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Democrats Begin Impeachment of Trump

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Lindsay Graham wants the House to go ahead and officially begin an impeachment inquiry or vote on impeachment.  He noted 30+ Dems. voted to impeach Bill Clinton.

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1 hour ago, TheCid said:

Lindsay Graham wants the House to go ahead and officially begin an impeachment inquiry or vote on impeachment.  He noted 30+ Dems. voted to impeach Bill Clinton.

I wonder what Graham's strategy is for wanting the House to 'go ahead';   I don't think he is implying he would vote to conflict if the House voted to move forward with impeachment:  so I'm left to wonder.    E.g. does he think Pelosi couldn't get enough votes and thus the Dems would be embarrassed?     That sounds too risky and Graham is typically risk adverse.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, noah80 said:

melt.jpg

Trump is having a bad day....doesn't like impeachment

“If you can’t do the time don’t do the crime”

Words of wisdom Trump won’t acknowledge any time

“Trump if you can’t stand the heat 

Don’t give reasons to impeach!”

But he continues to extort, then to hide it starts the lyin’!

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20 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I wonder what Graham's strategy is for wanting the House to 'go ahead';   I don't think he is implying he would vote to conflict if the House voted to move forward with impeachment:  so I'm left to wonder.    E.g. does he think Pelosi couldn't get enough votes and thus the Dems would be embarrassed?     That sounds too risky and Graham is typically risk adverse.

 

 

I think he believes that it will cause so much opposition to impeachment at this time that it will help the GOPers in the 2020 elections at multiple levels.  He was one of the "prosecutors" in the Clinton trial and saw how that hurt the GOP.

Also, Graham knows the voters in S.C. and that supporting Trump fully is a winner for him.  It would also place the Dem Representative from Charleston area in a very bad position.  He still has not committed to impeachment.

And as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee he would have a lot of influence over the trial and lots and lots of time on TV to prove he is loyal to Trump.

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Apologize for posting this twice, but think it is worthy of being considered here as well.

If you support impeachment, read the article cited below.  Well worth your time. It explains why the current impeachment situation is vastly different from the Nixon scenario, John Dean's TV appearances to the contrary.  Goldwater led the GOP senators that convinced Nixon to resign.  Goldwater is the father of the current GOP conservative movement, although it has gone way, way off the rails since he started it.

One caveat is that in 1974, there was a Republican Party and Nixon was the Republican president.  Today we have the party/cult of Trump with virtual total control over the Republican Party.  The GOPers will stick with him as long as tax cuts, regulation elimination and judicial appointments continue.  In addition, they are afraid of offending their own base which is devoted to Trump.

There are a huge number of social media, broadcast and others who are devoted to Trump under any circumstances bombarding people 24/7.  Add in Fox News and he has a defensive network par excellance. 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/GOP-unlikely-to-reprise-role-it-played-in-Nixon-s-14494724.php

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

Apologize for posting this twice, but think it is worthy of being considered here as well.

If you support impeachment, read the article cited below.  Well worth your time. It explains why the current impeachment situation is vastly different from the Nixon scenario, John Dean's TV appearances to the contrary.  Goldwater led the GOP senators that convinced Nixon to resign.  Goldwater is the father of the current GOP conservative movement, although it has gone way, way off the rails since he started it.

One caveat is that in 1974, there was a Republican Party and Nixon was the Republican president.  Today we have the party/cult of Trump with virtual total control over the Republican Party.  The GOPers will stick with him as long as tax cuts, regulation elimination and judicial appointments continue.  In addition, they are afraid of offending their own base which is devoted to Trump.

There are a huge number of social media, broadcast and others who are devoted to Trump under any circumstances bombarding people 24/7.  Add in Fox News and he has a defensive network par excellance. 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/GOP-unlikely-to-reprise-role-it-played-in-Nixon-s-14494724.php

enough people finally got tired of being used and jerked around by an establishment GOP that most of the time accomplished nothing. I mean why not continue to support trump?

he's gotten us two conservative justices confirmed to the scotus.

they talk the talk while Donny walks the walk.

:D

 

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2 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

enough people finally got tired of being used and jerked around by an establishment GOP that most of the time accomplished nothing. I mean why not continue to support trump?

he's gotten us two conservative justices confirmed to the scotus.

they talk the talk while Donny walks the walk.

:D

 

Wow.  Wouldn't any Republican president have done the same?

Trump is an ****wit.  Face it.

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1 hour ago, Bogie56 said:

Wow.  Wouldn't any Republican president have done the same?

Trump is an ****wit.  Face it.

yes, but trump seems to understand that GOP voters are impressed with results and just not well-meaning pledges that lead to nowhere.

trump is getting it done which is a threat to the establishment brokers of both parties.

 

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19 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

yes, but trump seems to understand that GOP voters are impressed with results and just not well-meaning pledges that lead to nowhere.

trump is getting it done which is a threat to the establishment brokers of both parties.

 

Getting what done besides Moscow Mitch's judges and making the world sick?

The wall?

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2 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

yes, but trump seems to understand that GOP voters are impressed with results and just not well-meaning pledges that lead to nowhere.

trump is getting it done which is a threat to the establishment brokers of both parties.

