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Democrats Begin Impeachment of Trump

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4 hours ago, hamradio said:

Apparently Trump believed Snowden.

World leaders should feel comfortable with this. :blink:

Most if not all world leaders understand that any calls they make are going to be monitored, just as their own security/intelligence agencies will also be monitoring them. Government agencies can listen in to calls made by government agencies (including the White House), as that's part of their job, just as your employer can track any calls you make on the business line or sites you visit on the office computer. Your boss doesn't need a warrant. 

As for the whistleblower leaking to the press, the press didn't get wind of the story until after the whistleblower reported the incident to the proper agency heads, and then saw that the acting Intelligence Director tried to bury the report, even after the inspector general's office marked it as urgent and directed that it should be sent to the proper committee leaders.

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21 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The whistleblower 'position' was created by Congress;  this is necessary when there are concerns that the 'proper authorities' are involved in the potential impropriety.     E.g.  Attorney General is a 'proper authority' but since the President mentioned him,  by name,  in the potential impropriety,   there was a need for a whisleblower to make their report to the head of the intelligence agency.

Then he / she should had done just that!

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2 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

Most if not all world leaders understand that any calls they make are going to be monitored, just as their own security/intelligence agencies will also be monitoring them. Government agencies can listen in to calls made by government agencies (including the White House), as that's part of their job, just as your employer can track any calls you make on the business line or sites you visit on the office computer. Your boss doesn't need a warrant. 

As for the whistleblower leaking to the press, the press didn't get wind of the story until after the whistleblower reported the incident to the property agency heads, and then saw that the acting Intelligence Director tried to bury the report, even after the inspector general's office marked it as urgent and directed that it should be sent to the proper committee leaders.

 

Thank God I don't work for a paranoid employer.

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2 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Then he / she should had done just that!  

We agree here;   I'm NOT interested in the cover-up \ obstruction angle some Dems are applying to this.   

To me the text of the phone call,  as supplied by the White House,  is enough.

 

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18 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Such information should be relayed to the proper authorities NOT some whistleblower whom then leak it to the media.  If someone's job is to monitor sensitive calls to any world leader, then that's new one on me. Shouldn't this be considered a national security issue? :o

The method of how this was done is what's disturbing, I thought private presidentlal conversations were just that and any eavesdropping or wiretap had to be issued by some legal order.  This I have no issues with!  Yes if a governmental entity had the legislative / courts permission to gather information, then any illegal activity is discovered, Trumps impeachment is perfectly fine with me. Trump is not above the law.

 

It was brought before Congress already but the testimony of the whistleblower is the difficult part as he wants to keep his anonymity. 

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What bothers me about any impending impeachment----

An impeachment is NO guarantee of removal from office.

The proceedings will draw the attention of the democrats in congress away from the work they were elected to do, and the same goes for the republicans in congress.  Add to that a president so obsessed with nosediving into his phone while twiddling his thumbs for his relentless Twitter feeds while the middle class and the poor circle the drain doesn't really help matters. 

Sepiatone

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17 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

What bothers me about any impending impeachment----

An impeachment is NO guarantee of removal from office.

The proceedings will draw the attention of the democrats in congress away from the work they were elected to do, and the same goes for the republicans in congress.  Add to that a president so obsessed with nosediving into his phone while twiddling his thumbs for his relentless Twitter feeds while the middle class and the poor circle the drain doesn't really help matters. 

Sepiatone

Sep--As you already know there are no guarantees in life at all.

And sometimes there comes a time in life when you just have to do what you have to do, whether you like it or not or whether you want to or not.

But that's only for people who live by a certain morality, ethics or standard of character.

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1 hour ago, hamradio said:

 

Then he / she should had done just that!

He / she did just that.  The whistleblower report was given to the inspector general of his /her Department, as Director of National Intelligence testified to Congress.  The whistleblower regulations were followed.

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56 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

What bothers me about any impending impeachment----

An impeachment is NO guarantee of removal from office.

The proceedings will draw the attention of the democrats in congress away from the work they were elected to do, and the same goes for the republicans in congress.  Add to that a president so obsessed with nosediving into his phone while twiddling his thumbs for his relentless Twitter feeds while the middle class and the poor circle the drain doesn't really help matters. 

Sepiatone

There is no work for the existing House Dem to do since McConnell is highly unlikely to move forward with anything.

Dems have passed many go-nowhere bills but again, these are going nowhere due to McConnell.

So everyone has time for these hearings! 

 

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4 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

 

Jim Jordan, is this the same Jim Jordan who was the Ohio State University pedophile enabler?

I guess that makes him a good spokesperson for trump.

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4 hours ago, hamradio said:

Such information should be relayed to the proper authorities NOT some whistleblower whom then leak it to the media.  If someone's job is to monitor sensitive calls to any world leader, then that's new one on me. Shouldn't this be considered a national security issue? :o

The method of how this was done is what's disturbing, I thought private presidentlal conversations were just that and any eavesdropping or wiretap had to be issued by some legal order.  This I have no issues with!  Yes if a governmental entity had the legislative / courts permission to gather information, then any illegal activity is discovered, Trumps impeachment is perfectly fine with me. Trump is not above the law.

Already addressed, but I will throw my two cents worth in.  Many people are present or listening in legally and officially while the call is being made.  In many of these calls, those in attendance have cautioned Trump about what he is saying and advised him to do something differently.  Good luck with that.

Regardless, these are not "private" calls in the nature of just two people conversing.  Not sure, but was an interpreter present in White House?.  How many people were listening in on the Ukrainian end?

As has been cited, the whistleblower law does not require that the complainant actually be a witness to what happened.  How he/she comes by the information is IRRELEVANT to whether or not to report it.

