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Gone with the Wind…GONE!


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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

What is going on here is capitalism,  which to many is the #1 American value.

I like how you are using capitalism against the conservatives who practice racism. 

For decades GONE WITH THE WIND has been championed by white racists because they knew it was a piece of anti-black propaganda that suited their own ugly ulterior motives-- which was to continue to promote racism. And for decades, they could get away with glorifying the film and its inappropriate message. But now they can't, and they're angry. Because the jig's up.

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23 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

So you disagree with the activist that are pushing content owners to NOT lease their works UNLESS they are shown along with some historical-educational programming.

I.e. it is the activist that need to be educated.      Hey,  I agree with this but politically you do understand that we are siding with the conservative \ right wing POV here.

 

No, that's NOT exactly what I was sayin' up there. And NOOOO, I'm not "siding with conservatives / the right wing POV here", either.

What I am doing is "siding" with my OWN centrist convictions here., and 'cause maybe you've never realized this before, but it's we Centrists in the world who in general seem to possess just a little more of the ability to look at various issues and see that many more times than not the "all of nothing" mindset of the polarized political extremes, BOTH the Left AND the Right, are the ones who are usually SO damn myopic that they're unable to clearly see and take a more circumspect view of issues.

(...in other words, one does NOT have to be a damn "Rightie" to see that the Left is sometimes full of crap TOO, and that in many cases, TOO many damn cases in my view, both political extremes will utilize  simple-minded  and overly simplified rhetoric in order to "dumb down" the populace in order to press their own little damn agendas)

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And one more comment here...

Let us not forget that the damn Righties have THEIR own version of "political correctness" TOO, and THIS would be MOST evident whenever those idiots begin their perverse and false boasting that their political mindset and positions make them "more or better real Americans", and to NOT fall into line with 'em somehow shows how little one loves their country.

Now THERE'S ya a whole big crock of BS and "PC" right THERE!

(...but I know you know this) 

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4 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

The streaming service pledged to eventually bring the film back “with a discussion of its historical context”

More like a harangue.  Is there really anybody interested in watching GWTW who doesn't know the historical context?

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Just now, Dargo said:

And one more comment here...

Les up not forget that the damn Righties have THEIR own version of "political correctness" TOO, and THIS would be MOST evident whenever those idiots begin their perverse boasting that their political mindset and positions make them "more or better real Americans".

(...but I know you know that) 

Dargo,

We have two strands of American history going on. The older strand is backward and preserves ignorance. The newer strand is progressive and forward-moving.

The proponents of the older strand are dying out but before they go, they are determined to teach their misogyny and hatred to their offspring. That is their legacy. It's a sad legacy.

We also have what I call lapsed liberals in America. Ones who had been falling in with the conservatives. But I think recent events have helped them wake up.

There is no reason why we can't have a more woke America. 

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Then there is another type of  "education" based on what I find to be an unfounded fear:   that  due to the PC cancel culture movies,  music, and other works will be 'removed' from the culture. 

But they are being removed from culture, starting with the statues.

Cancel culture is basically the new Hollywood Blacklist, and it never ceases to amaze me that the people who speak most vocally against the first blacklist are the ones cheering on the current one.

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

It was because I understand Christopher Columbus was ALSO known for his inability to pronounce the letter 'r'.

Do they have a Kay Fwanics statue in Boston?

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4 minutes ago, Fedya said:

But they are being removed from culture, starting with the statues.

Let me expand on this a bit, as it relates to movies.

This past Christmas, there were a pair of parallel campaigns, one against the Hallmark Channel and one against the song "Baby It's Cold Outside".  The latter, in particular, is pernicious considering that when the song had its big published splash in Neptune's Daughter, there are two versions of it, one flipping the traditional gender roles and having Red Skelton not wanting to stay and Betty Garrett telling him it's cold outside.  But facts don't matter to these people.

As for the Hallmark Channel movies, they're formulaic and not something I'm interested in, but one thing I've learned from a romance writer friend of mine is that there are a lot of people, women especially, who have some "interesting" sexual fantasies, and the Hallmark Channel Christmas movies are basically a filmed (and milder, I suppose) version of the genre, giving a certain demographic (mostly white middle- to upper-middle-class women) what they want.  But this isn't what the "woke" or "PC" want, so they must not be allowed to have it.  It must be destroyed.

