlying story. That's where you'll find the heart of the film.

 

And even though Cathy O'Donnell is a growing favorite of mine, I feel like she isn't used properly in this film. Having said that, in my latest viewing of the film, her scenes at the end are now some of my favorite. She's a sweetheart.

 

 

And I also thought the scenery was terrific in this film as well . VERY stark yet beautiful.

 

Very rocky. Mann seems to love them rocks.

 

I think overall it is a good western, but if I have any REAL problems w/ it... I guess it

would be that I mostly just got hung up on the son.... what a ridiculous character. He

was just too "unreal". But maybe it is because I wanted him to have more lines so we

could get a chance to see him be really awful and not just show up.... beat up and/or

shoot somebody.... and disappear again.His character was just too underdeveloped to

be beleivable. His best scene was his last one up on that cliff w/ the fire and the wagon

full of guns... I just did not find him all that believable or menacing of a bad guy (despite

all his HORRIFIC acts of violence... )

 

I completely agree with you. You now feel ill, don't you?

 

I do not like Alex Nicol's "Dave." He's too over-the-top for me. This is going to sound

ridiculous, but he reminded me of "Teddy" from One Crazy Summer. The thing is,

one is overcooked for humor sake whereas the other is meant to be serious. Movieman

and I discussed this a while ago on another thread. I believe he also asked the question

if a villain makes or breaks a western and I have found this to be true with me. One of

the aspects I most like about westerns are the villains. I don't think any genre (other

than superheroes) does villainy better than westerns.

 

And then maybe the other critiscim I had was that whole.... "I had a dream".... thing

from the father. That was a bit "far fetched" for a rugged western like this one as well.

 

Ahhhh, yes, the premonition. As man loses his sight, he gains it.

[MissGoddess]

The Searchers and 3 Bad Men don't really have a villain (or a very effective one).

[FrankGrimes]

The Searchers and 3 Bad Men don't really have a villain (or a very effective one).

 

Very true, and I do love those two westerns. I'm not saying I need a good villain to like a

western, either. It's just that a good villain can really add or detract from a western more than most any other genre. In The Man from Laramie, I find the villain to be very detracting.

 

I had no problem with Kennedy's performance or the character in TMFL, just that there

seemed less tension or conflict between him and Stewart than I wanted. In fact, the main

conflict to me seemed to be between Kennedy and the old man, with Stewart's character

being almost over-hyped. He was built up in Crisp's mind as the stranger come to wreak

havoc with his life and it just never seemed like we even needed Jimmy's character or he

was reduced to a catalyst.

 

That was very well said and I happen to agree with all of that. I view Will (James Stewart)

as more of a catalyst, as truth serum. He's the one who forces others to deal with their

situations. As Barbara (Cathy O'Donnell) says...

 

[rohanaka]

Hello there, Mr. Movieman...

 

Kennedy and Steward built a respect for each other. It really started out of Dave's bad behavior. It was one thing they could agree on. So when Kennedy worked his way out Stewart became the defacto son.

 

THAT is a great point. Crisp's character seemed to have a problem w/ understanding what it meant to really TRUST anyone because he seemed to be LOUSY at picking the people he trusted (all except for Aline and Stewart)... She stood by him all those years... even if from a LONG distance across the way at her own ranch... and Stewart was the first man to ever come along that had the REAL qualities he never was able to find in Kennedy or his son. It took all that tragedy and mayhem (and as the Grey Guy mentioned.. as he was losing his sight) for him to finally see things for the way they are..

 

Good performances, nice location shooting. Then there is the gun shot to the hand

 

Ha... Chris... I always love your three point descriptions at the end of your comments. You need to get a job writing those little extra tag lines that get added on to movie posters... ha. Yours are always entertaining AND usually more accurate than a lot of the ones I've read on many of the modern movie posters too. :-)

[rohanaka]

Woo Hoo.. It's the Grey Guy...

