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What Current Big Stars Will Be Forgotten?


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8 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Those two are solid choices but I can also see them being forgotten but for the polar opposite reasons:  Lewis because,  while one of the best actors of his generation wasn't in many blockbuster films,  and Hanks because too many view him as a so-so \ everyday man,  actor (i.e. a not so memorable screen persona). 

Note that Harrison Ford should be part of the discussion based on block office take associated with the serials Raiders and Star Wars,  but like Hanks,  he may fall off the radar because he did have many 'must see' performances like De Niro.

 

I thought about Harrison Ford as far as being remembered because he was in so many films that will probably stand the test of time - the original Star Wars films, the Indiana Jones films, Blade Runner - even if he isn't considered a great actor. Tom Hanks will be remembered because of his performances and because he was in some films that will stand the test of time such as Saving Private Ryan. I agree about Daniel Day Lewis. Even though he won three well deserved Best Actor Oscars it might be that people don't remember his films as the decades pass.

As an aside, sometimes an actor or actress is remembered because of some tragedy. In 1976, right after I graduated high school, my sister and I were staying up very late to see "The Fearless Vampire Killers". We both admitted our curiosity was due to the presence of Sharon Tate in the cast, and we admitted we were interested in seeing Sharon Tate because of how she died. If Marilyn Monroe and James Dean had lived long enough to lose their edge, their looks,  and their popularity, and died in old age of heart disease, would people remember them now?

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6 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

What about stars we remember now that people won't remember later.

I doubt as many people will be interested in Bette Davis fifty years from now.

Some stars have a long shelf life but still it's finite. 

Fifty years from now if Bette Davis is mostly 'forgotten',  then I would assume the only actresses from the so-called golden era that will NOT be,  are Monroe and Audrey Hepburn (and in both cases NOT so much for their movies but because of their iconic status due mostly to things other then movies).

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14 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Fifty years from now if Bette Davis is mostly 'forgotten',  then I would assume the only actresses from the so-called golden era that will NOT be,  are Monroe and Audrey Hepburn (and in both cases NOT so much for their movies but because of their iconic status due mostly to things other then movies).

I agree. Marilyn and Audrey will be remembered for their style, not for their films. A lot of people today know who Marilyn Monroe was but have never seen any of her acting.

12 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

It's hard to tell, as movie stars have only been around just over a hundred years. How many today, even among classic film lovers, can recall the two widely regarded as the first movie stars, Florence Lawrence and King Baggott?

220px-Florence_Lawrence_1908.jpg  200px-KingBaggot(1879-1948).jpg

Good point. Also silent film fans knew a different big star in the 1920s named Harrison Ford. But today's audience only knows the more recent guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Ford_(silent_film_actor)

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Almost all of the big Brat Pack stars of the 1980s have already disappeared into obscurity, save for trivia and occasional TV work..... Ally Sheedy, Judd Nelson, Anthony Michael Hall, Molly Ringwald, Emilio Estevez, Andrew McCarthy, Timothy Hutton, Demi Moore.....they were supposed to be the big stars of tomorrow.. (I guess Demi was big as in very highly paid for a while)......

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20 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

What about stars we remember now that people won't remember later.

I doubt as many people will be interested in Bette Davis fifty years from now.

Some stars have a long shelf life but still it's finite.  

I think that for at least the next few decades people will remember Bette Davis, Humphrey Bogart, and James Cagney because of their unique styles. People we recognize today who may be forgotten someday? Possibly Kate Winsett, Johnny Depp, maybe Denzel Washington and Will Smith too. It's rather strange that Will Smith has gotten so little critical recognition in his career. I think he has picked his roles rather carefully and performed well. Does he have some kind of nightmare personality that makes the critics not like him?

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People who are not actors or directors themselves who are remembered include Ed Sullivan and Johnny Carson. Carson retired in 1992, and Ed Sullivan's show was cancelled in 1971. Do you think any talk show hosts of today will be remembered in 20 years?  Kind of OT I know.

