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I belong to a couple of Face Book film groups - and I still find it disturbing- that when ever there is a gay theme post you always get negative homophobic comments- and it's not like I post x rated images but just a scene with two men kissing sends some people off.  Any thoughts?

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14 minutes ago, jaragon said:

I belong to a couple of Face Book film groups - and I still find it disturbing- that when ever there is a gay theme post you always get negative homophobic comments- and it's not like I post x rated images but just a scene with two men kissing sends some people off.  Any thoughts?

They feel threatened, because for years they've been trying to put LGBTQ people down. And now it's politically incorrect to do that. So their whole way of operating is under attack. In frustration they are attacking you (or your posted content) to get even. Hardline bashers are going to keep clinging to their antique notions. Don't let them prevent you from making the posts you see fit to post.

They're like little kids throwing temper tantrums. They're unreasonable and they cannot be allowed to dictate to anyone.

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9 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

They feel threatened, because for years they've been trying to put LGBTQ people down. And now it's politically incorrect to do that. So their whole way of operating is under attack. In frustration they are attacking you (or your posted content) to get even. Hardline bashers are going to keep clinging to their antique notions. Don't let them prevent you from making the posts you see fit to post.

They're like little kids throwing temper tantrums. They're unreasonable and they cannot be allowed to dictate to anyone.

I agree with you and I should not let homophobic idiots silence me- but at the same time I'm not crazy about reading their nasty comments- for example when I poster images of Ramon Novarro and state that he was a gay man- I get comment like "who cares" ?!  But of course it is important to reclaim  Hollywood history.  

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1 hour ago, jaragon said:

I agree with you and I should not let homophobic idiots silence me- but at the same time I'm not crazy about reading their nasty comments- for example when I poster images of Ramon Novarro and state that he was a gay man- I get comment like "who cares" ?!  But of course it is important to reclaim  Hollywood history.  

I agree 100%.

Recently on the General Discussions board here at TCM City, I mentioned in a thread that Jlewis and I will be reviewing four episodes of The Streets of San Francisco in September as part of our ongoing Essentials reviews. I provided a basic plot synopsis for each episode, to get people interested in joining us when we cover those episodes. Anyway, one of the episodes focuses on a gay cop that is forced out of the closet because a criminal who figured out he's gay is blackmailing him.

A short time later, some ignoramus chimed in and told me that it's no longer June (pride month) and nobody needs to talk about gays on a television show.

I replied back that LGBTQ stories should be discussed all year round, along with everything else.

So you have to cut them off at the pass and prevent them from trying to silence discussions about the LGBTQ community. Their goal is to force people back into the closet.

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7 hours ago, TopBilled said:

I agree 100%.

Recently on the General Discussions board here at TCM City, I mentioned in a thread that Jlewis and I will be reviewing four episodes of The Streets of San Francisco in September as part of our ongoing Essentials reviews. I provided a basic plot synopsis for each episode, to get people interested in joining us when we cover those episodes. Anyway, one of the episodes focuses on a gay cop that is forced out of the closet because a criminal who figured out he's gay is blackmailing him.

A short time later, some ignoramus chimed in and told me that it's no longer June (pride month) and nobody needs to talk about gays on a television show.

I replied back that LGBTQ stories should be discussed all year round, along with everything else.

So you have to cut them off at the pass and prevent them from trying to silence discussions about the LGBTQ community. Their goal is to force people back into the closet.

Yes I agree.

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I don't remember  the episode about the gay cop in "The Streets of San Francisco" but I could not forget the one with John Davidson as the drag queen killer

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56 minutes ago, jaragon said:

I don't remember  the episode about the gay cop in "The Streets of San Francisco" but I could not forget the one with John Davidson as the drag queen killer

How cool you posted this! Jlewis and I will be covering this one. In fact we already watched it and wrote some notes. I agree, it's a classic episode...one of the series' most memorable stories. And Davidson is nothing short of sensational. 

Our theme in September is Small Screen Noir. These are the episodes we'll be going over:

September 5: The Streets of San Francisco: Mask of Death (1974). Featuring Karl Malden, Michael Douglas, John Davidson & Herb Edelman. Season 3, Episode 4.

September 12: The Streets of San Francisco: The Programming of Charlie Blake (1975). Featuring Karl Malden, Michael Douglas, Dean Stockwell & William Smithers. Season 3, Episode 19.

