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TopBilled

Has there ever been a star you liked but then later came to disrespect?

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Yeah, Leni Riefenstahl was my favorite director till I heard about that whole *NAZI* thing. :lol: 

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7 hours ago, Kay said:

 

Way beneath that show's customarily high standard for entertainment.

:D

Really?.....

If not for us "boomers" having long time crushes on ANGELA CARTWRIGHT and fondness for "Mom" figure( and with a good 'un!  ;)  )   JUNE LOCKHART, "Zorro's" GUY WILLIAMS and BILLY MUMY from some of the "cooler" Twilight Zone shows, (AND our hormone driven fancy for MARTA KRISTEN) we might have never bothered with it.  And those so-called "monsters".  :rolleyes: Some of us took to calling the show "Voyage to The Bottom of Space"  due to the "uncanny" similarities to the "monsters" that typically popped in on the Seaview on "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea".   :D 

Sepiatone

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Well, I don't figure how ol' Randy fits this topic.  I never really liked him, but never DIDN'T like him to the point of not having any respect for him.  He just struck me as a vacuum cleaner salesman  playing "cowboy" is all.  

But then too, I know very little about him and also don't know if he's done anything at anytime in his life that would CAUSE me to disrespect him.

:D  Looks like I'll have to go get "Google-y eyed"!  ;) 

Sepiatone

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Interesting topic!!

 

The only actors whose opinion go down in my book are those that commit serious crimes and the annoyingly political actors (both parties). 

 

The crime one I feel is self explanatory. Why would I respect someone who does terrible things (... cough cough Kirk Douglas (who I used to like) cough cough...). 

 

The political one, everyone has the right to their political beliefs. But why do actors always try to play martyrs? If they want to become political activists go do so. I don't care what an actor thinks on political issues and don't want to hear about them. Lol.

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On 4/11/2019 at 1:39 PM, rosebette said:

I can't say that I lose respect for actors for taking mundane roles for money, especially in their later years.  Even Olivier did this, and claimed it was because he needed to educate his children by Joan Plowright.  Basil Rathbone took some awful roles in the 1960s because his adopted daughter had health issues and also because his wife apparently had spent them almost into bankruptcy.  This is an entirely different matter than artists like Woody Allen or Roman Polanski, who have done things that are morally wrong.  I guess my greatest battle with "respect" for an actor is my admiration for/disappointment in Errol Flynn.  I had fallen in love with him as a 10-year-old watching The Adventures of Robin Hood and Captain Blood on syndicated TV in the 1960s and 1970s.  I didn't learn his full biography, including the statutory rape cases until I was in my mid-teens.  Yet, I still "carry the torch," and can completely believe him in those heroic roles, perhaps due to his personal chemistry combined with screen magic.  Now I see him as a gifted, but tragically flawed character, probably someone thrust into stardom before he had the emotional maturity to cope with the spotlight and his inner demons of alcoholism and self-destruction.

Re: Clark Gable,  my first movie star

I found out about Errol Flynn when he died. It was all over the media particularly in the movie mags. And his reputation was for many people part of the image they had that made him such a irrepressibly exciting character.

My first movie star big movie star as a child that I looked up to was Clark Gable.

I first learned about movies, the studios, the directors, the cinematographers, the actresses, the character supporting players, the whole thing by studying ALL of Clark Gable's films.

When he died they had a big write-up on him in Life Magazine. I can remember my father saying, much to the Chagrin of my mother who was a big fan, that Clark Gable got where he got by taking and using the women that he was married to.

At the time I thought my father was just saying that because he didn't like all those Clark Gable movies that my mother made him go to in the 1930s. But as I became older and I read more and more about this movie star, I came to agree that he only married a woman who he could use in some material way.

 There was even a woman in his life who never married because she really thought that they had a great relationship and it would turn out. But she wasn't rich and she didn't have anything else that he needed.

He grew up hard and he was really tight and nasty with his money. He had a bad Relationship with his father and refused to support the man. He was the biggest movie star in Hollywood but that's the way it was. When he married Carole Lombard she insisted that he support his father. She probably told him it was good and necessary PR, but she actually supported her entire family and had no problems with it.

When she died, it was an odd situation because she was with her mother and they, the insurance companies figured out that her mother died first and she died next. Therefore, everything Carole had went to her husband. He completely cut off all the members of her family and told them that was his money and they didn't deserve anything.

 I can go into every marriage he had and show some advantage that he got. Cuz he never married a woman just because he loved her it had to be something in it for him. Carole Lombard and Kay Williams were millionaires. I don't think people realize that about his last wife.

