Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Aside from Darryl Zanuck you also blame the American movie goer in 1947. Just think of how different Tyrone Power's film career might have been if Nightmare Alley had done well at the box office.

I don't want to. It's too painful, because you know you can't go back and change anything, much as you would like to. All you can do is regret the wasted opportunities.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 11 months later...

*brings this thread back from the dead to voice an unpopular opinion*

Dion O'Leary from In Old Chicago, not Stanton Carlisle from Nightmare Alley, is the least sympathetic character I've ever seen Tyrone Power play. Stanton, at least, is upfront about being selfish and dishonest. Dion just makes my skin crawl.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SunAndMoon said:

*brings this thread back from the dead to voice an unpopular opinion*

Dion O'Leary from In Old Chicago, not Stanton Carlisle from Nightmare Alley, is the least sympathetic character I've ever seen Tyrone Power play. Stanton, at least, is upfront about being selfish and dishonest. Dion just makes my skin crawl.

But he makes it up with Jack before Jack's death, so Ma will not be weepin'. 

I think you're too hard on Dion. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Swithin said:

But he makes it up with Jack before Jack's death, so Ma will not be weepin'. 

I think you're too hard on Dion. 

I agree.      I have always faulted Daisy.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dion's a sleazy, double-crossing [censored] with no regard for personal boundaries. He uses everyone around him for his own gain, including his family members and the woman he claims to love, and unlike Stanton, he never displays any self-awareness about it. Believe me, I would be much harder on him were Tyrone Power not one of the few actors capable of adding sympathy and humanity to just about any character, no matter how unsympathetic. Heck, when you examine Ty's film career as a whole, Nightmare Alley starts looking less like playing against type and more like a logical progression.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, SunAndMoon said:

Dion's a sleazy, double-crossing [censored] with no regard for personal boundaries. He uses everyone around him for his own gain, including his family members and the woman he claims to love, and unlike Stanton, he never displays any self-awareness about it. Believe me, I would be much harder on him were Tyrone Power not one of the few actors capable of adding sympathy and humanity to just about any character, no matter how unsympathetic. Heck, when you examine Ty's film career as a whole, Nightmare Alley starts looking less like playing against type and more like a logical progression.

Well, I think Dion grows, which I think is important to the plot. It took the Chicago Fire to do it, but it's very much like B_lackie Norton/Clark Gable in San Francisco (the success of which inspired the making of In Old Chicago.)

Regarding progression, my favorite Tyrone Power role has always been Jonathan Blake in Lloyds of London, which was actually one of his first roles. He's the star, but he doesn't get billed as such. 

poster-lloyds-of-london_06.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Swithin said:

Regarding progression, my favorite Tyrone Power role has always been Jonathan Blake in Lloyds of London, which was actually one of his first roles. He's the star, but he doesn't get billed as such. 

 

That was the first substantial role of Power's film career, the one that made him a star in 1936. To call that your favourite role is rather insulting to the rest of his career, don't you think so, Swithin? Mark of Zorro, Razor's Edge, Nightmare Alley, Witness for the Prosecution were all yet to come but none of them measure up to Lloyds of London? Certainly as an actor he would grow and do far better work in any of a number of later roles. To my eyes he looks like what he was in Lloyds of London, a rather callow youth too young, even, for his leading lady in the film.

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, TomJH said:

That was the first substantial role of Power's film career, the one that made him a star in 1936. To call that your favourite role is rather insulting to the rest of his career, don't you think so, Swithin? Mark of Zorro, Razor's Edge, Nightmare Alley, Witness for the Prosecution were all yet to come but none of them measure up to Lloyds of London? Certainly as an actor he would grow and do far better work in any of a number of later roles. To my eyes he looks like what he was in Lloyds of London, a rather callow youth too young, even, for his leading lady in the film.

I like lots of Power's films and don't mean to insult them! I said Lloyds of London was my favorite -- it is. Jonathan Blake is a great character, and the final scene, getting up from his sick bed to watch the cortege bearing Horatio Nelson's body, is one of the great endings.  I also tend to like films that begin in childhood and evolve over many decades in the life of a character. And Lloyds is a Henry King film, which is a plus.