September 19: The Streets of San Francisco: Who Killed Helen French? (1977). Featuring Karl Malden, Richard Hatch, Marlyn Mason & Alan Fudge. Season 5, Episode 14.

September 26: The Streets of San Francisco: A Good Cop...But (1977). Featuring Karl Malden, Richard Hatch, Barry Primus & Robert Walden. Season 5, Episode 15.

***

The last one is the story about the gay cop, played by Barry Primus. All of these episodes may currently be viewed on YouTube.

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35 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

How cool you posted this! Jlewis and I will be covering this one. In fact we already watched it and wrote some notes. I agree, it's a classic episode...one of the series' most memorable stories. And Davidson is nothing short of sensational. 

Our theme in September is Small Screen Noir. These are the episodes we'll be going over:

September 5: The Streets of San Francisco: Mask of Death (1974). Featuring Karl Malden, Michael Douglas, John Davidson & Herb Edelman. Season 3, Episode 4.

September 12: The Streets of San Francisco: The Programming of Charlie Blake (1975). Featuring Karl Malden, Michael Douglas, Dean Stockwell & William Smithers. Season 3, Episode 19.

September 19: The Streets of San Francisco: Who Killed Helen French? (1977). Featuring Karl Malden, Richard Hatch, Marlyn Mason & Alan Fudge. Season 5, Episode 14.

September 26: The Streets of San Francisco: A Good Cop...But (1977). Featuring Karl Malden, Richard Hatch, Barry Primus & Robert Walden. Season 5, Episode 15.

***

The last one is the story about the gay cop, played by Barry Primus. All of these episodes may currently be viewed on YouTube.

My parents were big fans of this show- I think my mother had a crush of Mike Douglas- so we watched it all the time- the psycho drag queen must have really disturbed me when I first saw that episode- I will check out the gay cop episode

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4 minutes ago, jaragon said:

My parents were big fans of this show- I think my mother had a crush of Mike Douglas- so we watched it all the time- the psycho drag queen must have really disturbed me when I first saw that episode- I will check out the gay cop episode

Will be interested to find out your impressions after you've seen it. Primus does a decent job in the role.

There's sort of a subplot where he is crushing on his straight partner (Robert Walden).

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10 hours ago, jaragon said:

I agree with you and I should not let homophobic idiots silence me- but at the same time I'm not crazy about reading their nasty comments- for example when I poster images of Ramon Novarro and state that he was a gay man- I get comment like "who cares" ?!  But of course it is important to reclaim  Hollywood history.  

I wouldn't view a "who cares"  as being a "negative homophobic comment" or a "nasty comment".      Some folks just actually believe in the over all concept of "who cares",  especially as it relates to actors, artist, musicians  etc....   That what 'group' they were in doesn't impact the work;    I.e. they just want to view these actors, artist,  musicians etc..  by their work and if they are gay,  committed crimes,  were sexist,,,,  "who cares".

I tend to be one of them.     Note that it appears progressives are now caring too-much with the cancel culture.     I just don't agree with the current 'vibe' that one has to be with them all-the-way or one is against them by default. 

But hey,  I don't like the group-ID concept to begin with;   E.g. I don't view myself as a heterosexual man and I view myself as a man only from a biological perspective not from a society gender norms perspective.    

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7 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I wouldn't view a "who cares"  as being a "negative homophobic comment" or a "nasty comment".      Some folks just actually believe in the over all concept of "who cares",  especially as it relates to actors, artist, musicians  etc....   That what 'group' they were in doesn't impact the work;    I.e. they just want to view these actors, artist,  musicians etc..  by their work and if they are gay,  committed crimes,  were sexist,,,,  "who cares".

I tend to be one of them.     Note that it appears progressives are now caring too-much with the cancel culture.     I just don't agree with the current 'vibe' that one has to be with them all-the-way or one is against them by default. 

But hey,  I don't like the group-ID concept to begin with;   E.g. I don't view myself as a heterosexual man and I view myself as a man only from a biological perspective not from a society gender norms perspective.    

I understand what you are saying. For some it's just casual dismissal, like "no big deal" or "whatever." But for others, it's ongoing rudeness and disrespectfulness. And homophobia.