The first wife was a dramatic coach, acting instructor and she was an old middle-aged lady. When 40 was really old. And Clark was in his twenties. He had been engaged to a nice young girl, but he threw her over for this acting coach. The reason I know this story is because years later in the thirties he needed a cover-- he needed a witness as to his whereabouts because of a nutcase woman who claimed he had he was the father of her child back when he was engaged to this young girl. And Clark actually had to go to court. This thrown over fiancee came and testified in his favor. To make amends or to make it look better, MGM gave her a standard job in costuming. Later when they laid off people she lost her job. But I can only say that if he had done that to me I wouldn't have testified for him.

 The second wife was a society lady, again a middle-aged lady who would have been quite quite handsome in her day. This is when 40 was really old and if you saw this lady today you would guess she was in her sixties. LOL. And she seemed like she was older than that. But she had given him the societal Graces and connections that he needed to go forward. He was married to this lady when he I fell in love with Carole Lombard and had it not been for some bad publicity about the relationship he probably never would have married her either. Because he had to give up a substantial amount of money in the divorce. In the end he only married Carole Lombard because Louis B. Mayer demanded that he stop living with Carole or marry her.

 The next wife is a woman that people don't talk much about; she was married to a titled man in England but she got her real money by the death of her second husband who was the original King of Hollywood, Douglas Fairbanks Sr. ( you can't make this stuff up it would have been a great movie!!)

 I think we're beginning to see a pattern here; needless to say the Widow of Douglas Fairbanks was very very wealthy.

His last wife, had been a beautiful Starlet at MGM. And people just think of her as another Starlet. But when she left MGM she married a Latin American millionaire!  He had been abusive towards her, so she did well in the settlement and of course she did extremely well because she got the custody of their two children as well.

I'm not against people getting on and doing well in life and marrying well but that's just the way it was with this particular actor.

 I will always love Clark Gable in the movies and he was very good at what he did.

 He had great relationships with the people he worked with. They respected him as a professional and as a person, people like Spencer Tracy, Hattie McDaniel and Jean Harlow. And his best friends like Ward Bond and Andy Devine.

 And as far as I know he was always kind and decent with his fans.

 The only thing I could add is that he really went through a lot of Hell after his third wife was killed in the airplane crash. But part of his hell was that she was ditching the train to rush home to see about some alleged sexual Affair that he was having with some Hollywood actress who was a blonde.  Another part of his grief was something else that he felt totally responsible for about this tragedy that was not entirely his fault.

 Clark Gable had insisted that a MGM PR man accompany his wife on that Bond tour. The company man had wanted to come back on the train but Carol was so upset about this alleged affair that she insisted that they take the plane. She even had a concert violinist bumped off that plane because she said she was on a government or war related mission. I don't know if it's common knowledge that a MGM  publicity director died that day also with Carole Lombard and her mother on the TWA plane outside of Vegas. And to add to Clark Gable's grief, this man was married and had children. I sincerely felt that he took all of that to heart and was sorry and a decent man about the whole thing.

Character is funny, human beings have so many different facets to their personality.

 As an adult I can understand that. And I still admire Clark Gable in a lot of ways for what he accomplished, yet at the same time as a woman I have to be too aware of the kind of man he was. And I don't have a lot of respect for that kind of man.

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Thanks Princess. Very insightful post.

Also we should mention he got Loretta Young pregnant. I guess that happened while he was married to the wife before Lombard. He didn't seem to ever acknowledge his daughter with Young or take any responsibility for that. It was all on Loretta and Loretta's husband to raise her.

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4 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Thanks Princess. Very insightful post.

Also we should mention he got Loretta Young pregnant. I guess that happened while he was married to the wife before Lombard. He didn't seem to ever acknowledge his daughter with Young or take any responsibility for that. It was all on Loretta and Loretta's husband to raise her. 

He got Loretta Young pregnant when they were making "Call of the Wild" in 1935. I think that she claimed she had adopted the baby, but when her daughter grew up to look like Clark Gable including having his ears, the jig was somewhat up.

" Lewis bore a striking resemblance to Gable, including having ears that stuck out.[3] When Lewis was seven years old, Young had her undergo a painful operation to pin her ears back in another attempt to hide her real parentage.[3] When Lewis was fifteen, Gable came to her mother's house to visit her briefly. Gable asked Lewis about her life and then, upon leaving, kissed her on her forehead. It was the only time that Lewis ever spoke to Gable, and at the time, she had no idea that he was her father."- Wikipedia

So it appears Loretta Young had as much to do about hiding the truth about her daughter with Gable as Gable did.

