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What Current Big Stars Will Be Forgotten?


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2 minutes ago, spence said:

2016's hugely expensive BATMAN VS SUPERMAN ($330m.,) (**) is the prime problem with these comic book films.

Since you like to state numbers, you might also want to mention that BvS, despite how awful it was, made $873 million worldwide. 

 

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Just now, spence said:

One cannot give enough praises to CARSON.   Not only THE KING OF LATE NIGHT but runner up in my book as MR. TELEVISION &not Berle either, but THE GREAT ONE: Jackie (Ralph Kramden) GLEASON

 

Letterman was always my 2nd to JOHHNY & if he wants it deserves another shot at hosting the *OSCARS?

The massive amount of his peers, critics,etc that without pause always cited *THE GREAT: SPENCER TRACY-(l900-l967) as #1 or their idol is as long as a sheet of paper  & Ed Sullivan-(l902-l974) was another on this list.

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1 minute ago, LawrenceA said:

Since you like to state numbers, you might also want to mention that BvS, despite how awful it was, made $873 million worldwide. 

 

Yeah I know, see overseas action flix always do a lot better then say a comedy, domestic comedy,etc  Case in point *WOODY ALLEN'S films don't do well Internationally  I don't agree with many that it's awful, just mediocre   After all who recalls 1987's SUPRERMAN: THE QUEST FOR PEACE? Probably the worst of these comic books/super heroes movies yet to come  I gave it (*) & in '83 huge hype was around due to Richard Pryor co-starring in SUPERMAN III & it was a mess (*1/2)    WHO SAW THESE?

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Jeanine Bassinger pointed out that an actor really needs three successful movies in a relatively short time frame to become a star. The first one, often a major supporting role, attracts notice for the actor; the second is usually a starring role; and the third film establishes that the actor isn't a fluke. Many of the recent names we've mentioned never had the three hit movies.

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And, forgotten by WHO? should be considered too.  And also....

Many of the "big stars" that WE remember( in this elite gathering) have also been long forgotten by most people, and too, most of those who WOULD remember them are also gone.  ;)

But, I contend that the better question( with the longest list of answers) would be...

"Which current big stars are the most FORGETTABLE?" :D 

I mean, if there ARE 23 year olds who've never HEARD of Charlie Chaplin, then just about ALL "stars" from the last 90+ years( starting from today ) will be on the list.  :huh:

Sepiatone

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6 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

And, forgotten by WHO? should be considered too.  And also....

Many of the "big stars" that WE remember( in this elite gathering) have also been long forgotten by most people, and too, most of those who WOULD remember them are also gone.  ;)

But, I contend that the better question( with the longest list of answers) would be...

"Which current big stars are the most FORGETTABLE?" :D 

I mean, if there ARE 23 year olds who've never HEARD of Charlie Chaplin, then just about ALL "stars" from the last 90+ years( starting from today ) will be on the list.  :huh:

Sepiatone

Below is my first reply to this thread:  

Since most 'stars' are forgotten,  to me the better question is:  50 years after their death,  what movie industry personal will be remember?  

As you note the list of stars that will be forgotten is endless,   while the list of those that will be remembered is a handful.

 

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14 hours ago, kingrat said:

Jeanine Bassinger pointed out that an actor really needs three successful movies in a relatively short time frame to become a star. The first one, often a major supporting role, attracts notice for the actor; the second is usually a starring role; and the third film establishes that the actor isn't a fluke. 

Screen Shot 2018-09-27 at 12.18.14 PM.jpg

What about someone like Shirley Booth? She truly defied the odds. Unique compared to other female actresses of her generation. Booth had starring roles in films, she never played a supporting role. She earned an Oscar right out of the gate on her first try.

She only made four feature films. But she also starred in a few TV movies later on (not counting her hit sitcom). She earned 2 Tonys as lead actress, an Oscar as lead actress, 2 Emmys as lead actress, a BAFTA as lead actress and a Golden Globe as lead actress.

To me, she's the epitome of s-t-a-r or someone with star quality. Yet because she's not a Marilyn Monroe or Audrey Hepburn type, she gets lumped in with character actresses.

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19 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Screen Shot 2018-09-27 at 12.18.14 PM.jpg

What about someone like Shirley Booth? She truly defied the odds. Unique compared to other female actresses of her generation. Booth had starring roles in films, she never played a supporting role. She earned an Oscar right out of the gate on her first try.

She only made four feature films. But she also starred in a few TV movies later on (not counting her hit sitcom). She earned 2 Tonys as lead actress, an Oscar as lead actress, an Emmy as lead actress, a BAFTA as lead actress and a Golden Globe as lead actress.

