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2020 Election....


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2 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I was just talking about those who voted for Trump. There was a bit of election time hyperbole, but I stand by the

main thrust of my point. In general Americans are too jingoistic, militaristic, imperialistic, and religious for my

taste. So while I live here physically mentally I try not to. There is America as a political entity and then there is

America as just a place to live, and in the latter use of the word, it's not a bad place to live.

I would say that most of my friends and relatives in America are of this view as well.

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7 hours ago, Vautrin said:

There are still people on left wing websites who are trying to figure out how they can persuade Trump

voters to come over to their side. They actually think they can do this. Most Trumpies are mfing cretins.

Ain't going to happen.

 

 It's not really going to be a fair argument or an academic discussion when the person you're talking to is wearing a Hawaiian shirt and heavily armed with an AK-47.

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If that were true, the 1% wouldn't exist.  There wouldn't be a FORTUNE 400 or any of that crap.  Nor an outcry to reduce or eliminate the estate and capital gains taxes. 

And nobody would make a living working at any of the many social service agencies.  And there would also be no such thing as different tax brackets. 

And since it seems none of THIS is happening----

socialism

 noun

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so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm  \

Definition of socialism

 

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
 
Then the U.S. really isn't all that socialist.
Sepiatone
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15 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

If that were true, the 1% wouldn't exist.  There wouldn't be a FORTUNE 400 or any of that crap.  Nor an outcry to reduce or eliminate the estate and capital gains taxes. 

And nobody would make a living working at any of the many social service agencies.  And there would also be no such thing as different tax brackets. 

And since it seems none of THIS is happening----

socialism

 noun

To save this word, you'll need to log in.

 
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm  \

Definition of socialism

 

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
 
Then the U.S. really isn't all that socialist.
Sepiatone

Democratic socialism is not about the State owning all property.  And besides the video is just demonstrating that the blue states give the red states 200 billion a year and also cede them power.   That's not very good business.

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2 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

America is as socialist as they come.  All of its rich States subsidize the poor ones and get squat in return.  That is not capitalism.

OK, I went and actually listened to most of what Olbermann said.  He never said where the figures come from re: how much each state pays in vs. what it gets from Federal government.

This is an old, old, old discussion that goes back to the 50's or 60's.  It began with the Southern states, but there are others as well.  Most of this money going "south" was created by the Democrats going back to FDR.  Another factor is that military facilities are included in these figures.  Every state that Olbermann mentioned has at least one military base and other Federal facilities.  Then add in all the people receiving Medicare, Medicaid and federal assistance money.  Then add in all the people receiving Social Security, SSI, military and federal retirement, etc.

Military and other Federal facilities are located in the South because vast swaths of cheap land were available.  It also has a climate that permits more training days per year than the North.  Not to mention that more National Guard and Reserve units are located in the South because it is easier to recruit and retain personnel there.

This is NOT socialism.  It is merely a reflection of where most poor people live, where Federal facilities are located and where many Northerners retire to.  And a reflection of where all the taxable money is - The North.

Once again, Olbermann and Bogie56 have displayed a lack of knowledge about America.

One thing that impressed me in watching the election returns is comparatively how some of the northern states now have fewer electoral votes than Southern and Western states because of populations changing.

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31 minutes ago, ElCid said:

OK, I went and actually listened to most of what Olbermann said.  He never said where the figures come from re: how much each state pays in vs. what it gets from Federal government.

 

Well you should have listened to ALL of it because he did say how much more blue states were paying.  And I think you are picking on some words here and there for your argument and disregarding the big picture which is he is saying blue states are getting a raw deal in that they pay more, they are in the majority and yet time and again the minority rules.  That's reality.  Maybe you are happy with that reality but Olberman is entitled to his opinion and that doesn't make him any less knowledgable about how America works that you.  Let's not start the insults flying.

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38 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

Well you should have listened to ALL of it because he did say how much more blue states were paying.  And I think you are picking on some words here and there for your argument and disregarding the big picture which is he is saying blue states are getting a raw deal in that they pay more, they are in the majority and yet time and again the minority rules.  That's reality.  Maybe you are happy with that reality but Olberman is entitled to his opinion and that doesn't make him any less knowledgable about how America works that you.  Let's not start the insults flying.

Governor Cuomo made that point often, in his daily Covid-19 briefings, after Moscow Mitch said that Covid was a blue state problem. Cuomo gave the figures. I actually think that the blue states should organize boycotts of some of the products of red states, like Kentucky Bourbon, Idaho potatoes, etc. Yes, I know they say such boycotts hurt "innocent" people, but that's what makes boycotts effective. If in retaliation they want to boycott Wall Street or our banks,  we can live with that.

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But Trump says 5 dead people voted in Georgia !!

 

 
 
P1zS0T0G_bigger.jpg
 
Wednesday morning update on Biden's leads:
AZ: 13K
GA: 14K
NV: 37K
PA: 48K
He leads Trump nationally by over 5.1 million and rising.
Biden holds the largest vote share (50.8%) for a challenger since FDR in 1932. This is not a close race and Biden's lead will continue to grow.
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_uB2htgc_bigger.png
 
This is impressive, put-in-the-hours reporting. The New York Times called Democratic and Republican election officials in every state. Not one of them reported any voter fraud or systemic irregularities.
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Election was fair and fraud free, international observers invited by the State Department report - but they warn Trump supporters tried to intimidate poll counters 

35555274-0-image-a-6_1605104696052.jpg

An internal group invited by the State Department to observe the 2020 election released a report Friday indicating they saw no instances of voter fraud or irregularities contradictory to Donald Trump's claims.

