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Should other non-Caucasian actors become Star of the Month?

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4 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

I never honestly expect TCM to listen to any of my suggestions about anything. If I was only interested in predicting what the TCM brass were going to schedule, then I'd simply copy 'n paste one of the old schedules over and over again. In other words, I don't expect them to change anything from their S.O.P. My suggestions are always what I would like to see, not what I expect them to show.

Great post! Thank you.

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17 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

I never honestly expect TCM to listen to any of my suggestions about anything. If I was only interested in predicting what the TCM brass were going to schedule, then I'd simply copy 'n paste one of the old schedules over and over again. In other words, I don't expect them to change anything from their S.O.P. My suggestions are always what I would like to see, not what I expect them to show.

Good. Then you wont be disappointed!

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I would love to see more non-white actors as Star of the Month, but it is hard to see it happening in a positive way since so many minority roles were either side to the main plot and/or played up negative stereotypes. I like some of the suggestions from earlier in this post though! 

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I do believe TCM should at least listen. There are many out of the box thinkers in this forum and the advice is free. I do come from the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" world. That doesn't always work.

20110809120605-8td.jpg

I've moved on.

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4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

and I highly doubt he had the clout to determine what roles he would play

To be fair, even Bette Davis had to go to extreme measures to get that clout.

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21 minutes ago, Fedya said:

To be fair, even Bette Davis had to go to extreme measures to get that clout.

Correct;   She had to go to England and try to make films for British studios before Jack Warner took the legal steps to convince the studios they wouldn't be able to release any films with Davis while she was under contact with Warner.   But Jack did kind of reward her when she returned;  I.e. she was involved in mostly high quality projects for the next 8 or so years.    (but they did have a spat over the amount Davis was payed for The Little Foxes compared to what Warner received from Samuel Goldwyn for the loan-out,  with Jack providing more money after the 'battle').

 

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Some great but unsung African-American actors should be stars of the month:

Madame Sul-Te-Wan, the first black actor to sign a film contract;

Leigh Whipper, the first black actor to join Actors Equity; and one of the founders of the Negro Actors Guild;

Clarence Muse, the first black actor to star in a film.

sul-Te-Wan_madame.jpg

AAV-IFC_Leigh_Whipper.gif

 

MV5BMTYzODU0NTEwN15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTEx

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7 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I guess it all depends on what a dignified role is;  Ahn played criminal roles;  e.g. hired killers.   

But why not;  he was an actor.  (and I highly doubt he had the clout to determine what roles he would play).

Anyhow,  for TCM to select any non-Caucasian actor as SOTM (or even a day of SUTS),   the majority of the films shown should be English language films.   The Asian actor I would feature would be Victor_Sen_Yung.    

 

I will defer to what I assume is probably your superior knowledge of the breadth of his career. I personally haven't seen him in any criminal roles, so I may have been speaking out of turn. I've just been impressed that in the roles I have seen him in that I've never seen any "me so solly, you wait here, please!" roles all too common for Asian actors at the time.

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1 hour ago, Swithin said:

Some great but unsung African-American actors should be stars of the month:

Madame Sul-Te-Wan, the first black actor to sign a film contract;

Leigh Whipper, the first black actor to join Actors Equity; and one of the founders of the Negro Actors Guild;

Clarence Muse, the first black actor to star in a film.

sul-Te-Wan_madame.jpg

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MV5BMTYzODU0NTEwN15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTEx

There has to be a special place in this group for an unbelievably talented singing actress named Juanita Hall.

Juanita Hall was the first African American woman to win a Tony Award. That was for her famous role as Bloody Mary in Rodgers and Hammerstein's  "South Pacific". She also portrayed that role in the movie adaptation.

In addition to that, Juanita Hall portrayed Madame Liang in the movie  "The Flower Drum Song".

She was also a director of the famous African American Hall Johnson Choir.

So you all have seen her as Bloody Mary in "South Pacific". So what we have here is a mixed-race woman identifying as black, who is famous for portraying Asians in Rodgers and Hammerstein's musicals.