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7 minutes ago, RoyCronin said:

Almost all of the big Brat Pack stars of the 1980s have already disappeared into obscurity, save for trivia and occasional TV work..... Ally Sheedy, Judd Nelson, Anthony Michael Hall, Molly Ringwald, Emilio Estevez, Andrew McCarthy, Timothy Hutton, Demi Moore.....they were supposed to be the big stars of tomorrow.. (I guess Demi was big as in very highly paid for a while)......

Demi Moore might be remembered for awhile anyways because her acting career did go beyond the Brat Pack high school/new college grad films of the 80s.

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3 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

People who are not actors or directors themselves who are remembered include Ed Sullivan and Johnny Carson. Carson retired in 1992, and Ed Sullivan's show was cancelled in 1971. Do you think any talk show hosts of today will be remembered in 20 years?  Kind of OT I know.

People may recall their names, but not with the reverence reserved for Sullivan and Carson. David Letterman and Conan O'Brien have very loyal fans that will always remember them. Jay Leno will be remembered, most likely. As for Fallon or Kimmel or Colbert...I'm not sure. They may fall victim to the same audience fragmentation that has lessened the audience for every TV show in this era.

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35 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

It's hard to tell, as movie stars have only been around just over a hundred years. How many today, even among classic film lovers, can recall the two widely regarded as the first movie stars, Florence Lawrence and King Baggott?

220px-Florence_Lawrence_1908.jpg  200px-KingBaggot(1879-1948).jpg

I have a pretty good knowledge of silent film and I have never even heard of these two. Do any of their films survive?

EDIT: OK, so I looked these two up. It looks like Florence Lawrence had a pretty sad life, multiple divorces, a career that never took off, all capped by a suicide when she was 52.

King Baggot played small or uncredited roles, but he also did some directing work in B films. He lived to age 68 which was pretty good at the time.

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7 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

I have a pretty good knowledge of silent film and I have never even heard of these two. Do any of their films survive?

Some films of both survive, but I'm not sure how many. Here are the opening paragraphs to their Wikipedia pages:

Florence Lawrence

Florence Lawrence (January 2, 1886 – December 28, 1938) was a Canadian-American stage performer and film actress. She is often referred to as "The First Movie Star," and was the first film actor to be named publicly. At the height of her fame in the 1910s, she was known as "The Biograph Girl" for work as one of the leading ladies in silent films from the Biograph Company. She appeared in almost 300 films for various motion picture companies throughout her career.

King Baggott

William King Baggot (November 7, 1879 – July 11, 1948) was an American actor, film director and screenwriter. He was an internationally famous movie star of the silent film era. The first individually publicized leading man in America, Baggot was referred to as "King of the Movies," "The Most Photographed Man in the World" and "The Man Whose Face Is As Familiar As The Man In The Moon."

Baggot appeared in over 300 motion pictures from 1909 to 1947; wrote 18 screenplays; and directed 45 movies from 1912 to 1928, including The Lie (1912), Raffles, the Amateur Cracksman (1925) and The House of Scandal (1928). He also directed William S. Hart in his most famous western, Tumbleweeds (1925).

Among his film appearances, he was best known for The Scarlet Letter (1911), Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1913), and Ivanhoe (1913), which was filmed on location in Wales.

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21 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

About current stars that might end up being forgotten, I have a hunch it will happen with many stars who are most famous for playing superheroes. With the exception of a few of them who were already established like Robert Downey Jr, Mark Ruffalo, and Scarlett Johansson, the superhero films are mainly the reason they are famous, and its probably true that audiences go to them more for the comic book connection then for who is actually starring in it.

Brilliant diagnosis, based on a logical synopsis, CI!