 

Does this board even feature real discussion anymore

 

Well..... I don't know how to answer that one.. Lately, I tend to just keep my head down and only pop up when I have something to say now and then. But sometimes my little head pops up more than others.... so I guess this is one of those times...

 

(But PS... I am so glad you showed up here tonight... it is hard to keep a good rope frozen this time of year...)

 

Before I get into The Man from Laramie, I must preface by saying I've seen four of

the eight Mann-Stewart flicks:

 

I have to confess that he is not a director I know a whole lot about. (as if there were ANY directors I could TRULY say that about.. ha... I am such a "wannabe" compared to some of these more learned folks around here) But I looked up his filmography and saw that I have seen a few more of his films than I first realized. Anyway... as far as his westerns go... I am not a big fan of Winchester 73 but I do like the Far Country very much. And as mentioned earlier... I liked Bend of the River too. I recently saw The Furies... (Now THERE's a messed up family story for sure... don't get me started... HA!) and I saw Cimarron last summer and I believe The Tin Star is the Henry Fonda film I only saw part of because it was on BEFORE I got my VCR and could not tape it... and that was the now infamous night that the QT came home and said... "Hey, let's go out to eat chinese food." just as I was starting to watch... ha... (at least I DID get to see the end of the movie though) :-)

 

Of what I've seen of his westerns, I'd say he likes placing a man with a dark past in a position where he must confront his demons, thus proving and redeeming himself with himself. I consider him to be a "masculine" director.

 

I think you have him pegged more or less... That sounds like most of the stories I have seen (except maybe The Furies and perhaps Cimarron) But even w/ those exceptions I'd have to agree Mann is a "manly man" kinda director... ha.

 

I just love seeing an angry and determined Jimmy Stewart. That's the Stewart I like the most

 

I have to agree with you. He was such an "every guy" in a lot of respects in many of his films... so I think when he gets an "angry and determined" sort of role or even if it is just one scene... you really sense the STRUGGLE.

 

Aline MacMahon was wonderful, as was Donald Crisp.The Alex-Kate love story wasn't in our face, but it really was the underlying story. That's where you'll find the heart of the film.

 

I like how she stood by him from a FAR off distance for all those years... and I also like how she was one of the few people who really seemed able to hold him accountable. She KNEW the mistakes he'd made... and she did not let him just get away with them. She stood up to him in her own way. But most of all... she just loved him for REAL... even when he was REALLY hard to love.

 

And even though Cathy O'Donnell is a growing favorite of mine, I feel like she isn't used properly in this film. Having said that, in my latest viewing of the film, her scenes at the end are now some of my favorite. She's a sweetheart.

 

I think this is one of those times I mentioned earlier where either the writing (or possibly Mann) let her down. I think she COULD have had a really good part in this film if the character had a little more "umph" to her.

 

I completely agree with you. You now feel ill, don't you

 

HA!!!!!!!!! No... it doesn't bother me if YOU agree with ME... but I would feel realy ILL if you had said a bunch of stuff and then I had to agree with YOU... ha. (not the same thing... ha)

 

I do not like Alex Nicol's "Dave." He's too over-the-top for me. This is going to sound

ridiculous, but he reminded me of "Teddy" from One Crazy Summer. The thing is,

one is overcooked for humor sake whereas the other is meant to be serious. Movieman

and I discussed this a while ago on another thread. I believe he also asked the question

if a villain makes or breaks a western and I have found this to be true with me. One of

the aspects I most like about westerns are the villains. I don't think any genre (other

than superheroes) does villainy better than westerns.

 

Ugh... NOW I feel ill... ha. But it is true... I do think there is something to be said about the effect a villian can play in the "make or break" of a story. (if not the "villian", then at least the "conflict" in the story) . How big the obstacle (or how rotten the person) is that has to be overcome really impacts how GOOD it feels to watch the whole process of "overcoming" it all. And w/ regard to "villainy" being so well handled in Westerns in general... I think it all goes back to that whole BLACK/WHITE aspect that I find so appealing to so many westerns and western characters. It is FUN to cheer for the "good guy" but it is also just as much fun to "hate the bad guy"... and it is also fun to see a bad guy get his come-uppance. A LOT of "classic" westerns are VERY reliable in this aspect (most of the time anyway).