I think the first Tyrone Power film I've ever seen -- and it's one I still love -- is The Long Gray Line. I was a very wee lad (6?) when I was taken to see that, and I still remember how I felt when we left the cinema. So if you are troubled, dear Tom, at my affection for the very early Power, you may take solace in the fact that I also particularly like that very late film. And of course I also love Witness for the Protection, which is even later. But Lloyds of London and The Long Gray Line (and The Razor's Edge) are just my kind of movies. 

But of course I like many of the others as well, including the Fox musicals. 

I'm just sorry Power never got to play Rip Van Winkle. You remember the line from the Rodgers and Hart song: 

"Rip Van Winkle on the screen would be smart; Tyrone Power will be cast in the part."

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Swithin said:

I like lots of Power's films and don't mean to insult them! I said Lloyds of London was my favorite -- it is. Jonathan Blake is a great character, and the final scene, getting up from his sick bed to watch the cortege bearing Horatio Nelson's body, is one of the great endings.  I also tend to like films that begin in childhood and evolve over many decades in the life of a character. And Lloyds is a Henry King film, which is a plus.

I think the first Tyrone Power film I've ever seen -- and it's one I still love -- is The Long Gray Line. I was a very wee lad (6?) when I was taken to see that, and I still remember how I felt when we left the cinema. So if you are troubled, dear Tom, at my affection for the very early Power, you may take solace in the fact that I also particularly like that very late film. And of course I also love Witness for the Protection, which is even later. But Lloyds of London and The Long Gray Line (and The Razor's Edge) are just my kind of movies. 

But of course I like many of the others as well, including the Fox musicals. 

I'm just sorry Power never got to play Rip Van Winkle. You remember the line from the Rodgers and Hart song: 

"Rip Van Winkle on the screen would be smart; Tyrone Power will be cast in the part."

I don't know how accurate the comment was since The Picture of Dorian Gray was made at MGM (and Zanuck swore to never loan Power out again after Marie Antoinette) but I had heard that Tyrone had been considered for the title role in that film (I assume they would have pushed the production back until he was returned from the war). I think he would have been far more effective than the actor who played the lead role like a somnambulist.

You're a fan of Henry King, I see, and, of course, Power made more films with him than any other director. But perhaps that was a bit of a problem, in retrospect, when looking back upon the quality of his films. I've noticed that many of the films in Ty's career that people list as favourites were not directed by King, Razor's Edge, Nightmare Alley, Witness for the Prosecution, Long Gray Line, even Abandon Ship. Power appeared in four swashbucklers but, really, how much discussion do you ever see of the three directed by King, as opposed to the one Rouben Mamoulian helmed, the invigorating Mark of Zorro? For my money The Black Swan is probably Power's most entertaining film with King (with apologies to Lloyds of London, Swithin).

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, TomJH said:

I've noticed that many of the films in Ty's career that people list as favourites were not directed by King, Razor's Edge, Nightmare Alley, Witness for the Prosecution, Long Gray Line, even Abandon Ship. Power appeared in four swashbucklers but, really, how much discussion do you ever see of the three directed by King, as opposed to the one Rouben Mamoulian helmed, the invigorating Mark of Zorro? For my money The Black Swan is probably Power's most entertaining film with King (with apologies to Lloyds of London, Swithin).

I'm not so much a fan of actors as a fan of certain types of movies. I don't get crushes on movie actors (which was part of the OP's situation). I think Nightmare Alley and Abandon Ship are great performances; I just don't like the movies much. I'm not criticizing how good/great they may be; just not for me, though I like them well enough.  For some reason, although I love Mamoulian's work (I think Love Me Tonight is a masterpiece),  I just don't like The Mark of Zorro very much.  Decades ago, I had to show a 16mm print to a group of children, as part of my job. When we were in the midst of the film, we realized that the last reel was missing. My colleague and I made up the end of the story and told it to the kids.

 I think you extrapolated my one mention of Henry King for some kind of worship. I actually don't like The Black Swan much. It's all a question of taste.

Power was one of the actors originally considered for Kings Row, but Fox couldn't borrow him. Kings Row is just the type of movie that I like. It's a great film, but it would have been better with Power.

