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Even if you already hate him, or don't, what did Woody Allen do so wrong?


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Let's not forget there was a nearly 30-year age gap between Mia Farrow and Frank Sinatra.

I really have no stake in this matter insofar as how I determine whether to watch films with either Allen or Farrow's involvement.  Like speedracer5, I prefer to leave someone's personal life out of the equation when judging their artistic work.  To draw a parallel to a case closer to what Woody Allen has been accused of, Gloria Grahame did in fact marry her former stepson.  Her fourth husband was Tony Ray, son of Nicholas Ray whom she divorced a mere 8 years earlier.  None of us will probably ever know what truly happened in the Allen-Farrow case.  Like LawrenceA, I do believe that Dylan Farrow believes she was a victim of sexual assault, and I genuinely feel sorry for her.  If it really happened, that's awful.  If her mother coached her, that's also awful.  She is a victim of someone, perhaps even of both parties to some degree.  I have no desire to boycott either Farrow or Allen's work, but the beauty of it all is that it's our individual prerogative to do so if we choose.

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20 hours ago, spence said:

Andrea, think that was the latest allegation, but given Mia's vengeful temper since 1992/93 one never knows  as I write she even went after some of *SINATRA's estate

Really?! Gee, I wonder why?

Wait, could it MAYBE be because....

maxresdefault.jpg

(...yeeeah sure...Ronan is really the nerdy one on the right here's biological kid, alright...yeeeeah, suuuuure he is) ;)

 

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7 minutes ago, Feego said:

Gloria Grahame did in fact marry her former stepson.  

 

Yeah as much as I love Gloria Grahame on the screen, knowing that about her gives me the heebie jeebies. 

 I genuinely feel sorry for her.  If it really happened, that's awful.  If her mother coached her, that's also awful.  She is a victim of someone, perhaps even of both parties to some degree. 

Nicely stated-I feel exactly the same. Just sordid.

the beauty of it all is that it's our individual prerogative to do so if we choose.

Agree also.

I read a lot of movie star biographies. It seems difficult for those in show business to lead normal no, typical lifestyles. And if you're the child of famous who becomes famous on your own, like Liza Minelli or Carrie Fisher, life must be surreal. You don't have the opportunity to casually interact with people your own age, developing a sense of how you fit in the world. Michael Jackson seemed to have suffered greatly from his incredible fame, robbing a sensitive child of any normal mental & emotional development.

Plus, look at how things are smeared in media. Everywhere. There's no Louis B Mayer to sweep your indiscretions under the rug. Honestly, we've all done things we're not proud of. But remain our little secrets.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Dargo said:

(...yeeeah sure...Ronan is really the nerdy one on the right here's biological kid, alright...yeeeeah, suuuuure he is) ;)

 

Which would mean Mia was having an affair with her ex-husband almost 20 years after divorcing him and also makes a little hypocritical odd her going ballistic about Woody's affair, although I suppose that one felt like a double betrayal to her. I don't know. I'm struggling to think of a less scandalous word, but it all feels a bit incestuous, all these affairs with ex'es and current's adopted children. These people need to get out more and meet the rest of humanity?

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1 minute ago, sewhite2000 said:

Which would mean Mia was having an affair with her ex-husband almost 20 years after divorcing him and also makes a little hypocritical odd her going ballistic about Woody's affair, although I suppose that one felt like a double betrayal to her. I don't know. I'm struggling to think of a less scandalous word, but it all feels a bit incestuous, all these affairs with ex'es and current's adopted children. These people need to get out more and meet the rest of humanity?

Exactly! Isn't it kind'a funny that that old stereotype about poor hillbillies "inbreeding" seems to also occasionally come up with big-monied celebrities TOO?

(...oh yeah, and royal families too, of course) ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Princess of Tap said:

Lucky not to be put in jail.

Officer, she looked 18 to me.

Fairy tales can come true
It can happen to you if you're young at heart
For it's hard, you will find
To be narrow of mind if you're young at heart
 
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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Really?! Gee, I wonder why?

