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JeanneCrain

What type of viewers does TCM hope to attract with “Querelle” and “Maitresse” type programming...

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23 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I was more focused on diversity of a product or brand which is the same as variety.    Your fast food example is a good one related to both variety and cultural diversity.     E.g.   There are few place that market and sell both Mexican and Chinese food.   The variety that most fast food joints offer is constrained by culture; a Mexican place has a variety of Latino foods.   

What you say about TCM is on-target.   One think that does make TCM unique is how they would measure how changes to their business model impacts profitability (unlike a station that shows commercials or direct-pay stations like HBO).      This got me thinking about Tiffany Vazquez:  on commercial stations hosts are 'measured' mostly by ratings.  What 'measure' was used by TCM to decide not to renew Vazquez's contract?     TCM has new hosts;  How will they 'measure' their performance when contract renewal time comes?   

A fast food joint has sales data to measure the performance of their product.    TCM  has few data points to measure the performance of their product\brand.    You found one with DVD sales.     

Not to go off on a tangent...but it might be said that Vasquez was initially hired to attract a specific demographic. She was expected to bring in more female viewers, younger viewers and Hispanic-American viewers. I was actually surprised they didn't renew her contract, since her presence helped them tick a few boxes. 

I agree with Larry's comment that they do have some sort of way to measure success and profitability. I was chosen two years in a row to be a Nielsen household. And when I completed the ratings survey (yes they are still weekly journals, done by hand), I was told to list TCM during the hours I viewed TCM. So those ratings are counted and the information is available somewhere.

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13 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

Huh? Eh? You are really reaching here. Blacklists? Name anywhere that strange, incoherent precept is being adopted, (or would be adopted) as an extension of our discussion here (which is purely descriptive).

Well, to requote you:

20 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

If it is, they certainly aren't going to care that they haven't kept everyone in the new definition of 'inclusivity'.

Saying that "inclusivity" means you have to exclude certain people is not only oxymoronic, but taken to its logical extreme leads to something functionally no different from a blacklist: consider No Platforming.

I also hinted at this with my previous comment about "LETELU" just before the one you quoted.

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28 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Not to go off on a tangent...but it might be said that Vasquez was initially hired to attract a specific demographic. She was expected to bring in more female viewers, younger viewers and Hispanic-American viewers. I was actually surprised they didn't renew her contract, since her presence helped them tick a few boxes. 

I agree with Larry's comment that they do have some sort of way to measure success and profitability. I was chosen two years in a row to be a Nielsen household. And when I completed the ratings survey (yes they are still weekly journals, done by hand), I was told to list TCM during the hours I viewed TCM. So those ratings are counted and the information is available somewhere.

Wow a Nielsen household,  cool.

What demographic info did you have to provide as part of being a Nielsen 'household'? 

E.g. race,  ethnic group,  sexual orientation, political affiliation,  age,  etc... 

I ask because I'm curious how broken-down the Nielsen rating data can get.   Of course the more data can be broken-down the easier it is to measure the success of any demographically targeted marketing and programming.     

As for Vasquez;  she was hired as their social-media millennial.   In this way she was kind of like an 'influencer'.  Therefore I assume one measure TCM used was her social-media following.    

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I will say it again. Would really like to see TCM go in the direction of Starz. Multiple cable and satellite 'live' channels, and a streaming service. That would allow TCM to have specific ratings.

I can't help but wonder if more people watch TCM than Starz.

TCM is included in streaming packages by all the heavy hitters. We really don't know how many people use Watch TCM. Just the ones who complain when it is out of order.

My personal feeling is Tiffany was not chosen to host because of the people who would be attracted to her. She won a contest and hosted a movie introduction with Robert Osborne. I would like to think Robert was instrumental in letting Tiffany test out for the Saturday afternoon gig.

Okay, one more thing. It will be interesting to see how well The Criterion Channel does. Not convinced it is a replacement for FilmStruck. Don't think the pending WarnerMedia streaming service will be a companion to TCM.

So, it all comes back to TCM for me. Make it bigger and better.