 

We'll have to await someone like Mad Hat for that

 

Where HAS that Mad Hat gotten to??? We may have to go up on the cliff and send him smoke signals...

 

 

Message was edited by: rohanaka

[HollywoodGolightly]

*The Searchers and 3 Bad Men don't really have a villain (or a very effective one).*

 

Well, with all due respect, I don't know if I'd agree with that at all. At least it wasn't the way I saw them. The Comanches seemed a pretty compelling villain, always a latent menace and yet at the same time hard for Ethan Edwards to find - and what about the Chief who took little Debbie for his wife? He probably wasn't a very good "husband" to her. As for Ford's silent western 3 Bad Men, I remember that crooked sheriff in the white hat to be quite a compelling villain. He was especially evil in my opinion because he took advantage of his job, abusing others while pretending to be the one trying to uphold the law. And hadn't he done something pretty nasty to Bull's sister? He ranks as a pretty nasty man in my book.

 

A top-notch Western like Rio Bravo, on the other hand, has a main villain that is off-screen most of the time, even as his silly little minions are a constant reminder that there is a menace surrounding them in town.

 

*I like the movie. I would have liked a more involved relationship between Kennedy and Stewart. I could have done with less of Dave but he has to be a catalyst for what goes on between Stewart and Kennedy.*

 

Pretty good analysis, Chris, and I think I pretty much agree completely with you. From what I remember, I didn't care much if Dave came across as a fairly realistic character in the end or if his actions served primarily as a plot device, as you pointed out, he was the catalyst for what happens between Stewart and Kennedy - and that is the part I liked best about this Western.

[FrankGrimes]

Woo Hoo.. It's the Grey Guy.

 

Have you been in Fordy Guns' champagne?

 

(But PS... I am so glad you showed up here tonight... it is hard to keep a good rope

frozen this time of year...)

 

Is that so? Hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

I have to confess that he is not a director I know a whole lot about. (as if there were

ANY directors I could TRULY say that about.. ha... I am such a "wannabe" compared

to some of these more learned folks around here) But I looked up his filmography and

saw that I have seen a few more of his films than I first realized. Anyway... as far as

his westerns go... I am not a big fan of Winchester 73 but I do like the Far Country very

much. And as mentioned earlier... I liked Bend of the River too. I recently saw

The Furies... (Now THERE's a messed up family story for sure... don't get me

started... HA!) and I saw Cimarron last summer and I believe The Tin Star is the

Henry Fonda film I only saw part of because it was on BEFORE I got my VCR

and could not tape it... and that was the now infamous night that the QT came

home and said... "Hey, let's go out to eat chinese food." just as I was starting

to watch... ha... (at least I DID get to see the end of the movie though)

 

Well, you've seen some that I have not like Bend of the River, The Tin Star,

and Cimarron.

 

I have to agree with you. He was such an "every guy" in a lot of respects in many of

his films... so I think when he gets an "angry and determined" sort of role or even if it

is just one scene... you really sense the STRUGGLE.

 

I never thought Jimmy could be the kind of actor who would play a character with rage,

but he does so in a few of his westerns with Anthony Mann, and he does so earnestly.

 

I like how she stood by him from a FAR off distance for all those years... and I also

like how she was one of the few people who really seemed able to hold him

accountable. She KNEW the mistakes he'd made... and she did not let him just get

away with them. She stood up to him in her own way. But most of all... she just loved

him for REAL... even when he was REALLY hard to love.

 

Talk about a patient woman! She watched her Alec marry and have a son, yet she still

carried a torch for him. And when she gets him, he's blind.

 

I think this is one of those times I mentioned earlier where either the writing (or possibly

Mann) let her down. I think she COULD have had a really good part in this film if the

character had a little more "umph" to her.