Anyhow, to be fair, James, we haven't seen all the comments that jaragon is referencing. I would imagine jaragon has had continuous dealings with the individual in question. It may be happening every time he posts a photo or makes a comment, since it prompted him to create this thread to vent. If that's the case, then he's dealing with someone who is actively on the attack.

I guess we'll have to see what jaragon says when he returns to this conversation.

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13 hours ago, TopBilled said:

I understand what you are saying. For some it's just casual dismissal, like "no big deal" or "whatever." But for others, it's ongoing rudeness and disrespectfulness. And homophobia.

Anyhow, to be fair, James, we haven't seen all the comments that jaragon is referencing. I would imagine jaragon has had continuous dealings with the individual in question. It may be happening every time he posts a photo or makes a comment, since it prompted him to create this thread to vent. If that's the case, then he's dealing with someone who is actively on the attack.

I guess we'll have to see what jaragon says when he returns to this conversation.

Yea,  sadly when some folks imply 'who cares' they are being dismissive and thus rude and disrespectful.   

And of course there are many incidences where one's group-identity does impact their work,  sometimes in a very significant way;   E.g.   the career ark of Dirk Bogarde when he took on the role in Victim.      Any type of 'who care' response to something like that I would consider dismissive and misguided (at best).

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Yea,  sadly when some folks imply 'who cares' they are being dismissive and thus rude and disrespectful.   

And of course there are many incidences where one's group-identity does impact their work,  sometimes in a very significant way;   E.g.   the career ark of Dirk Bogarde when took on the role in Victim.      Any type of 'who care' response to something like that I would consider dismissive and misguided (at best).

 

 

 

You make some good points- but it really depends on the tone of the "who cares" ?  It can imply that an actors sexuality should not matter if one admires their work on screen but it can also mean they don't want to hear about their true sexual orientation- ( I've gotten this when I've posted images of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott in their "bachelor pad" )  I posted an image from "All Quiet on the Western Front" of two soldiers kissing in the barracks- which was too explicit for some people- but I have poster other images in which the gay subtext has been more subtle - but it's obviously there is you look and have gotten less of a negative response.

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14 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Will be interested to find out your impressions after you've seen it. Primus does a decent job in the role.

There's sort of a subplot where he is crushing on his straight partner (Robert Walden).

I saw both shows last night on You tube- the gay cop show is surprisingly progressive for it's time. I wonder if the writer was gay.  The homosexual cop is presented as hero and victim of prejudice .Primus is very good as the gay cop- of course he never does anything actually gay.  I thought the relationship with is straight partner Walden was really interesting- I wish this had actually been a tv movie.  They have an obvious bromantic relatioship but to me Walden is the one who has the crush on his gay partner.  I really wish the story had kept going .    The "Mask of Death" episode is a really effective thriller. Davidson is really scary in his killer drag queen persona.  Notice that he is presented as a straight man with a girlfriend.  Michael Douglas looks very sexy in this episode

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16 minutes ago, jaragon said:

You make some good points- but it really depends on the tone of the "who cares" ?  It can imply that an actors sexuality should not matter if one admires their work on screen but it can also mean they don't want to hear about their true sexual orientation- ( I've gotten this when I've posted images of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott in their "bachelor pad" )  I posted an image from "All Quiet on the Western Front" of two soldiers kissing in the barracks- which was too explicit for some people- but I have poster other images in which the gay subtext has been more subtle - but it's obviously there is you look and have gotten less of a negative response.

Part of this is realizing who your intended audience is. Yeah?

I love soap operas. During Covid a former press agent for some of the old Procter & Gamble soaps has been doing live interviews on YouTube (that are archived after they end, for re-watching). He's had a lot of actors from the shows he worked on, as well as writers. People who only did a few years on a soap, people who are legends in the daytime industry, all kinds of people. He's very well connected, and he's probably around 40 to 45. So he's kind of hip, but not too young and not too old.

I've enjoyed many of the interviews he has done and he has a few new ones coming up I am looking forward to seeing, whether I catch them live or on playback. 

Anyway, the guy is definitely out of the closet and he's proud of who he is. But sometimes it seems like he has "too much" of a gay agenda. Like an actress may be talking about going to the park with her child, and he chimes in about how he went to the park yesterday with his husband. Stuff where he has to continually remind the audience he's gay and that he's out and married to a man. As if they couldn't already figure it out!