"Yes if a governmental entity had the legislative / courts permission to gather information, then any illegal activity is discovered, Trumps impeachment is perfectly fine with me. Trump is not above the law."  You are absolutely correct and the US Congress has the permissions necessary to gather information to determine if illegal activities occurred.  Trump considers himself to be above the law, just as Nixon did.

Not sure how this will play out, but appears the GOPers are taking their cues from the Nixon defense.  And we know where that one ended up.  Of course, Congress had the smoking gun and the Republicans in US Senate were far more devoted to America and democracy than the ones there now.

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3 Democratic Chairmen Slam Pompeo

for 'Stonewalling' House Impeachment Inquiry

".....

"Secretary Pompeo was reportedly on the call when the President pressed Ukraine to smear his political opponent," wrote Rep. Eliot L. Engel, Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Rep. Adam B. Schiff, Chairman of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and Rep. Elijah E. Cummings, Chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Reform in a statement.

"If true, Secretary Pompeo is now a fact witness in the House impeachment inquiry," they three chairmen said, adding that

any effort on Pompeo's end to intimidate witnesses or prevent them from talking with Congress is illegal

and will constitute Obstruction of the house's inquiry.....

https://www.newsweek.com/house-chairmen-respond-pompeo-stonewalling-1462443?utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter

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Wilbur Ross is giving UK interviews towing the party line that Trump should be able to confront all of his whistleblowers directly and that everything is just based on hearsay.  He says he is not much of a conspiracy theorist but that this democrat inspired impeachment attempt should be looked into - not Trump, but his accusers.

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IMO the reason behind Trump and his allies push to have the whistleblower's identity revealed is because it is hampering his usual MO of employing a campaign of character assassination against his accuser(s).  He cannot do to this anonymous protected witness what he did to James Comey, Michael Cohen, the Mooch, Stormy Daniels, Dr. Ford, Mueller and his 19 angry democrats and a host of others.

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3 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Wilbur Ross is giving UK interviews towing the party line that Trump should be able to confront all of his whistleblowers directly and that everything is just based on hearsay.  He says he is not much of a conspiracy theorist but that this democrat inspired impeachment attempt should be looked into - not Trump, but his accusers.

Wilbur Ross is even more of a dotary  old fool than even Donald Trump.  He was probably present during these phone calls but asleep during said calls.

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5 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Wilbur Ross is giving UK interviews towing the party line that Trump should be able to confront all of his whistleblowers directly and that everything is just based on hearsay.  He says he is not much of a conspiracy theorist but that this democrat inspired impeachment attempt should be looked into - not Trump, but his accusers.

Trump is one of the few Presidents to not own a dog. Why should he, with all the lapdogs like Wilbur Ross working for him and jumping at his commands?

Mind you, Trump has shown that he can be a bit of a lapdog himself.

ea19a23add0a152cf62ef6dbd5e44d27.jpg

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21 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

There is no work for the existing House Dem to do since McConnell is highly unlikely to move forward with anything.

Dems have passed many go-nowhere bills but again, these are going nowhere due to McConnell.

So everyone has time for these hearings! 

 

Ever notice that Mitch also has a FACE like a turtle?  ;)  

I guess he's the hold up that's keeping HILLARY from being in JAIL, like Trump claimed he'd make happen.  ;)

Sepiatone

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19 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Ever notice that Mitch also has a FACE like a turtle?  ;)  

I guess he's the hold up that's keeping HILLARY from being in JAIL, like Trump claimed he'd make happen.  ;)

Sepiatone

Hey, turtles are cute!

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Adam Schiff: White House Stonewalling Will Be Considered Obstruction Of Justice

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who appeared with Schiff, called the impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump “a sad development"
 
.........Tuesday, Pompeo sent a letter to Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.) in which he argued House committee leaders’ request to depose five current and former State Department officials was an attempt to “intimidate” and “bully” them and that the timeline was inadequate. Pompeo confirmed Wednesday that he was on the president’s July 25 call with the Ukrainian president.

Any stonewalling by the administration, Schiff said, “would be considered further evidence of obstruction of justice.”

“They would be strengthening the case for obstruction if they behave that way,” he added......

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nancy-pelosi-trump-impeachment_n_5d94ba05e4b0ac3cddb1f2e0?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

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House Democrats leading an impeachment inquiry into President Trump
 
have called on five State Dept. officials to appear before their cmtes.,
 
thrusting several veteran diplomats into the middle of a partisan clash between Congress and the White House.
 

Who are the diplomats Congress wants to testify?

Two are career foreign service officers with stellar records, and a third is a seasoned diplomat who favored a tough line on Russia and support for Ukraine.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/impeachment-inquiry-who-are-diplomats-congress-wants-testify-n1061536

 

 

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let it go to a trial in the senate...

even if they can prove a high crime trump could still survive a vote and remain in power.

:D

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1 hour ago, fxreyman said:

Very interesting. And here I had thought actual US House of Representatives Impeachment hearings were underway. I guess not...

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/464140-ignore-the-hype-this-is-not-an-impeachment-inquiry

Of course the author of the above is a Fox contributor and a National Review contributing editor.  So, more politics, but from the other side.

Regardless, he does have something of a point.  There is NO impeachment inquiry because Pelosi has not created an impeachment inquiry committee as done in the past.  Therefore, the committees investigating the Trump administration do have subpoena powers, but they is subject to being contested in court.  That would delay the actual impeachment hearings for months.

Whereas an impeachment inquiry supposedly enables the impeachment inquiry committee subpoena power that cannot be contested in Federal courts, with possible exception of Supreme Court.  Not sure who would enforce it since only the DOJ under Barr has "law enforcement" personnel.

Bottom line, the House has NOT began impeachment of Trump.  They are still inquiring into the president and the administration under "oversight" procedures, which are weaker than actual impeachment procedures.

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