 

We never get to experience her conflict. The "wedding" scene is an example of a wasted

opportunity with Barbara, Vic, and Will. In that little scene, we are shown Will's feelings but

not Barbara's. Although, she does take a shot at Vic's not being able to ever free himself

of Alec.

 

Will can't bear to look at Barbara with Vic.

 

 

He looks to escape his uncomfortable feelings.

 

 

Interestingly, it's Barbara who flees her feelings later on.

 

 

HA!!!!!!!!! No... it doesn't bother me if YOU agree with ME... but I would feel realy ILL if

you had said a bunch of stuff and then I had to agree with YOU... ha. (not the same

thing... ha)

 

That's an excellent point.

 

 

Ugh... NOW I feel ill... ha. But it is true... I do think there is something to be said

about the effect a villian can play in the "make or break" of a story. (if not the "villian",

then at least the "conflict" in the story) . How big the obstacle (or how rotten the

person) is that has to be overcome really impacts how GOOD it feels to watch the

whole process of "overcoming" it all. And w/ regard to "villainy" being so well handled

in Westerns in general... I think it all goes back to that whole BLACK/WHITE aspect

that I find so appealing to so many westerns and western characters. It is FUN to

cheer for the "good guy" but it is also just as much fun to "hate the bad guy"... and

it is also fun to see a bad guy get his come-uppance. A LOT of "classic" westerns

are VERY reliable in this aspect (most of the time anyway).

 

I enjoy the showmanship of the bad guys. Many times, they are more entertaining to me

than the good guys.

 

What makes Mann's westerns standout for me is that his good guys are often just as

fascinating to me as his bad guys. James Stewart vs. Robert Ryan and James Stewart

vs. Dan Duryea (sort of) and James Stewart vs. John McIntire and Gary Cooper vs.

Lee J. Cobb. Even though Dave (Alex Nicol) is more sadistic than the other Mann villains,

he's also too silly. He's basically a hothead. The others are more devious and conniving.

I also find Will to be much purer than the other Mann good guys that I've seen to date. The

others have darker pasts or are mired in a current state of darkness, which I prefer. I guess

Will is most similar to "Lin McAdam" in Winchester '73.

 

Most of my favorite westerns feature good guys who are either mysterious, have a dark past,

or are madly driven.

 

1. Once Upon a Time in the West (mysterious, madly driven)

2. The Wild Bunch (dark past)

3. Shane (mysterious, possible dark past)

4. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

5. For a Few Dollars More (mysterious)

6. High Noon

7. 3 Bad Men (dark past)

8. The Searchers (dark past, somewhat mysterious, madly driven)

9. Forty Guns

10. Johnny Guitar (mysterious)

11. Winchester '73 (madly driven)

12. The Professionals (dark past)

13. The Naked Spur (madly driven)

14. Man of the West (dark past)

15. A Fistful of Dollars (mysterious)

 

 

Where HAS that Mad Hat gotten to??? We may have to go up on the cliff and send him smoke signals.

 

What have you done to him?! You are the most likely suspect since you are constantly

looking to do him in. Have you stumbled upon your own Ox-Bow?

[movieman1957]

I think Stewart plays rage best in "Winchester '73." In fact he is on a rage setting almost the whole movie. He is determined to find his rifle but he is more driven because Stephen McNally has it. (Of course we find out why later.)

 

The scene where he gets after Duryea for information about McNally is kind of an awakening for Stewart fans. You got a hint of it in "It's A Wonderful Life" but he really lets loose here.

 

Anybody looking for a Mann western without Stewart should go immediately to "The Tin Star." Henry Fonda is quite the opposite of the Stewart heroes in that he is the epitome of calm.

 

Poor Cathy O'Donnell is almost superfluous in the movie. She helps propel the story at the beginning some but she fades somewhat come the middle of the picture.

[HollywoodGolightly]

I'd say you're definitely right, Chris. Anthony Mann somehow really allowed Stewart to explore some really dark places that had only been hinted at in It's a Wonderful Life. It's really one of his best performances ever.

