SHANE (1953)

[MissGoddess]

Excellent posts, everyone (that I can see)!

 

Frank---you almost sound as if you could have played Shane yourself, you seem

to understand right from wrong so well.

[lzcutter]

Hey guys,

 

I revived the *Searchers* speculation thread and posted MissG's question about the ending if anyone is interested in joining the conversation.

[MissGoddess]

Hey guys,

 

I revived the Searchers speculation thread and posted MissG's question about the ending if anyone is interested in joining the conversation.

 

Thank you, Lynn! That will be a real pleasure.

[FrankGrimes]

How do, Grahame's Guy? -- Some of you have commented on Shane's compliment

to Marian but what stood out to me was a scene just before that. When Marian is

setting the table, Joe says something to her about bringing out the fancy plates. She

gives him a look like "don't embarrass me" and he asks her what's wrong. Am I making

that up? I don't have my copy on hand to check. I noticed that more than Shane's

compliment.

 

I took that scene as Marian doing something special for someone who stood up for her

family. She wanted to return the favor. And then this led to Shane returning her

favor. It's very much how a relationship should work. I do believe Marian was slightly

embarrassed by Joe bringing attention to this in front of Shane, although I think he was

basically teasing her in a loving way. It actually looks like a bit of dialogue was cut out

from the scene because Jean Arthur opens her mouth as if to say something right

when it cuts.

 

 

I do like the married couple looks. Marian and Joe do communicate through

eye contact:

 

 

 

This is the shot where I think Marian is getting ready to say something:

 

 

 

Again, notice the quick little look Marian gives Joe:

 

 

 

I did notice Joe's look while Marian and Shane were dancing. I also think that

Joe was remarkably mature about it all. Then again, why shouldn't he be? He never

has any reason to distrust either of them. I agree that Marian would never think of

straying from Joe. Shane understood that. The three of them had real respect for

each other. Shane knows he can most likely never have the pleasures of marriage,

family and roots. He admires what Joe and Marian have and is protective of it. I also

think Joe wants to believe that Shane will protect Marian and Joey if he is killed. He

wants that comfort before he takes on Ryker.

 

That was well said. I agree with all of it. There is a definite attraction and connection

between Shane and Marian but both know the difference between right and

wrong. They are not going to act on any of their impulses. And I do believe Shane

comes to realize it will be forever difficult for him to "settle down." And he may be

thinking, 'I doubt I'll ever find a woman like Marian.' Could his woman be another

man's woman? Boy, that's a tough pill to swallow.

 

Joe seems to be a little frustrated by his less-than-elegant dancing ability. It

doesn't come natural to him.

 

 

One of the most important aspects of the "Independence Day dance" is that it's also

Joe and Marian's 10th wedding anniversary.

 

 

One of my favorites lines in the film:

 

 

The reason why I love that line is because it rings true. Shane IS the better man but

Shane doesn't have Marian. I think even Shane would agree with Joe's words. Deep

down, he wishes to have what Joe has. Many times, the woman makes the man.

 

 

Unlike Joe and Marian, Shane and Marian are very much in-step and in-tune with

the dance. This speaks to the deeper feelings between the two, as well.

 

 

 

When the dance is over, Marian goes right to her husband with a big smile on her

face. She is extremely happy. I can't imagine there being a greater feeling for a guy than

to see his wife and children happy.

 

 

I also want to give Jackie credit for pointing out the dance being very Fordian. I think

that's a wonderful point. I got the same feeling. A dance is the perfect way to bring

together men and women, especially in a western setting. The dance in Shane

reminded me of the dance in My Darling Clementine.

 

Oddly enough, two of my favorite westerns actually deal with marriage: Shane

and High Noon.

[MissGoddess]

The One and Only Shiftless Grimes:

 

There you go, teasing about HIGH NOON again! Kathy! Where's that frozen rope??

 

Excellent post, Sha---I mean, Frank.

