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slaytonf

Gone With the Wind: Margaret Mitchell's Cautionary Tale to the south.

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This is here mostly to test how many Gone/Wind threads this site can support.

I've always admired the movie.  Victor Fleming is a good director.  And Viviene Leigh delivered a performance for the ages.  Her achievement made harder, not easier by the role being one of the great characters in literature.   But people in the south mostly looked past her warning of the dangers from obsessing over a dead past that never was.  Scarlett O'Hara symbolizes the south, and what happens to her traces what happens to the south before, during, and after the war.  She is a strong-willed, intelligent, clear-headed person.  She knows what she wants when she sees it, goes after it, and gets it.  Rhett Butler is the man most suited for her, so close to her in intellect, temperament, and savvy.  As a pair they represent the new south, its future, risen from the ashes--or were supposed to be.  But she has a controlling irrational obsession for Ashley Wilkes (the weak enervated end-product of a defunct society) that clouds her judgement, leading to the destruction of her marriage and happiness.  She recognizes this finally, but too late.  But does she learn from this?  No, she only substitutes one irrational obsession with another--that she will get Rhett Butler back.  But he's not coming back.  If someone even hates you maybe there is some passion left, but if they don't give a damn, the ashes are cold, baby.  Scarlett's idea of returning to Tara is another of her controlling irrational obsessions.  Far from being a source of strength, Tara since the end of the war has only been a purgatory of toil and a dead weight.  The city is where her great success was, but she abandons it.  Even if her goal of getting Rhett Butler back is more than just futile self-deception, Tara is the last place to do it from.  He is a man of the city, commerce, industry.  Her return to Tara signals a final retreat into a delusional dream world of passive hopefulness and increasing detachment from reality.  I would not like to see her twenty years after the end of the story.

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Has anyone read the “Gone With the Wind” novel? Is it good? I need something to read after I finally get through “Little Women” (::gag::). Though I was also thinking of reading “Valley of the Dolls.”

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Who's the bird, speedracer?  I like birds.  I have a cockatiel at present.  He's getting a lil' older at 18½ and showing some signs of age.  However, considering I found him in a grocery store parking lot on Sept. 14, 2001 (I wrote the date down so I wouldn't forget when I acquired SWEET PEA) I'm just glad he's still around.  Sometimes I call him a Shakespearean Pea:  SWEETETH PEA-ETH.

I'd recommend PET SEMATARY by Stephen King.  Aside from Fred Gwynne as 'Jud Crandall' the movie that came out in '89 was pretty dire.  The book was better!  And it's not insanely long.  

My 2¢ worth. 

 

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47 minutes ago, Mr. Gorman said:

Who's the bird, speedracer?  I like birds.  I have a cockatiel at present.  He's getting a lil' older at 18½ and showing some signs of age.  However, considering I found him in a grocery store parking lot on Sept. 14, 2001 (I wrote the date down so I wouldn't forget when I acquired SWEET PEA) I'm just glad he's still around.  Sometimes I call him a Shakespearean Pea:  SWEETETH PEA-ETH.

I'd recommend PET SEMATARY by Stephen King.  Aside from Fred Gwynne as 'Jud Crandall' the movie that came out in '89 was pretty dire.  The book was better!  And it's not insanely long.  

My 2¢ worth. 

 

The bird is “Buddy.”  He’s a 3-year old yellow-sided Green Cheek Conure. He loves musicals and “The Golden Girls.”  I think Dorothy is his favorite character. 

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Give Buddy some extra scritches for me.  I had a cockatiel who died three years ago at age 30 yrs 5mos.  He was Old Man Cockie, but he liked his neck rubs and scritches!  He'd make happy chirps.    

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3 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Has anyone read the “Gone With the Wind” novel? Is it good?

My Mother gave me her (1st printing) copy as a gift. She read it as a teen non stop over 3 days. I read it almost as fast, it's a really well written story. 

6 hours ago, slaytonf said:

This is here mostly to test how many Gone/Wind threads this site can support.

Any GWTW thread is better that any obviously baiting one.

