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Check in if you think TCM should keep GONE WITH THE WIND off the schedule


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1 minute ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

WHY do so many people marginalize the feeling of those that are not like them,   mocking them,  and implying they are misguided fools?

Not to get overtly religious. But Amen and Hallelujah.

They seem to think that if they can bully the marginalized back into the margins, then all will be right with the world again.

Wrong.

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TCM has the opportunity to create introductions for many of these vintage films to help contemporary viewers understand the impact of racism in subtle and obvious ways on the manner in which the movies were made. The other night TCM screen a film featuring Benny Goodman's band. Goodman was a pioneer in integrating his big band yet the band in the film "Sweet and Low Down" was entirely white. It would be interesting to learn how that came to be. What is a studio decision?

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Interesting that I happened to be humming Zippety Doo Dah the other night at work and a co-worker commented that we are not allowed to see Song of the South anymore and that GWTW was also up for disintegration.  I think that's terrible. We should be able to watch whatever we want to.  Times were what they were. It's history. 

My best friend's husband is black and I asked him once how he can stand the racial slurs and demeaning characters in the old films. He's a major Three Stooges fan. He told me it doesn't bother him at all.  Of course, he's six foot five and can knock anybody out of their senses, but still...

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14 minutes ago, Janet0312 said:

Interesting that I happened to be humming Zippety Doo Dah the other night at work and a co-worker commented that we are not allowed to see Song of the South anymore and that GWTW was also up for disintegration.  I think that's terrible. We should be able to watch whatever we want to.  Times were what they were. It's history. 

My best friend's husband is black and I asked him once how he can stand the racial slurs and demeaning characters in the old films. He's a major Three Stooges fan. He told me it doesn't bother him at all.  Of course, he's six foot five and can knock anybody out of their senses, but still...

So private companies shouldn't own any content;   i.e. all content (movies,  music,  art, etc..),  should be part of the public domain?      This is a serious questions because the only way 'we should be able to watch whatever we want to' would be if all content was in the public domain and made available to entire public without any fees (since fees can prohibit some folks from being able to 'what whatever' they want).

What we in American  have is capitalism.    In the case of Song of the South the owner of the film,  Disney,  made a business decision with regards to distribution.    So the government should take the film from Disney and place it in the public domain?    

I assume this isn't what you had in mind,  but then what is so terrible here?    I ask because it appears the majority here are going over the top under the assumption there is some vast conspiracy by 'them' instead of select and specific business decisions by individual content providing private companies.  

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1 hour ago, Janet0312 said:

Interesting that I happened to be humming Zippety Doo Dah the other night at work and a co-worker commented that we are not allowed to see Song of the South anymore and that GWTW was also up for disintegration.  I think that's terrible. We should be able to watch whatever we want to.  Times were what they were. It's history. 

My best friend's husband is black and I asked him once how he can stand the racial slurs and demeaning characters in the old films. He's a major Three Stooges fan. He told me it doesn't bother him at all.  Of course, he's six foot five and can knock anybody out of their senses, but still...

Good story.  That sort of reminds me of a guy who was a friend of a coworker, except he was 6'7", about 300, and white.  He came out to the bars with us here and there.  It was funny to see some of the regulars who were normally full of themselves and didn't have much regard for others physical space, mostly weak beta male types, backing off and creating a space around us.  Not just comfortable breathing room, but about a 5' diameter or more, and before there was a Covid frenzy...  😁

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6 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

WHY do so many people marginalize the feeling of those that are not like them,   mocking them,  and implying they are misguided fools?

 

 

6 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Not to get overtly religious. But Amen and Hallelujah.

They seem to think that if they can bully the marginalized back into the margins, then all will be right with the world again.

Wrong.

I'm confused, but it seems to me that James and TopBilled have been "marginalizing those who disagree with them, as well as mocking them and implying they are misguided fools."

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On 6/10/2020 at 12:53 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

Hopefully TCM will ask the TCM insiders this question in the next survey.

For the record I believe TCM should  show GWTW without any commentary.    

 

TCM should absolutely show GWTW because it's a masterpiece all across the board that I could probably write 1000 pages on. HOWEVER, it contains sensitive elements that do need to be mentioned before the film starts, either a simple video pre-recorded by one of the TCM hosts or a simple message displayed in text before the Selznick studio sequence.  

I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm not sure I understand why one would be against contextualization since it doesn't interfere with the movie at all, it's simply out of respect for those that have suffered from years of discrimination and systematic racism. 

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5 hours ago, Fedya said:

The projection is strong here, TopBilled.

