"Think ya used enough 'comic relief' there Butch..um, I mean Mr. Ford?

[Dargo]

Yeah, I just paraphrased a famous line in one western so as to make a point about another one.

So, the point being here that I finally got around to watching John Ford's supposed "apology to the Native American", Cheyenne Autumn (1964), the other day when it was shown on TCM, and I started wondering what the hell the old director was thinking when in his film, a telling of the terrible plight suffered my the Cheyenne Indian tribe in Oklahoma and their attempt to return to their Wyoming homelands against the wishes of the U.S. Government of the time, it suddenly turned into some kind of farce starring a VERY miscast Jimmy Stewart playing Wyatt Earp?!!!

What, perhaps the old one-eyed director was starting to lose it by the time he made this film? I dunno, but it sure as hell seemed like it could have been the case in THIS case, anyway.

(...and btw, my alternate title for this thread was gonna be, "Think ya used Monument Valley enough as a stand in for every other damn part of The West there Butch..um, I mean Mr. Ford", as Oklahoma and where the Cheyenne were herded to looks NOTHING like Monument Valley Utah of course, but I wasn't sure all that would fit in the allotted space these here TCM boards give ya to title a thread)

 

[TopBilled]

Whew, glad you got that off your chest, Dargo!  

I agree that Ford tended to use Monument Valley for everything.

[Dargo]

1 minute ago, TopBilled said:

Whew, glad you got that off your chest, Dargo!  

I agree that Ford tended to use Monument Valley for everything.

LOL

Yeah, TB! I DO somehow feel better now, thank you very much!

 

[mr6666]

thanks Dargo.............Yes I always LOATHED that scene too!

[TomJH]

I find Ford's humour to be a problem in a lot of his films. It's usually pretty broad and at times can be quite slapsticky. Obviously the old man liked it that way.

Even as great and serious a film as THE SEARCHERS has that stupid "humorous" scene in which Jeffrey Hunter and Ken Curtis get into a fight over Vera Miles. Painful miscalculation on Ford's part, in my opinion.

The other thing about Ford is his love for the sound of male choruses. How many of his films, in particular his cavalry western trio, have the viewers have to sit through a sentimental moment of men singing in perfect unison with one another. Ugh!

 

[scsu1975]

46 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Yeah, I just paraphrased a famous line in one western so as to make a point about another one.

So, the point being here that I finally got around to watching John Ford's supposed "apology to the Native American", Cheyenne Autumn (1964), the other day when it was shown on TCM, and I started wondering what the hell the old director was thinking when in his film, a telling of the terrible plight suffered my the Cheyenne Indian tribe in Oklahoma and their attempt to return to their Wyoming homelands against the wishes of the U.S. Government of the time, it suddenly turned into some kind of farce starring a VERY miscast Jimmy Stewart playing Wyatt Earp?!!!

What, perhaps the old one-eyed director was starting to lose it by the time he made this film? I dunno, but it sure as hell seemed like it could have been the case in THIS case, anyway.

(...and btw, my alternate title for this thread was gonna be, "Think ya used Monument Valley enough as a stand in for every other damn part of The West there Butch..um, I mean Mr. Ford", as Oklahoma and where the Cheyenne were herded to looks NOTHING like Monument Valley Utah of course, but I wasn't sure all that would fit in the allotted space these here TCM boards give ya to title a thread)

 

1.The episode with Jimmy Stewart was obviously meant to be the bathroom break.

2. The Cheyenne were lost ... they had no GPS.

3. You didn't ask, but why didn't they refilm that scene where the horse takes a dump behind Carroll Baker when the Cheyenne are moving out of their camp? She was talking to Montalban or Roland ... can't remember which, because, as we all know, all those Spanish actors playing Indians look alike.

 

[Dargo]

42 minutes ago, scsu1975 said:

1.The episode with Jimmy Stewart was obviously meant to be the bathroom break.

2. The Cheyenne were lost ... they had no GPS.

3. You didn't ask, but why didn't they refilm that scene where the horse takes a dump behind Carroll Baker when the Cheyenne are moving out of their camp? She was talking to Montalban or Roland ... can't remember which, because, as we all know, all those Spanish actors playing Indians look alike.

 

1. Yeah, that must be it alright, Rich. However, at least Ford placed it just before the intermission as I recall, and so can you imagine if he had placed it right after the intermission and you as an audience member had left to "go do your business" during said intermission, returned to your seat, and then THIS sequence began showing as the lights dimmed? You'd probably think you had just walked back into the wrong theater, now wouldn't you?! 

