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2020 Election....


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13 hours ago, shutoo said:

I've been thinking...How Big Is This???  Well, I'm no kid, and in my lifetime there has never been an american election that has instigated completely unplanned demonstrations of happiness, and relief around the world!   

and on a lighter note, here are some random reactions to booting whiney little donnie out of the WH:

Animated GIF\Animated GIF\  Mary Tyler Moore is gonna make it after all. Hat toss. gif | Mary tyler  moore show, Mary tyler moore, Brian atwood

Animated GIF   Animated GIF

Animated GIF    When Harry Met Sally GIFs | Tenor

It is big, but not as big as we would like to think.  Except for a couple of seats, we only replaced one Republican (Trump).  The rest are still there  and having views very similar to Trumps will  do as much damage as possible.

The people barely succeeded in removing the worst president and greatest threat to democracy in US history.  However, the Republicans still won most state and local elections that might have been in contention.  The House has more GOPers now than at any time since 2017.  It is unlikely that the GOPers will not win both senate seats in Georgia and retain control of the Senate.

Should we celebrate, darn right.  

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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7 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Should we celebrate, darn right.  

4 years of Trump was bad enough.  Many suspected that another 4 would have doomed America as the democratic country that we know.  That is why people around the world are breathing a sigh of relief.  In Canada the reaction has been thank goodness we no longer have to check every tweet and see what new form of chaos is in store.

It is just too bad that 70 million Americans still thought it okay to vote for a known racist and such a cruel, cruel human being.  They will have to work on that.

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On 11/7/2020 at 7:51 PM, Vautrin said:

I can just see Trump up in the private quarters of the White House doing the Orson Welles smashing up the

furniture scene from Citizen Kane. Crash. Boom.

I'm half expecting him to leave the WH in shambles after he leaves......

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On 11/7/2020 at 9:51 PM, Bogie56 said:

"BAD THINGS HAPPENED WHICH OUR OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SEE"

:lol:  Believe Me.

So how does he know these bad things happened then? LOL.

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12 hours ago, noah80 said:

President Trump is planning to bring back his large-scale rallies that were a hallmark of his presidential run, but these will be focused on his “ongoing litigation” as he challenges the results of last week’s election.

According a report by Axios and confirmed by Fox News, Trumps’ campaign plans to take less traditional path to challenging the results of the election, including holding “a series of Trump rallies” focused on the campaigns ongoing legal efforts in numerous states across the country.

Along with the rallies, Trump is also planning to use obituaries of people who allegedly voted but are actually dead as evidence of the voter fraud he's been claiming. The campaign is also sending recount teams Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsylvania, with Rep. Doug Collins, R-Ga., heading up the effort in the Peach State.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-plans-to-revive-campaign-style-rallies-as-he-pursues-legal-challenges-to-election-results

SPREAD THAT VIRUS!!!!

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24 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

4 years of Trump was bad enough.  Many suspected that another 4 would have doomed America as the democratic country that we know.  That is why people around the world are breathing a sigh of relief.  In Canada the reaction has been thank goodness we no longer have to check every tweet and see what new form of chaos is in store.

It is just too bad that 70 million Americans still thought it okay to vote for a known racist and such a cruel, cruel human being.  They will have to work on that.

That's right.  Let's insult everyone who voted for Trump so they will never vote for a Democrat.

"They will have to work on that."  So, you are saying that you are not an American and we Americans have to work on it?

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10 minutes ago, ElCid said:

That's right.  Let's insult everyone who voted for Trump so they will never vote for a Democrat.

"They will have to work on that."  So, you are saying that you are not an American and we Americans have to work on it?

I am not trying to get votes here.  I'm just speaking the damned truth even though it may hurt.  And I am not the only one saying it.  Thousands of people in America are saying it.

There is no excuse when voting for a known racist.  What?  Oh, I think he's good for the economy and he was good for American pride?  There was a guy in Germany in the last century that they were saying the same thing about.

Obviously we or you or everybody has to work on it.  This sort of condoning racism and cruelty and ignorance of a deadly pandemic should not continue.

Now, obviously democratic politicians cannot say the things that I have just said.  I don't expect them too.  You can attract more bees with honey.  But this is just the plain ugly truth of what has been going on in America with the cult of Trump.   You term that as an insult.  I don't.  It's the truth.

