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What the Heck Is Going On???


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Unlike the *Gay Images in Film* discussion of the summer of 2007, the Prop 8 and the Prop 8 Musical threads had no tie-ins with TCM programming.

 

They were political threads and like many political threads we have had before, they became divisive. Each side had proponents who took the rhetoric too far.

 

Posters of faith commented throughout the threads that the antagonistic tone of the Prop 8 thread was making them feel very uncomfortable and some questioned out loud if they would continue to post here given the language and feelings of some of the posters.

 

Those who did not support Prop 8 (which means they were for gay marriage) also had their morality and their beliefs questioned.

 

There were no winners in these two threads, only losers and by that, I mean we as a community were the losers. Instead of listening to one another the rhetoric grew more strident on both sides. People came out of those threads not with their minds changed but instead wary of people they once enjoyed conversing with.

 

As too often happens, both threads accomplished little more than to alienate us from one another.

As was pointed out quite often, this is a message board community devoted to talking about films, especially classic studio era films and TCM programming.

 

It seems each time we stray away from that into politics, posters inevitably end up bruised and battered and some, rightly or wrongly, just decide not to post here anymore.

 

This little community used to be much bigger but battles, like the ones in the Prop 8 threads, have caused this outpost to downsize over the last few years.

 

We can't blame TCM for that. The fault lies with us.

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I watched TCM for years and never thought about posting. When I finally signed up I rarely posted at all. Then TCM changed their station bug. It's the one they have now with the TCM logo and the .com rolling out of the side. I hated it! I came on here and found other people hated it too. It was a big controversy at the time. Around that time I also got into an unfriendly debate with a certain poster over smoking. I think he was advocating that they should all be killed. I have now learned to stay clear of threads and arguments like that but it took time. Eventually I settled down made some friends, tried to stay out of trouble and enjoy the boards.

 

My point is that sometime it takes getting upset about something to get someone to go to the trouble of signing up around here. I agree that people who come on here because they hate old films or just start insulting certain groups of people are ridiculous and I don't have time for them. Some people might just be upset and not realize they are upsetting other longtime posters though.

 

Oh and I still hate that station bug! I've learned to live with it though :)

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>We can't blame TCM for that. The fault lies with us.

 

It doesn't belong with "us" because I'm part of "us" and I did not participate in that idiotic California political thread. I don't live in California and I don't give a hoot about what California does.

 

The problem with that thread is with people like Film_Fatale who demanded that everyone take his/her side of the issue or leave the board. He/she claimed she/he sent letters to TCM demanding that they take a political and cultural stand that is identical with hers/his.

 

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=138246&tstart=0

 

It is that attitude that has helped ruin this board, by driving NORMAL people off the board, and by NORMAL I mean people who come to this board to talk about CLASSIC MOVIES. You even left this board for a while and went off and started your own separate board.

 

TCM did absolutely nothing to calm the situation down. TCM has done nothing to stop CineSageJr. from posting a constant barrage of insulting messages to newbies and religious people.

 

That is why, on some days, we have only 6 posters on this major corporate message board, while other major corporate boards have hundreds of posters.

 

I haven't said much about this issue lately, but I'm becoming fed up with it. I'm tired of some few people trying to force their political/social beliefs down everyone's throats and then demanding that we believe as they do and then threatening to contact TCM management in an attempt to force all of us to believe what they believe.

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What a nice post!

 

Fred I thought the TCM "Code of Conduct" was to prevent stuff like this from happening. Does that "code" helps or hurt us. I learned that the TCM Administrator is not a "forum policeman".

He does delete offensive post like I witness the other night when a newcomer had the gaul to insult another newbie in which I think he or she mistyped a word in what they do for a living.

 

I myself thought that the forum was to discuss movies, why we agree or disagree about the story line, actor performances, script, etc. What does Washington ( or California ) has to do with it is beyond me.

 

You probually summed up what is WRONG with the forum and why we are losing members.

We sometimes get a little off track on some subjects with humorous results but members that result to name calling, rudeness, not giving newbies a break because they may not understand how the forum works, etc to me are acting like children on a playground that doesn't know how to respect others.

 

You are the few "level headed" people on this forum.

 

If one does not like what a member says then explain in an adult way why they disagree with that paticuliar topic. Every member has their unique way of discussing movies and how they present their views and should be respected, NOT threaten.

 

Even if members send letters/complaints to the board DEMANDING they force other members to take certain political views, its logical such complaints would be ignored. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that. To members that don't like other members, either don't reply or hit so the "offending" person don't get under their skin.

 

I myself so far had a pleasant experience here on the forum and had only a few minor disagreements but I won't let it escalate or let it get heated. I generally back off and leave it at that, but with the understanding I *won't be bullied off*.