 

Not to change the subject, but has anyone seen Ramrod recently?

[JackFavell]

What are you guys talking about!!!!??!! This movie was a masterpiece......

 

.....compared to The Undefeated, the last western I watched......

 

 

OK. I think that Mann was going for a Greek Tragedy here. Crisp was the overly powerful yet deluded and foolish patriarch, let down by his family....full of hubris. Hence the dream part, which I actually liked. I think it could have been pointed up a little more, maybe made to be more of a threat to him.... because it shows the human frailty of this strong man. A man not afraid of anything solid and earthbound, but ruined by his fear of something in his own head.

 

I really forget sometimes that Jimmy Stewart is such a good actor. In the movies that I know well, he becomes so familiar that I don't see his performance. He becomes sort of a cartoon of himself. I really liked his simmering here, and the closeups of him are really good, showing his turmoil, and that he is not necessarily a nice man. I think this might be the first time in a long while that I thought he was attractive. It drove me crazy though, because he didn't learn his lesson at the beginning - ALWAYS TAKE YOUR SIDEKICK WITH YOU! You need witnesses to prove you didn't kill someone!

 

I felt like Kennedy was too understandable. His character was weak, and jealous, but was played with too much empathy. I felt bad for him. There was nothing crazy about him. He was an accidental villain, and as Kathy so eloquently stated, where's the fun in seeing that taken down?

 

I felt the movie bogged down and got kind of boring when they left it to poor Dave. He was the only actor who just didn't have the chops to hold a scene. And the others being so good made him look bad.

 

The revelation that it was really Arthur Kennedy who put Dave up to the gun thing was very weak, really only a guess by the father. If that had been pointed up, and then given Kennedy a big confession scene in which we see the evil and hatred oozing out of him, as he accuses the old man of making him that way, well THAT would have been something! Then Stewart could have had a similar revelation in which he realizes that it was Kennedy who killed his brother. Everybody happy, especially the audience.

 

I lov ed the look of the picture and the music. The blues and yellows, with occasional greens and pinks was refreshingly pastel, and made the place seem so beautiful, the kind of place you would want to stay.... It would have helped if Stewart had had more of a struggle within himself to stay there.

 

Cathy O'Donnell - I liked her, but I wasn't crazy about her. She sometimes became a little to actressy for me, but she did hold my attention. Her phrasing was so proper it bothered me a little. Her personality has always been very interesting, though. I didn't feel her confusion either, although I was confused at her love scene with Kennedy when she was pulling away.... couldn't he see that? It would have helped to drive his character even more, if he felt her pulling away from him.....

[HollywoodGolightly]

*I lov ed the look of the picture and the music. The blues and yellows, with occasional greens and pinks was refreshingly pastel, and made the place seem so beautiful, the kind of place you would want to stay.... It would have helped if Stewart had had more of a struggle within himself to stay there.*

 

Credit for the beautiful cinematography of The Man From Laramie goes to the great DP Charles Lang, who had already won an Oscar way back in 1932 (for A Farewell to Arms with Gary Cooper) and was to receive over a dozen Oscar nominations after that. He also shot another great Western, One-Eyed Jacks (1961) with Marlon Brando.

[JackFavell]

Oh, I nearly forgot! Aline MacMahon should have gotten a prize for sticking by Donald Crisp all those years and making it so believable! She was great from start to finish. I felt that she and Donald Crisp were the ones who really "got" the story.

[rohanaka]

Howdy Mr. Grey....

 

Have you been in Fordy Guns' champagne?

 

Sir, you are talking to a teetotaler.... But I HAVE been known to hit the bottle (of caffeine free COKE) pretty hard from time to time... ha.

 

it is hard to keep a good rope

frozen this time of year...)

 

Is that so? Hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

NEVER fear... I have a walk in freezer full of those lovely little woven beauties should the need arise...