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14 hours ago, kingrat said:

I believe that the late Burt Reynolds will diminish to the stature of someone like, say, Dane Clark, and Reynolds was a huge star for a decade or so. Wallace Reid is a great example of a big star who has been more or less forgotten today, even by film buffs. Thanks for that one, Cave Girl. Gloria Swanson is remembered because of Sunset Boulevard; had Mary Pickford taken the role of Norma Desmond, she would now be much better remembered than Swanson.

Even the most ardent film buffs today have to remind themselves that Betty Grable was a top box-office star for about a decade. It's easy to think of many talented and attractive people who seemed on the verge of stardom and then weren't: Matthew Modine, Josh Hartnett, Renee Zellweger, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Natalie Portman are some of the names that came to mind first. Hilary Swank is already a more obscure two-time Oscar winner than Luise Rainer. I'm not even sure that people like Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence have found a secure niche in film history yet.

 

 

 

I like your post, kingrat! Of course that is probably because you praised me about Wallace Reid and basically seem to be agreeing with my concept...haha!

You make such strong points though, in that even having Oscars to your name does not ensure long lasting fame. I think the people who may be remembered will be iconic in some ways. And your theory about if one ends up in a film which keeps being shown, like Gloria as opposed to Pickford, then the fame will really be more likely, and that might even be about actors who are not that great in themselves.

I'm still gonna stick with the belief that Spielberg will be a forgotten footnote in films in the future. Often the films of someone who seemed to pique the interest of the populace, is often the first one to be downgraded as time goes by. I don't think he has any specific style that makes one know it is a Spielberg movie, as one would see with a John Ford film or one by David Lean, plus he tended often to make blockbusters that seemingly were concocted with only an eye to making money. Even Akira Kurosawa made mention of such leanings in the testimonial dinner arranged for him back in the day by Spielberg and others in the Hollywood community. When Kurosawa got up to speak, he said he'd been asked how was he able to make such great and profound movies, and he said basically that money should not be the motivator and if one was prone to make sequels just to make a buck, that they shouldn't be surprised if their movies do not live on. I still remember the camera on Spielberg's face as this comment was made, and he looked a bit nonplussed.

But I could be wrong, so check back in about forty years...

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Some confession time (I'm Catholic so of course confession's part of the regular routine)--

Sometimes, being very aware of how things and people become forgotten, I specifically go on to YouTube, find some poverty row film in the public domain. A film where I am sure to know NONE of the actors. And I watch it. It's worth giving an hour of my time to, because then I look up the leads and study their careers. 

I may even write about them and about the movie on this site so they can be found later when someone's doing a search. In these small ways we can contribute to keeping part of motion picture history alive.

It doesn't all have to be about the Bette Davises, Marilyn Monroes and Clint Eastwoods. Time is the great leveler. All the so-called great stars we know now-- will in a hundred years be on some sort of equal ground with the poverty row stars I've discovered. They will all be obscure. And hopefully people will come along later and rediscover Bette, Marilyn and Clint.

None of these people are going to be known like Jesus two thousand years from now. But then again, maybe they will be if technology allows it and the information remains accessible.

Amen.

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Many silent stars though would have had a challenging uphill climb for lasting recognition though. So many silent films were destroyed after the talkies came in, because many felt there was no value in preserving them, that nobody wanted a silent film anymore. And Fox, one of the main studios of the silent era, lost most of their silent films in a fire in the mid 1930s. Then you also had the extra sling of MGM 's sarcastic "Goofy Movies" short series which often, if not always, contained a deconstruction of a silent film with ludicrous dialogue. So, because of all that, I feel that many silent stars slipped into oblivion. Truthfully, the ones of that era most remembered today  by the general public are mostly the big stars of that time (Lloyd, Pickford, Bow) or the ones who kept on working in the talkies (Chaplin, Keaton, Shearer, Davies, Garbo, Crawford, Colman, Cooper, Lillian Gish)

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34 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Some confession time (I'm Catholic so of course confession's part of the regular routine)--

Sometimes, being very aware of how things and people become forgotten, I specifically go on to YouTube, find some poverty row film in the public domain. A film where I am sure to know NONE of the actors. And I watch it. It's worth giving an hour of my time to, because then I look up the leads and study their careers. 

