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fxreyman

Opinion to remove John Wayne's name from Orange County Airport

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Sort of sad to see this happen, but article does indicate that the airport that has his name on it lies in a California county that is no longer a popular viewpoint of right-wing politics and therefore, any mention of the late actor's name for the airport should be removed. This kind of talk infuriates me. Where does this end? This is along the same lines of the Confederate statues in the south. And if this was allowed to happen where will Mount Rushmore be in a few years?

Any thoughts?

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-hiltzik-john-wayne-oc-airport-20190221-story.html?fbclid=IwAR0ac6VYv_KcPIE-jmAlY2Xc6SntWkBgGqq4cshL_2U4HTcCJt88KGcqtEM

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I would ask them: what has his politics got to do with it? He's a legendary American actor; for this reason alone the airport should be honored to bear his name. Its outrageous. Why don't these whining, cringing curs have anything better to do with their time than go around fussily rearranging stuff like this?

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First off, this is an editorial calling for the name change, not any actual initiative on a ballot. Secondly, if the people of Orange County want to change the name of their airport, then that's their prerogative. The opinions of people who live halfway across the country from there, or even further, carry very little weight. And if they do decide to change the name, it's not as if John Wayne will disappear from the Earth forever. The changing of the name of an airport in California will have absolutely no effect on my life on the other side of the country. John Wayne will continue to exist in exactly the same amount in my life after any change to an airport name as he did before. 

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One of the problems with naming items after people is that things change as time evolves. My personal philosophy is that items should be named after people ONLY if they directly and personally contributed more than 50% of the cost of the thing.  Especially for public items.

Best case scenario is that we just stop naming things after people.

As for changing John Wayne airport, he was the one who decided to engage in controversial and often hypocritical political positions.  And as Lawrence said, it is up to the people in that area to decide, not us.  Definitely not for people in politically incorrect South.

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9 minutes ago, TheCid said:

One of the problems with naming items after people is that things change as time evolves. My personal philosophy is that items should be named after people ONLY if they directly and personally contributed more than 50% of the cost of the thing.  Especially for public items.

Best case scenario is that we just stop naming things after people.

As for changing John Wayne airport, he was the one who decided to engage in controversial and often hypocritical political positions.  And as Lawrence said, it is up to the people in that area to decide, not us.  Definitely not for people in politically incorrect South.

Be careful how you offer your opinion about areas of the country. Especially if you do not live there. Do you live in the south?

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1 minute ago, fxreyman said:

Be careful how you offer your opinion about areas of the country. Especially if you do not live there. Do you live in the south?

Lifelong in the Deep South state of South Carolina.  With relatives in Louisiana and Arkansas.

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35 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

First off, this is an editorial calling for the name change, not any actual initiative on a ballot. Secondly, if the people of Orange County want to change the name of their airport, then that's their prerogative. The opinions of people who live halfway across the country from there, or even further, carry very little weight. And if they do decide to change the name, it's not as if John Wayne will disappear from the Earth forever. The changing of the name of an airport in California will have absolutely no effect on my life on the other side of the country. John Wayne will continue to exist in exactly the same amount in my life after any change to an airport name as he did before. 

I live in the O.C.  and I'll be joining the group pushing for this name change.    As you know I have a lot of high-up relative in the county,  so we should be able to prevail.

(Ok, the last part is a joke but I just wanted a few around here to have heart failure).

I never supported naming the airport after Wayne because he avoided the draft during WWII but called out as traitors those that did something similar during Vietnam.   

BUT that was decades ago;  The airport has a name and I see no reason to change it. 

OH,  and this type of editorial comes out every few years.   It is just getting more focus because of Trump.  I.e. every House GOP incumbents was defeated in the county (mine also),  in 2018.   So it isn't just that the demographics of the county have changed but the fact Trump is the face of the GOP.    As I said before, I believe the GOP will regain a few of these seats once Trump is out.

PS:  Oh, and I agree it is 100% up to the locals;  I don't care what Southerners do with their monuments, flag,  etc....    I follow Don't Tread on Me!

 

 

 

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All the years I worked in the Airline industry and after they added the names of notable people to some of the airports in the country, I never ever referred to any of 'em as:

John Wayne Airport...still referred to it as "Orange County Airport", IATA code: SNA

Bob Hope Airport...still referred to it as "Hollywood Burbank Airport", IATA code: BUR

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport...still referred to it as "Washington National Airport", IATA code: DCA

(...and so in THIS case, and as it might be somewhat apropos for one to say about this little insignificant matter IF one were ever at some airport REnamed "Clark Gable Airport"..."Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!!!")

