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slaytonf

Gone With the Wind: Margaret Mitchell's Cautionary Tale to the south.

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Just now, TheCid said:

I just wonder if HBOMax have left it alone, there would not have been all this controversy.

Maybe, but one could see this whole thing brewing for years now.

I first remember hearing of this complaint about the film decades ago.

(...you probably did too, didn't ya?)

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GWTW is, of course, high profile film though it may be, far from the most racist film ever made. I've said this before but I think it's true: The Birth of a Nation comes barging through your front door with its racism on full display in all its raw ugliness while GWTW walks gently through the back door with its bigotry. The success of Birth encouraged the K KK to use the film as a recruiting tool in 1915. But, still, I don't think the Griffith film should be banned from viewing any more than the Selznick epic.

Both films are of their time (keep in mind that Birth was premiered just five years after Jack London started his "great white hope" campaign to return the heavyweight championship back to its "rightful" place with the white race when Jack Johnson was champ). Selznick made a point of avoiding the N word in the screenplay of his 1939 film but it was hardly enough to keep black protesters away from campaigning outside the theaters with that film's initial release.

14GONE-WIND8-articleLarge.jpg?quality=90

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

I just wonder if HBOMax have left it alone, there would not have been all this controversy.

No doubt that's true, but I'm sure they were already featuring in advertising and promotion a material as a representative film of the "TCM" part of the package well before George Floyd.

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49 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

No doubt that's true, but I'm sure they were already featuring in advertising and promotion a material as a representative film of the "TCM" part of the package well before George Floyd.

There would have been less controversy but CNN would have likely pushed this regardless since TCM and CNN are owned by the same parent company.

CNN will do anything to increase ratings and controversies like this are often just what the doctor ordered.

 

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13 hours ago, TheCid said:

No, but the movies depict tobacco use as a good thing.  So a disclaimer or wraparound is necessary.  

The point is if we start requiring disclaimers and wraparounds for one issue, we need to have them for all issues.   Just as we need them for God's Little Acre, Tobacco Road and a multitude of others.

Although the health effects of smoking are serious, they are nowhere near as dire as the pernicious effects of institutionalized racism, which include, but are in no way limited to murder, rape, extortion, coercion, mayhem, theft, and enslavement.  Movies which normalize racist stereotypes are part of a larger cultural make-up which not only tolerate, but encourage the most heinous and brutal treatment of people.  Treatment we are still witnessing today.  You are using a logical fallacy to trivialize and delegitimize valid objections to, and attempts to bring attention to these flaws in movies.

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8 hours ago, TheCid said:

I just wonder if HBOMax have left it alone, there would not have been all this controversy.

What's wrong with the controversy?  We need it to highlight the wrongs that exist in the movies.  If we don't shine a light on them as glaring flaws, they can work to perpetuate today the racism that has been contested for so long in this country.

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There is a vast difference between smoking -a free will choice- and slavery. Duh.

Racism in movies often does take me by surprise and I'm one of those involuntary "audible gasp" people. I can always feel everyone's gaze on me when one erupts out of me. Embarassing.

I want to say it was a screening of 1935's CALL OF THE WILD, the last line in the movie is Jack Oakie referring to an Inuit woman who won't leave him says, "I think I might as well keep it" was the last time I involuntarily gasped in public. 

Should the movie have a warning? Definitely offensive, but you can't warn people about every movie. Why not add "racism" to the already in place rating system? It's like any other offensive act listed "sex, language, drug use, violence" giving an R rating instead of a Gee Whiz.

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13 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

There would have been less controversy but CNN would have likely pushed this regardless since TCM and CNN are owned by the same parent company.

CNN will do anything to increase ratings and controversies like this are often just what the doctor ordered.

 

I think all media and all groups are as guilty as CNN regarding trying to increase ratings or their status in the country.

I done with this topic.

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19 hours ago, TomJH said:

Jack London started his "great white hope" campaign to return the heavyweight championship back to its "rightful" place

Had no idea Jack London was behind that! This certainly wasn't mentioned when we had to read Call of the Wild in school.

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5 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

Should the movie have a warning? Definitely offensive, but you can't warn people about every movie. Why not add "racism" to the already in place rating system? It's like any other offensive act listed "sex, language, drug use, violence" giving an R rating instead of a Gee Whiz.

I know that most movies made prior to the rating system did not end up going in for ratings, but I do fully recall that Shirley Temple's films for Fox did go in for ratings in the 1990s, and the ones with blackface scenes or derogatory racial slurs were given PGs, whereas the ones without them got Gs.

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Plus if we're talking about offensive, I think that clip from Wonder Bar that TCM shows in their interstitial about the evils of blackface is pretty  jaw droppingly racist . my eyes almost didn't believe what they were seeing.