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40 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

He got Loretta Young pregnant when they were making "Call of the Wild" in 1935. I think that she claimed she had adopted the baby, but when her daughter grew up to look like Clark Gable including having his ears, the jig was somewhat up.

" Lewis bore a striking resemblance to Gable, including having ears that stuck out.[3] When Lewis was seven years old, Young had her undergo a painful operation to pin her ears back in another attempt to hide her real parentage.[3] When Lewis was fifteen, Gable came to her mother's house to visit her briefly. Gable asked Lewis about her life and then, upon leaving, kissed her on her forehead. It was the only time that Lewis ever spoke to Gable, and at the time, she had no idea that he was her father."- Wikipedia

So it appears Loretta Young had as much to do about hiding the truth about her daughter with Gable as Gable did.

 Considering the mores at the time, if Loretta Young wanted to have a career she had no choice but to hide the truth of the situation from the public. When I told my mother this story oh, she said that considering how people felt at that time the daughter was lucky that Loretta had the courage to even adopt her and to personally take care of her. 

 The fact that she hid the truth from her own daughter was indeed rather sad.

The last thing I heard about this issue was that some relatives of hers were proclaiming that Miss Young was a victim of Date Rape.

This announcement came after the Star's death.

I've seen Judy Lewis on Perry Mason. Her face had such a haunting sadness in it; you just had to wonder how difficult her life must have been. I heard later she took up psychology and was counseling trying to help others.

 

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34 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

He got Loretta Young pregnant when they were making "Call of the Wild" in 1935. I think that she claimed she had adopted the baby, but when her daughter grew up to look like Clark Gable including having his ears, the jig was somewhat up.

" Lewis bore a striking resemblance to Gable, including having ears that stuck out.[3] When Lewis was seven years old, Young had her undergo a painful operation to pin her ears back in another attempt to hide her real parentage.[3] When Lewis was fifteen, Gable came to her mother's house to visit her briefly. Gable asked Lewis about her life and then, upon leaving, kissed her on her forehead. It was the only time that Lewis ever spoke to Gable, and at the time, she had no idea that he was her father."- Wikipedia

So it appears Loretta Young had as much to do about hiding the truth about her daughter with Gable as Gable did.

My comment was not about Loretta's part in it, because obviously it does take two to tango. My earlier comment was that Gable didn't take any responsibility. And it's true, he didn't. One peck on the forehead, that's the only gesture he ever made towards Judy Lewis. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's pretty darn pathetic and sad. A lot of men still make the effort even if the mother tries to prevent the father from having an active role. He didn't seem to try. 

If Judy Lewis was 15 in 1950, that means she was 18 in 1953. Gable lived until 1961. So those eight years when she was an adult and less under the control of Loretta and her husband, Judy could have forged a relationship with her father.

We hear nothing about him making any effort to look her up from 1953 forward. Nothing to indicate he provided anything for her in his will when he died. He shirked his responsibility all the way through. If she looked like him, then she probably was a constant reminder to her mother that she was a Gable, not a Lewis. And Clark Gable had no other children while he was alive (a son was born posthumously). So he went his whole life without being a father, when he had a daughter right there in that same wealthy community.

It really is a horrible set of circumstances when you think about it. It would seem he did nothing to make Judy Lewis' life any easier.

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9 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

 Considering the mores at the time, if Loretta Young wanted to have a career she had no choice but to hide the truth of the situation from the public. When I told my mother this story oh, she said that considering how people felt at that time the daughter was lucky that Loretta had the courage to even adopt her and to personally take care of her. 

 The fact that she hid the truth from her own daughter was indeed rather sad.

The last thing I heard about this issue was that some relatives of hers were proclaiming that Miss Young was a victim of Date Rape.

This announcement came after the Star's death.

I've seen Judy Lewis on Perry Mason. Her face had such a haunting sadness in it; you just had to wonder how difficult her life must have been. I heard later she took up psychology and was counseling trying to help others.

Some actresses in those days (probably other starlets that Gable got pregnant) had secret abortions. Loretta chose to keep the child and to raise it. 

Judy Lewis worked in television soap operas in the 1970s and 1980s. I think she did producing and some directing. She had become a protege of executive producer Gloria Monty at General Hospital. But if memory serves correctly, she departed that series (which was filmed in Hollywood) and went to New York. She took a better job producing the short-lived soap Texas for Procter & Gamble, which was filmed in NYC from 1980 to 1982. After that is when I think she left show biz and went into counseling.

