Princess of Tap Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, TheCid said: I did not say there was a "monolithic so-called white vote." I'm just trying to point out that Biden cannot win the nomination, much less the presidency without a significant number of white voters. That's how he is defeating Sanders now - a coalition of many voting "blocks." Blacks are a large part of that coalition. A very large percentage of the voters who made Biden successful are white, blue-collar workers and white suburban women, among other white, Latino, Asian, etc. voters. I also think we may need to point out that not all blacks vote for Dems, much less for one Dem. My original post was to say that we do not need to overemphasize blacks supporting Biden or the Dem Party such that it appears that the Dem Party is the black party. This is offensive to whites, Latinos, Asians, etc. It's reality that black people predominately support the Democratic Party. And that they are an important base of that party. Obviously there are other people in the party who are also important. But if any one group or individual(s) resents another group being respected and listened to as an important electoral part of the Democratic Party, then that group, or individual(s) doesn't really belong in a big tent party. Some might even construe that resentment as racism. The reason Joe Biden is the party's choice is because he can relate to and listen to and speak to all these different elements in the Democratic party such as college-educated Suburban white women, black Americans, Working Class People of all Races, etc. As I said before, there are going to be some people in America who do not want to be associated with anything that is even slightly -- even remotely --associated with black people. And they know who they are and they know what party they belong in. LOL 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesJazGuitar Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 36 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said: But if any one group or individual(s) resents another group being respected and listened to as an important electoral part of the Democratic Party, then that group, or individual(s) doesn't really belong in a big tent party. Some might even construe that resentment as racism. I agree with the above but in the Dem party it is mostly women that resent men, and people-of-color that resent whites. (thus white-males are the most resented members of the Dem party). Of course in the GOP it is the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites
ElCid Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Princess of Tap said: It's reality that black people predominately support the Democratic Party. And that they are an important base of that party. Obviously there are other people in the party who are also important. But if any one group or individual(s) resents another group being respected and listened to as an important electoral part of the Democratic Party, then that group, or individual(s) doesn't really belong in a big tent party. Some might even construe that resentment as racism. The reason Joe Biden is the party's choice is because he can relate to and listen to and speak to all these different elements in the Democratic party such as college-educated Suburban white women, black Americans, Working Class People of all Races, etc. As I said before, there are going to be some people in America who do not want to be associated with anything that is even slightly -- even remotely --associated with black people. And they know who they are and they know what party they belong in. LOL My original post was to say that we do not need to overemphasize blacks supporting Biden or the Dem Party such that it appears that the Dem Party is the black party. This is offensive to whites, Latinos, Asians, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Princess of Tap Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 5:10 PM, mr6666 said: Lindsay likes Joe! Link to post Share on other sites
mr6666 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Natasha Korecki @natashakorecki · 19m NEW: @JoeBiden leads Bernie Sanders 56% to 36% in Illinois, according to new WGN-TV/Emerson College poll. Interestingly, 50.2% of those polled said Sanders had the best health care policy compared to Biden's 49.8% Link to post Share on other sites
ElCid Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 43 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said: Lindsay [Graham] likes Joe! Until Biden runs against Trump. Then Graham will be all over about how bad Biden is. Link to post Share on other sites
Bogie56 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 6 hours ago, TheCid said: Until Biden runs against Trump. Then Graham will be all over about how bad Biden is. I believe that gushing testimony in favour of Joe Biden from Lindsay Graham is from some time ago. The gloves are already off as Graham is leading the charge into a Senate investigation into Hunter Biden. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesJazGuitar Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Bogie56 said: I believe that gushing testimony in favour of Joe Biden from Lindsay Graham is from some time ago. The gloves are already off as Graham is leading the charge into a Senate investigation into Hunter Biden. It's from 2016. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mr6666 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Biden endorses Warren's bankruptcy plan, calling it 'one of the things that I think Bernie and I will agree on' https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/politics/joe-biden-elizabeth-warren-bankruptcy-plan/index.html?utm_content=2020-03-14T22%3A15%3A05&utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=twCNN Link to post Share on other sites