In South Pacific she sang "Happy Talk" and "Bali Hai". In "The Flower Drum Song", she was featured in the number "Chop Suey".

She was the only major performer in "The Flower Drum Song" movie who was not actually Asian.

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6 hours ago, Michael Rennie said:

I do believe TCM should at least listen. There are many out of the box thinkers in this forum and the advice is free. I do come from the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" world. That doesn't always work.

It has been suggested in another recent thread that TCM hosts are very wary of we contributors to the TCM Message boards, unlike those posters in other forums like Facebook and Instagram, probably primarily because of all the negative comments about the hosts, and all of you have said something hateful about Ben Mankiewicz, Tiffany Vasquez or Alicia Malone on here, you know who you are. Somebody claimed that even Robert Osborne when once asked about these message boards, rolled his eyes and said "No comment". So, if you want anyone from TCM to actually listen to, you probably will have a better chance if you post in some other forum then here, because I think there's a built-in prejudice against our thoughts.

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9 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Apologies to Sewwhite

Oh, I was just having a little fun. I have been guilty on numerous occasions of posting something someone else just said only a handful of posts above mine, usually because I was so eager to make some point, I didn't thoroughly read everything that had been said. No worries.

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Image result for Philip Ahn

With Ahn we'd get a two fer, SOTM and he was the bad guy in Tiki Film Noir Hell's Half Acre, and he's also in other Noir's Impact, Macao, and Hong Kong Confidential.

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Y'know.... you could probably fill MORE than a month with movies in which Caucasian actors play NON Caucasian roles....  like....

WARNER OLAND

ELI WALLACH

SAM JAFFE

SUSAN KOHNER

PAUL MUNI

Well....you get the idea.  ;)

Sepiatone

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8 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

It has been suggested in another recent thread that TCM hosts are very wary of we contributors to the TCM Message boards, unlike those posters in other forums like Facebook and Instagram, probably primarily because of all the negative comments about the hosts, and all of you have said something hateful about Ben Mankiewicz, Tiffany Vasquez or Alicia Malone on here, you know who you are. Somebody claimed that even Robert Osborne when once asked about these message boards, rolled his eyes and said "No comment". So, if you want anyone from TCM to actually listen to, you probably will have a better chance if you post in some other forum then here, because I think there's a built-in prejudice against our thoughts.

I don't think that's the case. I think TCM sponsors the message boards to enhance viewers' experience with classic films. And I've seen times where TCM employees to pop on to the threads to offer a bit of insight about programming. Someone did that recently in the thread I made about memorial tributes after Doris Day passed away.

Also, I would think they use the message boards to gauge what's going over well with viewers, in terms of spotlights and special series that are being offered. They wouldn't just set up a message board and ignore it. It's part of their business model.

As for moderators deleting posts or pulling threads that criticize the hosts, it is their prerogative to make sure their hosts feel safe and are accorded the proper respect. In fact, it would be more concerning if they let disparaging remarks about the hosts remain posted on the site.

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2 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Image result for Philip Ahn

With Ahn we'd get a two fer, SOTM and he was the bad guy in Tiki Film Noir Hell's Half Acre, and he's also in other Noir's Impact, Macao, and Hong Kong Confidential.

He's excellent in HELL'S HALF ACRE. That's a fully fleshed out role for an Asian actor. He's just as important to the story as the leads. Republic Pictures was known for offering opportunities to actors they might not receive at other major studios.

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9 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

There has to be a special place in this group for an unbelievably talented singing actress named Juanita Hall.

Juanita Hall was the first African American woman to win a Tony Award. That was for her famous role as Bloody Mary in Rodgers and Hammerstein's  "South Pacific". She also portrayed that role in the movie adaptation.

In addition to that, Juanita Hall portrayed Madame Liang in the movie  "The Flower Drum Song".

She was also a director of the famous African American Hall Johnson Choir.

