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Robert Mueller submits Russia report


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1 hour ago, Bogie56 said:

Mueller figures that he will be called to testify and if he is asked the right questions we will then learn if he was dissatisfied with Barr's representation of his findings.  But my guess, and it is a guess, is that Mueller will just keep his mouth shut unless asked.

Having said that I agree with Adam Schiff that there is plenty of PUBLIC evidence of the Trump campaign colluding with the Russians.  I take it that Mueller thought that he did not have enough of a criminal case with the evidence he had.   But reading what he did gather could be very damaging to Trump politically - moreso than sleeping with a porn star.  Compromising yourself with a foreign adversary to win an election as Schiff said "is not okay."  If it was, where would this type of shenanigans end?

My point all along about the Trump Tower meeting was that the Russians were never ever going to show up with stolen emails.  All they needed from the Trumps was a "I love it" to know that they were on the same page and that there would be a quid pro quo - which arguably we have seen as well with the shift on Russian sanctions and Trump trying to give cover to Putin at every turn.

As you know collusion isn't a crime,  and while it clearly isn't OK,   I believe Dems pushing the 'ok,  not crimes,,, but still NOT OK' angle will cost them more politically then they gain (e.g. GOP gains back House and Senate seats in 2020).

As for conspiracy and campaign violations;  I'm very interested in why Mueller didn't indite anyone for that Trump Tower meeting.    The meeting was clearly set up so that the Trump campaign could get info on Clinton from a foreign power.    Just because there isn't evidence that any 'goods' were actually shared,  doesn't mean there wasn't a conspiracy to get illegal info.    

On possible obstruction by A President:  I clearly see why Mueller stayed out of drawing a conclusion since there are Constitutional questions related to Presidential powers.    

 

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No video or article originating with RT on this subject will be taken seriously by anyone with half a brain. The nature of the issue precludes that, no matter how much you RT devotees profess their legitimacy. 

And for better or for worse (more likely the latter), this "collusion" debate will not end until the entire, unredacted report is made public, which will most likely never happen. If even a single word is redacted, some percentage will still see that as a cover-up of some sort. Just look at the extreme conspiracy theories espoused by people on this message board that have even less anecdotal evidence to back them up. 

I've never bought into the collusion idea, as I don't think it was necessary for Russia or any other nation to do so, as Trump is so easily manipulated via other means. And to all the Trump supporters, this collusion bit got started thanks to Trump's "Russia...are you listening?" jokes, and Roger Stone's comments re: impending data releases during the '16 campaign. There were enough red flags, along with that much-discussed Trump Tower meeting, to legitimately prompt an investigation. I would be disappointed in the nation's security apparatus if there hadn't been one.

One more note: Bogie, do you really think Trump's supporters would care if the campaign colluded or cooperated  with a foreign power to win an election? Haven't there been polls that have explicitly stated that his supporters wouldn't care at all? What ever it takes to win is worth it, is the mantra, whether in elections or any other aspect of life. It's the Trump ethos, after all.

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3 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

One more note: Bogie, do you really think Trump's supporters would care if the campaign colluded or cooperated  with a foreign power to win an election? Haven't there been polls that have explicitly stated that his supporters wouldn't care at all? What ever it takes to win is worth it, is the mantra, whether in elections or any other aspect of life. It's the Trump ethos, after all.

Well even someone that isn't a Trump supporter,  like Cid,  has said he would vote for Trump over what he views as far-left \ socialist Dems,  if one of these wins the Dems nomination.

The point being that Dems still need to offer what is viewed as a legit \ non extreme candidate so that folks like Cid (can't stand Trump but is fiscally to the right,  older white guy),  doesn't vote for Trump as the lesser-evil.

Campaign collusion isn't enough to move folks like Cid to the anyone-but-Trump camp (the camp I'm in).

 

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2 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Well even someone that isn't a Trump supporter,  like Cid,  has said he would vote for Trump over what he views as far-left \ socialist Dems,  if one of these wins the Dems nomination.

The point being that Dems still need to offer what is viewed as a legit \ non extreme candidate so that folks like Cid (can't stand Trump but is fiscally to the right,  older white guy),  doesn't vote for Trump as the lesser-evil.

