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Even if you already hate him, or don't, what did Woody Allen do so wrong?

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7 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

This incorrect piece of information has been repeated hundreds of times. Soon-Yi was NOT Woody's stepdaugheter, as she was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow and Andre Previn, and Mia and Woody never married. Both Woody and Soon-Yi have said they barely knew each other until shortly before they became romantic, and Soon-Yi has said she never considered Woody any kind of father figure. 

If you read my entire post, you will see I make the point of Soon-Yi being an adult at the beginning of the affair and of Woody and Mia never actually being married. However, Woody and Mia were together in every other sense of the word for 12 years. Soon-Yi was ten when Woody and Mia began their relationship. Tell me, if you were in a relationship with somebody for 12 years, had a child together (although Mia now says Ronan was Frank Sinatra's child the dates just don't jive), and started a business together (Woody and Mia's films were practically a cottage industry), would you think it appropriate to start another affair with one of the actual children of that person, when that person came of age? I think most people would agree with me that this is just plain gross.

This reminds me of the words of Frank Drebin (Leslie Nielsen) in the second Naked Gun film: "I will tolerate anything but intolerance".

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I wasn't actually referring to your post, but I also noted the whole thing was weird. Seriously, I am not trying to defend the guy. I'm just saying I've seen a lot of people say things that were factually inaccurate about him over the years.

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26 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

If you read my entire post, you will see I make the point of Soon-Yi being an adult at the beginning of the affair and of Woody and Mia never actually being married. However, Woody and Mia were together in every other sense of the word for 12 years. Soon-Yi was ten when Woody and Mia began their relationship. Tell me, if you were in a relationship with somebody for 12 years, had a child together (although Mia now says Ronan was Frank Sinatra's child the dates just don't jive), and started a business together (Woody and Mia's films were practically a cottage industry), would you think it appropriate to start another affair with one of the actual children of that person, when that person came of age? I think most people would agree with me that this is just plain gross.

This reminds me of the words of Frank Drebin (Leslie Nielsen) in the second Naked Gun film: "I will tolerate anything but intolerance".

That some people would doesn't necessarily make it wrong.  Or illegal.  Wasn't long before that when "most" people were saying they thought interracial relationships were "gross".  But then too, your dislike of Allen's movies based on your feelings about his relationship with Soon-Yi is your business and you have every right to feel that way.  Nobody else has any business telling you how to think or feel about it than you have in telling them what to think or feel. After all, we don't live in Oceania. ;) ( ORWELL'S Oceania that is.)

Sepiatone

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2 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

This is also erroneous. People just throw out these numbers. By all accounts I've ever read, Woody and Soon-Yi began a romantic relationship when he was 56 and she was 22.

I'm not saying their relationship isn't WEIRD, but I've heard dozens of different people get the nature of their familial relationship (there was none) and her age at the time dramatically wrong, because a snippet of something they heard somewhere one time and automatically assuming it to be true without looking into it.

And on this same board everyone thinks Bogart and Bacall was just fine.

Lighten up its playing into the game plans to rake this crap up. You don't hear anybody mentioning the 24 year diff between Twump and Melania. 

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1 hour ago, AndreaDoria said:

She sounds credible to me.  Now, his new movie starring Jude Law is about a man who has an affair with a fifteen year-old.  Which sort of seems like Allen thumbing his nose at his critics and believing his fans will forgive anything.

Could sound as if she wants a piece of the of pie too.

And the film sounds like the Vladimir Nabokov novel plot that was made into the eponymous film Lolita (1962).

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2 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

That some people would doesn't necessarily make it wrong.  Or illegal.  Wasn't long before that when "most" people were saying they thought interracial relationships were "gross".  But then too, your dislike of Allen's movies based on your feelings about his relationship with Soon-Yi is your business and you have every right to feel that way.  Nobody else has any business telling you how to think or feel about it than you have in telling them what to think or feel. After all, we don't live in Oceania. ;) ( ORWELL'S Oceania that is.) 