To me, she's the epitome of s-t-a-r or someone with star quality. Yet because she's not a Marilyn Monroe or Audrey Hepburn type, she gets lumped in with character actresses.

Well, I know ONE guy around here who'll never forget Shirley anyway, TB! And in fact, I think he kind'a has a little crush on her 'cause he's always tryin' to get TCM to show one of those four movies you said she starred in.

But then again, I'm pretty sure he's an older gent like myself.

(...and so when we're gone, there'll be two less guys in the world who'll remember her)

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2 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Well, I know ONE guy around here who'll never forget Shirley anyway, TB! And in fact, I think he kind'a has a little crush on her 'cause he's always tryin' to get TCM to show one of those four movies you said she starred in.

But then again, I'm pretty sure he's an older gent like myself.

(...and so when we're gone, there'll be two less guys in the world who'll remember her)

Yes, good old HOT SPELL.

I think her best one is ABOUT MRS. LESLIE. It's a perfect movie.

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1 minute ago, TopBilled said:

Yes, good old HOT SPELL.

I think her best one is ABOUT MRS. LESLIE. It's a perfect movie.

Ah yes, the one she co-stars in with Robert Ryan.

(...hmmm..."Robert Ryan"...think anyone under 30 remembers HIM?...doubt it...well, other than the few younger film buffs out there, anyway)

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2 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Screen Shot 2018-09-27 at 12.18.14 PM.jpg

What about someone like Shirley Booth? She truly defied the odds. Unique compared to other female actresses of her generation. Booth had starring roles in films, she never played a supporting role. She earned an Oscar right out of the gate on her first try.

She only made four feature films. But she also starred in a few TV movies later on (not counting her hit sitcom). She earned 2 Tonys as lead actress, an Oscar as lead actress, 2 Emmys as lead actress, a BAFTA as lead actress and a Golden Globe as lead actress.

To me, she's the epitome of s-t-a-r or someone with star quality. Yet because she's not a Marilyn Monroe or Audrey Hepburn type, she gets lumped in with character actresses.

I'm curious why you assume Booth gets lumped in with character actresses.    E.g. did someone at this forum imply that?    My guess is that the vast majority of the population don't know who she is,  and that many that would recognize her,  know her as a T.V. actress for Hazel or for those really in the know,  her work in the theater.  

This entire thread is somewhat 'lame' IMO because it is asking all of us to speculate about what others will think \ remember,  years in the future.     Even the crystal ball in the Wizard of Oz wasn't that good!

 

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26 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I'm curious why you assume Booth gets lumped in with character actresses.    E.g. did someone at this forum imply that?    My guess is that the vast majority of the population don't know who she is,  and that many that would recognize her,  know her as a T.V. actress for Hazel or for those really in the know,  her work in the theater.  

With regards to your first sentence, does anyone reading this not think of Shirley Booth as a character actress? She did character-driven films...she was hardly going to be cast in THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH with her dress blowing up. I think the fact she only starred in four feature films is because there weren't enough pictures being made for actresses of her "type" (whatever that was). 

My point was this-- despite playing character parts, she was still always the lead. Everyone else (Burt Lancaster, Robert Ryan, Anthony Quinn, Don DeFore) played support to her. So she's in a very unique category.

I don't want to think she won't be remembered. I remember her. You remember her. People discovering her movies and seeing her on DVDs of Hazel will remember her.

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1 minute ago, TopBilled said:

With regards to your first sentence, does anyone reading this not think of Shirley Booth as a character actress? She did character-driven films...she was hardly going to be cast in THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH with her dress blowing up. I think the fact she only starred in four feature films is because there weren't enough pictures being made for actresses of her "type" (whatever that was). 

My point was that despite playing character parts, she was still always the lead. Everyone else (Burt Lancaster, Robert Ryan, Anthony Quinn, Don DeFore) played support to her. So she's in a very unique category.

I don't want to think she won't be remembered. I remember her. You remember her. People discovering her movies and seeing her on DVDs of Hazel will remember her.

Sorry,  I forgot how you define what a 'character actor' is.    I don't use the term for someone that is a lead (not to say how I use it is 'correct').

Either way Booth is in a very unique category,   but most likely that just means,  sadly,  that she is more likely to be forgotten. 

I believe I have told you this before,  but when most people enter my living room and see the pictures of the studio-era stars I have on the wall,   most ask 'where is Monroe?'.     To me that says a lot about the lack of knowledge most people have of studio-movie actors.

 

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Nah, sorry TB, but other than that "this is a lame thread" comment, I have to agree with James here.

