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FAKE John Wayne Movies


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Does anyone happen to have any information or knowledge of these weird colorized "Lone Star Production" movies with John Wayne.  They're  B-Westerns from the early 1930s (quite possibly some of the Duke's earliest Westerns he's ever made), and they've been colorized, quite impressively.  They're on GRIT TV (cable network that plays only Western movies and TV shows) right now, and have been for the past couple of Friday nights, if anyone wants to see them.  The first time I had ever seen any of these, I could've sworn it was a movie from the 1940s or 1950s filmed in three-strip Technicolor, until I saw a very young John Wayne.  That's when I knew it was a colorized version of an early 1930s film.  Now, mind you, I'm not a fan of colorized films at all, but I was somewhat impressed with how natural and realistic the color looked, but that doesn't mean these versions of these movies are all that great.  It's quite impossible to sit and enjoy these films for what they are, or at least appear to be, because all of the music, sound effects, and, believe it or not, the voices are all recreated.  The voices are all dubbed by some amateur performers with little to no acting experience, and yes, even John Wayne's voice is remade.  It sounds sort of like him, but if they wanted a good impression of the Duke, they should've hired either Rich Little or John Byner to do the voice.  There's no credits as to who did the voices, music, or colorization, though.  With these colorized movies, you can't even enjoy them by turning off the color on your TV set, because all of the sounds are fake.   These "re-created" films are such a joke, it's all worth a laugh!

My question is, would anyone know when these colorized versions are from and why are all of the sounds remade?  I mean, it's not like the original audio tracks were lost for years, because I know I had seen at least one of these films before on TCM, that is with the original black and white picture and soundtrack. 

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Who can say what goes on in the mind of someone who will colorize a movie?  I shudder in abject terror at the thought.  All that occurs to me offhand is that someone who will not hesitate to colorize will also not hesitate to commit other offenses.  Perhaps they, or he, or she thought with such a pretty picture, the old fuzzy voices from public domain prints wouldn't be good enough.

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It's not just that these John Wayne movies were colorized.  What makes them unbearable to watch is the fact that the ENTIRE soundtrack (music, sounds effects and voices) is ALL re-dubbed, and it just makes them even more fake, let alone being put to color. The color looks pretty believable, though, but I still don't approve of it.  I stated something once before about the first several movies to be colorized by "Colorization Inc." had such poor color choices.  Just take a look at the colorized version of "THE ANGEL AND THE BADMAN", which also stars John Wayne.  It has such pitiful color tinting.  I mean, the color is so faded-looking, it barely has any rich color choices at all.  Now, if that's not bad enough, take a look at Laurel and Hardy's "WAY OUT WEST".  I've seen it before on TV about a month ago, or so.  This has got to be the WORST colorized version of a movie EVER.  Everything that's supposedly put to color is all brown and grey.  It almost looks like it's filmed in sepiatone.  At least in the Colorization Inc. version of "THE MUSIC BOX" (the Oscar-winning short subject where Laurel and Hardy are moving a piano), the colors DO look bright and rich, but it just looks like it's made to resemble the look of hand-tinted lobby cards and theatrical posters.  The same can be said about Colorization Inc.'s version of "IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE" (which I had come across on tape from a friend of mine).  This film's colorization, which had stirred up a lot of controversy among the public, has that "lobby card" look to it with bright and garish color choices.  These films are just best left alone in black and white as they were intended to be shown.  I still don't know why these "Lone Star" Westerns had the entire soundtrack remade, though.

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Admittedly, I'm not as knowledgeable as most here, but what evidence is there that these early films were completely redubbed? I wouldn't expect a 30's version to sound like a 60 year old after another 30 years of smoking. The 'Singing Sandy' bits also seemed genuine.

Until Lone Star offered these, I had never seen them, so I was grateful for the restorations.

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I admit being wrong about the singing. I just assumed kit was him because it was so horrible. Seemed like they would have gotten someone who could sing.

As far as the dubbing, I'm not hearing it. I can't tell anything is other than the actors.

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18 hours ago, SummerStars said:

It's not just that these John Wayne movies were colorized.  What makes them unbearable to watch is the fact that the ENTIRE soundtrack (music, sounds effects and voices) is ALL re-dubbed, and it just makes them even more fake, let alone being put to color. The color is looks pretty believable, though, but I still don't approve of it.  I stated something once before about the first several movies to be colorized by "Colorization Inc." had such poor color choices.  Just take a look at the colorized version of "THE ANGEL AND THE BADMAN", which also stars John Wayne.  It has such pitiful color tinting.  I mean, the color is so faded-looking, it barely has any rich color choices at all.  Now, if that's not bad enough, take a look at Laurel and Hardy's "WAY OUT WEST".  I've seen it before on TV about a month ago, or so.  This has got to be the WORST colorized version of a movie EVER.  Everything that's supposedly put to color is all brown and grey.  It almost looks like it's filmed in sepiatone.  At least in the Colorization Inc. version of "THE MUSIC BOX" (the Oscar-winning short subject where Laurel and Hardy are moving a piano), the colors DO look bright and rich, but it just looks like it's made to resemble the look of hand-tinted lobby cards and theatrical posters.  The same can be said about Colorization Inc.'s version of "IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE" (which I had come across on tape from a friend of mine).  This film's colorization, which had stirred up a lot of controversy among the public, has that "lobby card" look to it with bright and garish color choices.  These films are just best left alone in black and white as they were intended to be shown.  I still don't know why these "Lone Star" Westerns had the entire soundtrack remade, though.