 

 

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Just now, Dargo said:

All the years I worked n the Airlines industry and after they added the names of notable people to some of the airports in the country, I never ever referred to any of 'em as:

John Wayne Airport...still referred to it as "Orange County Airport", IATA code: SNA

Bob Hope Airport...still referred to it as "Hollywood Burbank Airport", IATA code: BUR

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport...still referred to it as "Washington National Airport", IATA code: DCA

(...and so in THIS case, and as it might be somewhat apropos for one to say about this little insignificant matter IF one were ever at some airport REnamed "Clark Gable Airport"..."Frankly my dear. I don't give a damn!!!")

 

 

How about JFK? Do you still call it Idlewild?

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31 minutes ago, TheCid said:

 

Best case scenario is that we just stop naming things after people.

 

I agree. We should use numerals. Like "Airport 1," Airport 2," etc. Of course, someone might get upset since we'd be using Hindu-Arabic numerals. So how about Roman numerals? No, the Romans were bastards, forget that. How about ... ah, never mind, the idea sucks, I admit it.

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3 minutes ago, scsu1975 said:

How about JFK? Do you still call it Idlewild?

No,  but I do call it Camelot.

 

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3 minutes ago, scsu1975 said:

I agree. We should use numerals. Like "Airport 1," Airport 2," etc. Of course, someone might get upset since we'd be using Hindu-Arabic numerals. So how about Roman numerals? No, the Romans were bastards, forget that. How about ... ah, never mind, the idea sucks, I admit it.

No, just not after people.  Of course that also is problematic.  For instance Washington National Airport would be named for city or first president?  Yeah, I know. It is officially Reagan.

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9 minutes ago, Dargo said:

All the years I worked in the Airline industry and after they added the names of notable people to some of the airports in the country, I never ever referred to any of 'em as:

John Wayne Airport...still referred to it as "Orange County Airport", IATA code: SNA

Bob Hope Airport...still referred to it as "Hollywood Burbank Airport", IATA code: BUR

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport...still referred to it as "Washington National Airport", IATA code: DCA

(...and so in THIS case, and as it might be somewhat apropos for one to say about this little insignificant matter IF one were ever at some airport REnamed "Clark Gable Airport"..."Frankly my dear. I don't give a damn!!!")

 

 

Dargo, I've got MCI on all of my luggage. Does that ring a bell with you?

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aeons ago, LawrenceA hissed

Quote

The opinions of people who live halfway across the country from there, or even further, carry very little weight. The changing of the name of an airport in California will have absolutely no effect on my life on the other side of the country. John Wayne will continue to exist in exactly the same amount in my life after any change to an airport name as he did before. 

It's a quality-of-life issue; such intangibles often do not fit such narrow, abstemious, confines...

 

 

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23 minutes ago, scsu1975 said:

How about JFK? Do you still call it Idlewild?

I knew somebody would ask me that here, Rich.

And so the answer to this would be, no. I've always called it JFK International Airport.

And the reason I don't and never have called it Idlewild is because, well, remember in my previous post I prefaced my comment with :"All the years I worked in the Airline industry"?

Well, I was only a smartazzed little 11 y/o kid when they changed the name to JFK International back in '63, and so was MUCH too young to have been employed with any airline at the time.

And thus, the name JFK International would be what I had come to know that airport as a decade later and when this then 21 y/o smartazzed young man would begin his "oh so glamorous" airline career at Los Angeles International Airport!  ;)

(...IATA code: LAX)

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

aeons ago, LawrenceA hissed

It's a quality-of-life issue; such intangibles often do not fit such narrow, abstemious, confines...

 

 

The name of an airport is a quality-of-life issue???  

Uh,  if you really believe that,  then you have the same POV as the people who wish to change the name.

I.e. they wish to change the name because they are snowflakes who view the name as some type of 'quality of life' issue.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Dargo said:

I knew somebody would ask me that here, Rich.

And so the answer to this would be, no. I've always called it JFK International Airport.

And the reason I don't and never have called it Idlewild is because, well, remember in my previous post I prefaced my comment with :"All the years I worked in the Airline industry"?

Well, I was only a smartazzed little 11 y/o kid when they changed the name to JFK International back in '63, and so was MUCH too young to have been employed with any airline at the time.

And thus, the name JFK International would be what I had come to know that airport as a decade later and when this then 21 y/o smartazzed young man would begin his "oh so glamorous" airline career at Los Angeles International Airport!  ;)

(...IATA code: LAX)

 

 

Anyone else remember that they changed the name of Cape Canaveral to Cape Kennedy and there was a protest over it.  So they changed it back to Cape Canaveral, but the location of the Kennedy Space Center.