[Fordy_Guns]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> I also want to give Jackie credit for pointing out the dance being very Fordian. I think

> that's a wonderful point. I got the same feeling. A dance is the perfect way to bring

> together men and women, especially in a western setting. The dance in Shane

> reminded me of the dance in My Darling Clementine.

>

 

That's a really good point, too. I wonder if George Stevens might actually have intended to pay homage to Ford with that scene.

[MissGoddess]

I also want to give Jackie credit for pointing out the dance being very Fordian. I think

that's a wonderful point. I got the same feeling. A dance is the perfect way to bring

together men and women, especially in a western setting. The dance in Shane

reminded me of the dance in My Darling Clementine.

 

It certainly does! I just love that, once again, Stevens showed the little children

as a part of it, especially that funny little girl who was always waving at the camera, ha!

 

I never noticed that part back in the beginning where it looked like Jean Arthur

was about to say something. It is an interesting scene, I like how somewhat

flustered she is and how happy she is to be serving on her "fine" china.

[FrankGrimes]

The One and Only Shiftless Grimes:

 

It would be hard to imagine anyone more shiftless than me.

 

There you go, teasing about HIGH NOON again! Kathy! Where's that frozen rope??

 

My Little Lamby!

 

Excellent post, Sha---I mean, Frank.

 

 

I never noticed that part back in the beginning where it looked like Jean Arthur

was about to say something. It is an interesting scene, I like how somewhat

flustered she is and how happy she is to be serving on her "fine" china.

 

And I think using the "fine" china speaks to Cinemafan's brilliant observation about

Marian wearing dresses from this day forth. She feels like a woman again and she

really likes that feeling.

 

It certainly does! I just love that, once again, Stevens showed the little children

as a part of it, especially that funny little girl who was always waving at the

camera, ha!

 

[MissGoddess]

My Little Lamby!

 

We're going to yank that "ramble" out of you about your "little lamby"

one of these days.

 

And I think using the "fine" china speaks to Cinemafan's brilliant observation about

Marian wearing dresses from this day forth. She feels like a woman again and she

really likes that feeling.

 

That's right, things like that mean a lot to a woman. This reminds me of..

 

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

We're going to yank that "ramble" out of you about your "little lamby"

one of these days.

 

She's a sweetie!

 

That's right, things like that mean a lot to a woman. This reminds me of..

 

Ford?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[MissGoddess]

> That's right, things like that mean a lot to a woman. This reminds me of..

>

> Ford?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

What do you mean?? Them's fightin' words!

[FrankGrimes]

What do you mean?? Them's fightin' words!

 

Yeah, and I know how you fight...

 

[JackFavell]

OH... you beat me to the "A woman and her things" ramble....

 

And did I say the dance was Fordian? I am happy to take credit for it... but I don't remember saying it.

 

Maybe I am losing my mind..... just call me Mose....

[MissGoddess]

>

> Yeah, and I know how you fight...

>

>

 

 

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET WILLIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE BOY!

 

I just love my Doctor John. I need me some medicine quick.

[FrankGrimes]

And did I say the dance was Fordian? I am happy to take credit for it... but I don't

remember saying it. Maybe I am losing my mind..... just call me Mose....

 

My mistake! You said the funeral scene was Fordian. Funeral, dance, it's all

the same. Well, at least when me and Belle shake a rug. You are right about the

funeral scene being Fordian. And I'm just all wrong.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> OH... you beat me to the "A woman and her things" ramble....

>

 

It 'tweren't a ramble worth mentionin', ma'am, so you just git right in there and

speak yor piece.

 

(I've got to stop watching all these Will Rogers movies...)

 

> And did I say the dance was Fordian? I am happy to take credit for it... but I don't remember saying it.

>

> Maybe I am losing my mind..... just call me Mose....

 

I believe you did, Mose. Thank you kindly!

[EvePeabody]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> And I think using the "fine" china speaks to Cinemafan's brilliant observation about

> Marian wearing dresses from this day forth. She feels like a woman again and she

> really likes that feeling.