 

Has the trolls been replaced by *something worst?* Yes I read about the forum meltdown a couple of years ago and I hope that part of TCM history doesn't repeat itself.

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Fred, yes at great risk to my life and limb in telling you what to feel, I'll take that chance: please don't be insulted. My "traitor" comment was done with tongue firmly in cheek. It's just that you're a vet and you were talking about how old timers...

 

If you still feel insulted, that?s your prerogative as an American.

 

I'm glad everyone is getting things off their chest here for the New Year. Aaaah does it feel good? This here little thread has become the sacrificial lamb so that other threads may live and breathe and talk and discuss what we like or dislike about classic motion pictures.

 

What prompted my initial question six pages back was I had been seeing many new names on the board over this Xmas break saying some whack things and I was afraid that they were either:

1. posted by one insane poster.

2. drive-by insults on classic films and its lovers.

 

I was wondering what the heck was going on with that?

 

I would go back and see where this thread took a turn off the rails, but I use the feature. You?d be surprised how it leaves gaps in the threads I read. But, it?s a pretty good adult way to put my fingers in my ears and hum . Lately I?ve removed my feature to see if things have changed.

 

Nah...

 

Thanxxx lzcutter. A couple of posts down you explained the TCM Message Board New Year tradition of kvetching and haranguing. You've given me an insight on what's to come in the next few days.

 

I think I'll just stay over in the Gloria Grahame thread or in my "LOVE" thread until all this blows over and everything is back to normal.

 

Well...normal for the TCM Message Board.

 

Message was edited by CineMaven: I've gone back through the pages and looked and saw the first post that begins derailing this thread. I'm sorry to say that this thread was derailed by

 

Message was again edited by CineMaven - Oh crap...I must have indented!

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*"Wow, you are exactly right."* - FredCDobbs

 

Fred, let me make clear. When I wrote that "TCM did nothing to inhibit or end" the postings in support of gay marriage it shouldn't be interpreted to mean that I think they should have stepped in and put a stop to it.

It was meant to demonstrate that TCM took a tolerant attitude toward the situation and those who supported it. And they extended that same courtesy toward members who supported the contrarian view. (And believing marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman is/was definitely the "contrarian view" in these Forums.)

From quoting the Bible to posting dozen of YouTube links, everyone was allowed to express themselves freely on the subject. I never read one thing across multiple threads on the subject I would call "homophobic" - based on an irrational fear of homosexuals. I did read posts that were against gay marriage. But the two ideas are not synonymous. It seems TCM understood that even if some members don't.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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It's not an accusation, just an observation that your sarcastic reply would seem to confirm. People who belong to cliques (there, I said it again) always deny their existence.

 

I'd appreciate your attempt at humor more if I wasn't trying to make a serious comment here. Silly me, I thought perhaps there really was some concern about the lack of new blood on these boards, but apparently I was mistaken. Thanks for your response, anyway.

 

I will admit I do enjoy reading many of the posters who frequent these boards, and I'll continue doing so without comment unless I forget my place again (audience, not participant).

 

Happy New Year to you all.

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*People who belong to cliques (there, I said it again) always deny their existence.*

 

Again, there is no clique. There are a few remaining posters from before the meltdown that encourage each other to stay. Simple as that. I might receive one PM every two months, if that many. It's just a shame that most of the other old-timers quit long ago. And if I can't make light (or offer observations) of the sad situation around here, then I *would* leave, yet again.

 

There, no jokes, no sarcasm, no rudeness.

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Well, you brought up the secret handshake.

 

If we are a clique it is because some of us have been here several years. We have a realtionship. Some of us are friends. That doesn't make anything exclusionary but if it is a clique, which I would argue that it is not, like any other group you ease your way in.

 

When some new people come on it is easy to ignore those who may have a complaint about something that we have covered numerous times before. All that could be said has been said.

 

Is about being ignored or do you feel ridiculed? I want to understand your position. People will repsond, or not, based on what one has to say and how they say it. People, as a rule, aren't going to get a lot of grief just because they are new.

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I wish I could figure out what you click on here to quote another post, either whole or part, but I can't so I'll just respond to a few areas of your post to me, from a couple of pages back.

 

First, although we did 'register' very close in time, I have only been able to 'lurk; (such an unnecessarily creepy expression for what amounts to simply reading to learn and enjoy!) infrequently, while you, on the other hand, seem to be a fairly regular poster, so I think to compare us in that arena wouldn't be accurate.

