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2020 Election....


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After Jan 20, The Electoral Count Act of 1887 needs to be REPEALED.  Or at least taken to the Supreme Court to be overturned.  It was never intended to be used as the Trumpists and  GOPers are intending to use it.  It was meant to be used if two competing set of electors showed up to vote with both being "certified."  Only one set of certified electors showed up to vote in each state/territory.

As a minimum, it should be changed to require at least 33% vote to challenge voting.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wait, Wait, Don't Inaugurate: Why The U.S. Takes So Long To Change Presidents

"President Trump's refusal to concede and the delayed transition to the administration of President-elect Joe Biden have raised many questions about the transfer of power in our system.

One in particular has long been asked: Why do we wait until the latter part of January to swear in a president we elect in November? Put another way: How is it that the Brits can have a newly elected prime minister meeting with the queen to form a new government within a day or two, but we need 10 or 11 weeks to install a new crew?

Well, since you asked, our transfer of power originally took much longer. It was initially set for March 4, though in 1789 a bad winter storm delayed the swearing-in of George Washington until April. Thereafter, the early March mandate was respected for nearly 150 years.

A bad winter was a major obstacle in 1789 because so much of the system literally ran on horsepower.........

..........In 2004, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, better known as the 9/11 Commission, concluded that the five-week struggle to determine the winner of the 2000 presidential election weakened the ability of the U.S. to detect and deter the plotters of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001...........

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/27/936929278/wait-wait-dont-inaugurate-why-the-u-s-takes-so-long-to-change-presidents?fbclid=IwAR2d0owAjbd6aUm-LfbLhG0gP9-jT0XCJI1_rKYXMRsNAlnUUxp3vLjltQ8

:huh:

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12 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

Pence Said to Have Told Trump He Lacks Power to Change Election Result

A day before he presides over a joint session of Congress to ratify Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory, the vice president tried to lower the president’s expectations while seeking ways to mollify him.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/us/politics/pence-trump-election-results.html

Pence is not thinking solely of what he needs to do to win the GOP nomination in 2024.  As the election in GA showed, the Trump base is only good if Trump is on the ticket.

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Just now CBS 1-6-2021 1:15 PM

House and Senate move to debate certification of Arizona Electoral votes.

This is only a formality / ceremonial (or "the day of like pulling teeth". :wacko:)

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5 hours ago, ElCid said:

Pence is not thinking solely of what he needs to do to win the GOP nomination in 2024.  As the election in GA showed, the Trump base is only good if Trump is on the ticket.

Well and even in the 2020 election for President in GA the Trump base wasn't good-enough.

I get the feeling Trump is going to end up like this:

 

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As of a few minutes ago, both the House and Senate were in recess while the Capitol is being taken over by Trump supporters.  Pence may have been evacuated from the buildings.   The process may well have come to a complete halt and will have to be resumed at some point in the future.

Will the GOPers object to each state then as well?

I heard McConnell's speech and was impressed with about 90% of it.  Too bad his fellow GOPers won't pay attention to it.

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11 minutes ago, ElCid said:

As of a few minutes ago, both the House and Senate were in recess while the Capitol is being taken over by Trump supporters.  Pence may have been evacuated from the buildings.   The process may well have come to a complete halt and will have to be resumed at some point in the future.

Will the GOPers object to each state then as well?

I heard McConnell's speech and was impressed with about 90% of it.  Too bad his fellow GOPers won't pay attention to it.

My understanding is that a majority of Republican Senators will follow McConnell's leadership.   

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2 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

My understanding is that a majority of Republican Senators will follow McConnell's leadership.   

But not enough.

 Right now he needs to tell everyone of them:  IT ENDS NOW; NO MORE OBJECTIONS.

And anyone who objects should be severely  punished.

Same goes for McCarthy in the House.

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35 minutes ago, ElCid said:

As of a few minutes ago, both the House and Senate were in recess while the Capitol is being taken over by Trump supporters.  Pence may have been evacuated from the buildings.   The process may well have come to a complete halt and will have to be resumed at some point in the future.

Will the GOPers object to each state then as well?

I heard McConnell's speech and was impressed with about 90% of it.  Too bad his fellow GOPers won't pay attention to it.

I wonder what's going to happen with this SH-T SHOW now? Will they back down after this uprising? This is horrible. The whole world is watching too. How low we have sunk to have this happen. :(

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1 minute ago, Hibi said:

I wonder what's going to happen with this SH-T SHOW now? Will they back down after this uprising? This is horrible. The whole world is watching too. How low we have sunk to have this happen. :(

They have tasted blood and enjoyed it.  This will continue as long as Trump encourages them - for years probably.  The problem is that there are pockets of devout believers who will do whatever they think will please him.  They also will do whatever to make themselves feel more important or more significant.  

This is a sad and tragic day for America and democracy everywhere.  Washington is no longer a "shining city on the hill."

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5 minutes ago, Hibi said:

I wonder what's going to happen with this SH-T SHOW now? Will they back down after this uprising? This is horrible. The whole world is watching too. How low we have sunk to have this happen. :(

For evermore, the U.S. has lost any leverage it had around the world to convince people of the benefits of democracy, and the peaceful transition of governments.

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19 minutes ago, ElCid said:

They have tasted blood and enjoyed it.  This will continue as long as Trump encourages them - for years probably.  The problem is that there are pockets of devout believers who will do whatever they think will please him.  They also will do whatever to make themselves feel more important or more significant.  