Wait, could it MAYBE be because....

maxresdefault.jpg

(...yeeeah sure...Ronan is really the nerdy one on the right here's biological kid, alright...yeeeeah, suuuuure he is) ;)

 

Hmm....  Is there room in here for an option "C"?  Then you could at least have a posthumous "To Tell The Truth".

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2 hours ago, Dargo said:

Really?! Gee, I wonder why?

Wait, could it MAYBE be because....

maxresdefault.jpg

(...yeeeah sure...Ronan is really the nerdy one on the right here's biological kid, alright...yeeeeah, suuuuure he is) ;)

 

I don't have a picture of him, but many have said that Ronan Farrow is the spitting image of his grandfather John Farrow when he was a young man. So maybe Mia was attracted to old Blue Eyes because he reminded her of dear old dad?  But still, I don't see one similarity between Ronan and Woody. And you'd think if they were father and son you'd see something.

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1 hour ago, MovieCollectorOH said:

Hmm....  Is there room in here for an option "C"?  Then you could at least have a posthumous "To Tell The Truth".

LOL

Well, how about that OTHER "Ol' Blue Eyes" then?

Did Paul Newman ever have a tryst with Mia? ;)

(...btw, I'll never understand the attraction that some men had for her...she never EVER did a damn thing for ME, anyway...always seemed a bit too childlike and spacey for my tastes, and that if it WEREN'T for both her parents bein' in "The Biz", you never would have heard of or from her at all...well, at least that's always been MY take on her, anyway...born with the proverbial celebrity silver-spoon in her mouth, although I understand and to her credit, she's involved in a number of worthy charitable causes)

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On 9/28/2019 at 1:23 PM, calvinnme said:

The one thing that is proven is that he had an affair with and then married his own stepdaughter. She wasn't a minor at the time it started - Soon-Yi Previn was 20 - but it is rather hideous to think of a man taking a kid to the zoo in 1980 as a father figure and then bedding her eleven years later. Mia Farrow and Woody were never married, so he was never officially her stepdad, but in every other sense of the word he was.

Not so. Both Allen and Previn have stated unequivocally that he was never a father figure to her, and that in fact he saw very little of her when she was a child.  (One trip to the zoo over 15 years doesn't count.)

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On 9/29/2019 at 7:58 AM, TikiSoo said:

This may be true, but it still crosses the line of "improper behaviour" as far as I'm concerned. Any 50 year old person intimately involved with a 15 year old person is sick. Woody can be a mean, controlling dick on his film set, but how he conducts himself on the job is his business. If the staff doesn't like it, they can leave-he's only controlling their salary.

When those same controlling qualities spill over to an intimate relationship with a child, it's predatory behaviour -a mature adult should know better. Anyone in show business knows the price of negative publicity and the fact Woody did not control & overcome his compulsion shows he is a sick man. He has no shame.

While I still love many of his movies, I will not contribute to his success/wealth by spending money on him. 

TikiSoo, with great respect (I hate to disagree with you ), Soon Yi Previn was not 15 when she and Woody began their affair, she was of age, I think at least 20.

Now, yes, it is odd and what we generally call "creepy" that a man so much older would take a sexual /romantic interest in a woman so much younger than himself. But it is not fair to use words like "predatory" when speaking of Woody Allen and Soon Yi. Soon Yi  herself has said many times that she welcomed Allen's attention. And they've been married for many years now.

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On 9/29/2019 at 10:34 AM, AndreaDoria said:

Dylan Farrow, Woody's adopted daughter claimed, at the time and now that she's grown up, that Woody Allen molested her.

https://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/

She sounds credible to me.  Now, his new movie starring Jude Law is about a man who has an affair with a fifteen year-old.  Which sort of seems like Allen thumbing his nose at his critics and believing his fans will forgive anything.

I agree with ignoring the private life of actors, directors and producers up to a point.  I don't care if they have affairs or don't bathe on the weekends, but I draw the line at pedophiles and would feel complicit if I spent my money to make them richer.

Here's the thing about the pedophile allegation, regarding Dylan Farrow (as opposed to the Soon Yi story, which has been disproved.):  Admittedly, I know little about pedophiles, am no expert on the subject, and have no desire to know more about these sick people.