 

You mention poster/s who appear every so many months to complain about different things, such as too many war movies, or whatever it is. I consider myself a pretty happy, friendly - and direct - person who loves to learn and enjoys several diverse topics of discussion on the internet (and off, as well, lol.), and classic films (specifically horror, noir/crime, sci-fi and mystery) is just one of those. I am not positive that you meant some subtle accusation that this person/s was in fact, me, but I can tell you, it wasn't. That ISN'T my style, and if you were to read any or all of my first 60 posts you will see the sort of contributor I am. that is, one who enjoys a give and take.

 

I do hear that you disapprove of the post/s I made on this thread. I am only sorry that you did not actually read them. Because I believe I made it pretty clear that I had seen incidences here and there of a kind of 'cliquism', for lack of another term, even BEFORE this thread appeared, one or two which affected me, personally, one or two that did not. But, there they were, clearly, and, this thread just seemed to prove out what I had been seeing and feeling. Admittedly pretty vehemently, I called it like I saw it. Believe me, I understand how really enjoyable long-term board relationships can be, as I am happy to say that I enjoy several. One board I am at at some point most every day - i t is my (and about 50 other peoples'), pit stop, happy hour, student center, coffee klatch, group therapy, debating club ,political forum, comedy club, gossip salon, girl's dorm, and moms'kid-free zone. But we take care with newcomers, its tough to be new and we always know that from whence we came ' - there is most likely more of 'us' out there. Everyone has something new and different and interesting to bring to the table, if they are sincere - but how will people who seem closed ever get to benefit? You may be closing your eyes and ears to the best story you ever heard, the most fascinating experiences of learning, the greatest laugh you ever had - if you place in front of yourself even the hint of an attitude of elitism, of unwelcoming, or disinterest. I felt some of those things from some of the people here. I didn't care for it, and the post I made yesterday was IN RESPONSE, and hardly my 'opening line'.

 

Message was edited by: Pia, for typos.

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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> >Are all film geniuses afraid of sex?

>

> Don't believe everything some stranger tells you on the internet.

>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl6SMOSXa7A

 

 

LOL!!!

 

Oh, Fred, I've never seen that one before, it's priceless. I absolutely

ADORE Hitch, in fact, I might have given him reason to be afraid of me.

(Not really, I think he and Alma were too wonderful together)

 

Thanks for posting that link.

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Film Fatale, I would just first like to say that I have enjoyed reading your posts all along (and they ARE "fabulous", lol!) and I appreciate that you shared about your own not totally positive experiences on the boards.. I applaud you for expressing - and standing by - your views that apparently are not shared by all - but what a boring place that would make it!! You and several other posters have always been welcoming and open, that I have seen, and I am grateful for your reply.

Pia

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I don't know...what is going on? I'm kidding...

 

As someone who has been a member a long while, but doesn't post often due to other real life and internet obligations - it is a little bit clickety click click clack around here at times. But, I will say that most of the ole timers are very friendly folks to any newbies that don't act like raging idiots.

 

To the poster who said that "The only movie outside of "The Dark Knight" that is of any quality of the past year is "Valkyrie" -

 

Oh now, I must disagree. While The Dark Knight is an admirable film, I would say you'd have to put Slumdog Millionaire, The Fall, Man On Wire, Wall-E, and several others on the brilliant list for this year.

 

Message was edited by: silentfan66

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*...while you, on the other hand, seem to be a fairly regular poster...*

 

I've been here for roughly three years, and have less than 1700 posts between two screen names. A little over 1.5 per day. Miniscule compared to some.

 

The poster(s) that I mentioned does not complain about different things, it's always the same two types of movies and the same wording. I never implied it was you. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I don't even recall ever reading any of your other posts in three years, and yes, I did read those on this thread, and no, I'm definitely not a snob, arrogant, or a bottomless pit of film knowledge. Other than math-related subjects, I'm a complete idiot, IMHO. But I do take offense when someone implies that I belong to a clique. There are threads on these forums where people do chit-chat endlessly, but I've never participated, and I don't think they qualify as cliques, either. Everyone's welcome, as far as I know.

 

And if you read my posts in this thread, I said nothing bad about you.

 

And if you want to quote someone, left-click and highlight on the text and copy, then paste it in your message. You can make the text bold by highlighting it again in your message and clicking the "B" in the toolbar above.

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> {quote:title=patful wrote:}{quote}

> And if you want to quote someone, left-click and highlight on the text and copy, then paste it in your message. You can make the text bold by highlighting it again in your message and clicking the "B" in the toolbar above.

 

Or click on the " symbol, like I just did. ;)

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>LOL!!! Oh, Fred, I've never seen that one before, it's priceless. I absolutely >ADORE Hitch, in fact, I might have given him reason to be afraid of me. (Not really, I think he and Alma were too wonderful together) Thanks for posting that link.