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then you have the same POV as the people who wish to change the name. 

--JJG

'Oh, bother' sighed Pooh

Without taking any 'side' in the changing of a specific name, it should be clear to all that our civic environment is always a quality-of-life issue whatever the specific controversy may be.

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1 hour ago, fxreyman said:

Sort of sad to see this happen, but article does indicate that the airport that has his name on it lies in a California county that is no longer a popular viewpoint of right-wing politics and therefore, any mention of the late actor's name for the airport should be removed. This kind of talk infuriates me. Where does this end? This is along the same lines of the Confederate statues in the south. And if this was allowed to happen where will Mount Rushmore be in a few years?

Any thoughts?

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-hiltzik-john-wayne-oc-airport-20190221-story.html?fbclid=IwAR0ac6VYv_KcPIE-jmAlY2Xc6SntWkBgGqq4cshL_2U4HTcCJt88KGcqtEM

I have a strong opinion about this issue, not because I live in Orange County, Calif., but because I live in a southern state, Virginia, where local jurisdictions are prohibited by state law from removing monuments without permission from the state government.  We have a statue commemorating Confederate soldiers in front of our county courthouse.

I strongly oppose the state law that takes away the right of local citizens to decide what's displayed in their local area.  Why should we be bound today by the way people 100 years ago -- or even more recently -- decided to remember history? 

The statue in front of our courthouse isn't, itself, a historical object.  It's just a statue that some citizens decades ago decided to put up in the courthouse square, because they wanted to remember Confederate soldiers.  That decision was probably promoted by a salesman from a company that sold statues to towns all over the South -- yes, there was a commercial motive that led to so many Confederate monuments.  Some people today feel very strongly that the Confederate statue in our county commemorates people who were traitors to the United States and fought to preserve slavery.  Other people disagree.  But either way -- shouldn't local citizens today be allowed to decide how history is commemorated today?  Why are we forced to continue remembering history the way our grandparents wanted to?

I think the same applies to keeping John Wayne's name attached to the Orange County airport.  Now, I like a lot of Wayne's movies, and I was glad to hear Katharine Hepburn -- a political liberal -- talk about what a nice guy Wayne was when she worked with him.  At the same time, I don't like it that Wayne openly expressed racist and other bigoted views, and that he, along with Ward Bond (another actor I like), actively promoted blacklisting in the movie industry in the 50s.  (In my view, they weren't just going after communists, keeping in mind that being a communist was not illegal.  They were also going after liberals like John Garfield, as a way of stamping out political opposition to their right-wing views.)

But you know what?  I don't think my views should matter when it comes to how the Orange County airport is named.  That should be up to the local citizens.  They should decide whether they want to continue remember John Wayne in this way.  And I don't want them, or anyone else outside our county, telling us whether we need to keep the Confederate statue in front of our courthouse.

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11 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

--JJG

'Oh, bother' sighed Pooh

Without taking any 'side' in the changing of a specific name, it should be clear to all that our civic environment is always a quality-of-life issue whatever the specific controversy may be.

Thanks for explaining your POV here.   So it looks to me that Cid and you have a similar view;  that civic structures shouldn't be named after people since they are a 'quality-of-life' issue and there isn't a person in the world that wouldn't offend someone's quality-of-life.    (in order to avoid endless controversy).

Note that CA has about 100 lawsuits and other actions being taken with regards to names.   E.g. a school in a town in Northern CA with the name of Dixie.   To me these debates are a waste of public resources.   

 

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2 minutes ago, TheCid said:

Anyone else remember that they changed the name of Cape Canaveral to Cape Kennedy and there was a protest over it.  So they changed it back to Cape Canaveral, but the location of the Kennedy Space Center.

Yeah, I remember that Cid, and ALSO felt those protesters had a valid point to their argument.

(...I mean, to disrespect the great Horatio T. Cavaveral, the maker of some of the greatest capes by any cape maker ever in the history of fashion, and by replacing it with ANYBODY else's name, was quite a slight to the man's memory, wouldn't ya say?!!!) 

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Not to change the direction (much), but it sort of parallels this discussion.  First, many "Confederate" soldier statues were almost mirror images of "Union" soldier statues.  Same companies produced and erected both.  Second, if "Confederate" soldier monuments should be removed because they are insensitive and so forth, what about removing the Union soldier monuments because they are insensitive to some Southerners or other descendants of Confederate soldiers?

So, I recommend we remove all monuments to everybody, every group, ad infinitum.

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Just wait 'til people find out The Duke was a whitewashed Genghis Khan in "The Conqueror" (1956)!

Image result for john wayne as genghis khan

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