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The news of no voter fraud should be welcomed by ALL Americans.   It is Trump who is now trying to cast doubt on America's democracy and in doing so make it a joke around the world.  Republicans are selfishly helping that damaging narrative.

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6 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

The news of no voter fraud should be welcomed by ALL Americans.   It is Trump who is now trying to cast doubt on America's democracy and in doing so make it a joke around the world.  Republicans are selfishly helping that damaging narrative.

No election,  with this many people voting,  has no fraud,  as in zero.   E.g. someone submits a mail in ballot for a dead person or signs a ballot for someone else (which I almost did since my wife was in Italy but decided not to since I didn't wish to commit fraud).     

Such sloppy use of language (by the media,  not you),  is what leads to non-acceptance of results and mindless conspiracy theories.  

To me the correct statement is;  there was an insignificant amount of voter fraud that had zero impact to a state's outcome (i.e.  which candidate had the most votes).

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bogie56 said:

But Trump says 5 dead people voted in Georgia !!

 

 
 
P1zS0T0G_bigger.jpg
 
Wednesday morning update on Biden's leads:
AZ: 13K
GA: 14K
NV: 37K
PA: 48K
He leads Trump nationally by over 5.1 million and rising.
Biden holds the largest vote share (50.8%) for a challenger since FDR in 1932. This is not a close race and Biden's lead will continue to grow.

That is "accurate," BUT note the chart below for 1992:  Clinton-Bush-Perot.  Clinton got 370 EC votes.  Combined with Ross Perot, the challengers got 61.9% of the vote.  Trump still got 70,000,000+ votes, second highest number of votes for ANY presidential candidate in US History.  Just as importantly, more Republicans won contested races for Federal and state elections.

Assuming Biden takes AZ and GA, as well as PA, but loses NC, he will have 306 EC votes and that is what counts.  Trump will end up with 232.

Electoral vote 370 168 0
States carried 32 + DC 18 0
Popular vote 44,909,889 39,104,550 19,743,821
Percentage 43.0% 37.4% 18.9%
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1 hour ago, Bogie56 said:
_uB2htgc_bigger.png
 
This is impressive, put-in-the-hours reporting. The New York Times called Democratic and Republican election officials in every state. Not one of them reported any voter fraud or systemic irregularities.

I agree that this is good news, but let's be fair.  The media is asking the officials if they did their jobs correctly.

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57 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

No election,  with this many people voting,  has no fraud,  as in zero.   E.g. someone submits a mail in ballot for a dead person or signs a ballot for someone else (which I almost did since my wife was in Italy but decided not to since I didn't wish to commit fraud).     

Such sloppy use of language (by the media,  not you),  is what leads to non-acceptance of results and mindless conspiracy theories.  

To me the correct statement is;  there was an insignificant amount of voter fraud that had zero impact to a state's outcome (i.e.  which candidate had the most votes).

 

 

 

 

You are correct, but as I posted to Bogie, this is asking the election officials if they did their jobs correctly.  

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16 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

 It's not really going to be a fair argument or an academic discussion when the person you're talking to is wearing a Hawaiian shirt and heavily armed with an AK-47.

I kind of like Hawaiian shirts, though I don't own any myself. There was a long AP article in the paper the

other day talking about the rural v. urban divide in NC, which holds true for a lot of states. Of course the

Dems were wondering how they could reach these rural voters, maybe with pocketbook issues. Forget it.

The great majority of these idiots want to go back to the 1950s and will believe just about any conspiracy

theory that comes down the pike, however bizarre and irrational. Time to cut bait on these fools.

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2 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I kind of like Hawaiian shirts, though I don't own any myself. There was a long AP article in the paper the

other day talking about the rural v. urban divide in NC, which holds true for a lot of states. Of course the

Dems were wondering how they could reach these rural voters, maybe with pocketbook issues. Forget it.

The great majority of these idiots want to go back to the 1950s and will believe just about any conspiracy

theory that comes down the pike, however bizarre and irrational. Time to cut bait on these fools.

And shove higher education down the throats of their chillun.

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7 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I kind of like Hawaiian shirts, though I don't own any myself. There was a long AP article in the paper the

other day talking about the rural v. urban divide in NC, which holds true for a lot of states. Of course the

Dems were wondering how they could reach these rural voters, maybe with pocketbook issues. Forget it.

The great majority of these idiots want to go back to the 1950s and will believe just about any conspiracy

theory that comes down the pike, however bizarre and irrational. Time to cut bait on these fools.

Yoou're beginning to sound as bad as Nipper and Jakie - but from the other side.

Incidentally, I live in what is considered a rural area and there are a lot of people out here who the Dems could reach with the right position on the right issues.  Especially younger voters.

2 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

And shove higher education down the throats of their chillun.

What the F does this mean?

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

No election,  with this many people voting,  has no fraud,  as in zero.   E.g. someone submits a mail in ballot for a dead person or signs a ballot for someone else (which I almost did since my wife was in Italy but decided not to since I didn't wish to commit fraud).     

Such sloppy use of language (by the media,  not you),  is what leads to non-acceptance of results and mindless conspiracy theories.  

To me the correct statement is;  there was an insignificant amount of voter fraud that had zero impact to a state's outcome (i.e.  which candidate had the most votes).

This may be splitting hairs but when they do find evidence of fraud or malfeasance those votes are not counted.  The votes are scrutinized for names of people who are dead, etc.  So I repeat they have found n evidence of fraud - in the votes.

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