Nope, sorry, my money's on a bet that not only is Shirley on her way out as being even vaguely familiar with the general population, but by the time YOU kick the ol' bucket years after the Nipster and I are long gone, the only "Booth" that'll even REMOTELY ring a bell with the hoi polloi will be that dude who shot Lincoln in Ford's Theater.

AND, to show you HOW little I think in a couple more generations the general public will even remember our 16th President, this wager of mine isn't going to be all that large here, dude! LOL

(...not that I'm all that cynical about our country's educational system, mind you...well okay, maybe I am) ;)

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Nah, sorry TB, but other than that "this is a lame thread" comment, I have to agree with James here.

Nope, sorry, my money's on a bet that not only is Shirley on her way out as being even vaguely familiar with the general population, but by the time YOU kick the ol' bucket years after the Nipster and I are long gone, the only "Booth" that'll even REMOTELY ring a bell with the hoi pollio will be that dude who shot Lincoln in Ford's Theater.

AND, to show you HOW little I think in a couple more generations the general public will even remember our 16th President, this wager of mine isn't going to be all that large here, dude! LOL

(...not that I'm all that cynical about our country's educational system, mind you...well okay, maybe I am) ;)

I'm curious why you don't feel this is SOMEWHAT of a lame thread (and I know you left that word out accidentally, ha ha).      Do you have a better crystal ball then the Wiz?

PS:  the better question would be:  what stars today to YOU believe should be remembered, say,  50 years from now, by future generations.      (since that doesn't require one to guess what OTHERS will remember or NOT).

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Nah, sorry TB, but other than that "this is a lame thread" comment, I have to agree with James here.

Nope, sorry, my money's on a bet that not only is Shirley on her way out as being even vaguely familiar with the general population, but by the time YOU kick the ol' bucket years after the Nipster and I are long gone, the only "Booth" that'll even REMOTELY ring a bell with the hoi pollio will be that dude who shot Lincoln in Ford's Theater.

AND, to show you HOW little I think in a couple more generations the general public will even remember our 16th President, this wager of mine isn't going to be all that large here, dude! LOL

(...not that I'm all that cynical about our country's educational system, mind you...well okay, maybe I am) ;)

I think it's more who remembers these stars and how they remember them. Not everyone will. Some will.

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For the ups and downs of star reputations, consider the contrasting fates of Loretta Young and Joan Bennett. In the late 50s Loretta was much better known, thanks to her TV show and the fancy gowns with the big skirts as she swooshed into the set for the evening's story. I'm not sure I had ever heard of Joan Bennett before Dark Shadows, and frankly Joan wasn't too much of an actress by that time. Almost any Dark Shadows fan preferred Grayson Hall's scenes to Joan Bennett's.

However, two things intervened: the rise of interest in film noir and the interest in auteurism. Bennett had made films with Lang, Renoir, Ophuls, Walsh, Cukor, and Minnelli, all favorites of the ascendant auteurist critics, so her films began to be shown more often. I could scarcely believe that the terrific and sexy young actress in Scarlet Street had turned into Elizabeth Collins Stoddard on Dark Shadows. Loretta, on the other hand, had rarely worked with auteurist favorites (Man's Castle with Borzage was one of the exceptions) or, indeed, with top directors generally. Some of her better films were made by unfashionable directors like Stuart Heisler (Rachel and the Stranger) and Henry Koster (The Bishop's Wife, Come to the Stable), so her reputation as an actress declined. Then the renewed interest in pre-codes brought new audiences to films like Employees' Entrance, so that Loretta's work began to be more appreciated.

Maureen O'Hara now seems like a much bigger star than she was at the time because of the popularity of John Ford's movies. Working with Ford turned out to be a great career long-term career move.

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4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I'm curious why you don't feel this is SOMEWHAT of a lame thread (and I know you left that word out accidentally, ha ha).      Do you have a better crystal ball then the Wiz?

PS:  the better question would be:  what stars today to YOU believe should be remembered, say,  50 years from now, by future generations.      (since that doesn't require one to guess what OTHERS will remember or NOT).

No James, I don't have a better crystal ball than the Wiz.

BUT, now that you bring this up, just like the Scarecrow in that flick, I also have a diploma that was given to me, but in MY case by the Los Angeles Unified School District back in 1970.

(...and so now just like HIM, I can misstate the Pythagorean theorem TOO!) 

;)

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12 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

This entire thread is somewhat 'lame' IMO because it is asking all of us to speculate about what others will think \ remember,  years in the future. 

This has actually been a topic of discussion among our local classic film group.