>

 

A brilliant observation, indeed! Of course Marian had a lot of reasons to feel happy with her feminity, especially with two handsome men around the house!

 

> That's right, things like that mean a lot to a woman. This reminds me of..

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

An excellent association, although I haven't seen "Drums Along the Mohawk" for the longest time. But I'm sure there would be similarities between the two female leads.

 

> My mistake! You said the funeral scene was Fordian. Funeral, dance, it's all

> the same. Well, at least when me and Belle shake a rug. You are right about the

> funeral scene being Fordian. And I'm just all wrong.

 

Oh, you can probably say that again.

 

> It 'tweren't a ramble worth mentionin', ma'am, so you just git right in there and

> speak yor piece.

>

> (I've got to stop watching all these Will Rogers movies...)

 

Awww but that's such a good impression!

[rohanaka]

HOLD ON...... let's back this apple cart up here a minute .......

 

HIYA Mr. Grimes..... FIRST before I "slam you" (Ha) I just want to commend YOU (and Molo as well as Ms G and Ms Favell ) for the really nice job w/ all the screencaps. Great job everybody.

You all and a few others have brought up some REALLY fine points in this thread and this has turned out to be an interesting discussion (if you can wade through all the OTHER stuff that is on here)

 

But Grey Guy... I wanted to say specifically what a great job you have been doing lately w/ all these rambles... this one included. I especially like your knack for picking up so many of the good points here from other folks and expanding them out even further....

 

BUT I have to ask.... HOW did THIS happen???????

 

First you said.....

 

I actually believe Joe is an even better man than Shane, he's just not a gunslinger.

 

And THEN you said....

 

Shane IS the better man but Shane doesn't have Marian.

 

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!

 

And PS..... I think you are WRONG on both accounts by the way.... I think BOTH men are equal in terms of integrity and decency. They each have their strong suits in different areas of life... but in terms of one being better than the other.... I don't think so. I would say they are DIFFERENT men... And because of their differences.... they may come at life from different ways.... but both are equally honorable and both are worthy of the respect I(and love) they earn from the people around them.

 

And PSS.... About all these cracks you've been making lately about my cooking.... HUH! Pretty fancy talk from a guy who only eats SAWDUST (and LIKES it). If you aren't careful.... I will have the Easter Bunny put some sort of crushed up VEGGIE surprise in your Jelly Beans... you'll NEVER see it coming, my friend.

 

All kidding aside.... Great rambling, sir. You make this board a brighter place... Mr. NOIR. (I know... I am ruining your reputation for being such a rotten guy right now.. aint I a stinker?)

 

FRIENDS... Once in a while, it is easy to lose sight of the things that we all enjoy about this message board... but not for very long. Keep looking for what is GOOD and RIGHT about this place, I say. It's still there... if you know where to look.

[CineMaven]

Naaaah, I have nothing to contribute, but I just LOVE reading ramblers ramble. Nice.

 

I miss it...

[MarianStarrett]

And PS..... I think you are WRONG on both accounts by the way.... I think BOTH men are equal in terms of integrity and decency. They each have their strong suits in different areas of life... but in terms of one being better than the other.... I don't think so. I would say they are DIFFERENT men... And because of their differences.... they may come at life from different ways.... but both are equally honorable and both are worthy of the respect I(and love) they earn from the people around them.

 

I agree with Kathy on this one. They're both great guys in their own way, each with different strengths (and liabilities) due to their background, their experiences. For Joe, never having been a gunfighter or anything like that was a great liability in terms of facing the Rykers, especially once they brought Wilson into the picture, but it was also a great strength in that it made it possible to have a long-lasting marriage with a wonderful woman like Marion.

[movieman1957]

SIr Francis:

 

One thing to add to Joe's declaration that he wouldn't trade places with anyone is the line just before it when talking about giving up his freedom he says "No man ever gave it up more willingly." As fine a sentiment to me and just as important as the one you mention.

