Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman Missing Dialogue

[Janet0312]

Have you guys seen this? Is it for real? 

 

 

[Det Jim McLeod]

28 minutes ago, Janet0312 said:

Have you guys seen this? Is it for real? 

yes, I have pieces of that dialogue in the book It's Alive: The Classic Cinema Saga Of Frankenstein by Gregory William Mank, so it is true that those scenes were in the script and were filmed. According to the screenwriter Curt Siodmak, they screened it for the Universal staff and they were in hysterics when they heard Lugosi's Hungarian accent coming out of the Monster. In the previous film "The Ghost Of Frankenstein" the brain of Ygor (Lugosi) was put into the skull of the Monster, he has the Lugosi/Ygor voice at the end of the film but goes blind. This explains the dialogue about having clever brain put into him by Frankenstein's son. After the disastrous screening they decided to cut out all of the Monster's dialogue. 

[Janet0312]

4 minutes ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

yes, I have pieces of that dialogue in the book It's Alive: The Classic Cinema Saga Of Frankenstein by Gregory William Mank, so it is true that those scenes were in the script and were filmed. According to the screenwriter Curt Siodmak, they screened it for the Universal staff and they were in hysterics when they heard Lugosi's Hungarian accent coming out of the Monster. In the previous film "The Ghost Of Frankenstein" the brain of Ygor (Lugosi) was put into the skull of the Monster, he has the Lugosi/Ygor voice at the end of the film but goes blind. This explains the dialogue about having clever brain put into him by Frankenstein's son. After the disastrous screening they decided to cut out all of the Monster's dialogue. 

Thank you, Detective Jim. It makes perfect sense, at least to me, that the monster's dialogue would be so. I'm jumpin' and jivin' at this. I have been wondering for 40... well, maybe 45 years about this. I've got to pull my Mank book out, dust it off, and do a bit of reading. You know, this book has been out of print for years. I have a library copy that was a gift. I yearned for this book for ages. This is huge in my world. I think it was an abomination that Universal deleted Lugosi's dialogue from the film and it sits in some obscure cutting room floor. Gosh, it makes so much sense now. Oh, man!!!!

[Det Jim McLeod]

3 minutes ago, Janet0312 said:

I've got to pull my Mank book out, dust it off, and do a bit of reading.

Yes, Janet, it is my favorite film book I own. All eight Universal Frankenstein films are discussed with meticulous detail with a lot of behind the scenes stories and rare photographs.

[Princess of Tap]

I never was aware that the screen Frankenstein had such a fluent ability or knowledge of the English language.

All of this explanation in this dialogue would be going against the Frankenstein screen Legend.

Bela Lugosi had a very difficult time with this part at his age with his obvious health problems.

 What I found particularly  sad about his portrayal was his inability to separate the Frankenstein character from his legendary Dracula character. His lecherous, vulgar approach to and around Ilona Massey was not only disgusting, but ridiculous looking.

 I think Lugosi always regretted missing out on that original opportunity to play Frankenstein. But he was just so wrong for the role.

I think this sequel had a lot of potential if they had chosen  a different actor to play Frankenstein. And the best person to do that ironically would have been Lon Chaney Jr.

Despite everything this movie is still entertaining and well within the Universal professional level of production, but it hardly comes up to the sequels of Frankenstein from the 1930s and certainly is a weak sequel for Lon's original Wolf Man.

 

[Janet0312]

26 minutes ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

Yes, Janet, it is my favorite film book I own. All eight Universal Frankenstein films are discussed with meticulous detail with a lot of behind the scenes stories and rare photographs.

I was flicking thro channels one day, RetroPlex shows some bizarro films and all of sudden, The Mummy comes on and The Phantom (1943), and on my day off and a super, wicked surprise Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their schedule. But it's a treat, especially with no commercials.

[darkblue]

1 hour ago, Janet0312 said:

Thank you, Detective Jim. It makes perfect sense, at least to me, that the monster's dialogue would be so. I'm jumpin' and jivin' at this. I have been wondering for 40... well, maybe 45 years about this. I've got to pull my Mank book out, dust it off, and do a bit of reading. You know, this book has been out of print for years. I have a library copy that was a gift. I yearned for this book for ages. This is huge in my world. I think it was an abomination that Universal deleted Lugosi's dialogue from the film and it sits in some obscure cutting room floor. Gosh, it makes so much sense now. Oh, man!!!!