I love Witness for the Prosecution. You can't glimpse that film without feeling compelled to watch the whole thing, which is interesting, because when it premiered they made such a marketing fuss, admonishing audiences not to reveal the ending. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the film to see it again and again!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a soft spot for Prince of Foxes, myself. Son of Fury is another good one nobody talks about. I didn't hate The Black Swan, but it wasn't one of my favorites.

What did you think of his performance in This Above All?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Swithin said:

I'm not so much a fan of actors as a fan of certain types of movies. I don't get crushes on movie actors (which was part of the OP's situation). I think Nightmare Alley and Abandon Ship are great performances; I just don't like the movies much. I'm not criticizing how good/great they may be; just not for me, though I like them well enough.  For some reason, although I love Mamoulian's work (I think Love Me Tonight is a masterpiece),  I just don't like The Mark of Zorro very much.  Decades ago, I had to show a 16mm print to a group of children, as part of my job. When we were in the midst of the film, we realized that the last reel was missing. My colleague and I made up the end of the story and told it to the kids.

 I think you extrapolated my one mention of Henry King for some kind of worship. I actually don't like The Black Swan much. It's all a question of taste.

Power was one of the actors originally considered for Kings Row, but Fox couldn't borrow him. Kings Row is just the type of movie that I like. It's a great film, but it would have been better with Power.

I love Witness for the Prosecution. You can't glimpse that film without feeling compelled to watch the whole thing, which is interesting, because when it premiered they made such a marketing fuss, admonishing audiences not to reveal the ending. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the film to see it again and again!

Well, as you said, it's a matter of taste. I think The Mark of Zorro is one of the great swashbucklers (since you don't care for this film, Swithin, I assume you don't care for swashbucklers as a genre). Power demonstrates a deft, light touch in his scenes posing as as fop, while also looking terrific in the final duel. And I'm a little surprised you also don't like either Nightmare Alley (the first studio "A" production, I believe, to deal with charlatans exploiting man's belief in the hereafter) or Abandon Ship, a grim realistic presentation of survival that poses a moral quandary for the audience, though you acknowledge the high quality of Power's work in both of them.

I agree that Kings Row would have been better if Tyrone had played Parris. Cummings gives the one performance in that film that I don't much like.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, SunAndMoon said:

I have a soft spot for Prince of Foxes, myself. Son of Fury is another good one nobody talks about. I didn't hate The Black Swan, but it wasn't one of my favorites.

What did you think of his performance in This Above All?

I like Prince of Foxes ("Out pops the jelly!") and Son of Fury, too. This Above All I managed to get through but it comes across to me as a self important message film and the scene in which Joan Fontaine goes on about Britain, while important as propaganda for its time, dates the film today. This was also an attempt at a more serious role for Power as an actor. I can't recall that he made that much of an impression upon me in it, certainly nothing compared to Nightmare Alley.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Well, as you said, it's a matter of taste. I think The Mark of Zorro is one of the great swashbucklers (since you don't care for this film, Swithin, I assume you don't care for swashbucklers as a genre). Power demonstrates a deft, light touch in his scenes posing as as fop, while also looking terrific in the final duel. And I'm a little surprised you also don't like either Nightmare Alley (the first studio "A" production, I believe, to deal with charlatans exploiting man's belief in the hereafter) or Abandon Ship, a grim realistic presentation of survival that poses a moral quandary for the audience, though you acknowledge the high quality of Power's work in both of them.

I agree that Kings Row would have been better if Tyrone had played Parris. Cummings gives the one performance in that film that I don't much like.

Well, I don't really dislike Nightmare Alley and Abandon Ship. They're just not particular favorites of mine. There are many "great" movies that I'm not particularly fond of. 

Maybe I don't like swashbucklers that much, though I have enjoyed some.  I like Robin Hood, The Sea Hawk, and Captain Blood, but maybe that's more for the whole story (including the great scores) rather than all the swashbuckling. Maybe I only like swashbuckler films with music by Korngold, or with Errol Flynn (though I like him, he alone is not enough for me to like a film._

Btw, speaking of Mamoulian, he directed the original Broadway productions of four seminal musicals: Porgy and Bess; Oklahoma!; Carousel, and Lost in the Stars.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Swithin said:

Well, I don't really dislike Nightmare Alley and Abandon Ship. They're just not particular favorites of mine. There are many "great" movies that I'm not particularly fond of. 