However, I do know this: someone who is a pedophile cannot stop themselves from pursuing their horrible compulsion as much and as often as they possibly can. So aside from the fact that the Dylan Farrow allegations were found to have no basis and were thrown out in a court of law, twice, there is this other point to consider: if Woody Allen were a pedophile, the Dylan Farrow accusation would not be the only one he'd be facing. The fact that no one else, ever, has come forward and claimed that he molested them (and he could easily have pursued children and found a way to do this if he'd wanted) suggests to me that he never did any such thing, nor did he ever desire to do so. If he were like that, there'd be other allegations against him from other people, and there never have been.

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On 9/29/2019 at 1:18 PM, laffite said:

By that, do you therefore mean that she is lying? That's a curious statement in that she is not talking about, say, a single incident, which would be easy to lie about. Her story involves systemic abuse over a long period. Unless you feel she is making the whole thing up. It doesn't read that way to me but of course I don't know.

Whaaat ?  !  Are you talking about Dylan Farrow's accusation? I always understand that even she claimed it was a one-time incident, not on-going abuse. News to me.

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I agree with speedracer and others here who have said they can and do separate the art from the artist.

I do not believe that Woody Allen molested anyone. And I think it's a shame that some are depriving themselves of seeing his great movies based on an unproven allegation.

He's a prolific filmmaker, and over the years has made quite a few duds in addition to his many wonderful movies. His best films are funny, wise, insightful, moving - and above all, entertaining. He has contributed to American film culture in a profound and significant way through his best movies, which have deservedly become a part of film history. I sincerely hope that this "cancel culture" which has taken hold over society at this time does not succeed in cancelling Woody Allen's great work. But then again, now that I think of it, that would be impossible. His films are too good to not survive this current fashionable loathing of him. 

It's been said that Mozart was a bit of a perv. Should we refuse to listen to his sublime music based on what he was like as a person? Don't think so.

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4 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

 I don't know. I'm struggling to think of a less scandalous word, but it all feels a bit incestuous, all these affairs with ex'es and current's adopted children. These people need to get out more and meet the rest of humanity?

Kind of along these lines...

In Carrie Fisher's Wishful Drinking book and special, she makes light of how much her family tree and Elizabeth Taylor's (whom we all know was married to Carrie Fisher's father, Eddie Fisher) intertwine.

Image result for carrie fisher's wishful drinking family tree

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Thanks, Lawrence, for the pic of John Farrow, who, after I look at him ... well, maybe Ronan isn't Frank Sinatra's son after all.

Ronan's birth name, I believe, was Satchell, which I assume Woody took from legendary Negro Leagues and later-in-life Major League pitcher Satchell Paige. I've never heard any explanation for the name change, but I assume Ronan wanted the Japanese word for "loner" or "drifter" or more historically specific "lord without a master" to be indentified by. My understanding is that he's broken all contact with Woody. This whole mess is sad.

 

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On 9/29/2019 at 10:34 AM, cigarjoe said:

And on this same board everyone thinks Bogart and Bacall was just fine.

Lighten up its playing into the game plans to rake this crap up. You don't hear anybody mentioning the 24 year diff between Twump and Melania. 

LOL. Yeah, you do. People call him a perv in the off-topic section all the time (and rightfully so).

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43 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

Ronan's birth name, I believe, was Satchell, which I assume Woody took from legendary Negro Leagues and later-in-life Major League pitcher Satchell Paige. I've never heard any explanation for the name change, but I assume Ronan wanted the Japanese word for "loner" or "drifter" or more historically specific "lord without a master" to be indentified by. My understanding is that he's broken all contact with Woody. This whole mess is sad.

Wow, that's really a bit edgy. :lol: Good for him though for cutting ties with Woody Allen if he dislikes him so much. 

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12 hours ago, Hibi said:

Sorry, I don't buy that.

I meant Mia & Ronan Farrow getting not only $$$ but more fame, after all it got him a brief gig on MSNBC

 

(P.S. I never found out the final result in him & her insisting he was *Frank's son?)

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