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Gone With The Wind (1939) Surprising And Shocking Moments


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Okay, so now the following might not be all that shocking in GWTW, but after watching this movie again for maybe the 10th time last week on TCM, I'd like to give a little shout out to actress Ona Munson who played the cathouse madam Belle Watling...

 Ona_Munson_as_Belle_Watling.jpg

And especially for the scene pictured above, and when in this closing shot of her face is shown during her final appearance in the film which entails her telling Rhett he'll never get over Scarlett's spell after he came to Belle to cry on her shoulder about his wife.

(...as Rhett walks out her door, the camera pans over to her face and you see a tear come down her face, and a telling sign that she's always possessed much more feelings for him than just as a "customer")

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22 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Okay, so now the following might not be all that shocking in GWTW, but after watching this movie again for maybe the 10th time last week on TCM, I'd like to give a little shout out to actress Ona Munson who played the cathouse madam Belle Watling...

 Ona_Munson_as_Belle_Watling.jpg

And especially for the scene pictured above, and when in this closing shot of her face is shown during her final appearance in the film which entails her telling Rhett he'll never get over Scarlett's spell after he came to Belle to cry on her shoulder about his wife.

(...as Rhett walks out her door, the camera pans over to her face and you see a tear come down her face, and a telling sign that she's always possessed much more feelings for him than just as a "customer")

didn't the actress die young and mysteriously

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8 minutes ago, spence said:

didn't the actress die young and mysteriously

Yep, she did die at the relatively young age of 51, spence. However, her death according to the following excerpt from her Wiki bio page, was ruled a suicide by drug overdose, and thus perhaps not so mysterious:

Munson married painter Edward Berman in 1950, her second husband after a five-year marriage to actor Edward Buzzell. She also had several documented affairs with women, including Alla Nazimova and playwright Mercedes de Acosta. Some commentators have considered her marriages as "lavender marriages", concealing Munson's homosexuality. By the mid-1950s, Munson was suffering from health complications following an unspecified surgical procedure, and frequently was using barbiturates. In February 1955, Berman found Munson dead in their Manhattan apartment, having committed suicide via a barbiturate overdose.

 

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On 2/27/2020 at 7:22 PM, LornaHansonForbes said:

 Would have been really interesting to have seen a bunch of dancers in nominated designs from THE SWARM try and do DISCO MOVES as a bunch of killer bees swarm around them.

They wouldn't be doing just disco. they would go: DO THE HUSTLE!

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9 hours ago, Hibi said:

ROFL!!! Now I'm going to have nightmares! Think money changed hands somewhere to get this nomination.....

It kind of lucked out though. Looking at the five that missed out on the nod that year, two were contemporary films (Big Fix and House Calls), one had them wear the same outfits through most of the film (Autumn Sonata), one had mostly old tired looking clothing (Goin South). I guess if there was a snub of the other five, it was Grease, because some of the outfits in that film are remembered by many (especially that tight leather outfit Olivia Newton-John had in the last scene)

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On 2/27/2020 at 7:22 PM, LornaHansonForbes said:

GOD BLESS YOU FOR THIS. 
I was just thinking of it the other day. I really wish the COSTUME NOMINEE DANCE PARTY had become a long-standing tradition with the Academy. Would have been really interesting to have seen a bunch of dancers in nominated designs from THE SWARM try and do DISCO MOVES as a bunch of killer bees swarm around them.

Like THESE guys?  :D 

 

Sepiatone

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  • 3 months later...

As for the film - Gone with the Wind;   Not listed as part of my top 50;   Yea,  great production values,  some fine acting,  and a few solid scenes but overall only a 'good' film.

The main reason being that the love-story-triangle is so  juvenile.    I don't see romance or even much sexual lust (well except from Rhett who gets-it elsewhere anyhow).   

Scarlett isn't a heroine.    Ok she is a strong women but that comes from being greedy,  mean and cruel (E.g. how she treats her workers).

Too much of a soap opera for my taste. 

PS:  The above are only my opinions.      Like some others,  I hope I don't come off as implying my opinions are facts!

 

 

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I wish there was an emoji just for disagreeing without having other meanings. GWTW is great film,. there are many instances where Scarlett is a heroine, maybe pay attention if you ever watch the film again. She saves Melanie's life and her baby, she saves Tara, she endures so many hardships doing that. her "meaness" as you say saves lives. The love story is not "juvenile" and it's not a soap opera. Scarlett grows as a woman but  her realizations are  too late for her and Rhett and yet Scarlett's optimism in the end is hopeful and it's what has always kept Scarlett going despite the odds. against her.