 

trump hasn't impressed the Speaker of the House.

Some establishment Brokers you just can't get around.

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The disclosure of a second whistleblower threatens to undermine arguments made by Trump and his allies against the first whistleblower:
 
that the complaint was improperly filed because it was based on secondhand or thirdhand information.
 
<_<
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The Dems are making a mistake if they believe they can get a conviction on obstruction alone.

The fact Adam Schiff mentions obstruction related to Ukraine is a 'tell' that he doesn't believe there is a solid evidence of a crime in the Ukraine phone call as well as whatever Rudy did, based on Trump orders,  with Ukraine government officials related to the Bidens,  before said call.

If there isn't a crime by the President related to Ukraine,  OTHER THAN obstruction,  I don't think a majority of Americans are going to favor impeachment over a cover-up of nothing (no crime) which means GOP Senators would be given-a-pass to vote NOT to convict.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The Dems are making a mistake if they believe they can get a conviction on obstruction alone.

The fact Adam Schiff mentions obstruction related to Ukraine is a 'tell' that he doesn't believe there is a solid evidence of a crime in the Ukraine phone call as well as whatever Rudy did, based on Trump orders,  with Ukraine government officials related to the Bidens,  before said call.

If there isn't a crime by the President related to Ukraine,  OTHER THAN obstruction,  I don't think a majority of Americans are going to favor impeachment over a cover-up of nothing (no crime) which means GOP Senators would be given-a-pass to vote NOT to convict.

 

 

I don't think they think that at all.  But the WH keeps obstructing the investigation so that is just being added to the pile of criminal activity.

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Impeachment, trial, conviction and removal from office is far more complex than most people realize.  No matter what anyone says, it is also a political process.  One which has effects on elections.

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1 hour ago, Bogie56 said:

I don't think they think that at all.  But the WH keeps obstructing the investigation so that is just being added to the pile of criminal activity.

 
NEW: Ambassador Gordon Sondland has been told by State to not appear this morning before the House - so he won’t.
 
His attorney Robert Luskin said Tuesday morning he has no choice. “He is a sitting Ambassador and employee of State and is required to follow their direction”
 
7:12 AM · Oct 8, 2019
===================================
 

This is total BS.

Ambassador Sondland is a wealthy businessman who doesn't have to remain silent.

He could choose to testify, just like Watergate witnesses.

The American people can draw the reasonable inference that he is covering up corruption.

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I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify,
but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court,
where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public....
:rolleyes:
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President Trump and Secretary Pompeo continue to hide critical information from the American people.
 
Their move to block the testimony of Ambassador Sondland
 
is obstruction of Congress, plain and simple.
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White House says it won’t comply with inquiry

 

"......White House Counsel Pat Cipollone writes in a letter to House Democratic leaders that their inquiry has processed in a “manner that violates fundamental fairness and constitutionally mandated due process” and “lacks any legitimate constitutional foundation” or “pretense of fairness.”

The letter comes the same day Trump intensified his fight with Congress by blocking Gordon Sondland, the U.S. European Union ambassador, from testifying behind closed doors about the president’s dealings with Ukraine.

 

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff called Sondland’s no-show “additional strong evidence” of obstruction of Congress by Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that will only strengthen Democrats’ case..........

https://apnews.com/8f2a9d08c0f448fcac3609e8d886eeca?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&amp;utm_medium=AP&amp;utm_source=Twitter

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As Democrats Threaten (?) Subpoena for Sondland,

Calls Grow for Contempt Order If He Refuses to Comply

The president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, said Tuesday that members of the Trump administration do not intend to cooperate with the House's impeachment inquiry

 

....Critics urged Democrats to take decisive action by holding the ambassador in contempt of court if he disobeys the subpoena

—going beyond the symbolic votes taken after Attorney General William Barr, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, and former White House counsel Don McGahn refused to testify before Congress earlier this year.

"Just one time... just once, I would like to see breaking news of someone refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena

to be immediately followed by breaking news of their arrest for contempt,"......

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/10/08/democrats-threaten-subpoena-sondland-calls-grow-contempt-order-if-he-refuses-comply

:unsure:

 

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Congress can impeach for Obstruction.
 
But that still doesn't allow us to compel witnesses & documents for the trial.
 
We have the power of inherent contempt, which includes fines & jail. That would give us a chance at compliance.
 
I remain baffled why we still don't use it.
 
:blink:
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13 hours ago, mr6666 said:
 
 
Congress can impeach for Obstruction.
 
But that still doesn't allow us to compel witnesses & documents for the trial.
 
We have the power of inherent contempt, which includes fines & jail. That would give us a chance at compliance.
 
I remain baffled why we still don't use it.
 
:blink:

Who is going to enforce it?  The House sergeant-at-arms?  Neither the capitol police nor DOJ is going to.

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17 minutes ago, TheCid said:

Who is going to enforce it?  The House sergeant-at-arms?  Neither the capitol police nor DOJ is going to.

How did all those Nixon people end up in prison?  Including the Attorney General?

How was it possible then and not now?  Does enforcement of the law come down to politics as well.  

A sincere query.

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