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Democrats Begin Impeachment of Trump

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2 hours ago, jakeem said:

The GOP was Corrupt to the Core before trump showed up.

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I caught a clip of Jim Jordan's "performance" at the hearings.  As former Sen. McCaskill stated he was mean to people who are far superior to him in service to America, in intelligence, in honesty and every other attribute that Americans strive for.

I am sure his history as a college wrestler and assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State University has some influence on this.

Most interesting article I found on it was the one below from Washington Post re: his refusal to wear a coat except when he is around Trump or similar situations.  I served on a small town city council where the men never wore coats and ties except for the swearing in and formal picture for the wall.  I wore a coat and tie to all meetings to show my respect for the business in which we were involved.  Within three months the other four men on the council were wearing coats and ties.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/11/13/love-dignity-civility-jim-jordan-put-jacket/

 

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Trump allies today: anyone with an education and foreign policy expertise is stupid and elitist.
 
Ignore them.
 
That’s it. That’s their argument today.
7:23 AM · Nov 14, 2019
 
:rolleyes:
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BREAKING (AP) — AP source:
 
2nd US embassy official overheard President Trump’s call with Sondland about need for Ukraine investigations.
=================================
 
 
Replying to
 
As did every goddamned spy in Eastern Europe,
considering it was on a freaking CELL PHONE
 
and he was talking loud enough for BYSTANDERS to hear on the other end.
<_<
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Everywhere Marie Yovanovitch went turned bad. She started off in Somalia, how did that go? Then fast forward to Ukraine, where the new Ukrainian President spoke unfavorably about her in my second phone call with him. It is a U.S. President’s absolute right to appoint ambassadors.........
===========================
 
Schiff: "We saw today witness intimidation in real time by the President of the United States."
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18 USC 1512 (b)Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person,
 
or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to
 
-(1)influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding
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Live updates from Yovanovitch's testimony

The former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine is giving public testimony in the House's impeachment inquiry.

 

  • Trump accused of witness intimidation in real time. Chairman Schiff said the impeachment investigators will take that "very seriously."
  • Yovanovitch calls Trump's attacks "very intimidating." The former ambassador also said she felt threatened by Trump's statement about her to the Ukrainian president.
  • Yovanovitch says Trump administration kneecapped her diplomatic efforts. "The State Department is being hollowed out from within," she said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/live-blog/impeachment-hearings-live-updates-yovanovitch-s-testimony-n1082501/ncrd1083061#liveBlogHeader

 

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23 hours ago, mr6666 said:
 
Trump allies today: anyone with an education and foreign policy expertise is stupid and elitist.
 
Ignore them.
 
That’s it. That’s their argument today.
7:23 AM · Nov 14, 2019
 
:rolleyes:

After three public witnesses the Republicans still have not questioned any of them about the facts.

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BREAKING: David Holmes testimony: "I heard President Trump ask, so he's gonna do the investigation?' Ambassador Sondland replied that 'he's gonna do it,' adding that
 
President Zelensky will do 'anything you ask him to.'"
 
"Sondland agreed that the President did not 'give a **** about Ukraine'...
 
Sondland stated the President only cares about 'big stuff'...
[and added] that he meant 'big stuff' that benefits the President,
like the 'Biden investigation' that Mr. Giuliani was pushing."
 
===================================
 

Who is David Holmes? He's a career foreign service officer who entered service during the George W. Bush Administration.

And his testimony today, based on first hand knowledge, is very damning to

.
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9 minutes ago, mr6666 said:
 
 
BREAKING: David Holmes testimony: "I heard President Trump ask, so he's gonna do the investigation?' Ambassador Sondland replied that 'he's gonna do it,' adding that
 
President Zelensky will do 'anything you ask him to.'"
 
"Sondland agreed that the President did not 'give a **** about Ukraine'...
 
Sondland stated the President only cares about 'big stuff'...
[and added] that he meant 'big stuff' that benefits the President,
like the 'Biden investigation' that Mr. Giuliani was pushing."
 