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2 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Wow a Nielsen household,  cool.

What demographic info did you have to provide as part of being a Nielsen 'household'? 

E.g. race,  ethnic group,  sexual orientation, political affiliation,  age,  etc... 

I ask because I'm curious how broken-down the Nielsen rating data can get.   Of course the more data can be broken-down the easier it is to measure the success of any demographically targeted marketing and programming.     

As for Vasquez;  she was hired as their social-media millennial.   In this way she was kind of like an 'influencer'.  Therefore I assume one measure TCM used was her social-media following.    

I was actually selected to be a Nielsen household three years in a row. In 2014 and again in 2015, for a television survey. Then they picked me again in 2016 for a radio survey. The booklets they send are thick and must be filled out in black ink. They call them Nielsen Diaries. But they are really just journals.

Yes, there's a demographics section, where you list things about yourself. But it's not entirely specific. Like it will have a few categories for age, and you check the box next to the age range you fall into. Same for ethnicity/race, though for that question you can check "other" if you don't want to tell them, or if you are multi-racial. 

Some of the information you provide to them over the phone. That's how it starts. They get your phone number (I assumed they got my number from my cable/internet company) and randomly call you one day. One year when they called me, it was someone at Nielsen in Florida. Another year, it was someone at Nielsen in Maryland.

During the initial call, they ask if you'd be interested in doing a survey. But they ask a few preliminary things. Like if you really don't watch TV or don't listen to the radio, they aren't going to choose you. If you decide to choose you, they tell you which week they want you to do it. It's usually a month later, so they have time to get the booklet mailed out to you. I received the booklet about five days before my week started. They call again, the night before your week starts as a reminder and to see if you have any questions. 

Then the week-long survey occurs, and they call you again on the last day to make sure you've completed it and are mailing it back to them. There are little incentives. Like they send money with the booklet. And then after they receive your completed information they send a letter thanking you with more money enclosed. It's only 5 or 10 dollars each time, but that's their way of "rewarding" someone for helping them.

If you happen to not be home, or there's a day when you don't watch TV or listen to the radio, then you put a big X on the page for that day. But they expect you to be watching or listening a certain number of days per week, because that's how they get data.

The grids are designed in quarter-hours. So technically during a one hour period, a person could watch up to four different shows if they keep switching the channel. All of that is written down. If you are watching a three hour movie on TCM, then you list the movie at the time it started, then draw a down arrow to when the movie ended. Or to the point when you stopped watching.

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9 minutes ago, Michael Rennie said:

I will say it again. Would really like to see TCM go in the direction of Starz. Multiple cable and satellite 'live' channels, and a streaming service. That would allow TCM to have specific ratings.

I can't help but wonder if more people watch TCM than Starz.

TCM is included in streaming packages by all the heavy hitters. We really don't know how many people use Watch TCM. Just the ones who complain when it is out of order.

My personal feeling is Tiffany was not chosen to host because of the people who would be attracted to her. She won a contest and hosted a movie introduction with Robert Osborne. I would like to think Robert was instrumental in letting Tiffany test out for the Saturday afternoon gig.

Okay, one more thing. It will be interesting to see how well The Criterion Channel does. Not convinced it is a replacement for FilmStruck. Don't think the pending WarnerMedia streaming service will be a companion to TCM.

So, it all comes back to TCM for me. Make it bigger and better.

I think all of the people who won that contest (there were 20 of them I believe) were "testing out" for a permanent gig. Some of them may not have known it at the time, but that is what happened. For some reason, she impressed them more than the other 19. 

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22 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

But, if, for a while, the ruse of desire is calculable for the uses of discipline soon the repetition of guilt, justification, pseudo-scientific theories, superstition, spurious authorities, and classifications can be seen as the desperate effort to “normalize” formally the disturbance of a discourse of splitting that violates the rational, enlightened claims of its enunciatory modality.

What ?

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11 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

What ?

It's word salad from a post-modernist philosopher. He's messing around with the Sarge.