The giveaway for me is whoever recreated the soundtrack for this trailer used modern  bad habits only known to today's 'cinema'.  All that's missing is the "thud thud thud thud thud", "thud thud thud thud thud", "thud thud thud thud thud" to get some arrhythmia going.

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So, as far as I've been able to figure out, the colorization was done by CST, which started colorizing films back in 1983.  A subsidiary, called CST Featurizations added a new soundtrack, and applied for a new copyright.  This company filed for Chapter 7 back in the 90s.  Multicom apparently owns the distribution rights.   These old John Wayne films were also repackaged into 30 minute episodes called Young Duke.

These things are available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/John-Wayne-Colorized-Collection/dp/B01M2U5R3Q

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Actually, I can only recall seeing two colorized early JW movies: Angel and the Badman and Shepherd of the Hills.

At one time, I had recorded almost all of his early movies including the two above, all in B&W.

A forced relocation due to health left them all behind.

It seemed to me the music was the same in all of his early B westerns.

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On 2/22/2020 at 7:49 PM, Mike1951 said:

Actually, I can only recall seeing two colorized early JW movies: Angel and the Badman and Shepherd of the Hills.

At one time, I had recorded almost all of his early movies including the two above, all in B&W.

A forced relocation due to health left them all behind.

It seemed to me the music was the same in all of his early B westerns.

THE SHEPHERD OF THE HILLS (1941) was made in Technicolor by Paramount. It's always been in color. It is not in the public domain.

ANGEL AND THE BADMAN (1947), however, is in the public domain. It's a Republic picture, originally produced in black-and-white.

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I must point out again that "THE ANGEL AND THE BADMAN" was indeed colorized by Colorization Inc. around the time films like "IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE" were being sabota...I mean colorized just for better marketing and viewership through local and independent TV stations.  This version is seen on INSP-TV (a TV channel, like GRIT-TV, that plays mostly Western movies and TV shows) every so often, usually on Sunday nights.  Some of these colorized John Wayne films (with the fake audio) were on GRIT last night, yet again.  I believe those films were from the mid-30s, because they were from Republic Pictures, rather than Lone Star Productions.

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, MovieGusher said:

The coloring is great, but the sound tracks are horrible, come on Grit get this fixed, The Duke has to be Duke

Grit has no control over it.  They didn't create the new soundtracks on these films.  They merely bought the rights from a distributor to air those films.  The only way they can fix it is to buy the rights to the original copies of the films (in B&W), if they're available. 

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13 minutes ago, Alan In Charlotte said:
  • I was watching GRIT this morning and was absolutely disgusted in watching the two JW Lone Star colorized films.  I wrote GRIT, although they never reply to anything...even the distributor.  These are a waste of time and an just a ridiculous slap in the face to all B-Western fans.  

Does GRIT have an intros?    Something where they tell their viewers this is an "enhanced" version of the film?     (note that I do put "enhanced" in quotes because that is subjective and in my view colorized films are NOT an enhancement).

 

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I'm glad others are aware of these colorized versions of these movies.  Sure, the color is nice because it looks so realistic, as if the movies themselves were really shot in three-strip Technicolor, but the remade dialogue sounds below amateur level.  The Duke's voice ALMOST sounds like him, but you can just tell it's fake.  Don't even get me started on how fake and forced the tone of acting sounds in the actors' voices.  Since these are all B-Westerns, these versions make them far below that level.  More like D or F-Westerns.  I just don't understand why GRIT-TV still intends on showing them on their channel.  The only good thing I can say about them is that they're so bad, they're worth a good laugh!  I still would like to see the one early John Wayne Western in which he plays a singing cowboy.  Imagine what the dubbed version of that would sound like!  I do believe the ORIGINAL versions of these films (in black and white and with the original audio) were on TCM when they first began doing there "Saturday Matinee".

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13 hours ago, SummerStars said:

I'm glad others are aware of these colorized versions of these movies.  Sure, the color is nice because it looks so realistic, as if the movies themselves were really shot in three-strip Technicolor, but the remade dialogue sounds below amateur level.  The Duke's voice ALMOST sounds like him, but you can just tell it's fake.  Don't even get me started on how fake and forced the tone of acting sounds in the actors' voices. 

I'm very confused now.     It was my understanding this thread was started related to how "fake" these Wayne westerns were due to them being colorized and in addition when they were colorized "they"  (those that did this),  also messed with the sound making it of poorer quality than the original sound.

NOW,   I read this which implies the "color is nice because it looks so realistic" and it is the sound that is "fake".      The way this post reads "they" used other actors and dubbing to replace Wayne's and other actor's voices?       Please note that "fake" as in phony (not authentic),   is a lot different than "of poor quality".