Campaign collusion isn't enough to move folks like Cid to the anyone-but-Trump camp (the camp I'm in).

 

I agree with this. I was initially going to vote Jim Webb but settled on Trump because I couldn't stand Hillary. The Dems really need to get it together if they want to win 2020.

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3 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

One more note: Bogie, do you really think Trump's supporters would care if the campaign colluded or cooperated  with a foreign power to win an election? Haven't there been polls that have explicitly stated that his supporters wouldn't care at all? What ever it takes to win is worth it, is the mantra, whether in elections or any other aspect of life. It's the Trump ethos, after all.

He can correct me if I am wrong but Nipkowdisc thought it was great that the Russians helped Trump get elected.  And I've seen Trump supporters at his rallies say better Putin in the Oval Office than a democrat.

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2 hours ago, hamradio said:

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What is to let go when you haven't even seen the goods as yet?  You are typical of a Trump supporter who just wants the Barr short form exoneration narrative to prevail without seeing even a page of the blumin report.  Talk about a sheep.

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1 minute ago, Bogie56 said:

He can correct me if I am wrong but Nipkowdisc thought it was great that the Russians helped Trump get elected.  And I've seen Trump supporters at his rallies say better Putin in the Oval Office than a democrat.

Yeah, that's what I was alluding to. Even if there had been 100% definitive, irrefutable evidence of Trump actively being an agent of the Russian government, most of his supporters wouldn't care. 

I was being a bit hyperbolic, perhaps, as some middle-of-the-roaders may think twice about voting for him if evidence were produced, but that sort of evidence will most likely not be forthcoming.

If anything, the unredacted report probably alludes to some sort of financial or procedural malfeasance not directly linked to any Russian collusion scenario, and that's what Barr is referring to when he says some of it may harm reputations.

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34 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

He can correct me if I am wrong but Nipkowdisc thought it was great that the Russians helped Trump get elected.  And I've seen Trump supporters at his rallies say better Putin in the Oval Office than a democrat.

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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Well even someone that isn't a Trump supporter,  like Cid,  has said he would vote for Trump over what he views as far-left \ socialist Dems,  if one of these wins the Dems nomination.

The point being that Dems still need to offer what is viewed as a legit \ non extreme candidate so that folks like Cid (can't stand Trump but is fiscally to the right,  older white guy),  doesn't vote for Trump as the lesser-evil.

Campaign collusion isn't enough to move folks like Cid to the anyone-but-Trump camp (the camp I'm in).

 

Perhaps it is because the parties on the left and right in Canada and the UK are not all that far apart but I could never vote for a leader of "my" preferred party if he was a racist, cruel person and a pathetic liar who had gone bankrupt 5 times.  I would vote for the other party no problem just to prevent the Nazi from getting in.  And I don't understand anyone on the boards who feel justified at overlooking what Trump really is and still vote for him.  

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4 key takeaways from William Barr's testimony on the Mueller report-

...Attorney General William Barr faced questions on Capitol Hill regarding his handling of Mueller's findings, when he plans to release the report and how he will handle the issue of redacted information.

Barr was loath to provide many details other than to say that the Justice Department planned to release the redacted report in the next week. But in not answering some of the more pointed questions asked by House Democrats, Barr did reveal some important information that moves our understanding of not only the Mueller report but of his handling of it..........

Barr wouldn't say whether the White House has seen or will see the report before its release

Congress will not see the unredacted version of the report

Barr wouldn't say Trump is wrong about obstruction

Barr had a head start on what was in the Mueller report

see all:  https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/politics/william-barr-mueller-report-donald-trump/index.html

<_<

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Kyle GriffinVerified account @kylegriffin1

 

A.G. Bill Barr says that he did not think about having Mueller and his team help prepare his four page memo. Asked why he didn’t, Barr responds: "Because it was my letter."

7:45 AM - 9 Apr 2019
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Seth AbramsonVerified account @SethAbramson 6h6 hours ago
 
 

The best part is that he *also* did not think about what components DOJ regulations required him to put in the letter

as opposed to what components he felt like putting in it,

resulting in a letter that truly was "his" inasmuch as it was nothing like DOJ regulations required.

