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2020 Election....


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I don't start with the proposition that Americans are well-meaning, reasonable people who might

be persuaded by logic and facts. I start with the proposition that they're a bunch of ignorant dirtbags

who lack common sense. I give Donny credit for bringing that native idiocy out and putting it front

and center. Of course you expect most pols to talk up unity and no doubt they would like to see it,

but it's unlikely to happen. Biden is not going to convince the great majority of Trump voters to take

a second look. Most of these folks are dyed-in-the-wool dopes, but like a lot of things, after a while

one gets used to them.

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Georgia Voters Can Put an End to Mitch McConnell’s Grim Reaping

January runoff races could flip the Senate and prevent the majority leader from obstructing another Democratic presidency.

"......Unlike most states, Georgia allows for runoff elections when no candidate for the US Senate receives a majority of the votes in initial balloting. The state had two Senate elections on November 3—a regular contest for the seat held by Republican incumbent David Perdue and a special election for the seat held by appointed Republican incumbent Kelly Loeffler. The special election pitting Loeffler against the inspired candidacy of the Rev. Raphael Warnock is definitely headed to a runoff on January 5, and it now appears the regular election for the Perdue seat will go the same direction.

If both seats flip, as is a real possibility in the suddenly competitive state of Georgia, McConnell’s numbers no longer add up.....

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/georgia-senate-ossoff-warnock-mcconnell/

:unsure:

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22 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I understand your "up to the point" POV and that is what I practice;  While I mainly focus on policy-positions,   sometimes a candidate's character issues are so despicable that I just can't vote for them.    They don't deserve my vote regardless of how much I might favor them over the others running on policy.     Trump clearly falls into that category.   

Millions of Americans that voted for Trump viewed it differently then  me and I'm not going to judge them harshly for doing so.   (but hey,  maybe that is only because Trump lost).

     

Seems to me though, based mostly on the people I know who voted for Trump that they fall in three categories:

1.  Trump went after Obama, the black president with that "birther" nonsense and because Obama had that "Hussein" middle name.

2.  They liked his TV show and bought into his phony belligerent "tough guy"  act.

3.  He talked about illegal immigrants and other people they didn't like either using the same bar stool rhetoric  they spent hours at the bar using.

And then there's those,(who also like many democrats do too), voted for him because he was on the republican ticket.  

The reasons people vote for whom they do are as varied as the people doing the voting.

Sepiatone

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18 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I don't start with the proposition that Americans are well-meaning, reasonable people who might

be persuaded by logic and facts. I start with the proposition that they're a bunch of ignorant dirtbags

who lack common sense. I give Donny credit for bringing that native idiocy out and putting it front

and center. Of course you expect most pols to talk up unity and no doubt they would like to see it,

but it's unlikely to happen. Biden is not going to convince the great majority of Trump voters to take

a second look. Most of these folks are dyed-in-the-wool dopes, but like a lot of things, after a while

one gets used to them.

If I had said this ... ouch.

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6 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Seems to me though, based mostly on the people I know who voted for Trump that they fall in three categories:

1.  Trump went after Obama, the black president with that "birther" nonsense and because Obama had that "Hussein" middle name.

2.  They liked his TV show and bought into his phony belligerent "tough guy"  act.

3.  He talked about illegal immigrants and other people they didn't like either using the same bar stool rhetoric  they spent hours at the bar using.

And then there's those,(who also like many democrats do too), voted for him because he was on the republican ticket.  

The reasons people vote for whom they do are as varied as the people doing the voting.

Sepiatone

True but the one thing they all had in common was what they chose to overlook about him.

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On 11/9/2020 at 11:04 AM, Bogie56 said:

Obviously we or you or everybody has to work on it.  This sort of condoning racism and cruelty and ignorance of a deadly pandemic should not continue.

Now, obviously democratic politicians cannot say the things that I have just said.  I don't expect them too.  You can attract more bees with honey.  But this is just the plain ugly truth of what has been going on in America with the cult of Trump.   You term that as an insult.  I don't.  It's the truth.

I am So Sick of the voices saying 'You must give them time to process this, they're upset' and 'Dem's have to try to understand the magat mindset'...BULL   Why is is this a one-way street??  Why is everyone on earth expected to go on indulging this whiney little brat and his nanny/enablers?

Let's go back 4 years...after having every filthy lie and moscow mud thrown her way, HRC called king cheddar and stepped back...like a real life thinking, functioning adult.  No stamping her feet, or requiring constantly coddling.   Isn't it ironic that the one with two X chromosomes has been shown to be the only one of the two with balls???

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16 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Georgia Voters Can Put an End to Mitch McConnell’s Grim Reaping

January runoff races could flip the Senate and prevent the majority leader from obstructing another Democratic presidency.