Very much so.

The way they decided to go, it's as if 'The Ghost of Frankenstein' never happened and Ygor was never put into the monster's body at all.

Not only was continuity utterly demolished by this decision, the monster itself became nothing more than a stage prop from this chapter onward.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

yes, I have pieces of that dialogue in the book It's Alive: The Classic Cinema Saga Of Frankenstein by Gregory William Mank, so it is true that those scenes were in the script and were filmed. According to the screenwriter Curt Siodmak, they screened it for the Universal staff and they were in hysterics when they heard Lugosi's Hungarian accent coming out of the Monster. In the previous film "The Ghost Of Frankenstein" the brain of Ygor (Lugosi) was put into the skull of the Monster, he has the Lugosi/Ygor voice at the end of the film but goes blind. This explains the dialogue about having clever brain put into him by Frankenstein's son. After the disastrous screening they decided to cut out all of the Monster's dialogue. 

Huh...The need for post-Ghost plot, dialogue and canon WOULD certainly explain the unlikely casting of Lugosi as the Monster in FMtW, as more physically suited (and non-Hungarian) actors like Glenn Strange would play him in the other Universal movies, eg. Abbott & Costello.

And, as the clip points out, the Ygor/Monster being blind does explain that iconic arm-stretched walk we took for granted for years.

[LornaHansonForbes]

dang, you guys are really making me want to check out GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN/ FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLFMAN again.

[LornaHansonForbes]

(not that anyone asked but...)

BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN > FRANKENSTEIN > ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN > GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN > FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLFMAN> SON OF FRANKENSTEIN > HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN > HOUSE OF DRACULA.

[Janet0312]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Huh...The need for post-Ghost plot, dialogue and canon WOULD certainly explain the unlikely casting of Lugosi as the Monster in FMtW, as more physically suited (and non-Hungarian) actors like Glenn Strange would play him in the other Universal movies, eg. Abbott & Costello.

And, as the clip points out, the Ygor/Monster being blind does explain that iconic arm-stretched walk we took for granted for years.

Not to mention that Eddie Parker stood in for Lugosi and even Chaney Jr as the monster in some scenes.

[EricJ]

7 minutes ago, Janet0312 said:

Not to mention that Eddie Parker stood in for Lugosi and even Chaney Jr as the monster in some scenes.

Lon Jr., by the time he was pretty deep in his cups, started to get more and more creative in his stories about the Universal days, and at one point claimed he had to stunt-double for Lugosi as the monster for the majority of the scenes..."I played Frankenstein and the Wolfman in that movie!"

However, that's since taken with the same grain of salt as Judy Garland's Oz-set stories.

1 hour ago, darkblue said:

The way they decided to go, it's as if 'The Ghost of Frankenstein' never happened and Ygor was never put into the monster's body at all.Not only was continuity utterly demolished by this decision, the monster itself became nothing more than a stage prop from this chapter onward.

Always thought the movie had a surprising lack of Frankenstein in it, when I first saw it...Which brings up an interesting thread topic:

What OTHER movies had their entire raison d'être main plot or subplot cut out by the studio at the last minute, leaving...not very much, with no particular reason to be made?

Apart from Superman II, Star Trek: Insurrection, Daredevil, Creepshow II, and Smokey & the Bandit III, what more classic-era examples were there?

[scsu1975]

3 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

 

 What I found particularly  sad about his portrayal was his inability to separate the Frankenstein character from his legendary Dracula character. His lecherous, vulgar approach to and around Ilona Massey was not only disgusting, but ridiculous looking.

There were probably a lot of guys who acted that way around Massey.

[scsu1975]

4 hours ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

According to the screenwriter Curt Siodmak, they screened it for the Universal staff and they were in hysterics when they heard Lugosi's Hungarian accent coming out of the Monster.

I had that same reaction when I first saw Ghost of Frankenstein.

[LornaHansonForbes]

One of the primary reasons that I rate GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN so highly is the fact that the monster *moves fast* in that one. It's almost unsettling how quick and how violent how angry he is. It really is in many ways an early, but faster, incarnation of the later slasher film villains.