[MarianStarrett]

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}

> One thing to add to Joe's declaration that he wouldn't trade places with anyone is the line just before it when talking about giving up his freedom he says "No man ever gave it up more willingly." As fine a sentiment to me and just as important as the one you mention.

 

Wasn't that a romantic thing for Joe to say? Marian couldn't have been a luckier gal! :x

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Inelegant Gal -- HIYA Mr. Grimes..... FIRST before I "slam you" (Ha)

I just want to commend YOU (and Molo as well as Ms G and Ms Favell ) for the

really nice job w/ all the screencaps. Great job everybody. You all and a few others

have brought up some REALLY fine points in this thread and this has turned out to

be an interesting discussion (if you can wade through all the OTHER stuff that is on

here)

 

I have enjoyed the discussion, as well, despite a snippy hostess. Whatever happened to

the sweet girls? Ohhh, geez, look who I'm asking.

 

But Grey Guy... I wanted to say specifically what a great job you have been doing

lately w/ all these rambles... this one included. I especially like your knack for

picking up so many of the good points here from other folks and expanding them out

even further.

 

Thank you, Piecemaker. You sure do know how to butter a rope.

 

I always let others do the heavy lifting. It's the manly thing to do.

 

BUT I have to ask.... HOW did THIS happen??????? First you said..... I actually

believe Joe is an even better man than Shane, he's just not a gunslinger. And THEN

you said.... Shane IS the better man but Shane doesn't have Marian. MAKE UP

YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!

 

Crap! You're not supposed to pay attention, Hawkgirl! Stop that!

 

And PS..... I think you are WRONG on both accounts by the way.... I think

BOTH men are equal in terms of integrity and decency. They each have their

strong suits in different areas of life... but in terms of one being better than the

other.... I don't think so. I would say they are DIFFERENT men... And because

of their differences.... they may come at life from different ways.... but both are

equally honorable and both are worthy of the respect I(and love) they earn from

the people around them.

 

Well, I cannot disagree with anything you said. And I love that you called me out on my

contradictive statements. You need to keep this lowdown lyin' Yankee honest.

 

Let's see if I can worm my way out of a hangin'. Subjectively, I believe Joe is the better

man. Objectively, I believe it's Shane. I think Shane IS the better man in terms of

intelligence, physical talent, and human sense. The "measurables." He's clearly a

better gunslinger, but he's also a better dancer. He just does things a little better

than Joe. However, the reason why I personally believe Joe is the better man is

because he can become a productive member of a community and the head of a

household with greater ease than Shane because of where they've been in their lives

and who they are. These are the "immeasurables" to me. Joe is a very

comfortable man and this is why I personally believe he's the better man. Despite

Shane being the better of Joe at so many different things, he's an uncomfortable

man.

 

There are guys in the world who are just better than other guys at many, many things.

They are naturally talented and their intelligence level and human sense happens to be

quite high. Most honest men can tell you when another guy is better than them at

something. However, the most talented, the strongest, the smartest, the richest,

and the wisest of men don't always make for the best man. They don't always "fit." Joe

is the kind of guy who "fits." Shane does not.

 

Women are extremely aware of when their man isn't as good as another man

at certain things. They also understand the difference between comfortable and

uncomfortable men. I believe Marian knows the difference between Shane and

Joe. That's not to say she thinks less of Joe or loves Shane more, though.

 

Interestingly, in the film The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, I believe Hallie

views Ranse as the "better" man but I believe she comes to realize Tom was the

more comfortable one.

 

And PSS.... About all these cracks you've been making lately about my

cooking.... HUH! Pretty fancy talk from a guy who only eats SAWDUST

(and LIKES it). If you aren't careful.... I will have the Easter Bunny put some sort

of crushed up VEGGIE surprise in your Jelly Beans... you'll NEVER see it coming,

my friend.