And that's why "woke" culture is so dangerous, because it's really about "you can only have what we approve of".  Calling themselves "tolerant" is a classic motte and bailey strategy.

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23 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Dargo,

We have two strands of American history going on. The older strand is backward and preserves ignorance. The newer strand is progressive and forward-moving.

The proponents of the older strand are dying out but before they go, they are determined to teach their misogyny and hatred to their offspring. That is their legacy. It's a sad legacy.

We also have what I call lapsed liberals in America. Ones who had been falling in with the conservatives. But I think recent events have helped them wake up.

There is no reason why we can't have a more woke America. 

Yes, I agree with SOME parts of your comments here TB, but does it really follow that to KNOW history that it automatically puts a limit on one's ability to BE "woke"?

And with "woke" of course being a reasonably new word meaning "AWARE" and/or "conscious of ".

And sorry, but I'll never be "aware" or "conscious of" or understand how knowing the past can be a "negative", and as if knowing how people and cultures have thought in the past, rightly OR wrongly, could "warp" the next generation.

(...well once again, UNLESS this information comes solely courtesy to said next generation from some damn political extremist, Left OR Right...aah, but I think you're "woke" to how I feel about THOSE idiots here now, aren't ya) ;)

LOL

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Loose talk about banning GWTW from TCM is the tip of a slippery slope in which a huge succession of other films could be banned because they are not deemed to be politically correct by today's standards. If you ban GWTW then why not ban The Birth of a Nation, a milestone in film history, because it is far more blatantly racist than anything to be found in the Selznick production. And , while we're at it, let's ban any film with insulting racial black stereotypes in them such as the likes that Step 'N Fetchit played.

And why stop at black stereotypes? Let's go after those WW2 films and their portraits of Germans and Japanese. Let's go after westerns like DeMille's The Plainsman and other westerns with their grunting Indian stereotypes killing/torturing white captives. And so it goes.

For those sensitive to the false image of the antebellum South that GWTW presents then an historical commentary accompanying it would not be inappropriate. Speaking for myself I wouldn't particularly desire it but it's a small compromise if it satisfies some and keeps this film (along with ALL the others that are racially insensitive and of their time) still coming on TCM, even if it means that some may be broadcast in a late evening/early morning time slot.

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I haven't watched GWTW in over 30 years, probably longer.   I did read the book twice while in high school and college.   Regardless, I see no reason for TCM to not show it or for outlets to not sell it.

If we start trying to remove movies, TV shows, books, etc. that portray questionable stories or demean people and so forth, then we might as well shut down the entertainment and publishing industries.  Then we can start having book, DVD, film, etc. burnings.  

It is censorship, pure and simple.

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5 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

From what I read, the disappearance is only temporary.  From the second paragraph of the NY Times article:

The streaming service pledged to eventually bring the film back “with a discussion of its historical context” while denouncing its racial missteps, a spokesperson said in a statement on Tuesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/10/business/media/gone-with-the-wind-hbo-max.html

 

Whoopi Goldberg, who did similar wraparounds around Tom and Jerry cartoons on DVD, has stated that a warning wraparound is what is needed for this film, and  fully rejects the idea of banning the film outright.

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2 minutes ago, CinemaInternational said:

Whoopi Goldberg, who did similar wraparounds around Tom and Jerry cartoons on DVD, has stated that a warning wraparound is what is needed for this film, and  fully rejects the idea of banning the film outright.

But some people are fighting the notion of wraparounds. They want it to be seen casually and without warning. Which of course is highly irresponsible, in my opinion.

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Guess we need warning wraparounds for all The Godfather movies in deference to Italian-Americans.  Then for all the movie and TV  westerns and how they portrayed Native Americans, Chinese, women and many more.

Then TCM can do wraparounds for God's Little Acre and similar for how they portray white Southerners.

Ad infinitum!!!!!

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2 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

But some people are fighting the notion of wraparounds. They want it to be seen casually and without warning. Which of course is highly irresponsible, in my opinion.