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8 minutes ago, Gershwin fan said:

It's word salad from a post-modernist philosopher. He's messing around with the Sarge.

Thanks, Gersh. Yeah, after I read the rest of the thread (well, even before ) I figured that out. I mean, just a bit later Joe comes up with another one that should win some kind of award or something. Maybe someone (Jeanne Crain, perhaps?) should start a thread that challenges the posters here on this site to come up with the most bullshite, erudite, pretentious-sounding, nonsensical post and see what happens. But yeah,  clearly joe was having a bit of fun. 

This is one of those threads that goes nowhere, but that for some reason engages a certain kind of poster (some of whom I really like, this is not a criticism of those posters).  Not for me. I was never good at math. And I hate philosophy.

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My bad, apparently TCM wasn’t seeking to attract but rather chase viewers with the Querelle/Maitresse airings…😮

Absolute trash. Meaningless self indulgent shlock. A travesty this was on TCM. I am angry they showed This garbage where they show a live Horse being slaughtered. Utterly disgusting and they should be ashamed. I wont be watching TCM anytime in the future. All the people associated with this "film" I hope burn in eternal hell for this.”

You know that saying about bad movies being train wrecks? Well, this isn't just a train wreck...this is the Godzilla sequel to the mother of all train wrecks.
Ohhhhhh, this film plays like an improv sketch of an art-house film written by lobotomised baboons. Or an unfunny gay-porn version of Barbarella written by homophobes.
Unwatchable. Really. And orange. With half-naked oiled-up sailors and enormous phallic mooring posts.
What on earth Franco Nero and Jeanne Moreau thought they were doing agreeing to take part in this septic tank of a film is quite beyond me.
Truly, the worst movie I have ever tried to watch. I suspect I won't try the book either!”

 

…reference IMDb.💋

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On 4/14/2019 at 9:58 AM, TopBilled said:

Are we starting to say that diversity equals variety? Most fast food joints offer a variety of items to compete against other restaurants. You could say they have a diverse menu. But that's not necessarily cultural diversity.

As for TCM, I do think they market to a diverse audience. They provide a diverse (great variety) selection of films meant to appeal to certain demographics and cultural groups. That's part of the channel's business model. However, while it could boost profitability, it could also mean there's a political agenda. At the end of the day, the bulk of their sales comes from products and services related to studio era films. DVDs of NOW VOYAGER most likely outsell copies of QUERELLE.

Wow what a thread.  On 'Diversity' and word salad.  When in doubt on today's enlightened and modern usage I check some old printed volumes, which cannot be altered overnight on the Internet by all the neurotic social engineers in Big Tech and political think tanks you can fit on the head of a pin.  Here are a few volumes I had sitting in front of me in my bookshelf.

 

Columbia Encyclopedia, First edition 1935, second edition 1950 by Columbia University Press.  2203 pp.

diver
Divernoon
Dives
dividend

Hmm.  You'd think there would be something in there.  Guess not.

 

 

Webster's New World Dictionary, Hardcover, 1692 pages, Published 1984  (first published 1980)

diversity - the state of being "diverse"

diverse - L. Diversus, pp. of divertere, to turn aside < dis-, apart + vertere, to turn (see Verse)    1) varied, dissimilar  2) different, diversified  -Syn see Different
 

 

American Heritage Dictionary Of The English Language 1969-1981 Houghton Mifflin Co, 1550 pp.

diversity - 1) a)the fact or quality of being diverse, difference.  b) A point or respect in which things differ  2) variety, multiformity ; a healthy diversity in one's diet

diverse - distinct in kind ; disparate ; unlike  2) having variety in form ; diversified ; multiform.  middle english, divers

 

 

The New Lexicon Webster's Dictionary Of The English Language, 1230 pp., 1972-1989

diversity - the state or quality of being diverse, an instance of this, variety.  O.F. diversete', diversite'
diverse - adj. different, unlike in character or qualities, various.  M.E. divers, diverse  fr. O.F (influenced by 'diversity')

----------

Well two out of four isn't bad.  At least in the mid to late 1980s the words "diverse" and "variety" were seen by some as at least somewhat interchangeable.