I get the feeling that in some of the interviews, even though he is married, he is attracted to some of the male actors he's interviewing. And they might be closeted, or he thinks they swing both ways. When that is in evidence, it's like he's working over time to draw them "out" so to speak.

So what is his audience? is he able to stay on topic and to integrate who he is and what he likes with a discussion that may not need to reference LGBTQ stuff at all? See what I am saying?

You can have a socially conscious agenda, and legitimately want to discuss LGBTQ issues, but if you get too heavy handed about it, there might be a backlash. You have to consider all of your audience when you are airing views online.

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9 minutes ago, jaragon said:

I saw both shows last night on You tube- the gay cop show is surprisingly progressive for it's time. I wonder if the writer was gay.  The homosexual cop is presented as hero and victim of prejudice .Primus is very good as the gay cop- of course he never does anything actually gay.  I thought the relationship with is straight partner Walden was really interesting- I wish this had actually been a tv movie.  They have an obvious bromantic relatioship but to me Walden is the one who has the crush on his gay partner.  I really wish the story had kept going .    The "Mask of Death" episode is a really effective thriller. Davidson is really scary in his killer drag queen persona.  Notice that he is presented as a straight man with a girlfriend.  Michael Douglas looks very sexy in this episode

I am going to have to share this comment with Jlewis. I will tell him to come look at this thread. 

The gay cop episode was done near the end. It was left open-ended, so it would have been interesting if there had been another season and we had seen Primus & Walden return as the same characters. They easily could have been spun off on to their own series, since they are very well established within the framework of this episode. 

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There is an old (Michael Moriarty) episode of Law and Order where no one comes to the rescue of a gay cop (he died).  Stone loses the case.  

I also watched soaps (loved James Mitchell - and he probably was gay, but to see him act and to watch him dance - many people may forget he is in The Bandwagon and The Turning Point, as well as the ballet part of Oklahoma).  For some reason, I continue to watch General Hospital (which has had gay as well as African American characters).  But I still can't understand why Mumbles Monoco is on (she may be a nice person but she can't act).

I do not believe Kevin Kline is bisexual, however, I think he and Tom Selleck make a cute couple in In and Out.  I also find the film clips at the Oscars funny.

Speaking of Mr. Selleck, there is a Blue Bloods episode where Mark Blucas is an actor who is in the closet and he rides with Danny Regan.

As for some celebrities not only promoting their "pansexuality" but using it as an agenda, I feel that way about that guy on Younger (cute show, but, like Suits, you can back yourself into a corner).  Peter H. (married to Mariska H. in real life) does double duty - on Younger and Blue Bloods.  Nice to see such an integrated cast on The Rookie (which ran into series problems after season 1).  The younger African American rookie is gay and his relationship(s) is being treated as any other on the show (there are at least two other interracial relationships - where one is white and one is not.

Excuse typos.  I am a strong advocate for LGBTQ rights although I'm happily hetero (for lack of a better term) all year long.  It is the same way I feel about any other group that gets singled out for a month.

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8 minutes ago, chaya bat woof woof said:

There is an old (Michael Moriarty) episode of Law and Order where no one comes to the rescue of a gay cop (he died).  Stone loses the case.  

I also watched soaps (loved James Mitchell - and he probably was gay, but to see him act and to watch him dance - many people may forget he is in The Bandwagon and The Turning Point, as well as the ballet part of Oklahoma).  For some reason, I continue to watch General Hospital (which has had gay as well as African American characters).  But I still can't understand why Mumbles Monoco is on (she may be a nice person but she can't act).

I do not believe Kevin Kline is bisexual, however, I think he and Tom Selleck make a cute couple in In and Out.  I also find the film clips at the Oscars funny.

Speaking of Mr. Selleck, there is a Blue Bloods episode where Mark Blucas is an actor who is in the closet and he rides with Danny Regan.

As for some celebrities not only promoting their "pansexuality" but using it as an agenda, I feel that way about that guy on Younger (cute show, but, like Suits, you can back yourself into a corner).  Peter H. (married to Mariska H. in real life) does double duty - on Younger and Blue Bloods.  Nice to see such an integrated cast on The Rookie (which ran into series problems after season 1).  The younger African American rookie is gay and his relationship(s) is being treated as any other on the show (there are at least two other interracial relationships - where one is white and one is not.