Maybe I don't like swashbucklers that much, though I have enjoyed some.  I like Robin Hood, The Sea Hawk, and Captain Blood, but maybe that's more for the whole story (including the great scores) rather than all the swashbuckling. Maybe I only like swashbuckler films with music by Korngold, or with Errol Flynn (though I like him, he alone is not enough for me to like a film._

Btw, speaking of Mamoulian, he directed the original Broadway productions of four seminal musicals: Porgy and Bess; Oklahoma!; Carousel, and Lost in the Stars.

 

With regards to The Mark of Zorro;   I don't view this as a swashbuckler film at all, but instead more of a camp classic (like Johnny Guitar isn't a western).

Other than the scenes between Power and Rathbone there is little tension,   and everything is played for a laugh.     This includes much of the romance angle.    Take the difference between the head bad-guys in Don Luis Quintero versus Prince John.    One is a clown,  playing it for laughs,   and one brings tension and creates fear.    The action scenes in Mark are all so 'clean' and while one can assume that people are getting killed,  any violence is done with a wink and a smile.

I still enjoy The Mark of Zorro and as I noted the scenes between Power and Rathbone are right up there with those in Robin Hood.      But I don't view Mark as being in the same vein as those Flynn action  \ adventure films.    

 PS:   I really like The Black Swan;   Like the Flynn films there is a great balance of action, tension,  humor and romance,  with fine performances especially by Laird Cregar.     Even George Sanders in costume does a fine turn.    

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Swithin said:

Well, I don't really dislike Nightmare Alley and Abandon Ship. They're just not particular favorites of mine. There are many "great" movies that I'm not particularly fond of. 

Maybe I don't like swashbucklers that much, though I have enjoyed some.  I like Robin Hood, The Sea Hawk, and Captain Blood, but maybe that's more for the whole story (including the great scores) rather than all the swashbuckling. Maybe I only like swashbuckler films with music by Korngold, or with Errol Flynn (though I like him, he alone is not enough for me to like a film._

Btw, speaking of Mamoulian, he directed the original Broadway productions of four seminal musicals: Porgy and Bess; Oklahoma!; Carousel, and Lost in the Stars.

 

I used to think of myself as a fan of swashbucklers, being raised as a kid on the three Flynn films you named, as well as Ty Power's Zorro. As the years rolled by, though, I came to realize that they were pretty much the best films of the genre ever made (those four plus perhaps three or four others). Most swashbucklers leave me a little cold, though I find the very best of the genre among the most enjoyable films I've ever seen.

It's a challenge, for starters, to find the right leading man for these films. He must be athletic but at the same time charming and light hearted but without seeming to be laughing at the material. It's tough finding  actors who were truly convincing in this genre without seeming a little bit silly in costume attire.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TomJH said:

I used to think of myself as a fan of swashbucklers, being raised as a kid on the three Flynn films you named, as well as Ty Power's Zorro. As the years rolled by, though, I came to realize that they were pretty much the best films of the genre ever made (those four plus perhaps three or four others). Most swashbucklers leave me a little cold, though I find the very best of the genre among the most enjoyable films I've ever seen.

Speaking of our childhood experiences and swashbuckling, when I was very young I was taken to see The Buccaneer (1958), which I loved. I haven't seen it since and don't know how I'd feel about it today. I don't think I've ever seen the 1938 De Mille version. The gala Hollywood premiere of the 1938 version is featured at the climax of The Day of The Locust (1975), in that very powerful and bizarre scene, when fans who have come to see the celebrities attending the premiere turn rather nasty and do unkind things to poor Donald Sutherland (who btw gives his greatest performance, playing Homer Simpson!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I mentioned this early on in my membership here.  But longtime local movie host BILL KENNEDY once made the claim about the big change in Tyrone Power's "look" after he returned from serving in WWII.  Claiming it was then that he became more manly looking, losing his "pretty boy" persona.  I can't speak to that, as I never noticed any transition.  And JAMES.....