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2 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

My comment was not about Loretta's part in it, because obviously it does take two to tango. My earlier comment was that Gable didn't take any responsibility. And it's true, he didn't. One peck on the forehead, that's the only gesture he ever made towards Judy Lewis. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's pretty darn pathetic and sad. A lot of men still make the effort even if the mother tries to prevent the father from having an active role. He didn't seem to try. 

If Judy Lewis was 15 in 1950, that means she was 18 in 1953. Gable lived until 1961. So those eight years when she was an adult and less under the control of Loretta and her husband, Judy could have forged a relationship with her father.

We hear nothing about him making any effort to look her up from 1953 forward. Nothing to indicate he provided anything for her in his will when he died. He shirked his responsibility all the way through. If she looked like him, then she probably was a constant reminder to her mother that she was a Gable, not a Lewis. And Clark Gable had no other children while he was alive (a son was born posthumously). So he went his whole life without being a father, when he had a daughter right there in that same wealthy community.

It really is a horrible set of circumstances when you think about it. It would seem he did nothing to make Judy Lewis' life any easier.

I get what you are saying about  Gable not being interested in the only child he had while he was alive, and I get what Princess of Tap is saying about the mores of the day.  I don't think Loretta Young or Gable were guiltless in this mess.  But there is this odd bit of history in Wikipedia -

" After Gable's death, Lewis, at age 31, finally confronted her mother about the mystery behind her parentage.[3] Young became nauseated, but acknowledged that she and Gable were Lewis's biological parents.[3] In 1994, Lewis published a book about her life entitled Uncommon Knowledge in which she stated that Gable was her father; Young refused to speak with her for three years after the book was published. Loretta Young died on August 12, 2000, at age 87; her autobiography, published posthumously, confirmed that Gable was indeed Lewis's father.[3]"

So by 1994 people were pretty accepting of children born out of wedlock and Loretta Young wouldn't even speak to her daughter because she wrote about it! I read somewhere else - wish I could remember where - that Young had called her daughter the "product of a mortal sin" when they had that first confrontational conversation.

A bit OT but interesting - in 2000 "Loose Ankles" ended its reign as the oldest film with both of its costars playing adult characters to still be alive when both Loretta Young and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. died. That title is currently held by "Young Man with a Horn" (1950) if you consider Doris Day and Kirk Douglas to be the leads, but if you consider Lauren Bacall to be the lead then that title is currently held by some other film.

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35 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

I get what you are saying about  Gable not being interested in the only child he had while he was alive, and I get what Princess of Tap is saying about the mores of the day.  I don't think Loretta Young or Gable were guiltless in this mess.  But there is this odd bit of history in Wikipedia -

" After Gable's death, Lewis, at age 31, finally confronted her mother about the mystery behind her parentage.[3] Young became nauseated, but acknowledged that she and Gable were Lewis's biological parents.[3] In 1994, Lewis published a book about her life entitled Uncommon Knowledge in which she stated that Gable was her father; Young refused to speak with her for three years after the book was published. Loretta Young died on August 12, 2000, at age 87; her autobiography, published posthumously, confirmed that Gable was indeed Lewis's father.[3]"

So by 1994 people were pretty accepting of children born out of wedlock and Loretta Young wouldn't even speak to her daughter because she wrote about it! I read somewhere else - wish I could remember where - that Young had called her daughter the "product of a mortal sin" when they had that first confrontational conversation.

A bit OT but interesting - in 2000 "Loose Ankles" ended its reign as the oldest film with both of its costars playing adult characters to still be alive when both Loretta Young and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. died. That title is currently held by "Young Man with a Horn" (1950) if you consider Doris Day and Kirk Douglas to be the leads, but if you consider Lauren Bacall to be the lead then that title is currently held by some other film.

I totally understand Judy Lewis' need to tell her own story, but Loretta must have felt very hurt by it. Loretta doesn't seem like someone who would hold a grudge. And she had been very close to Judy, since Judy was her only daughter. I can imagine how difficult those three years were for the entire Lewis family.

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15 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

And those so-called "monsters".  :rolleyes: Some of us took to calling the show "Voyage to The Bottom of Space"  due to the "uncanny" similarities to the "monsters" that typically popped in on the Seaview on "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea".   :D 

WHAT!!! How dare you... When Tybo comes to turn you into a vegetable it's certainly going to be cauliflower, because it doesn't have any taste, either.

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There is one more tidbit about Gable.  He had a long standing affair with Joan Crawford, which was on and off affair during the 1930s.  Most likely, he was the love of her life.  This guy got around openly flaunting his affairs to his second wife, Ria.