Bogie56 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 TheCid probably will disregard this as it is coming from a Brit, but former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair was on Fareed this morning and doubted that America had the appetite to get behind Bernie Sanders enough fo him to win. He likened him to Jeremy Corbyn who had a disastrous election against Boris Johnson's conservative party. Like Sanders, Crobyn needed people to come out in large numbers and it simply didn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites
mr6666 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Courting progressives, Biden shifts policy stances on free college, bankruptcy The Democratic front-runner is extending an olive branch to Sanders and Warren and their supporters. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/courting-progressives-biden-shifts-policy-stances-free-college-bankruptcy-n1159636 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ElCid Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, mr6666 said: Courting progressives, Biden shifts policy stances on free college, bankruptcy The Democratic front-runner is extending an olive branch to Sanders and Warren and their supporters. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/courting-progressives-biden-shifts-policy-stances-free-college-bankruptcy-n1159636 He is close to losing my vote. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mr6666 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Joe Biden (Text Join to 30330) @JoeBiden · 3h First: Bernie has put forward a plan that would make public colleges and universities free for families whose income is below $125,000. It's a good idea, and after consideration, I am proud to add it to my platform. @JoeBiden · 3h Second: Few people in the country understand how bankruptcy hurts working families more than Elizabeth Warren. Today, I am fully endorsing and adopting her bankruptcy plan, which she called "Fixing Our Bankruptcy System to Give People a Second Chance." 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bogie56 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 10:50 PM, TheCid said: He is close to losing my vote. You would prefer Trump to Biden because of this? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bogie56 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Who are the women probably on Joe Biden’s shortlist for vice president? The list includes Sens. Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren, as well as Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. Amber Phillips Link to post Share on other sites
JamesJazGuitar Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 6:50 PM, TheCid said: He is close to losing my vote. This is just BS pandering as done by all politicians. Dems won't be able to implement any of it so it doesn't matter what is promised. Link to post Share on other sites
ElCid Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said: This is just BS pandering as done by all politicians. Dems won't be able to implement any of it so it doesn't matter what is promised. Of course it is pandering, but if it results in him losing votes in critical districts and states and causing down ballot Dems to lose, then it matters. As with a lot in politics, it doesn't matter if it is feasible or not, just whether or not it helps or hurts the candidate to gain votes. Link to post Share on other sites
cigarjoe Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 6:50 PM, TheCid said: He is close to losing my vote. No sweat you'll probably be dead anyway by then... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesJazGuitar Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, TheCid said: Of course it is pandering, but if it results in him losing votes in critical districts and states and causing down ballot Dems to lose, then it matters. As with a lot in politics, it doesn't matter if it is feasible or not, just whether or not it helps or hurts the candidate to gain votes. I agree with this but now I have to ask you the type of questions Bogie has been asking; why would such pandering impact now YOU, CID, would vote? Yea, such over-the-top pandering can impact certain voters in critical districts and states, BUT, as Bogie has been implying for the last 6 months or more; those "certain voters" are not paying attention to the bigger picture; defeating Trump and reducing overall GOP power in the USA by buying into 'they are extremist" rhetoric. When you say "He is close to losing my vote." you sound like you're not paying attention. