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Check in if you think TCM should keep GONE WITH THE WIND off the schedule


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2 minutes ago, kate333 said:

I couldn't agree more!

As a longtime TCM fan, I was very sad to see TCM "cave" to ridiculous PC Lobby demands to air it--but only if it includes a silly, frankly patronizing race-lecture introduction. 

Look TCM viewers all have brains and most of us are probably highly-educated, intelligent movie buffs.  Thus, we can all be trusted to figure out--without "help" from frankly insulting "coaching/brainwashing"?? political lectures/commentary--that GWTW (like most "old" classic films, for that matter) is simply a reflection of the bygone eras/culture in which it was made and first released, nothing more.      When I watch some of Marilyn Monroe's earlier films, I don't assume all women are "dumb blondes".  Or if I watch The Godfather series, I don't assume that most/all Italians are mobsters.   Yet where are the formal "apologies"/disclaimer intros for THOSE films (insulting portrayals of women, ethnic groups)?? [sarcasm]....

My point being that viewers should be treated like sophisticated, discerning ADULTS,  trusted to view and interpret any film any way they so choose, not like simpletons.  

Note that the people requesting such commentary before certain films are shown always site children.    I.e. that young minds need such commentary.      That all views are NOT discerning ADULTS as you claim.

While that doesn't change my POV (which is that commentary isn't necessary,   and if parents believe it is for their children they can provide it),   note that the above reasoning is the same one that has been used by conservatives for over a century to support actual government imposed censorship;  e.g.  the Production code,  words that can't be said on over-the-air TV,  showing of nudity,  etc....  

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16 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Note that the people requesting such commentary before certain films are shown always site children.    I.e. that young minds need such commentary.      That all views are NOT discerning ADULTS as you claim.

While that doesn't change my POV (which is that commentary isn't necessary,   and if parents believe it is for their children they can provide it),   note that the above reasoning is the same one that has been used by conservatives for over a century to support actual government imposed censorship;  e.g.  the Production code,  words that can't be said on over-the-air TV,  showing of nudity,  etc....  

Hi James.  I see your point.  However, although I've never seen an "official" viewer survey, I believe that MOST TCM viewers ARE adults.   And IMO most children don't have the patience to sit through a FOUR HOUR film....well, okay....perhaps Harry Potter....😉  As a timely aside, so interesting that JK Rowling is also getting slammed by the PC "Trans" Lobby for her opinions re: biology/gender..

I completely support civil rights of ALL...but I just hate being ORDERED, TOLD, LECTURED etc. what I "HAVE TO" think, read, see, do, etc....in the name of "freedom".....That's where the PC Lobbies all mess up their good intentions....in my humble (one) opinion.  

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9 hours ago, kate333 said:

I couldn't agree more!

As a longtime TCM fan, I was very sad to see TCM "cave" to ridiculous PC Lobby demands to air it--but only if it includes a silly, frankly patronizing race-lecture introduction. 

Look TCM viewers all have brains and most of us are probably highly-educated, intelligent movie buffs.  Thus, we can all be trusted to figure out--without "help" from insulting "coaching" or "explanations"  (political lectures/brainwashing)--that GWTW (like most "old" classic films) is simply a reflection of the bygone era/culture in which it was made and first released, nothing more.      When I watch some of Marilyn Monroe's earlier films, I don't assume ALL blonde women are "dumb".  Or if I watch The Godfather series, I don't conclude that ALL Italians are mobsters.   Yet where are the formal "apologies"/disclaimer intros for THOSE films (insulting portrayals of women, certain ethnic groups)?? SMH....

My point being that viewers should be treated like sophisticated, discerning ADULTS,  trusted to view and interpret any film any way they so choose, not like simpletons.  

I should have clarified that I'm very liberal -- so my perspective has nothing to do with the so-called 'PC Lobby' (I don't actually know what that is). I just think TCM viewers are, as you say, highly-educated and intelligent enough to understand that the attitudes in these movies are largely unacceptable in modern-day society.

I totally understand where TopBilled and others are coming from in suggesting it should be removed, I just don't agree in this particular case. While some people definitely need to be educated on the context around racism and the offensive way non-white people were once portrayed (I have one of these types of people in my own family back in the UK, sadly), to force the subject like this or remove it entirely would be like pouring gasoline onto the fire.

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14 hours ago, kate333 said:

Hi James.  I see your point.  However, although I've never seen an "official" viewer survey, I believe that MOST TCM viewers ARE adults.   And IMO most children don't have the patience to sit through a FOUR HOUR film....well, okay....perhaps Harry Potter....😉  As a timely aside, so interesting that JK Rowling is also getting slammed by the PC "Trans" Lobby for her opinions re: biology/gender..