I may even write about them and about the movie on this site so they can be found later when someone's doing a search. In these small ways we can contribute to keeping part of motion picture history alive.

It doesn't all have to be about the Bette Davises, Marilyn Monroes and Clint Eastwoods. Time is the great leveler. All the so-called great stars we know now-- will in a hundred years be on some sort of equal ground with the poverty row stars I've discovered. They will all be obscure. And hopefully people will come along later and rediscover Bette, Marilyn and Clint.

None of these people are going to be known like Jesus two thousand years from now. But then again, maybe they will be if technology allows it and the information remains accessible.

Amen.

While you are on your journey in search of obscure and unappreciated stars, take a look at Dorothy Sebastian. She has an interesting life story. From Alabama country girl - the only one of four siblings to survive childhood, to an early marriage that failed, to The Scandals, to an MGM contract and some good supporting roles, then being forgotten at that all important juncture of silent and sound film due to a short marriage to William Boyd of Hopalong Cassidy fame, then out of a marriage and a career and rekindling a romance with now divorced Buster Keaton who said he did not want to get married again, which was fine until he found someone he DID want to marry, the acrimonious end of their romance, marriage to an aircraft mechanic, and death in the Motion Picture Country House, Woodland Hills, California, where stars went to spend their final days if they did not have the means for care. She is unfortunately often mistaken for Josephine Dunn because Dorothy did not appear in all three flapper trilogies - Our Dancing Daughters, Our Modern Maidens, and Our Blushing Brides. She skipped Our Modern Maidens and Josephine Dunn was in that one.

For some reason this Alabama flapper has always captured my imagination and she has such a bittersweet life story. Oh, and I just came up with another movie title that has never been used -

CALVINNME AND HER RUN ON SENTENCES - See the underlined sentence above.

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14 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

While you are on your journey in search of obscure and unappreciated stars, take a look at Dorothy Sebastian. She has an interesting life story. From Alabama country girl - the only one of four siblings to survive childhood, to an early marriage that failed, to The Scandals, to an MGM contract and some good supporting roles, then being forgotten at that all important juncture of silent and sound film due to a short marriage to William Boyd of Hopalong Cassidy fame, then out of a marriage and a career and rekindling a romance with now divorced Buster Keaton who said he did not want to get married again, which was fine until he found someone he DID want to marry, the acrimonious end of their romance, marriage to an aircraft mechanic, and death in the Motion Picture Country House, Woodland Hills, California, where stars went to spend their final days if they did not have the means for care. She is unfortunately often mistaken for Josephine Dunn because Dorothy did not appear in all three flapper trilogies - Our Dancing Daughters, Our Modern Maidens, and Our Blushing Brides. She skipped Our Modern Maidens and Josephine Dunn was in that one.

For some reason this Alabama flapper has always captured my imagination and she has such a bittersweet life story. Oh, and I just came up with another movie title that has never been used -

CALVINNME AND HER RUN ON SENTENCES - See the underlined sentence above.

Thanks calvin. Never heard of her. Dorothy Sebastian sounds like a soap opera character's name. Love it. 

At least she had some eventful years in Hollywood, more off-camera excitement than on-camera excitement.

There might be a support group for people who have trouble with run-on sentences. :) 

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 4:16 PM, CaveGirl said:

Okay, I admit it...the post about some not knowing the name Chaplin, made me think of this topic.

Now in Chaplin's case, I don't think he will really be forgotten universally as have been many former luminaries of the stage and screen. I once heard someone say that even today, if you show footage of Chaplin roller skating around a rink and doing amazing stuntlike work, that people will stop and watch. Sure, maybe some don't know of Chaplin, but his talent still amazes when they get the chance to see his work.