Sepiatone

To equate objection to interracial relationships with objection to Woody's predatory relationship with his pseudo-wife's daughter that he knew from childhood is just plain silly. Are you saying that someone dumping their partner for their partner's child, when that child comes of age, is someday going to be considered great social progress??  That Woody will someday be lauded as someone on the frontier of  a progressive movement? I am flabbergasted.

I actually like some of Woody's films - although I agree the themes get repetitive at times. Zelig and Crimes and Misdemeanors are my favorites. "What's the guy so upset about? You'd think nobody was ever compared to Mussolini before." is one of my all time favorite lines.

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11 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

That some people would doesn't necessarily make it wrong.  Or illegal.  Wasn't long before that when "most" people were saying they thought interracial relationships were "gross".  But then too, your dislike of Allen's movies based on your feelings about his relationship with Soon-Yi is your business and you have every right to feel that way.  Nobody else has any business telling you how to think or feel about it than you have in telling them what to think or feel. After all, we don't live in Oceania. ;) ( ORWELL'S Oceania that is.)

Sepiatone

United States  

Age of consent by state (and remember life spans were shorter in 1880)

Year ---- 1880/1920/2007

         
Alabama    10    16    16
Alaska    -    16    16
Arizona    12    18    18
Arkansas    10    16    16
California    10    18    18
Colorado    10    18    15
Connecticut    10    16    16
District of Columbia    12    16    16
Delaware    7    16    16
Florida    10    18    18
Georgia    10    14    16
Hawaii    -    -    16
Idaho    10    18    18
Illinois    10    16    17
Indiana    12    16    16
Iowa    10    16    16
Kansas    10    18    16
Kentucky    12    16    16
Louisiana    12    18    17
Maine    10    16    16
Maryland    10    16    16
Massachusetts    10    16    16
Michigan    10    16    16
Minnesota    10    18    16
Mississippi    10    18    16
Missouri    12    18    17
Montana    10    18    16
Nebraska    10    18    17
Nevada    12    18    16
New Hampshire    10    16    16
New Jersey    10    16    16
New Mexico    10    16    17
New York    10    18    17
North Carolina    10    16    16
North Dakota    10    18    18
Ohio    10    16    16
Oklahoma    -    -    16
Oregon    10    16    18
Pennsylvania    10    16    16
Rhode Island    10    16    16
South Carolina    10    16    16
South Dakota    10    18    16
Tennessee    10    18    18
Texas    10    18    17
Utah    10    18    16
Vermont    10    16    16
Virginia    12    16    18
Washington    12    18    16
West Virginia    12    16    16
Wisconsin    10    16    18
Wyoming    10    16    16

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8 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

This is one of Woody and Soon-Yi's adopted daughters, and here's a whole article about how people try to use this photo and others under false pretenses and with no context to advance their own theories about Woody:

https://medium.com/@levine2001/the-photographic-lie-that-casual-racists-most-often-use-to-try-and-disparage-woody-allen-9c8c3d2b41d0

That's for that info, but that's how the Google images, other websites ALWAYS had it labeled, in other words I never posted it under false pretenses.  Why did it took Justin Levine or anyone else took years to correct the photos?

Google now comes up with Levine's correction.

I deleted the post.

 

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I can't answer that. I probably shouldn't venture into personal opinion, but clearly the face of that girl is not Soon-Yi's face. I think a lot of white people just thought it was because it was an Asian face, the old "they all look alike to me" bit.

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CALVIN:

I never stated anything of the sort.  My equating Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi with interracial relationships was to address the feelings of people who perceive a grossness in the whole thing.  And perhaps too, to point out the folly of your presuming to "speak" for "most people" because you find something objectionable  about the whole thing.  And as(from any info I can find) Previn and Allen's sexual relationship didn't notably begin until she was over 18, it hardly makes the relationship "predatory". 

Sepiatone

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Even Jay Leno done a skit showing Woody and Soon-Yi on their honeymoon, the actress portrayed was around 12. 