How about comparing GWTW to the classic film that centers around racism, GUESS WHOS COMING TO DINNER? '67. People watching that today WONDER what the fuss is all about, interracial marriage is finally no longer an issue to most Americans. 

I've heard lots of talk about the problems with IMITATION OF LIFE too. Racism is depicted right along with sexism. That story (I also have my Mom's original book!) worked like a history lesson when I first watched the movie. It illustrated with charactors how oppressed life was for some women and especially those of color.

Movies can provide a historical illustration of our past culture.

I like a "warning" before a movie that there will be sex/violence/language so I'm prepared for it. "Disclaimers" are for the corporation's protection, not the viewer's.

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1 hour ago, TikiSoo said:

Any GWTW thread is better that any obviously baiting one.

Hope you don't think that was my intent.  I assume not.  My disposition is to always oppose and deflate trolls and provocateurs.

I am tired of the standard dialog of Gone/Wind that goes back and forth on the two-dimensional heritage-celebration/racism-promotion spectrum.  This is a good example of how people see what they are looking for and not what is there.

This is not incompatible with poking gentle fun at those who see treating the movie as other than cinematic scripture as striking a blow at the bedrock of civilization.

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5 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Has anyone read the “Gone With the Wind” novel? Is it good? I need something to read after I finally get through “Little Women” (::gag::). Though I was also thinking of reading “Valley of the Dolls.”

Try Uncle Tom's Cabin.

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10 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

How about comparing GWTW to the classic film that centers around racism, GUESS WHOS COMING TO DINNER? '67. People watching that today WONDER what the fuss is all about, interracial marriage is finally no longer an issue to most Americans. 

Yes, that's a good one to bring up. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was filmed while interracial marriage was illegal in 16 states. The Loving V. Virginia case changed that only two weeks after filming ended (and two days after Spencer Tracy died). So what was illegal in a big section of the country when they were filming was legal by the time it was released. The film was clearly meant to be a comforting yet probing look at what was a major lighting rod in the lower half of the country. It was made with the best intentions (even if the film is not as hard hitting as the 1964 independent  film One Potato Two Potato). 

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13 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was filmed while interracial marriage was illegal in 16 states

See? I did not know interracial marriage was ever illegal in the US*. Thankfully, I never saw segregation and just the thought of it baffles & outrages me.

That is why classic film can be a history lesson. Just like books, movies can make the stories alive with charactors that viewers can experience through. For that reason alone movies that may be politically "incorrect" really should not be banned.

* United States....we're anything but united.

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Now it is far from unusual to see commercials featuring mixed race couples. I don't know when that first began but it certainly wouldn't have been the case in the '60s. Would it have been in the '70s or '80s? We obviously have a lot further to go than this in race relations but it's still a healthy sign.

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2 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

See? I did not know interracial marriage was ever illegal in the US*. Thankfully, I never saw segregation and just the thought of it baffles & outrages me.

That is why classic film can be a history lesson. Just like books, movies can make the stories alive with charactors that viewers can experience through. For that reason alone movies that may be politically "incorrect" really should not be banned.

* United States....we're anything but united.

 Jakeem just happened to post this yesterday in the Whoppers thread in Off-Topics ...

17 hours ago, jakeem said:

v90LrlR__bigger.jpg

The day is named for the monumental case, Loving v. Virginia, and the interracial couple at its center, Richard and Mildred Loving. The 1967 Supreme Court decision struck down 16 state bans on interracial marriage as unconstitutional.
 
4:02 PM · Jun 11, 2020·SocialNewsDesk

 

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1 hour ago, TomJH said:

Now it is far from unusual to see commercials featuring mixed race couples. I don't know when that first began but it certainly wouldn't have been the case in the '60s. Would it have been in the '70s or '80s? We obviously have a lot further to go than this in race relations but it's still a healthy sign.

or the 90s, or 2010s

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1 hour ago, TomJH said:

Now it is far from unusual to see commercials featuring mixed race couples. I don't know when that first began but it certainly wouldn't have been the case in the '60s. Would it have been in the '70s or '80s? We obviously have a lot further to go than this in race relations but it's still a healthy sign.