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4 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

I am not trying to get votes here.  I'm just speaking the damned truth even though it may hurt.  And I am not the only one saying it.  Thousands of people in America are saying it.

There is no excuse when voting for a known racist.  What?  Oh, I think he's good for the economy and he was good for American pride?  There was a guy in Germany in the last century that they were saying the same thing about.

Obviously we or you or everybody has to work on it.  This sort of condoning racism and cruelty and ignorance of a deadly pandemic should not continue.

Now, obviously democratic politicians cannot say the things that I have just said.  I don't expect them too.  You can attract more bees with honey.  But this is just the plain ugly truth of what has been going on in America with the cult of Trump.   You term that as an insult.  I don't.  It's the truth.

Then start working on it and quit insulting 70+ million American voters!

It is not that they wanted to vote for a "known racist," but that they did not want to vote for Biden and/or the Democratic platform.

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About half an hour ago Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was asked if his congratulations to Joe Biden was premature.  He said he had every faith in the American election results and was looking forward to working with President-Elect Biden.

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Just now, ElCid said:

Then start working on it and quit insulting 70+ million American voters!

It is not that they wanted to vote for a "known racist," but that they did not want to vote for Biden and/or the Democratic platform.

But they did vote for a known racist.  Period.

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2 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

But they did vote for a known racist.  Period.

No, they voted for a racist who was the only person on the ballot that supported their political positions.  

Too bad your hatred for Trump just won't let you get past it.

 

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2 minutes ago, ElCid said:

No, they voted for a racist who was the only person on the ballot that supported their political positions.  

Too bad your hatred for Trump just won't let you get past it.

 

You make my point.  "No, they voted for a racist ..."    I acknowledged that it may be for reasons of their own but does that make this okay in any way at all?  Think about that.

This has nothing to do with my hatred of Trump.  You are making an argument where there should not be one.

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43 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

You make my point.  "No, they voted for a racist ..."    I acknowledged that it may be for reasons of their own but does that make this okay in any way at all?  Think about that.

This has nothing to do with my hatred of Trump.  You are making an argument where there should not be one.

I think is is "okay" for someone to vote for a candidate that lack values and has major character issues when that candidate has policy positions that are significantly more aligned with theirs verses the other parties' candidates.     As I have said before this is being pragmatic.       It is voting for one's interest. 

Cid and I have made this point over 20 times in the last year or so.     I get that you look at this differently.

In addition trying to guilt people that belong to that-other-party (or independents) into voting for one's party\candidate using shame and guilt is a very poor strategy.       This is also true for politicians trying to seek compromise with the other party  (this last comment relates to what Cid posted about the Jim Clyburn's comment):    Hey,   racist GOP party,    work with us Dems to pass legislation on immigration and education \ job training for inner-city residences.        I don't see Mitch calling Jim back! 

Biden understand all of this.     Note that one of the major criticisms of Biden by progressives during the Dem primaries was that Biden was too accommodating.    

 

      

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I think is is "okay" for someone to vote for a candidate that lack values and has major character issues when that candidate has policy positions that are significantly more aligned with theirs verses the other parties' candidates.     As I have said before this is being pragmatic.       It is voting for one's interest.       

I understand that policy may be more important than character, up to a pointFor example, it used to be said that the French were more sophisticated than Americans, because they didn't care if their leaders had mistresses. That is a character issue that really has nothing to do with policy, and I agree that we don't need to care about such things, even if it makes the leader a hypocrite, if the policies of such a leader are important to us.

However, with Trump, it's different. It is much more than a character issue to praise neo-Nazis and to refuse to condemn domestic terrorists, including those who plotted the kidnapping and murder of the Governor of Michigan. That's where character becomes policy, and that's why those who say that they may not like Trump's character but they tolerate it because of his policies are not only wrong, they are dangerous to this country.  

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11 minutes ago, Swithin said:

I understand that policy may be more important than character, up to a pointFor example, it used to be said that the French were more sophisticated than Americans, because they didn't care if their leaders had mistresses. That is a character issue that really has nothing to do with policy, and I agree that we don't need to care about such things, even if it makes the leader a hypocrite, if the policies of such a leader are important to us.

However, with Trump, it's different. It is much more than a character issue to praise neo-Nazis and to refuse to condemn domestic terrorists, including those who plotted the kidnapping and murder of the Governor of Michigan. That's where character becomes policy, and that's why those who say that they may not like Trump's character but they tolerate it because of his policies are not only wrong, they are dangerous to this country.  