2. So, you're sayin' it wasn't just the "Fugawi" tribe that supposedly had this same problem occasionally, are ya?!

3. DANG! I must've missed that somehow!!!

(...oh and btw, nah, telling Montalban from Gilbert in the movies was always easy...NOW, telling Montalban from Lamas, THAT could be a bit difficult sometimes...I'm talkin' FERNANDO Lamas here of course, NOT those cute little South American camel-like ruminants, of course) 

 

[laffite]

42 minutes ago, TomJH said:

I find Ford's humour to be a problem in a lot of his films.

...and sometimes with a painful assist by Vic M.

[TomJH]

14 minutes ago, laffite said:

...and sometimes with a painful assist by Vic M.

Yeh, that Victor Mature in My Darling Clementine. What a cut up.

[Dargo]

36 minutes ago, laffite said:

...and sometimes with a painful assist by Vic M.

Yep, definitely laffite.

In fact, one of the things I found refreshing about Cheyenne Autumn was that Ford used big Mike Mazurki in the usual McLaglen-Ford film role(McLaglen dying 5 years earlier), and that at least in HIS big scene in CA, the one he shares with Widmark while in a tent drinking whiskey and telling Widmark his tour-of-duty is over with the U.S. Army, Muzurki brings up his Polish heritage.

(...you see I found THAT "refreshing" not only because big Mike played his role with such aplomb and much more subtly than big Vic could ever seem to muster, but ALSO because at least it wasn't just ANOTHER damn "Kiss o' the ol' Blarney Stone"/"Up the Irish" thing that Ford just could almost never resist throwin' into every damn movie of his!)

[scsu1975]

3 hours ago, Dargo said:

Yep, definitely laffite.

In fact, one of the things I found refreshing about Cheyenne Autumn was that Ford used big Mike Mazurki in the usual McLaglen-Ford film role(McLaglen dying 5 years earlier), and that at least in HIS big scene in CA, the one he shares with Widmark while in a tent drinking whiskey and telling Widmark his tour-of-duty is over with the U.S. Army, Muzurki brings up his Polish heritage.

(...you see I found THAT "refreshing" not only because big Mike played his role with such aplomb and much more subtly than big Vic could ever seem to muster, but ALSO because at least it wasn't just ANOTHER damn "Kiss o' the ol' Blarney Stone"/"Up the Irish" thing that Ford just could almost never resist throwin' into every damn movie of his!)

Mazurki was a solid actor (and he had to be, since he was a wrestler). He does an excellent job as the soldier in Cheyenne Autumn, expressing his disgust to Widmark over what is happening to the Indians.

Mazurki played quite a few sports, including a brief stint in professional football for a few teams. But it is not generally known that he was a pretty good violinist, before athletics wrecked his fingers.

Here he is menacing Anne Shirley with another famous tough guy, Wee Willie Davis:

As for William Grundy (Wee Willie) Davis, I just discovered I had something in common with him. He was a graduate of Virginia Tech. I spent one year there ... close enough.

[scsu1975]

4 hours ago, Dargo said:

 

(...oh and btw, nah, telling Montalban from Gilbert in the movies was always easy...NOW, telling Montalban from Lamas, THAT could be a bit difficult sometimes...I'm talkin' FERNANDO Lamas here of course, NOT those cute little South American camel-like ruminants, of course) 

 

Just ask each one to pronounce "rich Corinthian leather."

[Dargo]

1 hour ago, scsu1975 said:

Mazurki was a solid actor (and he had to be, since he was a wrestler). He does an excellent job as the soldier in Cheyenne Autumn, expressing his disgust to Widmark over what is happening to the Indians.

Mazurki played quite a few sports, including a brief stint in professional football for a few teams. But it is not generally known that he was a pretty good violinist, before athletics wrecked his fingers.

Here he is menacing Anne Shirley with another famous tough guy, Wee Willie Davis:

As for William Grundy (Wee Willie) Davis, I just discovered I had something in common with him. He was a graduate of Virginia Tech. I spent one year there ... close enough.

Nice write up on Mazurki here, Rich.

Now, you mentioned Big Mike was a wrestler for a while here, and so you KNOW I've gotta ask the following here...

Did he ever square-off in the squared circle with your boy Tor?

(...they were about the same age, I believe)

[Dargo]

1 hour ago, scsu1975 said:

Just ask each one to pronounce "rich Corinthian leather."

Yeah, not a bad suggestion here.

OR, you could've asked each of 'em to say, "It's not how you feel, it's how you look, and YOU look marvelous!"

[scsu1975]

9 hours ago, Dargo said:

Nice write up on Mazurki here, Rich.

Now, you mentioned Big Mike was a wrestler for a while here, and so you KNOW I've gotta ask the following here...

Did he ever square-off in the squared circle with your boy Tor?

(...they were about the same age, I believe)

I was checking that out last night, but couldn't find anything yet. However, Mazurki did have a feud going with the Swedish Angel. Tor used that moniker for a time, but this Swedish Angel was the guy from Mighty Joe Young.