"......Unlike most states, Georgia allows for runoff elections when no candidate for the US Senate receives a majority of the votes in initial balloting. The state had two Senate elections on November 3—a regular contest for the seat held by Republican incumbent David Perdue and a special election for the seat held by appointed Republican incumbent Kelly Loeffler. The special election pitting Loeffler against the inspired candidacy of the Rev. Raphael Warnock is definitely headed to a runoff on January 5, and it now appears the regular election for the Perdue seat will go the same direction.

If both seats flip, as is a real possibility in the suddenly competitive state of Georgia, McConnell’s numbers no longer add up.....

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/georgia-senate-ossoff-warnock-mcconnell/

:unsure:

We can all hope the two seats flip, but I just don't see even one of them flipping.  The most likely would appear to be Loeffler, but she and the other Republican candidate got 46% to 33% for Warnock.  There were about a dozen candidates on the ballot to account for the differences.  If Ossoff was going to win, he would have.  Hope I am wrong.  The Dems will have to work hard to get their voters out in this election..

1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

Seems to me though, based mostly on the people I know who voted for Trump that they fall in three categories:

1.  Trump went after Obama, the black president with that "birther" nonsense and because Obama had that "Hussein" middle name.

2.  They liked his TV show and bought into his phony belligerent "tough guy"  act.

3.  He talked about illegal immigrants and other people they didn't like either using the same bar stool rhetoric  they spent hours at the bar using.

[4.] And then there's those,(who also like many democrats do too), voted for him because he was on the republican ticket.  

The reasons people vote for whom they do are as varied as the people doing the voting.

Sepiatone

You state 3 categories and then give 4.  IMO, number 4 is more significant than any of the others.  There are also the people associated with corporations and big businesses, even the rank and file employees, small businesses, older people looking to their pensions and 401(k)'s for income and many others.  Not to mention those that are turned off by the "progressive" or "socialist" pronouncements.

Offend these people or fail to get them to cooperate, and Dems. lose again.  Biden knows this.

36 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:
 
 
Z-2ftHoZ_bigger.png
 
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum

GOPers rejected democracy when they started to gerrymander districts and establish voter suppression procedures on a huge scale.  While the Dems also used these tactics in the past (maybe even now), it was relatively minor compared to what the GOPers have done.

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41 minutes ago, ElCid said:

We can all hope the two seats flip, but I just don't see even one of them flipping.  The most likely would appear to be Loeffler, but she and the other Republican candidate got 46% to 33% for Warnock.  There were about a dozen candidates on the ballot to account for the differences.  If Ossoff was going to win, he would have.  Hope I am wrong.  The Dems will have to work hard to get their voters out in this election..

Ossoff might be able to pull it off.   All depends on voter turnout.

 

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2 hours ago, shutoo said:

I am So Sick of the voices saying 'You must give them time to process this, they're upset' and 'Dem's have to try to understand the magat mindset'...BULL   Why is is this a one-way street??  Why is everyone on earth expected to go on indulging this whiney little brat and his nanny/enablers?

Let's go back 4 years...after having every filthy lie and moscow mud thrown her way, HRC called king cheddar and stepped back...like a real life thinking, functioning adult.  No stamping her feet, or requiring constantly coddling.   Isn't it ironic that the one with two X chromosomes has been shown to be the only one of the two with balls???

 Male white privilege on steroids for a rich white man.....

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2 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Seems to me though, based mostly on the people I know who voted for Trump that they fall in three categories:

1.  Trump went after Obama, the black president with that "birther" nonsense and because Obama had that "Hussein" middle name.

2.  They liked his TV show and bought into his phony belligerent "tough guy"  act.

3.  He talked about illegal immigrants and other people they didn't like either using the same bar stool rhetoric  they spent hours at the bar using.

And then there's those,(who also like many democrats do too), voted for him because he was on the republican ticket.  

The reasons people vote for whom they do are as varied as the people doing the voting.

Sepiatone

 

2 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

True but the one thing they all had in common was what they chose to overlook about him.

The one thing they all had in common was they chose to stroke their own personal ego in refusing to admit to themselves that trump was not qualified for the highest office in the land.

They chose to put their own selfish self-gratifying interest ahead of the betterment and survival of the National Security of the United States of America.

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I think if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016, she would face a very tough election in 2020 (minus Covid 19). The Democratic Party in power for 16 years?...not likely.

Look what happened to George H. W. Bush in 1992.

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There are still people on left wing websites who are trying to figure out how they can persuade Trump

voters to come over to their side. They actually think they can do this. Most Trumpies are mfing cretins.

Ain't going to happen.

 

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48 minutes ago, noah80 said:

I think if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016, she would face a very tough election in 2020 (minus Covid 19). The Democratic Party in power for 16 years?...not likely.

Look what happened to George H. W. Bush in 1992.