 

never thought Jimmy could be the kind of actor who would play a character with rage,

but he does so in a few of his westerns with Anthony Mann, and he does so earnestly

 

I think you are right about how well he carries it off... but I have to say... I prefer him in roles where he turns it on and off (like in Liberty Valance) instead of going full throttle throughout most of the story (maybe why I don't like Winchester 73 so much)

 

Talk about a patient woman! She watched her Alec marry and have a son, yet she still

carried a torch for him. And when she gets him, he's blind.

 

I don't know if she so much carried a torch for him as she just waited for him to "see the light".... and yes... you mentioned it earlier... he had to become BLIND before he could see.

 

The "wedding" scene is an example of a wasted

opportunity with Barbara, Vic, and Will.

 

That is a PERFECT example... good eye there, young'un.

 

I enjoy the showmanship of the bad guys. Many times, they are more entertaining to me

than the good guys.

 

Now that does not surprise me at all to hear you say that. :-)

 

What makes Mann's westerns standout for me is that his good guys are often just as

fascinating to me as his bad guys.

 

They seem to have a lot of "layers" and that does tend to make them more interesting.

 

Most of my favorite westerns feature good guys who are either mysterious, have a dark past,

or are madly driven.

 

And would THAT be because YOU are a combination of all three????? ha. (or maybe NOT so "ha"... "Mr. Man in the Shadows") Seriously though... I think it is fun to see a "good guy" who has a little mystery to him now and then... it is even MORE fun to see an "unwilling" good guy.... someone who gets caught up in doing the right thing because he clearly sees it is the right thing to do... whether he wants to admit it or not (a la our beloved 3 SWEET Men.. I just can't call them "Bad"... ha)

 

You have quite a list there... but you KNOW what I am going to say about your # 1 choice already, don't you....

 

Once Upon a Time in the West

 

UGH!! BLECH!!! ICKY!!! YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BREAK OUT THE PEPTO BISMOL.... I am gonna be SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha. (Blame it on Henry Fonda for being SO GOOD at being bad... ha)

 

What have you done to him?! You are the most likely suspect since you are constantly

looking to do him in. Have you stumbled upon your own Ox-Bow

 

OH say it isn't so.... (actually... I have it on good authority that the poor desperado is under the weather.... hopefully he will be back on the boards and dodging bullets and ropes with you SOON!!! ) Of course... this COULD just be another one of those "excuses, excuses... kinda things... I am going to give him a LITTLE slack.. (it is always good to let the rope out a LITTLE just before you drag them back in... )

 

(Get well soon, Molo) :-)

 

PS... JACKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I loved your comments about TMFL.... I especially like your mention of the colors.... VERY good eye as always, young'un....

 

I think that Mann was going for a Greek Tragedy here. Crisp was the overly powerful yet deluded and foolish patriarch, let down by his family....full of hubris. Hence the dream part, which I actually liked. I think it could have been pointed up a little more, maybe made to be more of a threat to him.... because it shows the human frailty of this strong man. A man not afraid of anything solid and earthbound, but ruined by his fear of something in his own head

 

Have you seen The Furies???

 

ALWAYS TAKE YOUR SIDEKICK WITH YOU! You need witnesses to prove you didn't kill someone

 

HA!!! So true! But at least the sheriff seemed to have a pretty good idea of what was REALLY going on ( for the most part) But if Jimmy HAD listened to you then I would have been happy for more than one reason because I say again: I would have LOVED seeing more scenes with Wallace Ford. There was just something about him that I liked (especially the way he stayed w/ Stewart when all the other guys decided to take their pay and go home)

 

I think this might be the first time in a long while that I thought he was attractive

 

OH! What would BEN think?? ha. Seriously, though... Jimmy does have a way about him sometimes. Ha. :-)

[JackFavell]

Have you seen The Furies???

 

Oh... uh, uh, uh....... I swear, Peacemaker....! ....Um....... uh.... I swear I will watch it soon.......... (beads of sweat appearing on brow)..... don't hurt me, Peacemaker.... (trips and falls while turning and running away)......