What's different though, is seeing the work of a former actor and not enjoying it at all, in an old movie. We all know of big stars who just seem dated and people now can't relate to them. Or they were overhyped at the time and really not that great anyway. I won't name names but you know of what I speak. I doubt there are any major film revivals of the work of Wanda Hendrix but I might be wrong, as I would go to a Sybil Jason film fest, but to each his own.

But again I've digressed, so I ask just who, actor or director, will be not accorded incredible acclaim in about the next fifty years? I will start and don't hate me, but I shall be honest and say, I think it will be Matthew McConnaughey as an actor who was an AA winner and for director, I will say...Spielberg.

Yes, I went there. So kill me but I'm being honest and you wouldn't want me to lie now would you? Feel free to speak your truth also and I will defend your choices even if they are people I think are magnificent. All opinions are welcome, as any of them could come true. 

You mean somebody did not even know the legendary name of *CHAPLIN?  That is  like *JOHN WAYNE, ELVIS, MADONNA & my #2 Idol *SINATRA???  But so typical in this era, huh

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2 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Thanks calvin. Never heard of her. Dorothy Sebastian sounds like a soap opera character's name. Love it. 

At least she had some eventful years in Hollywood, more off-camera excitement than on-camera excitement.

There might be a support group for people who have trouble with run-on sentences. :) 

AS USUAL TERRIFIC STATS

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5 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

Some films of both survive, but I'm not sure how many. Here are the opening paragraphs to their Wikipedia pages:

Florence Lawrence

Florence Lawrence (January 2, 1886 – December 28, 1938) was a Canadian-American stage performer and film actress. She is often referred to as "The First Movie Star," and was the first film actor to be named publicly. At the height of her fame in the 1910s, she was known as "The Biograph Girl" for work as one of the leading ladies in silent films from the Biograph Company. She appeared in almost 300 films for various motion picture companies throughout her career.

King Baggott

William King Baggot (November 7, 1879 – July 11, 1948) was an American actor, film director and screenwriter. He was an internationally famous movie star of the silent film era. The first individually publicized leading man in America, Baggot was referred to as "King of the Movies," "The Most Photographed Man in the World" and "The Man Whose Face Is As Familiar As The Man In The Moon."

Baggot appeared in over 300 motion pictures from 1909 to 1947; wrote 18 screenplays; and directed 45 movies from 1912 to 1928, including The Lie (1912), Raffles, the Amateur Cracksman (1925) and The House of Scandal (1928). He also directed William S. Hart in his most famous western, Tumbleweeds (1925).

Among his film appearances, he was best known for The Scarlet Letter (1911), Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1913), and Ivanhoe (1913), which was filmed on location in Wales.

Got Florence Lawrence grave shot at the HOLLYWOOD, FOREVER, PARK in 1999

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4 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

Brilliant diagnosis, based on a logical synopsis, CI!

Personally I;m fed up with all thee Super Hero flix, though they will certainly continue & more because they dominate the $Box-0ffice$ BIG TIME!  I thought 1989's BATMAN with *Nicholson-(got pd $50m) was perefecto & 1978's SUPERMAN (***1/2) & THE DARK KNIGHT (4 stars!) but enough already.

I'll always recall an interview with *Paul Newman around 1977-78 & why he did not want to do anymore movies-(apparently changed his mindt though) &he said when you have the biggest star in HOLLWOOD & it's a shark, enough said

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5 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

People may recall their names, but not with the reverence reserved for Sullivan and Carson. David Letterman and Conan O'Brien have very loyal fans that will always remember them. Jay Leno will be remembered, most likely. As for Fallon or Kimmel or Colbert...I'm not sure. They may fall victim to the same audience fragmentation that has lessened the audience for every TV show in this era.

One cannot give enough praises to CARSON.   Not only THE KING OF LATE NIGHT but runner up in my book as MR. TELEVISION &not Berle either, but THE GREAT ONE: Jackie (Ralph Kramden) GLEASON

 

Letterman was always my 2nd to JOHHNY & if he wants it deserves another shot at hosting the *OSCARS?

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