George H.W. Bush thought he could ride the Gulf War victory to a second term.  He ignored the weak economy in the US.  That is why Clinton's "It's the economy, stupid" resonated with so many voters.

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22 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

There are still people on left wing websites who are trying to figure out how they can persuade Trump

voters to come over to their side. They actually think they can do this. Most Trumpies are mfing cretins.

Ain't going to happen.

 

There is a difference between left wing and Democratic.  There are probably many, many thousands of Republican leaning voters who could be persuaded to join with Democrats on many issues.  They could also vote for Dem candidates.  But, it will take work, compromise and a great sales campaign.  Look at the number who voted against Trump, but then voted for GOPers on the downstream ballots.

"Trumpies are mfing cretins."  BUT, rationale thinking Dems are talking about the vast number of Republicans and Republican leaning voters who are not "mfing cretins."

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On 11/9/2020 at 4:49 PM, Vautrin said:

I don't start with the proposition that Americans are well-meaning, reasonable people who might

be persuaded by logic and facts. I start with the proposition that they're a bunch of ignorant dirtbags

who lack common sense. I give Donny credit for bringing that native idiocy out and putting it front

and center. Of course you expect most pols to talk up unity and no doubt they would like to see it,

but it's unlikely to happen. Biden is not going to convince the great majority of Trump voters to take

a second look. Most of these folks are dyed-in-the-wool dopes, but like a lot of things, after a while

one gets used to them.

Vautrin said:  "Americans are....a bunch of ignorant dirtbags  who lack common sense."

At least they bother to vote.

Most people who VOTE are not dopes, although many are.  From your statement it appears that you believe all of those who votef for Biden are also "a bunch of ignorant dirtbags  who lack common sense."What Biden and the Dems have to do is find common ground without driving Republican leaning voters away.  Bill Clinton did it twice.  Even Obama did it on a national level.

The thing is that voters have things they believe in and issues.  Many (most?) times they revolve around money issues or family issues.

If you have such a low opinion of Americans, why don't you move to another country?

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49 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

There are still people on left wing websites who are trying to figure out how they can persuade Trump

voters to come over to their side. They actually think they can do this. Most Trumpies are mfing cretins.

Ain't going to happen.

 

Sadly, most of them are.

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14 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Vautrin said:  "Americans are....a bunch of ignorant dirtbags  who lack common sense."

At least they bother to vote.

Most people who VOTE are not dopes, although many are.  From your statement it appears that you believe all of those who votef for Biden are also "a bunch of ignorant dirtbags  who lack common sense."What Biden and the Dems have to do is find common ground without driving Republican leaning voters away.  Bill Clinton did it twice.  Even Obama did it on a national level.

The thing is that voters have things they believe in and issues.  Many (most?) times they revolve around money issues or family issues.

If you have such a low opinion of Americans, why don't you move to another country?

He lives here. (or at least he did) LOL.

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2 hours ago, ElCid said:

There is a difference between left wing and Democratic.  There are probably many, many thousands of Republican leaning voters who could be persuaded to join with Democrats on many issues.  They could also vote for Dem candidates.  But, it will take work, compromise and a great sales campaign.  Look at the number who voted against Trump, but then voted for GOPers on the downstream ballots.

"Trumpies are mfing cretins."  BUT, rationale thinking Dems are talking about the vast number of Republicans and Republican leaning voters who are not "mfing cretins."

It also goes for just plain liberal Democrats. They've been trying to persuade Republicans for years to "see the

light." Not going to happen in significant numbers. Pols have to remain polite, I don't. 

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

George H.W. Bush thought he could ride the Gulf War victory to a second term.  He ignored the weak economy in the US.  That is why Clinton's "It's the economy, stupid" resonated with so many voters.

I guess it is possible to have power for 16 years (FDR 1932 election to 1944 election ( partly due to World War II)   to Truman 1948 election even though the press didn't think Truman was going to win in 1948)

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2 hours ago, ElCid said:

Vautrin said:  "Americans are....a bunch of ignorant dirtbags  who lack common sense."

At least they bother to vote.

Most people who VOTE are not dopes, although many are.  From your statement it appears that you believe all of those who votef for Biden are also "a bunch of ignorant dirtbags  who lack common sense."What Biden and the Dems have to do is find common ground without driving Republican leaning voters away.  Bill Clinton did it twice.  Even Obama did it on a national level.

The thing is that voters have things they believe in and issues.  Many (most?) times they revolve around money issues or family issues.

If you have such a low opinion of Americans, why don't you move to another country?

I was just talking about those who voted for Trump. There was a bit of election time hyperbole, but I stand by the

main thrust of my point. In general Americans are too jingoistic, militaristic, imperialistic, and religious for my

taste. So while I live here physically mentally I try not to. There is America as a political entity and then there is

America as just a place to live, and in the latter use of the word, it's not a bad place to live.

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