===================================
 

Who is David Holmes? He's a career foreign service officer who entered service during the George W. Bush Administration.

And his testimony today, based on first hand knowledge, is very damning to

.

READ: State Department aide David Holmes' opening statement

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/david-holmes-testimony/index.html

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Trump is clearly his own worst enemy.   I open today's Business section of the L.A. Times;  The main story is CA's jobless rate falling to a new low, 3.9%, (lowest since 1979) and payroll continues to grow in the state's longest expansion on record.      (I assume most other states are having similar results).

Trump appear to have escaped the Mueller inquiry:  There just wasn't enough there to move Pelosi and the Dem party to impeachment,  as well as a majority of American voters.     Therefore Trump's strategy of running on the economy and how he has advanced the lives of people-of-color more than the person-of-color President would have statistical backing.   (how much of an impact Trump admin and GOP policies have had is very questionable,  but it would be very difficult for Dems to make that case since most Americans just follow the "under the President's watch" POV).

 BUT what does Trump do: He pulls this Ukraine stunt AND he doesn't do it half as sneaky as what happened with Russia.   I.e. way too many non-loyal-too-all-thing-Trump players involved.    It appears Trump really believes his own BS;  That the Mueller report exonerated him and therefore what he and a few cronies were doing with Ukraine is A-OK.  

OR is Trump just really that stupid????

 

 

 

   

 

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2 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Trump is clearly his own worst enemy.   I open today's Business section of the L.A. Times;  The main story is CA's jobless rate falling to a new low, 3.9%, (lowest since 1979) and payroll continues to grow in the state's longest expansion on record.      (I assume most other states are having similar results).

Trump appear to have escaped the Mueller inquiry:  There just wasn't enough there to move Pelosi and the Dem party to impeachment,  as well as a majority of American voters.     Therefore Trump's strategy of running on the economy and how he has advanced the lives of people-of-color more than the person-of-color President would have statistical backing.   (how much of an impact Trump admin and GOP policies have had is very questionable,  but it would be very difficult for Dems to make that case since most Americans just follow the "under the President's watch" POV).

 BUT what does Trump do: He pulls this Ukraine stunt AND he doesn't do it half as sneaky as what happened with Russia.   I.e. way too many non-loyal-too-all-thing-Trump players involved.    It appears Trump really believes his own BS;  That the Mueller report exonerated him and therefore what he and a few cronies were doing with Ukraine is A-OK.  

OR is Trump just really that stupid????

 

It is a classic case of a thief walking into a busy department store and stealing a canoe.  He then gets caught when he goes back for the oars.

Re, the Mueller inquiry: I think it is a bit more complicated than that.  There was tons of stuff implicating Trump in impeachable offences but Mueller didn't go the distance and make that recommendation.  And Trump wore people down over the many months it took to reach a conclusion.  So much so that people hardly cared anymore.  Bill Barr saved his fanny as well.

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4 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

Re, the Mueller inquiry: I think it is a bit more complicated than that.  There was tons of stuff implicating Trump in impeachable offences but Mueller didn't go the distance and make that recommendation.  And Trump wore people down over the many months it took to reach a conclusion.  So much so that people hardly cared anymore.  Bill Barr saved his fanny as well.

Of course the Mueller inquiry was "a bit more complicated than that" ,  but I don't see how that changes what I said related to what Pelosi's and other Dem party leaders believed the majority of Americans believed: as you say "people hardly cared anymore".      

They care now with Ukraine-gate so now the Dems do have enough support to move ahead.    But related to the other discussion we are having;  Will the Dems have enough evidence and public support to deal with the US Senate NOT convicting Trump or will Dems face a similar fate the GOP did with their failed attempt to remove Bill Clinton?

  

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2 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Of course the Mueller inquiry was "a bit more complicated than that" ,  but I don't see how that changes what I said related to what Pelosi's and other Dem party leaders believed the majority of Americans believed: as you say "people hardly cared anymore".      