Excuse typos.  I am a strong advocate for LGBTQ rights although I'm happily hetero (for lack of a better term) all year long.  It is the same way I feel about any other group that gets singled out for a month.

You would be considered a gay ally.   James Mitchell was gay

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3 minutes ago, jaragon said:

You would be considered a gay ally.  

Is that what they call it? How about a supporter of LGBTQ people...? :) 

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34 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I am going to have to share this comment with Jlewis. I will tell him to come look at this thread. 

The gay cop episode was done near the end. It was left open-ended, so it would have been interesting if there had been another season and we had seen Primus & Walden return as the same characters. They easily could have been spun off on to their own series, since they are very well established within the framework of this episode. 

That would have been an interesting show- Primus and Walden as partners.  I have re-watch the episode-Walden is straight but is he married?  He seems to live with his sister ?! I love the scene in which Primus ends up on the staked out with Richard Hatch -( who is cute but was not Michael Douglas hot. )   I can see Walden and Primus is bed well that might have been to progressive for the 1970s tv

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7 minutes ago, jaragon said:

That would have been an interesting show- Primus and Walden as partners.  I have re-watch the episode-Walden is straight but is he married?  He seems to live with his sister ?! I love the scene in which Primus ends up on the staked out with Richard Hatch -( who is cute but was not Michael Douglas hot. )   I can see Walden and Primus is bed well that might have been to progressive for the 1970s tv

I don't think Walden is married in the episode. He has a bunch of sisters. When the episode begins, he wants to set one of his sisters up with Primus (the sister already knows Primus is gay). Jlewis and I discussed some of this. My take is that Primus wants to marry into the family, but he would want to marry Walden, not any of the sisters!

Another thing I discussed with Jlewis is how Richard Hatch does as a replacement for Michael Douglas. I think Douglas was better at the friendly sarcasm between his character Steve Keller and Lieutenant Mike Stone (Karl Malden). Hatch by comparison seems a bit stuff and uncomfortable sometimes. 

One thing I didn't realize is how short Michael Douglas is, or maybe it is that Malden is so tall he towers over him in scenes. Hatch is also tall like Malden. I think Hatch has a more rugged quality, and he seems like a nice guy. And with only just one season, he didn't have the same amount of time that Douglas had to grow into the role. But I prefer Douglas as Stone's young college-educated sidekick.

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7 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I don't think Walden is married in the episode. He has a bunch of sisters. When the episode begins, he wants to set one of his sisters up with Primus (the sister already knows Primus is gay). Jlewis and I discussed some of this. My take is that Primus wants to marry into the family, but he would want to marry Walden, not any of the sisters!

Another thing I discussed with Jlewis is how Richard Hatch does as a replacement for Michael Douglas. I think Douglas was better at the friendly sarcasm between his character Steve Keller and Lieutenant Mike Stone (Karl Malden). Hatch by comparison seems a bit stuff and uncomfortable sometimes. 

One thing I didn't realize is how short Michael Douglas is, or maybe it is that Malden is so tall he towers over him in scenes. Hatch is also tall like Malden. I think Hatch has a more rugged quality, and he seems like a nice guy. And with only just one season, he didn't have the same amount of time that Douglas had to grow into the role. But I prefer Douglas as Stone's young college-educated sidekick.

I think Walden is in love with Primus. His reaction to the cop that outs Primus  in the bar is more like "how dare you say anything about my boyfriend.  Hatch is cute but this was like his first tv series role.

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2 hours ago, jaragon said:

I think Walden is in love with Primus. His reaction to the cop that outs Primus  in the bar is more like "how dare you say anything about my boyfriend.  Hatch is cute but this was like his first tv series role.

I interpreted it as Walden was offended that anyone would think his "straight" partner was gay. He wanted to maintain the delusion that Primus could be a straight brother to him, marrying into his family, etc.

Re: Hatch. At least the producers continued with the idea that Stone's partner should be handsome and fashionably dressed...though not sure how practical it is having him run down the street after bad guys in Gucci shoes.

I think Malden enjoyed working with Hatch, just as much as he enjoyed working with Douglas.

Screen Shot 2020-07-16 at 10.03.21 AM

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