We just subscribed to Acorn TV and have been watching a lot of UK, Australia and New Zealand series.  It is also interesting to see how many mixed races couples are in more current series, as well as just a large number of minorities.  Large number of the ones in UK series are Indian.

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48 minutes ago, slaytonf said:

or the 90s, or 2010s

Yeah there was a Cheerios commercial just in the last 10 years featuring a black man/white woman with a biracial child that was the center of a lot of discussion. But now all kinds of couples are in commercials. 
 

ETA slaytonf, you wrote what I’ve been thinking ever since this whole situation started. The film has its problems but I never thought it painted the south and slavery as anything happy or idyllic. Rhett, Scarlet and even Mammy are all survivors. 

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18 minutes ago, HelenBaby2 said:

 Rhett, Scarlet and even Mammy are all survivors. 

Sometimes I feel like a survivor after getting through the scenes with Prissy.

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.
@hbomax  will bring GWTW back to its line-up, with an introduction from
@tcm's

: "If people are really doing their homework, we may be poised to have our most informed, honest and productive national conversations yet about Black lives on screen and off."

=============================================

Why we can't turn away from 'Gone with the Wind' -

Opinion by Jacqueline Stewart

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28 minutes ago, mr6666 said:
 
.
@hbomax  will bring GWTW back to its line-up, with an introduction from
@tcm's

: "If people are really doing their homework, we may be poised to have our most informed, honest and productive national conversations yet about Black lives on screen and off."

=============================================

Why we can't turn away from 'Gone with the Wind' -

Opinion by Jacqueline Stewart

Seems we have just politicized this thread-and the movie.  Apparently Prof.  Jacqueline Stewart intends to discuss more than just the movie, but also "black lives on screen and off."  Her specialty is blacks in movies.  Be interesting to see how she tries to balance things.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2020 at 7:53 AM, slaytonf said:

or the 90s, or 2010s

It was common in the 2010s, idiots just whined and **** about it.

Edited by TCMModerator1
Edited for Language

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Okay, I can resist the following no longer here, folks,

As an avid and (reasonably) law-abiding motorcyclist for over 50 years now, I'm afraid I'm now going to have to insist that every time TCM shows The Wild One and/or any of those gawdawful American-International biker flicks from the 1960's starring Peter Fonda, Bruce Dern or Jack Nicholson, that TCM will from now on have to EITHER place a printed disclaimer on screen BEFORE the movie starts, OR have either Ben or Eddie or Alicia or Dave or Jacqueline here explain to the nice folks out there in television land that ONLY a VERY small percentage of motorcyclists are like THOSE freakin' idiots you're about to see!!!

LOL

And of course, JUST in order to place this kind'a thing into more of a "correct historical perspective" for any and all people REAGARDLESS of race, color or creed OR their history or lack thereof of riding a motorcycle, and who apparently EITHER take what they see in a freakin' Hollywood movie as "gospel" OR who somehow seem unable to understand the concept of placing what they see portrayed WITHIN some old freakin' Hollywood movie into the context of the era that it was produced.

(...there, I've said it)

 

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OH and btw, and regarding the above...

I will NOT expect TCM to require this sort of thing the next time they show Easy Rider.

(...why you ASK?...simple...Fonda and Hopper weren't low life "One-Percenters" in THAT one...okay sure, they financed their little trip to New Orleans by selling drugs to that little twerp and future murderer in real life Phil Spector, BUT they were REALLY more Hippies on bikes "looking for America" than any kind'a "outlaw bikers" ya know, AND it was just a damn shame that a couple of freakin' backwater hicks in a pickup had to blow 'em away with a damn shotgun, and if you THINK about it, with THAT being just another manner of lynching...saaay, should I have placed a spoiler alert there???) 

;)

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Okay, and now where were we here?

Oh yeah...Gone with the Wind.

Eeeh, I'm tired of kickin' this dead horse around. I think I'll go take a ride instead.

(....VROOM VROOM, everybody)

LOL

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54 minutes ago, slaytonf said:

Hey Dargo!  Feel better?

LOL

A little.

BUT, I'll feel even BETTER when I see some of the folks around here acknowledge the validity of my little motorcycle movie analogy to this whole GWTW thing.

(...and why I used it to press my point)

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