They care now with Ukraine-gate so now the Dems do have enough support to move ahead.    But related to the other discussion we are having;  Will the Dems have enough evidence and public support to deal with the US Senate NOT convicting Trump or will Dems face a similar fate the GOP did with their failed attempt to remove Bill Clinton?

  

No idea on point two.  But as the evidence is showing, the democrats would be derelict in their duties not to do an impeachment investigation in the House which will probably lead to his impeachment but not conviction.

On point one.  The Russia investigation played out too long and Trump had more opportunities to take shots at it for months and months.  People were as tired of him as they were the investigation.  He wears one down.  But that doesn't erase the damining facts of that investigation.

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2 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

No idea on point two.  But as the evidence is showing, the democrats would be derelict in their duties not to do an impeachment investigation in the House which will probably lead to his impeachment but not conviction.

Yea,  the impeachment investigation have to move forward to ensure as much evidence as possible is made available to the American public prior to the 2020 elections.   That is what Pelosi is doing and she is doing a great job in this regard.

But if little to no GOP House members vote for impeachment,   I wonder if Pelosi can undo actual impeachment and thus avoid a trial, and the GOP majority Senate from NOT convicting Trump. 

While Trump and his cronies will say that this supports the Trump idea of a witch hunt,    that might be better than Trump saying it was a witch hunt AND,,,see,,, I was found NOT guilty (thus leading credence to little-mined Americans that it was just all an unfounded  Dem witch hunt ). 

 

 

 

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TIM MORRISON testimony: On or about July 15, Deputy National Security Advisor Charlie Kupperman stated that
 
"the chief of staff's office had informed OMB that
 
it was the President's direction to HOLD the assistance.".........
 
& After listening to the Trump-Zelensky call, TIM MORRISON advised NSC lawyers John Eisenberg and Michael Ellis to review and restrict access:
 
"Because I was concerned about whether or not they would agree that it would be damaging ... if the call mem-con or its contents leaked."
 
<_<
 
 
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Trump administration knew in May

Zelensky felt pressured to investigate Bidens

....According to Fiona Hill, Hochstein told her on May 22 that the Ukrainians were concerned about the pressure that then President-elect Zelensky was already facing from Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and his associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.

 
She also testified that in mid-May she mentioned these concerns to her boss, then-national security adviser John Bolton, as well as to Bill Taylor, the former Ukraine ambassador who in June became the top US diplomat in Ukraine as head of mission in Kiev..........
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House investigating whether Trump lied to Mueller -

 

......"Did the President lie? Was the President not truthful in his responses to the Mueller investigation?" House general counsel Douglas Letter told the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit about why the House now needs access to grand jury material Mueller collected in his investigation.

House willing to delay getting Trump tax documents
 
The House's arguments Monday draw new focus to whether Trump lied to Mueller, following public revelations at Roger Stone's trial this month........
 
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On 11/14/2019 at 10:42 AM, TheCid said:

I caught a clip of Jim Jordan's "performance" at the hearings.  As former Sen. McCaskill stated he was mean to people who are far superior to him in service to America, in intelligence, in honesty and every other attribute that Americans strive for.

I am sure his history as a college wrestler and assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State University has some influence on this.

Most interesting article I found on it was the one below from Washington Post re: his refusal to wear a coat except when he is around Trump or similar situations.  I served on a small town city council where the men never wore coats and ties except for the swearing in and formal picture for the wall.  I wore a coat and tie to all meetings to show my respect for the business in which we were involved.  Within three months the other four men on the council were wearing coats and ties.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/11/13/love-dignity-civility-jim-jordan-put-jacket/

 

then well-meaning Vietnam war protesters shoulda had enough basic decency to never have desecrated the flag...just out of respect, right?

:D

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·
51m
 
WATCH: Lt. Col. Vindman explains why his father didn't need to "worry" about testifying before the impeachment inquiry:
"This is America. This is the country I've served and defended, that all of my brothers have served. And here, right matters."
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