The amateur psychoanalysis is strong. And quite funny. But if it makes you feel better to do that, go ahead. I think it would get tiring though at some point. Wasting energy on a message board fighting all the time, contradicting all the time, engaging in attempts to turn people away the issues, because of an inability to deal with woke culture and address this maturely and responsibly.

Yeah, it's probably best to skip some of this. :) 

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As usual these days I'm late to the discussion, but I'll make two comments:

1. GWTW should NOT be removed from the TCM lineup, any more than should The Birth of a Nation or other movies that reflect the social climate of their time.  We don't learn from history if we choose to ignore it.

2. But future screenings of GWTW should be introduced by Donald Bogle, who as we know is one of the foremost writers on the history of blacks in films.  Just as we don't learn from history by choosing to ignore it, we also don't learn from history by ignoring legitimate critiques.  Mr. Bogle has been a frequent TCM co-host, and there's no reason why he wouldn't lend much insight to TCM's "flagship" movie, much as Eddie Muller gives us such terrific commentary in Noir Alley.  Why NOT choose hosts who have particular insights and perspectives on important films like this?

NOTE:  This has nothing to do with any "trigger warnings".  I operate from the assumption that nobody who watches TCM is in need of any such warnings, certainly not when the film is properly introduced and placed in its historical context.

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8 minutes ago, MerryPickford said:

TCM should absolutely show GWTW because it's a masterpiece all across the board that I could probably write 1000 pages on. HOWEVER, it contains sensitive elements that do need to be mentioned before the film starts, either a simple video pre-recorded by one of the TCM hosts or a simple message displayed in text before the Selznick studio sequence.  

I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm not sure I understand why one would be against contextualization since it doesn't interfere with the movie at all, it's simply out of respect for those that have suffered from years of discrimination and systematic racism. 

They're against it because it challenges them and the fact that they don't want to be reminded that racism exists. They are being forced to address it head on, and they have to address efforts to make racism extinct...but some of them are holding on to racism till the very end, because it gives them a weird sense of power over marginalized groups.

Though you're right, they shouldn't be threatened by a short scholarly wraparound. They should be able to handle it. The fact that they can't speaks volumes.

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3 minutes ago, AndyM108 said:

As usual these days I'm late to the discussion, but I'll make two comments:

1. GWTW should NOT be removed from the TCM lineup, any more than should The Birth of a Nation or other movies that reflect the social climate of their time.  We don't learn from history if we choose to ignore it.

2. But future screenings of GWTW should be introduced by Donald Bogle, who as we know is one of the foremost writers on the history of blacks in films.  Just as we don't learn from history by choosing to ignore it, we also don't learn from history by ignoring legitimate critiques.  Mr. Bogle has been a frequent TCM co-host, and there's no reason why he wouldn't lend much insight to TCM's "flagship" movie, much as Eddie Muller gives us such terrific commentary in Noir Alley.  Why NOT choose hosts who have particular insights and perspectives on important films like this?

Nice post Andy. Thanks for chiming in!

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3 hours ago, Chicago Steven said:

TCM has the opportunity to create introductions for many of these vintage films to help contemporary viewers understand the impact of racism in subtle and obvious ways on the manner in which the movies were made. The other night TCM screen a film featuring Benny Goodman's band. Goodman was a pioneer in integrating his big band yet the band in the film "Sweet and Low Down" was entirely white. It would be interesting to learn how that came to be. What is a studio decision?

Welcome to the message boards Steven. Hopefully someone will come along with an answer to your question.

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2 hours ago, Janet0312 said:

Interesting that I happened to be humming Zippety Doo Dah the other night at work and a co-worker commented that we are not allowed to see Song of the South anymore and that GWTW was also up for disintegration.  I think that's terrible. We should be able to watch whatever we want to.  Times were what they were. It's history. 

My best friend's husband is black and I asked him once how he can stand the racial slurs and demeaning characters in the old films. He's a major Three Stooges fan. He told me it doesn't bother him at all.  Of course, he's six foot five and can knock anybody out of their senses, but still...

I like how you used the word disintegration. Though I am of the opposite view on this. I like disintegration in some cases and don't see it as necessarily a wrong action or a negative word. Especially if what we're seeking to disintegrate is wrong and negative, like racism is.

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6 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I like how you used the word disintegration. Though I am of the opposite view on this. I like disintegration in some cases and don't see it as necessarily a wrong action or a negative word. Especially if what we're seeking to disintegrate is wrong and negative, like racism is.