So you all have seen her as Bloody Mary in "South Pacific". So what we have here is a mixed-race woman identifying as black, who is famous for portraying Asians in Rodgers and Hammerstein's musicals.

In South Pacific she sang "Happy Talk" and "Bali Hai". In "The Flower Drum Song", she was featured in the number "Chop Suey".

She was the only major performer in "The Flower Drum Song" movie who was not actually Asian.

Actually, Hall didn't sing those songs in the film, she was dubbed. (Not sure why as she sang the songs on the stage for several YEARS in the role). She wasn't happy about that.

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She was dubbed by Muriel Smith, who played the part in the London production.

So I guess it was a way to preserve two stage performances, one visually, one vocally.

Not sure whose idea that was.

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MERLE OBERON was half INDIAN AND HALF WELSH.  She aggressively hid her heritage from the public  She claimed that her mother, who lived in her house was her maid. This was a very shameful act that she concealed.  

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2 hours ago, TopBilled said:

I don't think that's the case. I think TCM sponsors the message boards to enhance viewers' experience with classic films. And I've seen times where TCM employees to pop on to the threads to offer a bit of insight about programming. Someone did that recently in the thread I made about memorial tributes after Doris Day passed away.

Also, I would think they use the message boards to gauge what's going over well with viewers, in terms of spotlights and special series that are being offered. They wouldn't just set up a message board and ignore it. It's part of their business model.

I think there's truth in what you say, but I think there's at least some truth in what I say as well. It doesn't have to be completely one way or the other, obviously. I'm sure TCM finds some value in allowing these boards to continue to exist, but I also think TCM, like all corporate entities, are infinitely more interested in generating reaction from their consumers on the giant social media platforms than on the relatively antiquated message boards, which I think probably have a far smaller number of users. For example, Eddie Mueller always thanks people who react to Noir Alley on Facebook and Instagram. I've never heard him mention these message boards.

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1 hour ago, sewhite2000 said:

I think there's truth in what you say, but I think there's at least some truth in what I say as well. It doesn't have to be completely one way or the other, obviously. I'm sure TCM finds some value in allowing these boards to continue to exist, but I also think TCM, like all corporate entities, are infinitely more interested in generating reaction from their consumers on the giant social media platforms than on the relatively antiquated message boards, which I think probably have a far smaller number of users. For example, Eddie Mueller always thanks people who react to Noir Alley on Facebook and Instagram. I've never heard him mention these message boards.

I think Eddie may have posted on this site. Unless I'm mistaken about that.

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2 hours ago, Hibi said:

Actually, Hall didn't sing those songs in the film, she was dubbed. (Not sure why as she sang the songs on the stage for several YEARS in the role). She wasn't happy about that.

Actually, I know that. But since she had sung those songs for nearly 2,000 performances on Broadway, they went ahead and used her because she was perfect for the part and they were loyal people.

Believe It or Not, people get older and the voice is just like any other muscle as it ages. I believe she wasn't able to sing as well as she had earlier on Broadway. And Dick Rogers was extremely picky with what his songs sounded like in Public Presentation.

I can recall Jan Clayton talking about how he was a stickler for perfect pitch. She was the original female lead on Broadway in "Carousel".

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I think Mitzi Gaynor was the only principal player who was NOT dubbed in South Pacific.

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Like Sepiatone, I was thinking Paul Muni.

As for these message boards, many complain TCM doesn't listen. This happens in the complaint (Watch TCM) section frequently.

I think there will always be mixed feelings toward the hosts.

I refuse to partake in social media. I do not expect TCM to pay any attention to my opinion.

I sometimes go for days without TCM, but not Murder, She Wrote.😁

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6 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Image result for Philip Ahn

With Ahn we'd get a two fer, SOTM and he was the bad guy in Tiki Film Noir Hell's Half Acre, and he's also in other Noir's Impact, Macao, and Hong Kong Confidential.

also Back To Bataan with Duke Wayne.

and of course the wise and beneficent Master khan.

Image result for master khan kung fu

 

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