Why? My God, GWTW is primarily a romantic work of fiction based on a work of fiction.  We can't have "warnings" for EVERY movie shown on TCM, HBO, etc. 

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3 minutes ago, TheCid said:

Why? My God, GWTW is primarily a romantic work of fiction based on a work of fiction.  We can't have "warnings" for EVERY movie shown on TCM, HBO, etc. 

I think your arguments are becoming rather exaggerative. Nobody in any thread said put warnings on every movie TCM airs. 

If you can't live with a warning that says "the material contained in this film may be considered racially offensive to some groups" then what does that say about you?

Why would you or anyone have a problem with that as long as you can still see the film and bask in its romanticized racism?

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Just now, Swithin said:

Next they'll be censoring Little Women (1933) because Jo March (played by Katharine Hepburn) often exclaims "Christopher Columbus!" 

I think this is all dreadful. A few years ago, In Ghana, they pulled down a statue of Gandhi, because he was considered racist during his time in Africa. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-46552614

Good. Pull all his statues down if it's for the best. Would you want to keep up a reminder of someone who was opposed to who you are and what you stand for? No.

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1 minute ago, TopBilled said:

I think your arguments are becoming rather exaggerative. Nobody in any thread said put warnings on every movie TCM airs. 

If you can't live with a warning that says "the material contained in this film may be considered racially offensive to some groups" then what does that say about you?

Why would you or anyone have a problem with that as long as you can still see the film and bask in its romanticized racism?

You are misinterpreting my intentions.  I am pointing out the logical results of censoring GWTW or requiring wraparounds to explain what should be obvious.  If it applies to this movie, it must naturally apply to all that some may find offensive.

Incidentally, GWTW not only portrays African Americans poorly, but also wealthy Southern whites, poor whites, Northerners and many others.  Not even sure Scarlet or Melanie comes off all that favorably.

Also, you are not asking for a warning, but NOT showing it at all or requiring commentary before and after.  That's what you said.

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1 minute ago, TheCid said:

You are misinterpreting my intentions.  I am pointing out the logical results of censoring GWTW or requiring wraparounds to explain what should be obvious.  If it applies to this movie, it must naturally apply to all that some may find offensive.

Incidentally, GWTW not only portrays African Americans poorly, but also wealthy Southern whites, poor whites, Northerners and many others.  Not even sure Scarlet or Melanie comes off all that favorably.

Also, you are not asking for a warning, but NOT showing it at all or requiring commentary before and after.  That's what you said.

I don't want it shown. But others say that if it is to be shown, then put a warning on it. You seem to want it to be shown casually. And in woke 2020 America, that is no longer feasible.

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37 minutes ago, TomJH said:

And why stop at black stereotypes?

...Or why stop at Asians or Germans or Gay characters...?  There's lots in old movies to be offended by.  I don't believe in censorship either.

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Bad week for racist bastard Columbus. 

I was reading about the beheading of CC in Boston. Beheading seems an appropriate action. What is

somewhat surprising is that that statue dates from 1979, long after the bad side of Columbus was

known. And they still put up a statue to him. Not sure why it was done. Now if Columbus had been

Irish I could see it. 

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7 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Good. Pull all his statues down if it's for the best. Would you want to keep up a reminder of someone who was opposed to who you are and what you stand for? No.

GANDHI didn't do that.  It's another form of racism that Americans cannot understand.  There are all kinds of "woke" truths in this world. 

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1 minute ago, TopBilled said:

I don't want it shown. But others say that if it is to be shown, then put a warning on it. You seem to want it to be shown casually. And in woke 2020 America, that is no longer feasible.

You are not asking for a warning, but wraparounds to "discuss" how horrible it is.  Also, you don't want it shown and that is censorship!

You may want to search for definitions of "Woke America" before using that as a justification for censorship.  And this is still America, so GWTW and many other movies and TV shows can be shown exactly as originally presented and not censored or warned about.

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Just now, Allhallowsday said:

GANDHI didn't do that.  It's another form of racism that Americans cannot understand.  There are all kinds of "woke" truths in this world. 

No. You can't re-appropriate the word "woke" and make it a relative term. It's an absolute term. Either you are woke or you are not woke. It transcends any bastardized interpretation.

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