<_<

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(((Rep. Nadler)))Verified account @RepJerryNadler

 

Congress is—as a matter of law—entitled to each of the categories AG Barr proposed to redact from the Special Counsel's report.

 

Full release of the report to Congress is consistent with both congressional intent and the interests of the American public.

https://nadler.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=392865 

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Black Canadians have a long history of discrimination and racism. Canada has had slavery, segregation, and a Canadian Ku Klux Klan. Racial profiling happens in cities such as Toronto. Black people made up 3% of the Canadian population in 2016, 9% of the population of Toronto (which has the largest communities of Caribbean and African immigrants. They lived disproportionately in poverty, were three times as likely to be carded in Toronto than Whites, and incarceration rates for Blacks were climbing faster than for any other demographic. A Black Lives Matter protest was staged at Toronto Police Headquarters in March 2016. The Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants wanted to propel discussion by collecting everyday experiences of Black Torontonians for an ad campaign targeting racism.

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Things aren't so squeaky clean in Canada, certainly not what some seem to preach to us. And this doesn't even get into how the Aboriginal population has been treated, most often like they were 2nd class citizens.

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Indigenous people still have to deal with systematic racism within Canada and the challenges that the communities face are often ignored. This is because of overarching societal stereotypes about the Aboriginal peoples and the lack of knowledge or education on the very pressing and numerous issues against them. There are still very much negative stereotypes associated with Indigenous communities such as being freeloaders, drug addicts or dumb. Aboriginal people are more likely to feel depression due to several factors such as: poverty, loss of cultural identity, inadequate health care and more. The aboriginal people are also continually colonized by the Canadian government due to the takeover of Indigenous lands for oil projects which have not been agreed upon and are still ongoing.

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Canada is years behind what the United States has done for race relations. Under Trump, the unemployment rate has dropped for everyone down to the lowest levels in 60 years.

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4 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Perhaps it is because the parties on the left and right in Canada and the UK are not all that far apart but I could never vote for a leader of "my" preferred party if he was a racist, cruel person and a pathetic liar who had gone bankrupt 5 times.  I would vote for the other party no problem just to prevent the Nazi from getting in.  And I don't understand anyone on the boards who feel justified at overlooking what Trump really is and still vote for him.  

While I have always felt that character in a politician is overrated (I.e. I care way more about their stance on policy issues),    in the case of Trump his character issues are so 'out-there' and his mental health so questionable that I couldn't vote for him,   period.      But others that are not racist,  far right,  religious nut jobs here see things differently.     It appears fear of socialist democrats is much strong medicine,   kemosahbee.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Perhaps it is because the parties on the left and right in Canada and the UK are not all that far apart but I could never vote for a leader of "my" preferred party if he was a racist, cruel person and a pathetic liar who had gone bankrupt 5 times.  I would vote for the other party no problem just to prevent the Nazi from getting in.  

*And I don't understand anyone on the boards who feel justified at overlooking what Trump really is and still vote for him.*

Thank you for saying that so succinctly.

*Character will always matter in all human beings no matter what their Endeavor is.

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5 hours ago, MovieMadness said:

 

 Under Trump, the unemployment rate has dropped for everyone down to the lowest levels in 60 years.

It was lower in 1969. Do the math.

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2 hours ago, hamradio said:

 

A Russian is a culture not a party.

That's like saying "I rather be a Canadian, Chinese, Italian than a Democrat". 

Tell that to yer braindead Trump supporters wearing the t-shirt in the picture.

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5 hours ago, mr6666 said:

(((Rep. Nadler)))Verified account @RepJerryNadler

 

Congress is—as a matter of law—entitled to each of the categories AG Barr proposed to redact from the Special Counsel's report.

 

Full release of the report to Congress is consistent with both congressional intent and the interests of the American public.

https://nadler.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=392865 

It is clear now that disingenuous Barr plans to release a heavily redacted version of the Mueller report to the trusting public while not giving the full report to Congress for their oversight even though they are entitled to it.

Is there any doubt that Barr is a stooge for Trump and the GOP who have lost any sense of oversight.

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