 

 

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11 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I'm very confused now.     It was my understanding this thread was started related to how "fake" these Wayne westerns were due to them being colorized and in addition when they were colorized "they"  (those that did this),  also messed with the sound making it of poorer quality than the original sound.

NOW,   I read this which implies the "color is nice because it looks so realistic" and it is the sound that is "fake".      The way this post reads "they" used other actors and dubbing to replace Wayne's and other actor's voices?       Please note that "fake" as in phony (not authentic),   is a lot different than "of poor quality".

 

 

The OP stated that they thought the voices were dubbed (the music is definitely not original):

On 2/21/2020 at 8:15 PM, SummerStars said:

 

 Now, mind you, I'm not a fan of colorized films at all, but I was somewhat impressed with how natural and realistic the color looked, but that doesn't mean these versions of these movies are all that great.  It's quite impossible to sit and enjoy these films for what they are, or at least appear to be, because all of the music, sound effects, and, believe it or not, the voices are all recreated.  The voices are all dubbed by some amateur performers with little to no acting experience, and yes, even John Wayne's voice is remade.  It sounds sort of like him, but if they wanted a good impression of the Duke, they should've hired either Rich Little or John Byner to do the voice.  There's no credits as to who did the voices, music, or colorization, though.  With these colorized movies, you can't even enjoy them by turning off the color on your TV set, because all of the sounds are fake.   These "re-created" films are such a joke, it's all worth a laugh!

My question is, would anyone know when these colorized versions are from and why are all of the sounds remade?  I mean, it's not like the original audio tracks were lost for years, because I know I had seen at least one of these films before on TCM, that is with the original black and white picture and soundtrack. 

To me, it's definitely been dubbed.  Others disagreed.

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16 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

To me, it's definitely been dubbed.  Others disagreed.

Dubbed by other actors?      I.e.  That isn't Wayne's actual voice?     Yea,  I see where SummerStars is saying that is the case. 

I would find that hard to believe since the cost to hire others actors to come in and read dialog and then to use that in place of the existing original dialog,  wouldn't be "worth it".    I.e. they couldn't recoup the cost of doing this.

Isn't it more likely that after colorizing,  and changing the music,   when "they" put it all back together the voice dialog got really "messed up".

Hey,   I haven't seen or heard these so I'm not saying I'm right here.    Just that I have never heard of such a thing being done for the same language (E.g. English to English duping).

PS:  I have seen same-language duping but that was limited to some Utah religious folks that used duping to replace  cuss words with non-cuss words.    These were NOT public domain films and the Director Guild sued them and won.        I.e. one can't make those type of changes without consent of the owners. 

Thanks 

 

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Yes, dubbed by present-day performers.  Watch the trailer at the link above.  It has enough material to let you hear for yourself and decide.  There's also a link to the original film.  Agree that it's expensive to replace the soundtrack, but union scale for the performers is probably cheaper than paying the cost to colorize.

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Yes, indeed I was VERY surprised myself that someone would ever go as far as dubbing over the original dialogue with amateur impressions of the actors on screen (although Duke's voice sounds almost convincing).  I still don't understand the point of this, except possibly since the music was all re-orchestrated, and figuring that if the voices heard over the background music are dubbed over, then so should the rest of the dialogue.   Honestly, I've never seen any other movies, whether they'd be colorized or not, that have both the music, sound effects, and voices all recreated.

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14 hours ago, SummerStars said:

Yes, indeed I was VERY surprised myself that someone would ever go as far as dubbing over the original dialogue with amateur impressions of the actors on screen (although Duke's voice sounds almost convincing).  I still don't  understand the point of this, except possibly since the music was all re-orchestrated, and figuring that if the voices heard over the background music are dubbed over, then so should the rest of the dialogue.   Honestly, I've never seen any other movies, whether they'd be colorized or not, that have both the music, sound effects, and voices all recreated.

Not in the same language as the original, as jamesjazzguitar pointed out.  The only time I've seen music swapped out is when a film or TV property falls into the public domain, but the music is still under copyright protection, so cheap packagers/distributors will throw in a generic music bed instead of the copyrighted material.  It happens most often with individual TV episodes that for some reason weren't properly copyrighted to begin with (like some episodes of The Andy Griffith Show, etc.)

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15 hours ago, SummerStars said:

[...] amateur impressions of the actors on screen (although Duke's voice sounds almost convincing).[...]

Yeah, the sound level was so low I was not sure but what some of the original dialogue was left in--the Wayne was very Wayne-like but sounded about ten years too young! As if Wayne was 15 instead of about 25.

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On 2/22/2020 at 3:52 PM, txfilmfan said:

Here's a trailer that shows what SummerStars brought up:

Clearly dubbed, and new music.  Compare to the original:

https://archive.org/details/WINDSOFTHEWASTELANDVideoQualityUpgrade

That was so bad I just had to laugh. What would possess anyone to do that? Just show the regular movie and don't go to all this trouble just to mess it up. 

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