 

Now the usage of the word "diversity" I am familiar with is a bit more concrete, as in the engineering term "wireless diversity".  It is a real product you can hold in your hands and buy (same root word anyhow).  Unlike in politics or social engineering, it works the same no matter what country you are in.  Wireless diversity uses two wireless antennas positioned in different directions to receive the same signal.  One is maybe positioned at a 90 degree angle to the other, to account for phase/directional differences in signal received.  Each antenna goes into a separate input on the receiver.  Only one antenna is used, the other is not (that differentiates it from a simple pair of rabbit ears like TVs used to have).  The signal levels of both antennas are each actively monitored by the receiver.  If one antenna is being used, then the other antenna receives a stronger signal, the receiver will then switch over and use that antenna with the stronger signal instead.

So "diversity" in the technical sense as I have mentioned really seems to have more of a "survival of the fittest" connotation.  Oh the cognitive dissonance... :P

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4 hours ago, JeanneCrain said:

I am angry they showed This garbage where they show a live Horse being slaughtered.

I assume this is a reference to Andrei Rublev?

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39 minutes ago, Fedya said:

I assume this is a reference to Andrei Rublev?

No, that happens in Maitresse too (with Depardieu looking on ). Touki Bouki also has a horse slaughtering scene, I believe.

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5 hours ago, JeanneCrain said:

My bad, apparently TCM wasn’t seeking to attract but rather chase viewers with the Querelle/Maitresse airings…😮

Absolute trash. Meaningless self indulgent shlock. A travesty this was on TCM. I am angry they showed This garbage where they show a live Horse being slaughtered. Utterly disgusting and they should be ashamed. I wont be watching TCM anytime in the future. All the people associated with this "film" I hope burn in eternal hell for this.”

 

You know that saying about bad movies being train wrecks? Well, this isn't just a train wreck...this is the Godzilla sequel to the mother of all train wrecks.
Ohhhhhh, this film plays like an improv sketch of an art-house film written by lobotomised baboons. Or an unfunny gay-porn version of Barbarella written by homophobes.
Unwatchable. Really. And orange. With half-naked oiled-up sailors and enormous phallic mooring posts.
What on earth Franco Nero and Jeanne Moreau thought they were doing agreeing to take part in this septic tank of a film is quite beyond me.
Truly, the worst movie I have ever tried to watch. I suspect I won't try the book either!”

 

 

 

…reference IMDb.💋

 

Somehow I think TCM will survive two harsh reviews from IMDB.

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On 4/10/2019 at 5:07 PM, TopBilled said:

Can't programming be diverse?

Are there certain "types" of viewers you think TCM should be courting, instead of other "types"...?

I own "Querelle" and bought it years ago mostly not knowing what it was like but the director's cachet intriqued me. Have to admit that a bit of it was a little shocking, but all in all, it is a well made film and I was really impressed with Franco Nero's performance in such an offbeat role. Actually, the outside and humongous wooden poles on the wharf were the most frightening phallic symbols I'd ever seen.

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5 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

I own "Querelle" and bought it years ago mostly not knowing what it was like but the director's cachet intriqued me. Have to admit that a bit of it was a little shocking, but all in all, it is a well made film and I was really impressed with Franco Nero's performance in such an offbeat role. Actually, the outside and humongous wooden poles on the wharf were the most frightening phallic symbols I'd ever seen.

Now I think we're all going to have to re-watch it. :) 

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I believe Q was made for homesick sailors who dream of mommy while they toss

and turn restlessly in their seamen encrusted beds. 

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6 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I believe Q was made for homesick sailors who dream of mommy while they toss

and turn restlessly in their seamen encrusted beds. 

Thanks a lot Vautrin...now I can't get that visual out of my head 😲!

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10 hours ago, midwestan said:

Thanks a lot Vautrin...now I can't get that visual out of my head 😲!

That's one of the marks of a cinema classic. :)

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