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ElCid Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said: I agree with this but now I have to ask you the type of questions Bogie has been asking; why would such pandering impact now YOU, CID, would vote? Yea, such over-the-top pandering can impact certain voters in critical districts and states, BUT, as Bogie has been implying for the last 6 months or more; those "certain voters" are not paying attention to the bigger picture; defeating Trump and reducing overall GOP power in the USA by buying into 'they are extremist" rhetoric. When you say "He is close to losing my vote." you sound like you're not paying attention. "When you say "He is close to losing my vote." you sound like you're not paying attention." How so? To what am I not paying attention? It really won't matter if I vote for him (or any Dem) in Nov since S.C. will go big for Trump and other GOPers. So, I can choose not to vote for him. On the other hand, if I lived in an area where it would matter, I might choose not to vote for a presidential choice. Tough call. My reaction is that Biden is now adopting the progressive/socialist policies of Sanders and Warren. I am as opposed to those policies as I am to Trump and the GOPers. Sort of like a choice of voting for Hitler or Stalin. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesJazGuitar Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, TheCid said: "When you say "He is close to losing my vote." you sound like you're not paying attention." How so? To what am I not paying attention? It really won't matter if I vote for him (or any Dem) in Nov since S.C. will go big for Trump and other GOPers. So, I can choose not to vote for him. On the other hand, if I lived in an area where it would matter, I might choose not to vote for a presidential choice. Tough call. My reaction is that Biden is now adopting the progressive/socialist policies of Sanders and Warren. I am as opposed to those policies as I am to Trump and the GOPers. Sort of like a choice of voting for Hitler or Stalin. Anyone that decides to NOT vote for the Dem Presidential candidate because said candidate verbally took on some of the progressive agenda during the Dem primary, is NOT paying attention to the goal; defeating Trump. Your "on the other hand" makes me nervous, since generally I believe you have a grounded view when it comes to U.S. politics. If someone that follows politics to the degree you do, and is generally "of sound mind" can make such a misguided decision as "I might choose not to vote for a Presidential choice" or makes statements like "voting for Hitler or Stalin", I need to be prepared for 4 more years of Trump. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ElCid Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said: Anyone that decides to NOT vote for the Dem Presidential candidate because said candidate verbally took on some of the progressive agenda during the Dem primary, is NOT paying attention to the goal; defeating Trump. Your "on the other hand" makes me nervous, since generally I believe you have a grounded view when it comes to U.S. politics. If someone that follows politics to the degree you do, and is generally "of sound mind" can make such a misguided decision as "I might choose not to vote for a Presidential choice" or makes statements like "voting for Hitler or Stalin", I need to be prepared for 4 more years of Trump. I am well grounded in US politics and history and generally of sound mind. On the latter, my wife may disagree. However, she dislikes Trump more than I do and she would not vote for Sanders and the liberal socialist policies he proposes. She is very offended by the free college proposal, even if it would likely never get through the Senate. Yes, you do need to be prepared for four more years of Trump. If Biden goes too far left, he will lose the moderate Republicans, independents and some Democrats. Enough to give Trump the edge. Incidentally, I have two close friends. One will vote for Trump again no matter what and the other will vote for any Dem no matter what. I tend to be more independent than that. As for the Hitler or Stalin line, that is my comparison of the contrast between Trump and Sanders. As I originally said, Biden is "close to losing my vote." He hasn't lost it quite yet, but in S.C. it doesn't matter anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesJazGuitar Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, TheCid said: I am well grounded in US politics and history and generally of sound mind. On the latter, my wife may disagree. However, she dislikes Trump more than I do and she would not vote for Sanders and the liberal socialist policies he proposes. She is very offended by the free college proposal, even if it would likely never get through the Senate. Yes, you do need to be prepared for four more years of Trump. If Biden goes too far left, he will lose the moderate Republicans, independents and some Democrats. Enough to give Trump the edge. Incidentally, I have two close friends. One will vote for Trump again no matter what and the other will vote for any Dem no matter what. I tend to be more independent than that. As for the Hitler or Stalin line, that is my comparison of the contrast between Trump and Sanders. As I originally said, Biden is "close to losing my vote." He hasn't lost it quite yet, but in S.C. it doesn't matter anyway. Thanks for the feedback. Those were not backhanded complements. I would hope that the vast majority of those that dislike-Trump would understand that "If Biden goes too far left" it is was just rhetoric to win the primary. I.e. that he doesn't really believe this and wouldn't try to implement it. Anyhow you confirmed my fear and what Bogie has been laying down for a while now (which until now, I felt was overblown). 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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