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sewhite2000

Is TCM deliberately distorting history by ignoring the existence of AMC in their new promos?

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HERE IS A BEAUTIFUL CLIP HONORING THE Z CHANNELS DOCUMENTARY THE MAGNIFICENT OBSESSION.

 

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1 hour ago, arpirose said:

You guys are totally missing the  big picture.  The first channel to show very classic films was the late and lamented Z CHANNEL. They introduced films that were literally forgotten to film history crowd.They played a great number of PARAMOUNT FILMS that were PRECode. I do not think any of you had the pleasure to see the films on THE Z CHANNEL.  It came through CENTURY COMMUNICATioNS  Los Angeles IN THE 1970S TO THE I990'S.It showed  everything including interviews with actors and famous directors.  The famed film historian and critic CHARLES CHAMPLIN was the host many of these interviews. I had taped these movies.  However, when I MOVED, I LET MY TAPES GO.  I regret my actions. It would have been fantastic film history lesson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_Channel:_A_Magnificent_Obsession

This was the documentary about the Z CHANNEL.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050500843.html?noredirect=on

The Z channel actually had some influence on an Oscar race. Some feel it helped get the film The Conversation a Best picture nomination.

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AMC was my gateway into classic film in the late 90s when I was about 12 or 13 (TCM was not yet part of our cable lineup).  I remember at this time they actually did show some movies in letterboxed widescreen, but only in the late evening or early morning hours (like after midnight).  They would actually repeat the same movies throughout the day, so for instance, they might air Gypsy in pan-and-scan at 3:00 pm, then again in P&S at 7:00 pm, and then in widescreen at 11:00 pm.  They even had their own bumper to explain the benefits of letterboxing, which you can watch here!

While this video mentions AMC's film preservation festival, I remember a slightly modified version airing frequently over the next several years.

Toward the end of that classics-exclusive era, they would show some movies made post 60s that required editing for TV (like Valmont and Apocalypse Now), but even then I think they only edited out nudity rather than profanity/violence. And I seem to recall some of these films being shown entirely uncut after 11:00 pm.

When TCM was finally added to our lineup, the big advantage to me was their showing silent films and foreign films, as AMC focused primarily on American movies produced from the 1930s through the 60s.

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No problem. Sometimes I will read parts of a thread and come back to reply much later.

I wish the "old" AMC was still on.

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3 hours ago, Michael Rennie said:

This is a longer/earlier version of what use to play in the past. Haven't seen this at all lately.

I'm gonna assume it will never air again, given that most people have widescreen TVs now. Not me! I've decided I'm gonna hold on to my CRT TV as long as it lasts. It's 30 years old.

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9 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

I'm gonna assume it will never air again, given that most people have widescreen TVs now. Not me! I've decided I'm gonna hold on to my CRT TV as long as it lasts. It's 30 years old.

Exactly. Back then all shows were in standard definition, so when a film was shown letterboxed some people got a little crazy because the image was so shrunken on the smaller screen, with those dreaded black bars. That's why they had to make those instructional interstitials to try to convince the skeptics about the history of widescreen and the value of showing it, even on a small standard screen. I loved widescreen and was thrilled to see it on TV under any conditions. I transferred some rarer AMC broadcasts to disc when I got rid of my VHS tapes just in case they didn't show up again and I'm glad I did. I recently watched the widescreen version of Douglas Sirk's Sign of the Pagan, which is only available on Region 2 DVD. Unlike some other studios Universal must have been big on and early in preserving widescreen prints because a lot of what I saved from AMC was Universal.

AMC aside, a predecessor to TCM was TNT, with its clever graphics and thematic grouping of films. But, of course, there were commercials and many movies featured the advisory that they were edited for content and running time. I particularly enjoyed their precursor to TCM Underground; I forget what it was called, but they showed lots of off-beat films, such as the "Bad Movies We Love" series. Also, I remember that Turner went all-in for colorization, even "premiering" some of their latest on TNT, slapping that Turner logo on them. So there isn't exactly a through-line of purity in the Turner "brand". 

AMC definitely got the ball rolling and TCM ran with it. I don't really care whether TCM acknowledges AMC, but neither should they pretend it never existed. TCM got lucky with Robert Osborne, but both Bob Dorian and Nick Clooney were good, congenial hosts and I wonder if TCM would have gained the ground it did as quickly as it did without Robert.

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1 hour ago, DougieB said:

Exactly. Back then all shows were in standard definition, so when a film was shown letterboxed some people got a little crazy because the image was so shrunken on the smaller screen, with those dreaded black bars. That's why they had to make those instructional interstitials to try to convince the skeptics about the history of widescreen and the value of showing it, even on a small standard screen. I loved widescreen and was thrilled to see it on TV under any conditions. I transferred some rarer AMC broadcasts to disc when I got rid of my VHS tapes just in case they didn't show up again and I'm glad I did. I recently watched the widescreen version of Douglas Sirk's Sign of the Pagan, which is only available on Region 2 DVD. Unlike some other studios Universal must have been big on and early in preserving widescreen prints because a lot of what I saved from AMC was Universal.

AMC aside, a predecessor to TCM was TNT, with its clever graphics and thematic grouping of films. But, of course, there were commercials and many movies featured the advisory that they were edited for content and running time. I particularly enjoyed their precursor to TCM Underground; I forget what it was called, but they showed lots of off-beat films, such as the "Bad Movies We Love" series. Also, I remember that Turner went all-in for colorization, even "premiering" some of their latest on TNT, slapping that Turner logo on them. So there isn't exactly a through-line of purity in the Turner "brand". 