[LornaHansonForbes]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Lon Jr., by the time he was pretty deep in his cups, started to get more and more creative in his stories about the Universal days, and at one point claimed he had to stunt-double for Lugosi as the monster for the majority of the scenes..."I played Frankenstein and the Wolfman in that movie!"

However, that's since taken with the same grain of salt as Judy Garland's Oz-set stories.

Always thought the movie had a surprising lack of Frankenstein in it, when I first saw it...Which brings up an interesting thread topic:

What OTHER movies had their entire raison d'être main plot or subplot cut out by the studio at the last minute, leaving...not very much, with no particular reason to be made?

Apart from Superman II, Star Trek: Insurrection, Daredevil, Creepshow II, and Smokey & the Bandit III, what more classic-era examples were there?

TASTE THE BLOOD OF DRACULA wherein Dracula appears in strictly a rather contractually obliged sense immediately comes to mind...

[TomJH]

1 hour ago, scsu1975 said:

There were probably a lot of guys who acted that way around Massey.

[scsu1975]

13 minutes ago, TomJH said:

And I guess you would be one of them ...

[scsu1975]

 

[Ray Faiola]

In the final release print, after Talbot finds the box in the ruins, the Monster follows him and you can see Lugosi's mouth moving as he is calling after his rescuer.

[darkblue]

14 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

One of the primary reasons that I rate GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN so highly is the fact that the monster *moves fast* in that one. It's almost unsettling how quick and how violent how angry he is.

Lon's version of the monster definitely showed a lot more attitude. He's surly.

I once read a comment that opined "Lon Chaney's Frankenstein monster is the one you'd least likely want to meet in a dark alley".

Yep.

[TomJH]

Glenn Strange suffered from a back injury (I believe) while making A & C Meet Frankenstein. Lon Chaney subbed for him as the Monster in the scene in which he picks up Lenore Aubert and throws her through the window.

Chaney may have also subbed as the Monster in the scene in which he walked along the wharf at the end.

I always thought that Strange was the most physically imposing of the actors who played the Monster at Universal.

Today when watching A & C Meet Frankenstein I appreciate the performances of all three actors playing the monsters. This film was the last highlight of Lugosi's career. As a kid, though, it was Chaney's Wolf Man who scared the living daylights out of me, and kept me awake a few nights afterward. A few years later I would write him fan letter telling hm how much he had scared me.

I was thrilled when he sent me his autograph on a card. By the way, even though Chaney had been an alcoholic for years, he had a beautifully legible signature.

[scsu1975]

40 minutes ago, TomJH said:

 

Today when watching A & C Meet Frankenstein I appreciate the performances of all three actors playing the monsters. This film was the last highlight of Lugosi's career. As a kid, though, it was Chaney's Wolf Man who scared the living daylights out of me, and kept me awake a few nights afterward.

 

 

Chaney's transformation scared the crap out of me too. I would always turn away during that part of the film, while laughing at the rest of it.

[TomJH]

16 minutes ago, scsu1975 said:

Chaney's transformation scared the crap out of me too. I would always turn away during that part of the film, while laughing at the rest of it.

I remember sitting on my Dad's lap while watching the film and every time the Wolf Man theme music started to play covering my eyes with my hands, while making a point to peak out between my fingers.

Chaney's Wolf Man makeup for the Abbott and Costello film is different from his previous films. For this film it was an easier application put on by Bud Westmore, as opposed to the more time consuming applications previously by Jack Pierce.

I have to say that I always thought Westmore's Wolf Man look was more frightening than Pierce's.

Westmore makeup

Pierce makeup in Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man

[scsu1975]

18 minutes ago, TomJH said:

I remember sitting on my Dad's lap while watching the film and every time the Wolf Man theme music started to play covering my eyes with my hands, while making a point to peak out between my fingers.

 

Frank Skinner's score for the A & C film is one of the best, if not the best, horror score I've ever heard. He gave each monster its own theme. For the wolfman, it was the growling brass. For Dracula, he used fluttering strings, and for the Monster, he incorporated the pounding timpani.  And he still managed to inject playful music for the funny parts.