I understand your "up to the point" POV and that is what I practice;  While I mainly focus on policy-positions,   sometimes a candidate's character issues are so despicable that I just can't vote for them.    They don't deserve my vote regardless of how much I might favor them over the others running on policy.     Trump clearly falls into that category.   

Millions of Americans that voted for Trump viewed it differently then  me and I'm not going to judge them harshly for doing so.   (but hey,  maybe that is only because Trump lost).

     

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1 hour ago, Swithin said:

I understand that policy may be more important than character, up to a pointFor example, it used to be said that the French were more sophisticated than Americans, because they didn't care if their leaders had mistresses. That is a character issue that really has nothing to do with policy, and I agree that we don't need to care about such things, even if it makes the leader a hypocrite, if the policies of such a leader are important to us.

However, with Trump, it's different. It is much more than a character issue to praise neo-Nazis and to refuse to condemn domestic terrorists, including those who plotted the kidnapping and murder of the Governor of Michigan. That's where character becomes policy, and that's why those who say that they may not like Trump's character but they tolerate it because of his policies are not only wrong, they are dangerous to this country.  

Anytime a nation's leader denigrates and tries to dehumanize segments of a country's population, it's a dangerous and frightening sign.

The Hitler example is still fresh in the minds of people and we've got it all on video.

If some people are okay with what trump did to and repeatedly said about American Muslims, Mexican Americans, black Americans, Asian Americans and native Americans--

because they don't belong to any of those groups--

Then that makes them guilty of perpetrating and believing that some Americans are better than others oh, that some Americans deserve equal rights and others don't.

In the Holocaust, German Jews and other groups Lost first their civil rights and then their lives.

That's how it started in the Third Reich and it ended with the Holocaust.

 

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Just saw the Sec. of State or some other election official from GA discussing the latest ballot counts (I think).  Biden is still about 10,000 ahead.  

However, most significant thing he said was that many, many people voted for Biden but then voted for the two Republican senatorial candidates among other GOP candidates.  Actually there were three major as Loeffler had another Republican running against her.

Vote counts for top three were is special race: Warnock (D) 32.9%; Loeffler (R-incumbent) 25.9%; Collins (R) 20%.  Collins was endorsed by Trump.  The Republican candidates got 45.9% of the vote compared to 32.9% for the Dem.

 

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I think is is "okay" for someone to vote for a candidate that lack values and has major character issues when that candidate has policy positions that are significantly more aligned with theirs verses the other parties' candidates.     As I have said before this is being pragmatic.       It is voting for one's interest. 

Cid and I have made this point over 20 times in the last year or so.     I get that you look at this differently.

In addition trying to guilt people that belong to that-other-party (or independents) into voting for one's party\candidate using shame and guilt is a very poor strategy.       This is also true for politicians trying to seek compromise with the other party  (this last comment relates to what Cid posted about the Jim Clyburn's comment):    Hey,   racist GOP party,    work with us Dems to pass legislation on immigration and education \ job training for inner-city residences.        I don't see Mitch calling Jim back! 

Biden understand all of this.     Note that one of the major criticisms of Biden by progressives during the Dem primaries was that Biden was too accommodating.    

I don't think it is the job of the democratic politician to go after the Trump supporters for their reasons for voting for him or for their lack of values, no.  That wouldn't be too bright.

But as you acknowledge I personally have a different view and there is no way that voting for a racist just because he lines your pockets or does something else for you that you like, is okay.  This is the 21st Century.  It is time to be more responsible than that.  There have to be other choices out there.

I put a lot of the blame for this on right wing propaganda.  It blinds the supporters to what they are actually enabling.  Trump did everything he could to pour gasoline on every racial divide fire. Fox News told people that this was not the case and Trump was simply being a patriot and a law and order President.  Fareed had a former Australian Prime Minister on this weekend and he said that in his country and in the UK they are trying to limit the outreach of Rupert Murdoch's propaganda machine.  Murdoch is helping to prop up extreme right wing governments.  Most of Trump supporters got ALL of their news from Murdoch.

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7 hours ago, Hibi said:

I'm half expecting him to leave the WH in shambles after he leaves......

And it's not too difficult to imagine someone in a law officer uniform with a bullhorn asking Trump

to come out peacefully as in a hostage situation. Better have a large supply of Big Macs ready.

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