AMC definitely got the ball rolling and TCM ran with it. I don't really care whether TCM acknowledges AMC, but neither should they pretend it never existed. TCM got lucky with Robert Osborne, but both Bob Dorian and Nick Clooney were good, congenial hosts and I wonder if TCM would have gained the ground it did as quickly as it did without Robert.

Of the three hosts mentioned (Dorian, Clooney and Osborne) I would say Nick Clooney's my favorite. 

I really enjoyed his book The Movies That Changed Us: Reflections on the Screen.

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I have one more piece of information regarding on how influential THE Z  CHANNEL WAS from the WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE.

Because it was watched by so many people in L.A., including significant numbers of members of the film academy, Z Channel was very influential. It was considered responsible for helping Woody Allen's "Annie Hall" win Best Picture in 1977 and for bringing James Woods a nomination for his performance in Oliver Stone's 1986 "Salvador."

All I can say, there was never a film channel as the Z CHANNEL WAS; and there will never be again.  WhaT A SHAME! TCM doesn't come close.  TCM is a premium channel. We have to pay extra for it.  They do not acknowledge the diverse film history.   They should do better.  There is more to film history than MGM, Warner Brothers and RKO.

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:30 PM, TopBilled said:

Not only did TCM borrow the Star of the Month concept from AMC, it also borrowed the idea of selling a monthly newsmagazine to viewers. Plus, they copied the idea of having two white men as hosts. Something that took a long time to change, before women and non-white hosts were allowed to start introducing movies. But yeah, it's obvious that Turner just replicated AMC's format in almost every way. But as they years went on, they started adding in their own ideas.

Were you sure about this (strictly "white men"?)?

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Based on the comments I read, I would say largely white, yes, but yeah, okay, you got me, I can't crawl through the computer and actually see all the posters. It's an educated guess, I would say.

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What would be a cool invention would be some type of stretch screen TV that would conform to the aspect ratio of a film. Something that would always display the same amount of square inches so there would never be any black bars.  lol.

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I saw that Ted Turner salute promo, which inspired me to start this thread, again tonight, and it still doesn't sit quite right with me. TCM was clearly part of a movement that had already begun with AMC, and the promo indicates the movement began with TCM.

Ted Turner tells Ben Mankiewicz that "nobody cared about Bugs Bunny", which I found a little odd and actually untrue, since CBS ran a 90-minute Bugs Bunny/Road Runner show every Saturday morning of my entire childhood. I think they whittled it down to 60 minutes as I was approaching adulthood. Do people know what Ted is talking about? Did TCM used to show Bugs Bunny shorts in its early days? Even though they're owned by WB, TCM clearly doesn't have the rights to show them. I think they showed one Bugs cartoon and one Roadrunner cartoon on a night devoted to Chuck Jones, but I'm fairly sure that's the only time in the nearly 20 years I've been watching.

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4 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

Did TCM used to show Bugs Bunny shorts in its early days?

I don't know.

I didn't start regularly watching TV again until roughly 1999. I have a couple of gaps, the first between 1970 to 1977-78 then another from 1996-1998. Between 1978 and 1990 there was a period where we lived in the Northwest corner of Montana and got three broadcast channels one of which was CBC out of British Columbia, then got basic cable with no TCM until 1996. Didn't get cable again this time with TCM until roughly 1998.

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6 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

I saw that Ted Turner salute promo, which inspired me to start this thread, again tonight, and it still doesn't sit quite right with me. TCM was clearly part of a movement that had already begun with AMC, and the promo indicates the movement began with TCM.

Well if he had legal issues with AMC in the 90s, he obviously is not going to reference them or give them their due.

So it's a form of revisionist history. 

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17 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

Speaking of channels that have changed, I found this list on Letterboxd of films, mostly mainstays on TCM, that appeared on sister channel TNT in October 1988, the month that channel debuted.

Interesting. So Turner was already showing these movies six years before TCM. 

I wish this person would post a similar list for the first month of AMC programming!

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19 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

And also a mostly complete (but already massive) list of titles that appeared on either HBO or Cinemax over the years since the early 70s. [7051 films! And that's not even complete :blink:)

https://letterboxd.com/alec_novakow/list/films-shown-on-hbo-cinemax/

Hmm.  You can't get to the production year unless you click through on each link.  So over 7000 hits on their server using a script.  I would expect my IP to get banned before I could actually do anything useful with that in a convenient way.   :P   Is that site serving up ads or something?

P.S, I might try anyhow, just to get an idea of the differential in content.

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If you're using a computer with a mouse, you can just rest the mouse on each pic, and it shows what year the movie was released.

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2 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

If you're using a computer with a mouse, you can just rest the mouse on each pic, and it shows what year the movie was released.

Sorry, that's not going to be of much use.

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Okay, actually that did help after all.  I just had to use an actual browser to open and download the files.  A little more comes in that way but I won't bore you with particulars.

I won't have a chance to get to the actual data part of this right away, but for now I have what I need.  7051 data points.  http://moviecollectoroh.com/pics_to_hotlink_on_TCM/forum-twisted.gif

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6 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

Interesting. So Turner was already showing these movies six years before TCM. 

I wish this person would post a similar list for the first month of AMC programming!

Yes. Only differences were that TNT had commercials, and there were occasional cases of colorization (clasps at neck). The one abnormality in the list was an obscure 1980 film from MGM called Why Would I Lie. For some reason or another, that 1980 film with Treat Williams, Lisa Eichhorn, and Kathrine Helmond has not aired on TCM since late 1994, despite being part of the Turner library. No VHS or DVD either.

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