🦆🪐👽

tumblr_ps190nkS0P1wks6iyo2_500.gifv

 

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44 minutes ago, MerryPickford said:

 

TCM should absolutely show GWTW because it's a masterpiece all across the board that I could probably write 1000 pages on. HOWEVER, it contains sensitive elements that do need to be mentioned before the film starts, either a simple video pre-recorded by one of the TCM hosts or a simple message displayed in text before the Selznick studio sequence.  

I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm not sure I understand why one would be against contextualization since it doesn't interfere with the movie at all, it's simply out of respect for those that have suffered from years of discrimination and systematic racism. 

I'm not against contextualization,   I just would prefer not to see it (especially more than once).    But as you note it is fairly easy to just skip such commentary.

   

 

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1 hour ago, TheCid said:

 

I'm confused, but it seems to me that James and TopBilled have been "marginalizing those who disagree with them, as well as mocking them and implying they are misguided fools."

I agree with you;  you're confused.   Yet again! 

 

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Since I have some free time, I wanted to share something that relates to the topic of contextualization of racially insensitive films. I was very fortunate to attend a restoration screening of "Little Annie Rooney"(1925) a Mary Pickford film that was shown at LACMA and UCLA around 2014-2015, I forget the year. Anyway, I invited my co-worker to join me since she had seen The Crowd(1928) with me over at Samuel Goldwyn Theater in Beverly Hills and was mind-blown at the high production value of a silent film.  I proceeded to passionately and rather obsessively share my love and joy of silent cinema to her and asked her if she would be willing to go to another silent film screening with me since I didn't have many friends that were interested. 

She told me that she would love to try and attend the screening with me.  After I invited her that in the film, I suddenly remembered there being a black character depiction performed by child actor Eugene Jackson that is incredibly jarring that absolutely needed a warning, otherwise I would be irresponsible and feel badly if she was too taken aback by it due to a lack of commentary.  Ultimately it turned out she couldn't make it to the screening after all so I never gave her that context in the end, but when I attended that screening alone with all those people, the people from the Academy that helped with the restoration made no mention of the racially insensitive material nor did anyone ask. To be fair, it was probably 97 percent white people that were over the age of 40 and a few young people that looked like students. Maybe me and 3 other people were the only non-white audience members. 

I guess the reason I shared that experience was as a reminder that even the people involved with film archives and restoration projects don't always think about these things because it probably doesn't occur to them  so it's absolutely important for people to bring these issues to light. Thanks for reading. 

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1 hour ago, TopBilled said:

The amateur psychoanalysis is strong.

 

1 hour ago, TopBilled said:

They're against it because it challenges them

Apparently you can read other people's minds.  Nice bit of armchair psychoanalysis there.

 

1 hour ago, TopBilled said:

Wasting energy on a message board fighting all the time, contradicting all the time, engaging in attempts to turn people away the issues, because of an inability to deal with woke culture and address this maturely and responsibly.

I'd say I resent the fact that you think I'm immature just because I disagree with you, but then I figured it's just the tedious hypocrisy you engage in all the time.

In fact, woke culture has come up here before.  Half a year ago I specifically brought up "woke knitting" as an example of how people use "wokeness" as a cloak to be incredibly nasty bullies who claim while they're being so nasty that they are in fact virtuous.  And such people inevitably focus on smaller and smaller things as they try to control more and more of people's lives.  I thought I posted the links here before, but a search of the site cant find it; but the UK Guardian's "Comment is Free" section has had pieces on the racist and/or sexist nature of things as mundane as barbecue and cupcakes.  Such people are nasty and deserve to have their nastiness pointed out to them at every opportunity.

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A MONEY THOUGHT:  Is it cheaper for TCM to lease "Gone With the Wind" for a viewing -OR- to lease 3 other movies from the 1930s that run 70 minutes, 70 minutes and 80 minutes? 

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Stupid question; Shelving Ted “TCM” Turner’s favorite feature because a group of radicals won’t turn the channel?

Gone with the Wind is a multi-award winning (8 OSCARS!!!) movie in the most golden year of Hollywood.

Liberty is having the ability to make your own choices perhaps having your opinions/views influenced by others but not about having others make their decisions for you, while human “servitude” continues throughout the world as a means of social survival.

 

🤘

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And how about TCM taking HIS GIRL FRIDAY off it's schedule due to that free flowing "pickaninny"  reference used by the reporters during the big search for Earl Williams?   You remember?  When someone rushed in and mentioned that a woman gave birth to a "pickaninniy" in the back of a cab and the police rushed over to examine the "pickaninny" to see if it was Earl Williams because, "They knew he had to be hiding somewhere!"  ? 

Sepiatone

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16 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I agree with you;  you're confused.   Yet again! 

 

I am confused because you and Top Billed are making posts that contradict your own positions.

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