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4 hours ago, lavenderblue19 said:

I wish there was an emoji just for disagreeing without having other meanings. GWTW is great film,. there are many instances where Scarlett is a heroine, maybe pay attention if you ever watch the film again. She saves Melanie's life and her baby, she saves Tara, she endures so many hardships doing that. her "meaness" as you say saves lives. The love story is not "juvenile" and it's not a soap opera. Scarlett grows as a woman but  her realizations are  too late for her and Rhett and yet Scarlett's optimism in the end is hopeful and it's what has always kept Scarlett going despite the odds. against her.

Haven't seen the movie in a long time, but having seen it several times I think I remember it fairly well.  Scarlett is not "mean," she is ambitious, motivated and independent.   She is a survivor in the Reconstruction era.  [An era where white Southerners suffered that is seldom presented in movies - or even acknowledged here.  She is also successful in a society that frowns upon women being anything other than ornaments and baby makers. 

As for mean to her employees, yes but she is also "mean" to herself and expects much of others.  She expects a lot more.  Of course the "meanness" may refer to use of convict labor.  That was popular in the South for a long time and probably elsewhere in the country as well.  Was she mean to them or just weak in not questioning how the supervisor got work out of them at a low cost?  When people purchase something cheap on Amazon or at WalMart do they ask how the children in Asia suffered to make it?  Doubtful.

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1 minute ago, TheCid said:

Haven't seen the movie in a long time, but having seen it several times I think I remember it fairly well.  Scarlett is not "mean," she is ambitious, motivated and independent.   She is a survivor in the Reconstruction era.  [An era where white Southerners suffered that is seldom presented in movies - or even acknowledged here.  She is also successful in a society that frowns upon women being anything other than ornaments and baby makers. 

As for mean to her employees, yes but she is also "mean" to herself and expects much of others.  She expects a lot more.  Of course the "meanness" may refer to use of convict labor.  That was popular in the South for a long time and probably elsewhere in the country as well.  Was she mean to them or just weak in not questioning how the supervisor got work out of them at a low cost?  When people purchase something cheap on Amazon or at WalMart do they ask how the children in Asia suffered to make it?  Doubtful.

I agree, the comment about "meaness" was referring to jjg's comment using the word "meaness". It was not my word to describe Scarlett. I agree with you, ambitious, motivated and independent is a good way to describe Scarlett. she may have  started out as a spoiled, pampered girl  and clueless about the situation others were in but turns into a much wiser woman about herself and others around her.

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4 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

And Killer Bees.

Full confession off topic.... when they brought up those murder hornets a few weeks ago, I honestly thought that it would unfortunately lead to a resurgence of interest in The Swarm......

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Scarlett O'Hara was a spoiled, self centred, pampered ****. But she was also a tough hard nosed ambitious survivor who had more guts in her tiny finger than many people do in their entire body. A friend of mine, who was black, and had had a hard road in life (to put it mildly) watched GWTW one evening at my home and the next morning waxed enthusiastically about the film. Not a word came out of her, curiously, about the racial stereotyping in the film (and she was  person who frequently spoke about prejudice) but she found Scarlett to be a highly inspirational figure because of her strength and fortitude.

Scarlett O'Hara is a classic survivor. Aside from the rose coloured portrait of the antebellum South, the soap opera antics of the story (particularly in the second half) and the inherent racism of the story, we need inspirational heroes and heroines in the world, today as much as ever. In that respect, whatever other faults one may find with this film, Scarlett (far from the most likeable person the movies have ever given us with her flawed character) still fulfills that role.

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Antebellum, Scarlett was a manipulative witch, bellum, she was a manipulative witch, postbellum,

she was a manipulative witch, just in a more economic sphere. She stole her sister's husband to be,

married the rich old coot and he graciously was killed and she inherited the business. After that

it was more exploitation and low dealing. Sort of business Donny with better hair. Wind is kind

of the culmination of the higher Hollywood nonsense. As entertaining as if often is, it's difficult

not to see it as a piece of overheated melodrama. 

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2 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Antebellum, Scarlett was a manipulative witch, bellum, she was a manipulative witch, postbellum,

she was a manipulative witch, just in a more economic sphere. She stole her sister's husband to be,

married the rich old coot and he graciously was killed and she inherited the business. After that

it was more exploitation and low dealing. Sort of business Donny with better hair. Wind is kind

of the culmination of the higher Hollywood nonsense. As entertaining as if often is, it's difficult

not to see it as a piece of overheated melodrama. 