I completely support civil rights of ALL...but I just hate being ORDERED, TOLD, LECTURED etc. what I "HAVE TO" think, read, see, do, etc....in the name of "freedom".....That's where the PC Lobbies all mess up their good intentions....in my humble (one) opinion.  

I agree with you about most (vast majority) of TCM viewers being adults.   (most of us don't have children at home,  we have grandchildren now,   ha ha).

 

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16 hours ago, FItzMularkey said:

Without Splendor in the Grass works for me. What a stupid film.  Everybody's lives are ruined (or they have to be institutionalized) because Natalie thinks she has to be a "good" girl?? Rubbish!

Maybe you had to be there in the 50's to get the drama. Shame was a massive influence, hard to believe now.

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16 hours ago, FItzMularkey said:

Without Splendor in the Grass works for me. What a stupid film.  Everybody's lives are ruined (or they have to be institutionalized) because Natalie thinks she has to be a "good" girl?? Rubbish!

Can't agree about Splendor In the Grass being rubbish, it's a favorite of mine and when RO years ago talked about how it was a favorite of his I was very pleased. However, I've seen Splendor many times and own a copy of it and I'm so happy Love With The Proper Stranger is being shown. Really looking forward to seeing it although I also have a copy of it but it's not shown that often so now other viewers who haven't seen it will get a chance to see this excellent film

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Some here who are advocating the removal of Gone With the Wind and any other film that shows any social injustice is really talking about the severest form of censorship. These films as many have written were produced during times in our country's past where social injustice prevailed. Not showing these films robs many of us the cherished memories we have of these films and if we are all sensible about it recognize that yes, these films were made during a period of time where black Americans were not treated the same as white Americans. It is called HISTORY. If we remove GWTW or any other film that showcases the ways that Americans chose to treat those in the minority, then we are ourselves going to make the same mistakes again and again. One must be aware and at least consider that knowing about history will eventually cause many of us to reexamine history and not repeat it.

 

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completely correct. the left is trying to recreate the past like the bad never happened. we must remember the past in order to learn and not repeat it.

 

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the Lees, they must remain standing. the stonewalls, the bedford forrests, they must remain standing because they are monuments to a time when some men decided to defend the indefensible, human slavery. and the moment we cease to be haunted by it's remembrance, we become the new confederates...

something to dwell on not only in the nipkowdisc zone but wherever men walk god's earth.

 

:)

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2 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

the left is trying to recreate the past like the bad never happened. we must remember the past in order to learn and not repeat it.

Their current Herculean effort to bring back racial segregation has exposed the pitfalls of their identity politics better than anything we moderates could have demonstrated.

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19 hours ago, kate333 said:

Hi James.  I see your point.  However, although I've never seen an "official" viewer survey, I believe that MOST TCM viewers ARE adults.   And IMO most children don't have the patience to sit through a FOUR HOUR film....well, okay....perhaps Harry Potter....😉  As a timely aside, so interesting that JK Rowling is also getting slammed by the PC "Trans" Lobby for her opinions re: biology/gender..

I completely support civil rights of ALL...but I just hate being ORDERED, TOLD, LECTURED etc. what I "HAVE TO" think, read, see, do, etc....in the name of "freedom".....That's where the PC Lobbies all mess up their good intentions....in my humble (one) opinion.  

The worst part about that "incident" is that in the original tweet JK Rowling didn't even say anything about trans. She said that people who mestruated are women.

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She didn't say anything directly, but she was obviously implying that you can only be considered a woman if you have the biological functions traditionally associated with being a woman, which upset several zillion people.

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34 minutes ago, DavidbarryM said:

It is one of the greatest movies ever! It needs no special introduction. You are jackass!  The left is ruining this once great channel! thats right , I said it!

You can't live in the past forever.

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17 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

She didn't say anything directly, but she was obviously implying that you can only be considered a woman if you have the biological functions traditionally associated with being a woman, which upset several zillion people.

Did only upset a few folks;  those the failed biology 101.

 

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On 7/29/2020 at 1:17 PM, fxreyman said:

Some here who are advocating the removal of Gone With the Wind and any other film that shows any social injustice is really talking about the severest form of censorship. These films as many have written were produced during times in our country's past where social injustice prevailed. Not showing these films robs many of us the cherished memories we have of these films and if we are all sensible about it recognize that yes, these films were made during a period of time where black Americans were not treated the same as white Americans. It is called HISTORY. If we remove GWTW or any other film that showcases the ways that Americans chose to treat those in the minority, then we are ourselves going to make the same mistakes again and again. One must be aware and at least consider that knowing about history will eventually cause many of us to reexamine history and not repeat it.