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this is just more pc nonsense   matter of fact osborne's debut movie for tcm was GWTW

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2 minutes ago, spence said:

this is just more pc nonsense   matter of fact osborne's debut movie for tcm was GWTW

Well spence, things have changed in 25 years (at least, I know I have!).  We didn't have the internet on a wide scale in 1995.  Gay marriage and civil unions were not allowed.  I don't even think there was much talk about 'political correctness' nonsense, as you mentioned.  Over the course of the last quarter century of time, one concept that hasn't changed is 'respect', but unfortunately, that seems to be lacking in America in this present day and age.  For me anyway, if you're going to spout 'pc' and NOT have it refer to a 'personal computer', it tells me the person has lost their perspective on what the meaning of respect is.   There was a line near the end of the movie TCM showed Tuesday night in "The Unfaithful".  Lew Ayres' character was talking about marriage, but the words seem applicable to individuals too.  "It takes strength, tolerance, and understanding to build a good marriage".  Substitute the words 'good marriage' with 'people of good character', and that will start us on our way to respect...well, that's my take on it anyway.

I'm not a fan of the movie "Gone With The Wind", but mostly because I think Vivien Leigh ruins the film with her whining and privileged demeanor and how she can and does wrap all the local gents around her little finger.  Of course, that just goes to show how good her portrayal was.  Still, I don't think the film should necessarily be put into mothballs, but if there was a disclaimer posted prior to the showing of the film that it's based on a novel by a woman who did not live during the Civil War, I'd be OK with that.  Like one guy said on the news about statues from that era being replaced or vandalized, "There's nothing wrong with learning about these people and the era in which they lived.  But, that does not mean they should be blindly revered and memorialized for what they did.".

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3 minutes ago, midwestan said:

ruins the film with her whining and privileged demeanor and how she can and does wrap all the local gents around her little finger. 

Until losing Rhett at the end of the picture, that's what makes his line so great. 

 

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1 minute ago, TikiSoo said:

Until losing Rhett at the end of the picture, that's what makes his line so great. 

 

Although, Rhett Butler wasn't considered  one of the 'locals' was he?  I've only seen this film in its entirety once, so I can't remember where he was from!

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1 minute ago, TikiSoo said:

Until losing Rhett at the end of the picture, that's what makes his line so great. 

 

I'm still sincerely interested in your POV as it relates to Rhett leaving Scarlett at the end of the film,  and if you think Rhett made a mistake.    

I.e. now that Starlett realizes she no longer loves Ashley,  and has become this strong,  dependable,  capable,   women,    Rhett should have tried to give it another go.    

  

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4 minutes ago, midwestan said:

Although, Rhett Butler wasn't considered  one of the 'locals' was he?  I've only seen this film in its entirety once, so I can't remember where he was from!

I think he was supposed to be from Charleston.

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2 hours ago, midwestan said:

Although, Rhett Butler wasn't considered  one of the 'locals' was he?  I've only seen this film in its entirety once, so I can't remember where he was from!

Clark Gable is billed as "The visitor from Charleston." 

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3 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

I know that most movies made prior to the rating system did not end up going in for ratings, but I do fully recall that Shirley Temple's films for Fox did go in for ratings in the 1990s, and the ones with blackface scenes or derogatory racial slurs were given PGs, whereas the ones without them got Gs.

Reminds me of that one episode of All in the Family....

Archie: "Whites and blacks should never dance together!"

Edith: "But Shirley Temple danced with Bill Bojangles Robinson, Archie."

Archie: "Well that was when she was little and didn't know any better!"

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Reminds me of that one episode of All in the Family....

Archie: "Whites and blacks should never dance together!"

Edith: "But Shirley Temple danced with Bill Bojangles Robinson, Archie."

Archie: "Well that was when she was little and didn't know any better!"

Then there's Judy and Gene dancing with the amazing Nicholas Brothers in The Pirate

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54 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Then there's Judy and Gene dancing with the amazing Nicholas Brothers in The Pirate

True, but then again coming up with a funny line for the Bunkers to say about THAT would've been pretty hard, don't ya think speedy???  ;) 

(...sorry, couldn't resist)

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2 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Then there's Judy and Gene dancing with the amazing Nicholas Brothers in The Pirate

 

1 hour ago, Dargo said:

True, but then again coming up with a funny line for the Bunkers to say about THAT would've been pretty hard, don't ya think speedy???  ;) 

(...sorry, couldn't resist)

nicholas-brothers-02.gif

1-Archie-Bunker.jpg

"Oh, geez, I think I've got a hernia!"

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1 hour ago, TomJH said:

1-Archie-Bunker.jpg

"Oh, geez, I think I've got a hernia!"

Ok, I gotta have some standards.

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34 minutes ago, slaytonf said:

Ok, I gotta have some standards.

Sorry, skaytonf, I guess the thread has come a bit of a distance from Margaret Mitchell's cautionary tale. I promise - no more hernia jokes.

 

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