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3 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Even Jay Leno done a skit showing Woody and Soon-Yi on their honeymoon, the actress portrayed was around 12. 

He could of done the same thing with Bogart and Bacall...

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15 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

I never stated anything of the sort.  My equating Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi with interracial relationships was to address the feelings of people who perceive a grossness in the whole thing.  And perhaps too, to point out the folly of your presuming to "speak" for "most people" because you find something objectionable  about the whole thing.  And as(from any info I can find) Previn and Allen's sexual relationship didn't notably begin until she was over 18, it hardly makes the relationship "predatory". 

Sepiatone

If I have to explain why such behavior is more than objectionable but wrong, I give up. It is like describing the color orange to a person born blind. It is beyond me. So what is to keep a brother and sister from marrying then? Maybe you would say "because of the inbreeding factor if there were children". But suppose the woman has had a hysterectomy and therefore cannot bear children? Do you think I am a prude for thinking such a thing is just plain wrong because it destroys the proper boundaries between relatives? Because, otherwise, what would be your objection?

If Soon-Yi was just a random woman who lived down the hall with the exact same age difference between herself and Woody, then my only objection would be that Woody was having an affair behind Mia's back. But from what Mia said she was never really done with Frank Sinatra, so they both cheated on each other.

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21 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

United States  

Age of consent by state (and remember life spans were shorter in 1880)

Year ---- 1880/1920/2007

         
Alabama    10    16    16
Alaska    -    16    16
Arizona    12    18    18
Arkansas    10    16    16
California    10    18    18
Colorado    10    18    15
Connecticut    10    16    16
District of Columbia    12    16    16
Delaware    7    16    16
Florida    10    18    18
Georgia    10    14    16
Hawaii    -    -    16
Idaho    10    18    18
Illinois    10    16    17
Indiana    12    16    16
Iowa    10    16    16
Kansas    10    18    16
Kentucky    12    16    16
Louisiana    12    18    17
Maine    10    16    16
Maryland    10    16    16
Massachusetts    10    16    16
Michigan    10    16    16
Minnesota    10    18    16
Mississippi    10    18    16
Missouri    12    18    17
Montana    10    18    16
Nebraska    10    18    17
Nevada    12    18    16
New Hampshire    10    16    16
New Jersey    10    16    16
New Mexico    10    16    17
New York    10    18    17
North Carolina    10    16    16
North Dakota    10    18    18
Ohio    10    16    16
Oklahoma    -    -    16
Oregon    10    16    18
Pennsylvania    10    16    16
Rhode Island    10    16    16
South Carolina    10    16    16
South Dakota    10    18    16
Tennessee    10    18    18
Texas    10    18    17
Utah    10    18    16
Vermont    10    16    16
Virginia    12    16    18
Washington    12    18    16
West Virginia    12    16    16
Wisconsin    10    16    18
Wyoming    10    16    16

Are you saying there was no minimum age in OK at one time? This would make sense. There was a girl in my freshman high school class who went to Oklahoma to get married when she was 15. I was living in Texas at the time.

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13 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

United States  

Age of consent by state (and remember life spans were shorter in 1880)

Year ---- 1880/1920/2007

         Michigan    10    16    16

 

If this is for age of consent for marriage, then the info is a bit inaccurate.  My Mother and biodad married in 1943, when she was 17, and she required her Mother's( my Grandma's) signed consent to get the license. 

Funny aside:

All three of them have the same birthdate( June 13) Grandma's in 1907, Biodad's, 1924 and Mom, 1926.  The Detroit city clerk almost threw them out of the office thinking they were trying to pull some kind of prank!  :D 

Sepiatone

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13 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Even Jay Leno done a skit showing Woody and Soon-Yi on their honeymoon, the actress portrayed was around 12. 

So what? The truth is Soon-Yi wasn't 12 or underage. She was already in college and in her 20's when the affair began according to what Soon-Yi has said. Old enough to make her own decisions and old enough to be consensual.