This is a sad and tragic day for America and democracy everywhere.  Washington is no longer a "shining city on the hill."

That's for sure!  I wonder if this will spread across the country???

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19 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

For evermore, the U.S. has lost any leverage it had around the world to convince people of the benefits of democracy, and the peaceful transition of governments.

No kidding!

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29 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

For evermore, the U.S. has lost any leverage it had around the world to convince people of the benefits of democracy, and the peaceful transition of governments.

Sorry but again,  I have the opposite POV.      The institutions held firm.   Democracy prevailed.     Thus the lesson here is if a country has strong institutions,  people that try to circumvent these institutions will fail.     They will be arrested and their leader will not gain power but instead lose most of the creditability and any future chance to gain power again.

Of course there were violent protesters but overall the transition of government was 99.9% peaceful.    

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3 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Sorry but again,  I have the opposite POV.      The institutions held firm.   Democracy prevailed.     Thus the lesson here is if a country has strong institutions,  people that try to circumvent these institutions will fail.     They will be arrested and their leader will not gain power but instead lose most of the creditability and any future chance to gain power again.

Of course there were violent protesters but overall the transition of government was 99.9% peaceful.    

It hasn't held yet.   And it's hanging by a thread.  And I think it's too early to write off Trump.   The only reason this nonsense is going on with the electoral count is that those Republicans want his base's support in the future.

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3 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

It hasn't held yet.   And it's hanging by a thread.  And I think it's too early to write off Trump.   The only reason this nonsense is going on with the electoral count is that those Republicans want his base's support in the future.

Nothing is hanging by a thread as it relates to Biden becoming President in a few more weeks.    Congress will reconvene,  and Pence will declare Biden the next President.    In fact it might speed it up since some GOP members of Congress have now said they will no longer challenge the other battleground states.       

Yes, it might be too early to write off Trump,   but for now I'm sticking to my prediction.     Might be wishful thinking,  but I need some of that today!

 

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26 minutes ago, Hibi said:

That's for sure!  I wonder if this will spread across the country???

Wouldn't doubt it.  Will especially be repeated whenever Republicans lose control of state governments.  Wouldn't surprise me that there are plans for doing it in Georgia.

9 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Sorry but again,  I have the opposite POV.      The institutions held firm.   Democracy prevailed.     Thus the lesson here is if a country has strong institutions,  people that try to circumvent these institutions will fail.     They will be arrested and their leader will not gain power but instead lose most of the creditability and any future chance to gain power again.

Of course there were violent protesters but overall the transition of government was 99.9% peaceful.    

You just don't understand the significance of what is happening.  There has been no transition of government yet.  Will it happen, yes.  But the die has been cast and the US will NEVER be the same again.

I don't think you will ever understand.

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

Wouldn't doubt it.  Will especially be repeated whenever Republicans lose control of state governments.  Wouldn't surprise me that there are plans for doing it in Georgia.

You just don't understand the significance of what is happening.  There has been no transition of government yet.  Will it happen, yes.  But the die has been cast and the US will NEVER be the same again.

I don't think you will ever understand.

You're 100% correct that I will never accept your over paranoid POV.       Yes,  the USA will never be the same again.

It will be stronger.

 

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Just now, jamesjazzguitar said:

You're 100% correct that I will never accept you're over paranoid POV.       Yes,  the USA will never be the same again.

It will be stronger.

 

I'd like to agree, but I just heard 3 different callers, all Trump supporters, (one in NY, one in SC, one in TX) phone in to C-SPANs coverage, repeating election conspiracies, stating that the protesters that broke in today were really antifa in Trump supporters' clothing, and on and on.  They will never be convinced otherwise, even when they're watching it unfold live on TV before their eyes.

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2 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

I'd like to agree, but I just heard 3 different callers, all Trump supporters, (one in NY, one in SC, one in TX) phone in to C-SPANs coverage, repeating election conspiracies, stating that the protesters that broke in today were really antifa in Trump supporters' clothing, and on and on.  They will never be convinced otherwise, even when they're watching it unfold live on TV before their eyes.

And this is where they get this from.  Again, from the NYT live blog...

  • Catie Edmondson

    Congressional Correspondent

    For those wondering if this stunning series of events will break the chokehold Trump has on Republicans in Washington, this interview transmitted by the Capitol Hill pool reporters with Senator Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming, who supported the objection efforts, might be enlightening:

    “I hope it’s not Trump supporters that are involved in the mayhem. In my previous experience with these Trump supporters, they have been peaceful demonstrators, happy people, very patriotic, pro-America, and I feel like other forces like Antifa were advocating violence. So if now that has changed, I will be heartbroken.”

  • (I will note that this interview was conducted in the beginning of the chaos as senators were first getting evacuated – but it still at that point was pretty clear who the protesters were.)

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3 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

I'd like to agree, but I just heard 3 different callers, all Trump supporters, (one in NY, one in SC, one in TX) phone in to C-SPANs coverage, repeating election conspiracies, stating that the protesters that broke in today were really antifa in Trump supporters' clothing, and on and on.  They will never be convinced otherwise, even when they're watching it unfold live on TV before their eyes.

There will not be the massive insurrection type actions in the states seen today in DC, but they have been emboldened to take similar actions. 

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