And THIS is exactly what I've thought of its SECOND HALF since the very first time I watched it during its early-'70s theater re-issue("ante"-CBS television premiere) showing.

But once again, only or at least primarily its second half.

Now, I think its FIRST HALF is not only much better paced and less episodic (besides being less melodramatic or "soapy") but also contains some of the best cinematography in any film ever made.

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The first half of the movie Scarlet's a typical teen - self centered. She's so wrapped up in herself she doesn't realize other people exist outside of her own needs.

In the second half she realizes no one is going to take care of her any more. She steps up and not only takes care of herself, but everyone else around her-the O'Haras, the Wilkes & the slaves.

And when the one person who would take care of her leaves, she stops crying, realizing she'll be OK without him.

If that coming-of-age maturation came from a man, the comment would be "He's grown up! Strong!"

But because she's a woman, the comments are always, "what a witch!" proving misogyny still exists in our society.

13 hours ago, TheCid said:

Was she mean to them or just weak in not questioning how the supervisor got work out of them at a low cost? 

I especially like Ashley's line, "we never treated our darkies that way".  And I agree with Cid that this is no different today with exploitative companies. How many of you turn a blind eye to Amazon's business practices because it's so cheap & convenient?

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YOU KNOW, I think my favorite moment in the film (and it's probably just mine and no one else's, since it's not a major scene) is the scene where THE YANKEES** are just outside Atlanta, and SCARLETT runs to AUNT PITTYPAT'S HOUSE to pack her things and split, and she runs into AUNT PITTY and her butler UNCLE PETER getting ready to evacuate (the part where LAURA HOPE CREWS slams the lid to the trunk with the FAMILY CHINA, smashing it in her dithered panic as the mortars go off is priceless) I also love how DOC MEAD talks SCARLETT into staying with the pregnant Melanie and PITTY PANICS:

OIP.DDjf4GQUN34vcJ3cSWPHwwHaFX?pid=Api&r

AUNT PITTY: "A young woman left behind without a chaperone!? Why it simply isn't done!" 

DOC MEAD: "Good Lord, woman, this is WAR not a GARDEN PARTY."

But besides the humor and the DRAMA! of the scene, I have always wondered about AUNT PITTY and UNCLE PETER'S carriage ride to wherever the Hell it was they were going and just what happened to them in the weeks following Sherman's March.

we see both characters again, so we know they survived, and in spite of PITTY'S concerns about a CHAPERONE for SCARLETT, one wonders if just maybe she and UNCLE PETER had to spend a few rainy nights together under a bridge.

72d92674e53fc2f8f99921c792b0e2b7--gone-w

(THAT TO ME, is the basis for a REALLY FASCINATING STORY- whether or not it could be pulled off without being glib or condescending, i cannot say)

if there ever is a revisionist version of GTW, I would gladly contribute an attempt at just what sort of weirdassed, life-changing  ROAD TRIP that turned out to be.

 

**Yes I am from NORTH CAROLINA, and YES, we still use the word YANKEES and NO we are NOT going to stop doing that.

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7 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

The first half of the movie Scarlet's a typical teen - self centered. She's so wrapped up in herself she doesn't realize other people exist outside of her own needs.

In the second half she realizes no one is going to take care of her any more. She steps up and not only takes care of herself, but everyone else around her-the O'Haras, the Wilkes & the slaves.

And when the one person who would take care of her leaves, she stops crying, realizing she'll be OK without him.

If that coming-of-age maturation came from a man, the comment would be "He's grown up! Strong!"

But because she's a woman, the comments are always, "what a witch!" proving misogyny still exists in our society.

I especially like Ashley's line, "we never treated our darkies that way".  And I agree with Cid that this is no different today with exploitative companies. How many of you turn a blind eye to Amazon's business practices because it's so cheap & convenient?

Interesting perspective here related to misogyny and it's implied impact on how one views Scarlett (especially the 'coming-of-age' maturation):

So did Rhett make a major mistake leaving her at the end of the film?    Was he being  a misogynist?   I.e.   he only wanted a wife \ life partner if he could control and dominate,  and he couldn't do that with the now strong,  grown up Scarlett?

I.e.  Scarlett had maturated to become the type of women any secure man would love to have as a wife \ life partner and Rhett was just too insecure to deal with such a women?

 

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Can you kids point me to the thread about Zippy doo dah Song of the South that we are not allowed to watch anymore? We had an in depth discussion about this at work last night, most of us at the age where we adored the film as children. 

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