Mostly, due to popular culture "images" a few like Chaplin, Astaire, Marilyn and James Dean are recognizable to many. Many don't know who they are (or were) in a classic film sense, but can identify them by name - a start.

Most of the great film stars ("I AM big.." Norma Desmond) we know were wildly popular in their day, but are soon forgotten...it's almost staggering how quickly.

Walt Disney was mentioned. While we're familiar with the man, his face, even his voice...just ask anyone today under 40 "Who started the Disney Company?" Even after SAVING MR BANKS, very few people know who Walt Disney was.

Unless popular history becomes a big trend in the future, I'd venture to guess memories of even the great Mr Disney will fade away.

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A few years ago I encountered a couple in their 20s walking a child in a stroller who was wearing a Minnie Mouse hat.

They were an intelligent, articulate pair, I thought, and I commented to them upon the irony that a cartoon character like Mickey Mouse is better known today than the vast majority of major film stars of the '30s and '40s.

As a test, I asked them if they had heard of any of the following five names:

Greta Garbo (once the most famous woman in the world)

Bette Davis

Humphrey Bogart

James Cagney

Errol Flynn

The only two they had heard of were Davis and Bogart. Nor even Cagney's name registered with them, which surprised me a little considering all the impersonations done of him over the years.

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On 9/27/2018 at 2:00 AM, kingrat said:

Jeanine Bassinger pointed out that an actor really needs three successful movies in a relatively short time frame to become a star. The first one, often a major supporting role, attracts notice for the actor; the second is usually a starring role; and the third film establishes that the actor isn't a fluke. Many of the recent names we've mentioned never had the three hit movies.

This has validity. An actor who was known as just a TV actor playing a second banana character Rowdy Yates, made a cheapo Western in Spain with an Italian director. The film was A Fistful of Dollars (1964). Now, you may ask,  how does that fit the above paradigm?

That film 1964 wasn't released here in the U.S. until January 18 1967, his next film For a Few Dollars More (1965) came out four months later in May on the 10th. 1967, and the third film The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) came out seven months after that on the 29th of  December 1967. 

That is three films (in the U.S.) in one year, the star, Clint Eastwood.

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16 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Screen Shot 2018-09-27 at 12.18.14 PM.jpg

What about someone like Shirley Booth? She truly defied the odds. Unique compared to other female actresses of her generation. Booth had starring roles in films, she never played a supporting role. She earned an Oscar right out of the gate on her first try.

She only made four feature films. But she also starred in a few TV movies later on (not counting her hit sitcom). She earned 2 Tonys as lead actress, an Oscar as lead actress, 2 Emmys as lead actress, a BAFTA as lead actress and a Golden Globe as lead actress.

To me, she's the epitome of s-t-a-r or someone with star quality. Yet because she's not a Marilyn Monroe or Audrey Hepburn type, she gets lumped in with character actresses.

TopBilled, is not J. Basinger an author of movie nooks or a big movie book?

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Even sadder due to him not exactly being in the silent era is many already have seemingly forgotten likes of the funny, fun & ultra nice guy: JOHN CANDY-(l950-1994)???

 

I recall I had just come home from Jim Carrey's big break through in March or so of 1994 ACE VENTURA ($72m./) (*1/2) & my mum told me JOHN had died hrs ago! 

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Y'know Joe-----

That all kinda fits in with a gag comic BILLY CRYSTAL once used on a TV appearance....

His (then) teen-aged daughter approaching him with the question:  "Hey, DAD!  Did you know that PAUL McCARTNEY was in a band before  Wings?"  ;) 

And well, yeah, at my age I was WELL aware of Clint Eastwood before those "spaghetti westerns".  But until I became a HUGE fan of the TV show HAZEL did I become aware of SHIRLEY BOOTH.  

But, all that was some 50+ years ago.  :huh:  But, ya gotta start somewhere!  ;)   And for most "boomers" it was watching old movies on the "tube" Saturday afternoon and such that we got exposd to all those great "golden era" stars, and also formed our opinions on whether we LIKED them at all or not.  And too, possibly WHY most of us think JOHNNY WEISMULLER was the only TARZAN worth our time, or why LAUREL AN HARDY and THE THREE STOOGES were the finest comedies ever made!  ;) 

But too, we do tend to have a more "open mind" whe it comes to whatever "new" thing comes along, but view it all with what WE tend to think is a more "critical eye".  ;)  Someday, OUR kids and grandkids are gonna say to THEIR children---

"GOSH!  They don't make cartoons like RUGRATS and SPONGE BOB anymore!"  :D  ;)  and sigh deeply......

Sepiatone

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