 

I believe only one person at this forum is calling for content providers like TCM to NOT show films like GWTW.       Unless every content provide refuses to show films like GWTW,  I fail to see what the concern is.     I.e.  find these films somewhere else,  and boycott  (i.e. don't purchases the services of) the content providers that refuse to show such films.

That is what I would do if TCM was to make the very misguided decision of NOT showing films like GWTW.            I.e. stop complaining OMG this is censorship and  instead use the power of the marketplace.    

 

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1 minute ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

 find these films somewhere else,  and boycott  (i.e. don't purchases the services of) the content providers that refuse to show such films.

That is what I would do if TCM was to make the very misguided decision of NOT showing films like GWTW.            I.e. stop complaining OMG this is censorship and  instead use the power of the marketplace.    

Not me. If TCM doesn't show GWTW anymore, then I won't watch it on TCM.

I'll watch something else on TCM.

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6 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Did only upset a few folks;  those the failed biology 101.

There's a new thought mode of defining gender among the young, and it's not because they're stupid or ignorant. They would interpret a statement like this as hateful. Transphobia is a real thing, and I think it's as hard for some people in my generation to understand as it was for my grandfather and father to perceive themselves as racists, despite the racist comments they both made.

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4 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

 

There's a new thought mode of defining gender among the young, and it's not because they're stupid or ignorant. They would interpret a statement like this as hateful. Transphobia is a real thing, and I think it's as hard for some people in my generation to understand as it was for my grandfather and father to perceive themselves as racists, despite the racist comments they both made.

I understand what you're saying but to me those with this view are like conservatives that say climate change is fake news.   

Gender is rooted in science.    Gender is biology 101.    Now the social behaviors typically associated with gender-identity  are just that;  made up social constructs.     How one dresses,   if they are into sports or shopping, etc..      I.e. so called masculine or feminine traits:  again bogus social constructs that should be left in the past.  A  view I haven't supported for the last 40 years when I was told I must be a women since I love those black and white movies,  going to the museum etc.. over hunting and drinking beer with a bunch of dudes!.

But there are clearly biological differences between gender.       Society doesn't need to pretend there are NOT  in order to rid itself of the bogus social constructs typically associated with gender.

 

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12 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I believe only one person at this forum is calling for content providers like TCM to NOT show films like GWTW.       Unless every content provide refuses to show films like GWTW,  I fail to see what the concern is.     I.e.  find these films somewhere else,  and boycott  (i.e. don't purchases the services of) the content providers that refuse to show such films.

That is what I would do if TCM was to make the very misguided decision of NOT showing films like GWTW.            I.e. stop complaining OMG this is censorship and  instead use the power of the marketplace.    

 

I hadn't planned on coming back to this thread, but the above post brings up an interesting question.

If only one person on this thread wants GWTW banned from the TCM schedule, perhaps the title should be changed to Opinions on Banning Gone With the Wind as more accurate than the current thread title.  As it is now, it is misleading in that the thread title asks ONLY those who want it banned to "check in."

Incidentally, it appears the vast majority of posters do want GWTW to continue being shown.  There are different opinions as to whether or not to have explanatory introductions and outros vs. just showing it as is.

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On 7/28/2020 at 8:30 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

Note that the people requesting such commentary before certain films are shown always site children.    I.e. that young minds need such commentary.      That all views are NOT discerning ADULTS as you claim.

While that doesn't change my POV (which is that commentary isn't necessary,   and if parents believe it is for their children they can provide it),   note that the above reasoning is the same one that has been used by conservatives for over a century to support actual government imposed censorship;  e.g.  the Production code,  words that can't be said on over-the-air TV,  showing of nudity,  etc....  

I think children who have attended school are better prepared to see the evils of racial injustice, slavery, etc. than many adults.  At least those who have attended public schools.   I think everyone understands that what is depicted in the movie re: blacks, slavery, etc. was evil, is evil and always will be evil.  Except for a small minority on the right - and they are adults not children.

1 hour ago, DavidbarryM said:

It is one of the greatest movies ever! It needs no special introduction. You are jackass!  The left is ruining this once great channel! thats right , I said it!

Don't blame the left; only very few people (one?) want it banned.  Many of us liberal/center-left/lefties do not want it banned.  Some also do not want required politically correct commentary wrap arounds.

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I had stepped away from this thread for awhile, because I didn't want to start repeating myself since my viewpoint remains unchanged on the subject.

But I see the thread has now been moved to the Off-Topics area. Is this because some replies were veering too much into the political realm?

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7 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

 Is this because some replies were veering too much into the political realm?

Who knows why the moderators do what they do?

It's mystery like why does Joe Biden like to have small children play with his leg hair.

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1 minute ago, SadPanda said:

Who knows why the moderators do what they do?

It's mystery like why does Joe Biden like to have small children play with his leg hair.

Very DarkBlue

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