As a musician, I thought you'd appreciate THE EDDIE DUCHIN STORY.  Thought Power did a fine job in that.  ;)  And really, the music ain't all that bad.

Sepiatone

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I think I mentioned this early on in my membership here.  But longtime local movie host BILL KENNEDY once made the claim about the big change in Tyrone Power's "look" after he returned from serving in WWII.  Claiming it was then that he became more manly looking, losing his "pretty boy" persona.  I can't speak to that, as I never noticed any transition.  And JAMES.....

As a musician, I thought you'd appreciate THE EDDIE DUCHIN STORY.  Thought Power did a fine job in that.  ;)  And really, the music ain't all that bad.

Sepiatone

I really enjoyed The Eddie Duchin Story.    All the acting was fine,  by Power as well as the actresses in Kim Novak and Victoria Shaw,   and best of all James Whitmore (just giving another first rate what-a-buddy-to-have performance).    The overall music was good especially the jazz practice session scene when the kids shows us the future is safe in their hand!

(little did they know that it really wasn't with Rock and Roll just around the corner (ha ha).

While the ending is sad,  it doesn't drag down the film and that final duet between the father and son,   always gets to me.

Eddyduchinstorymp.jpg

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, my Amazon Prime watchlist is about to get a lot longer...

Jesse James is an early film that stands out to me, mainly because I find it odd that they'd cast a pretty boy like him as a criminal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SunAndMoon said:

Well, my Amazon Prime watchlist is about to get a lot longer...

Jesse James is an early film that stands out to me, mainly because I find it odd that they'd cast a pretty boy like him as a criminal.

You have to remember here SunAndMoon that by 1939 and the year Ty starred as Jesse James, the collective and by then accepted narrative about this outlaw was that he was more an American Old West version of Robin Hood than he was thought of as a wanton criminal.

This rewriting of his life story and public image pretty much began in the late-19th century when the eponymous folk song "Jesse James" (you might remember the following lines from it: "But that dirty little coward (meaning Bob Ford) who shot Mr. Howard (Jesse's by then new acquired name "Tom Howard", and who Ford shot in the back), and laid poor Jesse in his grave", spread throughout the country and then even more so the next (20th) century when recordings of the song were made popular by many various singers.

(...in fact, I remember my father singing those lines at home when I was very young in the 1950s, and whenever the name "Jesse James" would somehow come up)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SunAndMoon said:

Abandon Ship! sounds even more disturbing than Nightmare Alley. Not sure it's for me.

Abandon Ship is an excellent film and shows what a great actor Tyrone was. If you want to get a full picture of Ty's acting abilities then it's a must see.  I love Ty as most know around here and thought he was one of the most handsome actors ever on screen, but if you're going to be a real fan of his you should see as many of his films as you can, not just the ones that showcase his physical beauty but his ability to portray different characters without just relying on his good looks.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Dargo said:

You have to remember here SunAndMoon that by 1939 and the year Ty starred as Jesse James, the collective and by then accepted narrative about this outlaw was that he was more an American Old West version of Robin Hood than he was thought of as a wanton criminal.

This rewriting of his life story and public image pretty much began in the late-19th century when the eponymous folk song "Jesse James" (you might remember the following lines from it: "But that dirty little coward (meaning Bob Ford) who shot Mr. Howard (Jesse's by then new acquired name "Tom Howard", and who Ford shot in the back), and laid poor Jesse in his grave", spread throughout the country and then even more so the next (20th) century when recordings of the song were made popular by many various singers.

(...in fact, I remember my father singing those lines at home when I was very young in the 1950s, and whenever the name "Jesse James" would somehow come up)

I first heard that tune at the end of the ROBERT WAGNER '57 version of James' story.  Kinda tickled me as it gave the impression that the tune was made up just seconds after Ford shot him.  ;)  Was sung by some old guy carrying a beat up old guitar as he walked away from the scene of the crime with Ford(Carl Thayler) looking on in dismay.

Sepiatone

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2021 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...