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38 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

United States  

Age of consent by state (and remember life spans were shorter in 1880)

Year ---- 1880/1920/2007

         
Alabama    10    16    16
Alaska    -    16    16
Arizona    12    18    18
Arkansas    10    16    16
California    10    18    18
Colorado    10    18    15
Connecticut    10    16    16
District of Columbia    12    16    16
Delaware    7    16    16
Florida    10    18    18
Georgia    10    14    16
Hawaii    -    -    16
Idaho    10    18    18
Illinois    10    16    17
Indiana    12    16    16
Iowa    10    16    16
Kansas    10    18    16
Kentucky    12    16    16
Louisiana    12    18    17
Maine    10    16    16
Maryland    10    16    16
Massachusetts    10    16    16
Michigan    10    16    16
Minnesota    10    18    16
Mississippi    10    18    16
Missouri    12    18    17
Montana    10    18    16
Nebraska    10    18    17
Nevada    12    18    16
New Hampshire    10    16    16
New Jersey    10    16    16
New Mexico    10    16    17
New York    10    18    17
North Carolina    10    16    16
North Dakota    10    18    18
Ohio    10    16    16
Oklahoma    -    -    16
Oregon    10    16    18
Pennsylvania    10    16    16
Rhode Island    10    16    16
South Carolina    10    16    16
South Dakota    10    18    16
Tennessee    10    18    18
Texas    10    18    17
Utah    10    18    16
Vermont    10    16    16
Virginia    12    16    18
Washington    12    18    16
West Virginia    12    16    16
Wisconsin    10    16    18
Wyoming    10    16    16

Girls a few decades ago could had married under the age of consent with the parents permission. Loretta Lynn was 15.

A couple of girls in my area married around age 12 - 13 during the 1970's.

 

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin!

jerry-lee-lewis-myra-gale-brown.jpg

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Calvin sounds as if he's one of those who thought if gay marriage became legal it would lead to men wanting to marry livestock or pets. I said NOTHING on the order of approving incestial sexual relationships.  Where Calvin makes that connection only displays the state of health of his mind, not mine. 

Sepiatone

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6 minutes ago, lavenderblue19 said:

So what? The truth is Soon-Yi wasn't 12 or underage. She was already in college and in her 20's when the affair began according to what Soon-Yi has said. Old enough to make her own decisions and old enough to be consensual.

Jay was joking about the age difference, not she actually married at 12.

 

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2 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Calvin sounds as if he's one of those who thought if gay marriage became legal it would lead to men wanting to marry livestock or pets. I said NOTHING on the order of approving incestial sexual relationships.  Where Calvin makes that connection only displays the state of health of his mind, not mine.  

Sepiatone

Of course! There can be no other explanation for me holding moral objections other than that I am a bigot! I was glad to see gay people get the right to marry. In the words of Jack McCoy of Law & Order - " Let 'em marry. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us?" :) Actually I am a woman. Calvin is a long dead but beloved Birman cat (1991-2005, RIP big boy). But you can call me Calvin.

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Just now, hamradio said:

Jay was joking about the age difference, not she actually married at 12.

 

Obviously he was joking, exaggerating the age difference for the sake of making a joke and it wasn't funny, obviously you think it was. I don't. You wrote that post, what was the point of that?

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4 minutes ago, lavenderblue19 said:

Obviously he was joking, exaggerating the age difference for the sake of making a joke and it wasn't funny, obviously you think it was. I don't. You wrote that post, what was the point of that?

Apparently so did many in the audience thought it was funny, that wasn't exactly booing  I heard through the TV speaker. 

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11 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

In the words of Jack McCoy of Law & Order - " Let 'em marry. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us?"

The writers stole it from Kinky Friedman I believe.

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Just now, cigarjoe said:

The writers stole it from Kinky Friedman I believe.

Could be. I had to google it to get the exact quote, but I remembered the line and the episode.

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