 

Yeah, isn't that one amazing! Think of how many years that clip must have sat around in a can, all rolled up, on some dusty library shelf or in someone's closet. It must have gone through the Blitz in London, but it still survived all these years. Then some unknown somebody puts it on YouTube, and what a rare treat it is to see.

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> {quote:title=Pia wrote:}{quote}

> Film Fatale, I would just first like to say that I have enjoyed reading your posts all along (and they ARE "fabulous", lol!) and I appreciate that you shared about your own not totally positive experiences on the boards.. I applaud you for expressing - and standing by - your views that apparently are not shared by all - but what a boring place that would make it!! You and several other posters have always been welcoming and open, that I have seen, and I am grateful for your reply.

> Pia

 

Thank you for the kind words, Pia. Classic films are still the primary reason I've been attracted to these forums, but occasionally certain discussions have a way of going into certain issues that can have a tremendous impact on the real lives of many people.

 

When that happens, I tend to always side with those who have historically been oppressed, marginalized, subjected to hate crimes, bigotry and discrimination simply for having been born with certain immutable characteristics. I guess in the eyes of some people in the forums, that makes me a bad person. :(

 

It really did come as a surprise to me that folks who'd been very friendly to me in the forums for well over a year suddenly gave me the cold shoulder for no apparent reason - and that it just happened to be around the same time that I expressed my belief in supporting the equal treatment of all Americans under the law. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised that stuff like that would happen, even here.

 

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> The problem with that thread is with people like Film_Fatale who demanded that everyone take his/her side of the issue or leave the board. He/she claimed she/he sent letters to TCM demanding that they take a political and cultural stand that is identical with hers/his.

 

Fred, what we have here (apparently) is a failure to communicate.

 

Even by the standards of modern-day character assassination, your distortions of the facts are actually pretty amazing, imho.

 

I have never, and would never demand, that "everyone" take my side of the issue, not in the forums and certainly not elsewhere. I'm certainly disappointed when people openly advocate bigotry and intolerance, but I have never been under any delusion that I can somehow convince people who are bigoted to stop being bigots. (And to avoid any possible misunderstanding, I am not referring to any people in particular when I use the word "bigot" - not in the forums, and not IRL).

 

Your assertion regarding some imaginary letters ih which you claim someone was "demanding that [TCM] take a political and cultural stand" identical to anyone else's, is _equally and completely false_.

 

What I do believe is that bigoted and homophobic remarks have no place in the TCM forums, and that obviously they go against the Code of Conduct. And to avoid any misunderstanding, it *is* possible to take a position against equality for all Americans (i.e., against same-sex marriage) _without resorting to bigoted or homophobic remarks_.

 

It really takes the cake that you should try to portray someone who is for equality as somehow being intolerant. Historically, the people who have been the most intolerant have been those who were against equality - equality for African-Americans, equality for women, equality for people of all faiths, etc.

 

 

> {quote:title=hlywdkjk wrote:}{quote}

> I never read one thing across multiple threads on the subject I would call "homophobic" - based on an irrational fear of homosexuals. I did read posts that were against gay marriage. But the two ideas are not synonymous. It seems TCM understood that even if some members don't.

>

> Kyle In Hollywood

 

And it seems that _you_ don't understand the difference between bigoted statements about sexual minorities (even when they do not necessarily raise to a homophobic level) and those comments which merely expressed a point of view on the subject without resorting to gay-bashing or bigoted remarks. And I think you should certainly understand that gay-bashing has been going on in the TCM forums for a long time now, and that it was certainly not limited to the threads from last November.

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*"And I think you should certainly understand that gay-bashing has been going on in the TCM forums for a long time now, and that it was certainly not limited to the threads from last November."* - Film_Fatale

 

Please show me all these slurs of a gay/lesbian nature or other intentionally cruel statements directed toward homosexual members of this community in the past year and a half. I'd like to see them and know where all this "gay-bashing" is going on because I've seemed to have missed it.

 

Just remember, if you can express your opinion without resorting to name-calling, so can a "bigot" as long as it isn't an attack of a personal nature. It comes with the territory in a public forum which is supposed to be about classic film.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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People! Yet another thread has been hijacked, completely ignoring the intent of the original poster. This was about the glut of new one-post posters the last few days, and their obvious similarities. Not the paranoid ramblings of one poster. It was meant to be a fun thread. Let's keep it that way! :-)

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> {quote:title=patful wrote:}{quote}

> People! Yet another thread has been hijacked, completely ignoring the intent of the original poster. This was about the glut of new one-post posters the last few days, and their obvious similarities. Not the paranoid ramblings of one poster. It was meant to be a fun thread. Let's keep it that way! :-)

 

patful, even though I disagree with him, I certainly wouldn't call Fred's posts "paranoid ramblings". ;)

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