 

Seriously though... I think it is fun to see a "good guy" who has a little mystery to him now and then... it is even MORE fun to see an "unwilling" good guy.... someone who gets caught up in doing the right thing because he clearly sees it is the right thing to do...

 

I like my heroes tarnished.....

[rohanaka]

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... and ha.

 

I needed a good laugh, right about now, little lady... ha. I did not realize I was quite so scary!!! But YOU, little young'un have NOTHING to fear... I KNOW you are a faithful rambler.

 

And PS... re: The Furies... It was your remark about the Greek Tragedy that made me bring it up... I watched this movie for the first time about 3 or 4 wks ago.. and I have to confess... I am STILL trying to shake off some of feelings I was left with from this movie... I liked it.... I hated it... It was riveting.... It was repulsive... ha. (Oh wait... I think I said this earlier in my reply to Mr. Grey... The Furies... don't get me started... ha. )

[JackFavell]

I am going to have to watch The Furies, right after I watch Caged, all the rest of the Fritz Lang movies I recorded, etc, etc, etc.......in between Scooby Doo and old Pink Panther cartoons that my girl is watching......

 

Maybe I can move it up on my list a little....

 

I liked Wallace Ford a ton, and I wished he was in the movie more too. I would have liked him to have been more pivotal to the outcome somehow.....showing up to save the day. I always like when something unexpected happens, like the sidekick becomes the hero....

 

I want to clarify that point about the Greek tragedy before. While I really liked Donald Crisp a lot in this movie, I wish that they had made it more about how his belief in the dream had actually caused all the problems that were wreaking havoc on the family and the town.....by believing in it, he ruined and babied his son too much, turning him into a monster. By believing in the dream, he turned Kennedy into a glorified babysitter, thus setting him up to fail in his job. And by believing in the dream, he almost killed Jimmy Stewart wrongfully. His own life was destroyed (almost literally) by his fear of someone coming to kill his child.

 

I thought the movie was nice and tight up to the point with Dave and the guns.... I just thought it got too clouded up with superfluous details. It lagged and dangled a little from that point on. I blame it on the story - It wasn't clean and spare enough for my liking. However, it was an enjoyable movie throughout due to some really fine acting.

[rohanaka]

I am going to have to watch The Furies, right after I watch Caged, all the rest of the Fritz Lang movies I recorded, etc, etc, etc.......in between Scooby Doo and old Pink Panther cartoons that my girl is watching......

 

Ha.... so many movies.. so little time...

 

I hope you do get to watch it.. but I have to say... The Furies is NOT your typical western.... It took me a little while to warm up to it... there is a story there, though... once it gets going. And BOY oh boy... I LOVED (to hate) that Walter Huston....

 

Here's a little preview for you (but watch it in a QUIET room... the sound quality is a little poor) Still... I think it will give you just a tiny taste of how mean that old man can be.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PICtVfb20&feature=related

[JackFavell]

I thought he was a sweetheart....who wants that old nasty Wendell Corey anyhow?

[MissGoddess]

Jackie---I hope you can catch *The Furies*, I really think you'd like it. It's quite different

to the Stewart westerns, almost like a film noir. And I just can't say enough about

Gilbert Roland's part in it.

[JackFavell]

Gilbert Roland's in it? Well, why didn't you say so? I'll put it in tonight..... after everyone's asleep.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> Gilbert Roland's in it? Well, why didn't you say so? I'll put it in tonight..... after everyone's asleep.

 

I posted a few screencaps of him here:

 

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=142733&start=25&tstart=25

[HollywoodGolightly]

 

The Furies is one of my very favorite westerns ever, Barbara Stanwyck is phenomenal, as always - at least as good as she was in Forty Guns, another favorite!

[JackFavell]

I was following the other Roland thread, but I didn't see the one here. Thanks for the heads up.

 

I do love a good western. Men and horses.....don't know which is purtier....