 

You sound like my one friend who used to tell me back when I was in my early-20s

that he'd spike my soda with alcohol to get me to drink.

 

All kidding aside.... Great rambling, sir. You make this board a brighter

place... Mr. NOIR. (I know... I am ruining your reputation for being such a rotten

guy right now.. aint I a stinker?)

 

Quit it! You know the truth. I'm the guy who hates women and only wishes to see

them suffer. I'm evil. Why do you think I use such horrible words like "snippy" and

"floozy" and "inelegant" and "indecorous" and "snob" and "tramp"? That's right, because

I'm a gentleman.

 

FRIENDS... Once in a while, it is easy to lose sight of the things that we all enjoy

about this message board... but not for very long. Keep looking for what is GOOD

and RIGHT about this place, I say. It's still there... if you know where to look.

 

Now that's something we agree on, me lady. Thank you for saying it. Now we need to

work on believing it.

 

May you and your family have a loving Easter. In otherwords, I hope someone else is

cooking Easter dinner.

 

Howdy, Lively Gal -- Naaaah, I have nothing to contribute, but I just LOVE

reading ramblers ramble. Nice. I miss it...

 

Now this ain't the lively gal I know and care about. Oh, wait, let me change that. I must

be my evil self. The heck with you and your lovely self, CineBabe. I've seen your

TCM spot and I don't care if I find you to be downright charming, brilliant, and easy on

the eyes. You're a gal and that's no good in my men-are-always-right book.

 

Thank you for not being the fan programmer who chose Gone With the Wind. It

just doesn't get any worse than that. I cannot imagine a person selecting such a

trashy film. But there are some that came close. Meet John Doe? Gary Cooper?

Dreadful!

 

I still owe you. A very Happy Easter to you and your family.

 

Howdy, CowboyChris -- One thing to add to Joe's declaration that he wouldn't

trade places with anyone is the line just before it when talking about giving up his

freedom he says "No man ever gave it up more willingly." As fine a sentiment to me

and just as important as the one you mention.

 

Very good point. Joe isn't a stubborn billy goat like someone I know intimately.

 

I hope you and your family have a Happy Easter.

 

And Happy Easter to all those who celebrate the holiday.

[MarianStarrett]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Thank you for not being the fan programmer who chose Gone With the Wind. It just doesn't get any worse than that. I cannot imagine a person selecting such a trashy film. But there are some that came close. Meet John Doe? Gary Cooper?

> Dreadful!

>

 

Honestly, what movie could be better than "Gone with the Wind", since it's the first movie that TCM ever played? I think it's a terrific choice, personally.

 

>

> And Happy Easter to all those who celebrate the holiday.

 

Thanks and likewise! B-)

[cinemafan]

FrankG, For some reason, you have quite a following here. Looks like you have many more friends than foes though.

 

I wanted to add a couple of things -

 

Ok,ok, Marian did want to look nice for company. She probably hadn't had any in quite a while. But, I'm sure she was glad to get out of those pants - which to me indicated that she had to do "men's work" with Joe because there was no one else, and so much work to do. No wonder she liked Shane, he took over half the load. Just keeping up a house and garden was killer back then. The only other movies where I've seen women wear pants in those days were tomboys or wearing super tight pants and shirt, in a different kind of western, with a different director.

 

Re: Torrey. He just didn't have the understanding of other men's psyches - the extent that people would go to. I guess you could say he was a simple man, who was ruled by his emotions. Too bad for his family though, as they were left alone.

 

This part stands out for me - in the first confrontation, when Shane is surrounded by a bunch of Ryker's gang, and Joey says to him 'There's too many, Shane' or close to that. In fact, he says it twice. Reminds me of choosing to live to fight another day. That's also the wisdom that Torrey lacked.

 

FrankG, if you have not seen 3:10 to Yuma (old version of course), please do. I think you will like it. Van Heflin plays a similar sort of guy there. Glenn Ford, another one of my favorites, is great in it.