Here is a website that chronicles his marriage history: http://www.legendaryclarkgable.com/wives.html/.

Edited by arpirose

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7 hours ago, calvinnme said:

 

A bit OT but interesting - in 2000 "Loose Ankles" ended its reign as the oldest film with both of its costars playing adult characters to still be alive when both Loretta Young and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. died. That title is currently held by "Young Man with a Horn" (1950) if you consider Doris Day and Kirk Douglas to be the leads, but if you consider Lauren Bacall to be the lead then that title is currently held by some other film. 

I don't quite get the premise. Both actors alive when those two died ? which was 2000.

So basically, the oldest film where the two leads are still alive today ? Because if they are alive today, they were certainly alive in 2000. Can someone explain it like I'm a young child ? :wacko:

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17 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

I don't quite get the premise. Both actors alive when those two died ? which was 2000.

So basically, the oldest film where the two leads are still alive today ? Because if they are alive today, they were certainly alive in 2000. Can someone explain it like I'm a young child ? :wacko:

In May 2000 when Douglas Fairbanks died, LOOSE ANKLES was a 70 year old film (released in February 1930). Loretta Young died three months later.

Now today in 2019, the leads for YOUNG MAN WITH A HORN (Kirk Douglas & Doris Day) are still alive. That film was released in February 1950. So it is a 69 year old film. 

If Day and Douglas are both still living in February 2020, then it will tie the record of 70 years that LOOSE ANKLES had with Fairbanks & Young.

Make sense?

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33 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

In May 2000 when Douglas Fairbanks died, LOOSE ANKLES was a 70 year old film (released in February 1930). Loretta Young died three months later.

Now today in 2019, the leads for YOUNG MAN WITH A HORN (Kirk Douglas & Doris Day) are still alive. That film was released in February 1950. So it is a 69 year old film. 

If Day and Douglas are both still living in February 2020, then it will tie the record of 70 years that LOOSE ANKLES had with Fairbanks & Young.

Make sense?

Thanks TopBilled. You put it much better than I did.

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6 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

Thanks TopBilled. You put it much better than I did.

You're welcome calvin. :) 

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1 hour ago, arpirose said:

There is one more tidbit about Gable.  He had a long standing affair with Joan Crawford, which was on and off affair during the 1930s.  Most likely, he was the love of her life.  This guy got around openly flaunting his affairs to his second wife *Ria.

Here is a web page that chronicles  his marriage history.

http://www.legendaryclarkgable.com/wives.html

 Crawford and Gable we're so similar--  they came up with the Hard Knocks and they were willing to do anything to get ahead.

And Crawford also had a long-standing affair with a great actress, Barbara Stanwyck.

However, the love of Barbara Stanwyck's life was always Robert Taylor.

 

*BTW--  Gable's second wife was named Rhea Langham.

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56 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

Thanks TopBilled. You put it much better than I did.

Its the movie release till the day they died, got it ! I thought it had to do with today's date. And got it all confused.

Does anyone know where there is a list of this ? I wonder what other films are next in line. Very fascinating.

I'm sure this was the last thing on their minds when they were filming this movie, if they even remember being in it.

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34 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

Its the movie release till the day they died, got it ! I thought it had to do with today's date. And got it all confused.

Does anyone know where there is a list of this ? I wonder what other films are next in line. Very fascinating.

I'm sure this was the last thing on their minds when they were filming this movie, if they even remember being in it.

Not sure there is a list for this. But if someone glanced at the thread for nonagenarian birthdays (meaning people still living), they could probably look up one of those stars' earlier films. See where they played a lead role, then check if any of their lead costars are also still living.

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7 hours ago, TopBilled said:

In May 2000 when Douglas Fairbanks died, LOOSE ANKLES was a 70 year old film (released in February 1930). Loretta Young died three months later.

 

Actually TB, the way you worded it appears you're saying LORETTA YOUNG died three months  AFTER that movie's release in 1930!  :o

At any rate, I don't see any connection to any of this with the thread's intended topic.  :huh:

Sepiatone

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

Actually TB, the way you worded it appears you're saying LORETTA YOUNG died three months  AFTER that movie's release in 1930!  :o

At any rate, I don't see any connection to any of this with the thread's intended topic.  :huh:

Sepiatone

It was said earlier in the thread when Young died. And my comment about her dying three months later was obviously referring to her dying three months after Fairbanks. 

As you know a lot of threads veer slightly (sometimes wildly) off topic. :) 

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