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A-bomb ended World War II, but set stage for the Cold War


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9 hours ago, hamradio said:

It's called "Bait and Bleed" when you have to deal with 2 equally evil regimes.  The strategy both  won't be a greater threat in the future.  

I understand his rationale but Germany was clearly the aggressor against every country it fought against, including France and England. 

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https://consortiumnews.com/2020/08/03/atomic-bombings-at-75-john-pilger-another-hiroshima-is-coming-unless-we-stop-it-now/

ATOMIC BOMBINGS AT 75: John Pilger — Another Hiroshima is Coming — Unless We Stop It Now

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of premeditated mass murder unleashing a weapon of intrinsic criminality. It was justified by lies that form the bedrock of 21st century U.S. war propaganda, casting a new enemy, and target – China.

By John Pilger
in Sydney, Australia

 

When I first went to Hiroshima in 1967, the shadow on the steps was still there. It was an almost perfect impression of a human being at ease: legs splayed, back bent, one hand by her side as she sat waiting for a bank to open.

At a quarter past eight on the morning of August 6, 1945, she and her silhouette were burned into the granite.

I stared at the shadow for an hour or more, then I walked down to the river where the survivors still lived in shanties.

I met a man called Yukio, whose chest was etched with the pattern of the shirt he was wearing when the atomic bomb was dropped.

 

He described a huge flash over the city, “a bluish light, something like an electrical short”, after which wind blew like a tornado and black rain fell. “I was thrown on the ground and noticed only the stalks of my flowers were left. Everything was still and quiet, and when I got up, there were people naked, not saying anything. Some of them had no skin or hair. I was certain I was dead.”

Nine years later, I returned to look for him and he was dead from leukemia.

 

“No Radioactivity in Hiroshima Ruin” said a New York Times headline on September 13, 1945, a classic of planted disinformation. “General Farrell,” reported William H. Lawrence, “denied categorically that [the atomic bomb] produced a dangerous, lingering radioactivity.” 

Only one reporter, Wilfred Burchett, an Australian, had braved the perilous journey to Hiroshima in the immediate aftermath of the atomic bombing, in defiance of the Allied occupation authorities, which controlled the “press pack”.

 

“I write this as a warning to the world,” reported Burchett in the London Daily Express of September 5,1945. Sitting in the rubble with his Baby Hermes typewriter, he described hospital wards filled with people with no visible injuries who were dying from what he called “an atomic plague”.

For this, his press accreditation was withdrawn, he was pilloried and smeared. His witness to the truth was never forgiven.

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1 hour ago, TheCid said:

FDR had NOTHING to do with what happened in Eastern Europe after WW  II.  Many of the people in the affected countries had been under poverty, slave labor and dictatorships for hundreds of years before Stalin.  There was absolutely nothing FDR or Churchill or DeGaul or anyone else could have done to prevent the Soviet Unions expansion.

Bush Apologizes for FDR’s Sellout at Yalta

Thank you, President Bush, for correcting history and making a long overdue apology for one of President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s tragic mistakes. Speaking in Latvia on May 7, Bush repudiated “the agreement at Yalta” by which powerful governments negotiated away the freedom of small nations.

Bush accurately blamed Yalta for “the captivity of millions in Central and Eastern Europe” and said it “will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history.” This admission has been 50 years coming, and Bush’s words assure that “the legacy of Yalta was finally buried, once and for all.”

It was at Yalta, a filthy Russian port on the Black Sea, where our dying President in February 1945 made a secret agreement with Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin to surrender millions of people to Communist oppression behind what Churchill a year later labeled the Iron Curtain.

*****************************************************

Since democrats love Bush now, it must be true.  Yes, FDR sold away the lives of millions of people.

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Re:

ATOMIC BOMBINGS AT 75: John Pilger — Another Hiroshima is Coming — Unless We Stop It Now

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of premeditated mass murder unleashing a weapon of intrinsic criminality. It was justified by lies that form the bedrock of 21st century U.S. war propaganda, casting a new enemy, and target – China.

By John Pilger
in Sydney, Australia

 

John Pilger should had been at Bataan. Oh they were so nice to us.

22432066-standard.jpg

 

(Like to whistle the theme of "The Bridge on the River Kwai" but the old AB's Department store keeps ringing in my head. :wacko:)

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16 hours ago, GGGGerald said:

Hmmm, Republican president (Hoover) during a major crisis (The Great Depression). Does nothing about it. And the Dems get four straight terms.

I wonder if history is repeating itself :lol:

We'll know in a little while. It's hard to see the same political party holding the office for four straight terms,

especially today.

 

Looking back from today, it's hard to believe that the U.S. stayed out of WWI and WWII for so long. Today

we'd likely be in on day one. 

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5 hours ago, MovieMadness said:

Bush Apologizes for FDR’s Sellout at Yalta

Thank you, President Bush, for correcting history and making a long overdue apology for one of President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s tragic mistakes. Speaking in Latvia on May 7, Bush repudiated “the agreement at Yalta” by which powerful governments negotiated away the freedom of small nations.

Bush accurately blamed Yalta for “the captivity of millions in Central and Eastern Europe” and said it “will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history.” This admission has been 50 years coming, and Bush’s words assure that “the legacy of Yalta was finally buried, once and for all.”

It was at Yalta, a filthy Russian port on the Black Sea, where our dying President in February 1945 made a secret agreement with Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin to surrender millions of people to Communist oppression behind what Churchill a year later labeled the Iron Curtain.

*****************************************************

Since democrats love Bush now, it must be true.  Yes, FDR sold away the lives of millions of people.

More lies and distortions of history.  FDR did not sell out the people in Eastern and Central Europe as they were already destined to come under the control of the Soviet Union.  Nothing the US nor UK could do about it.  FDR and Churchill made the best deal possible.  

Since there is no reference to what you said above, which damn Bush are speaking about?  If G.W., he was dumb as a box of rocks.  Incidentally your post says that Bush spoke in Latvia on May 7.  This year?  

Of course, GW Bush was that brave guy who used political/business influence of his father to get into the TX National Guard, then OCS and then Flight School so he could avoid serving in Vietnam.  Sounds like Cadet Bonespurs.

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A democrat let communism spread to Eastern Europe.

A democrat put the Japanese in internment camps.

A democrat dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese.

I know democrats want to forget all this.

A democrat started the Vietnam war.

A democrat let ISIS spread all over the middle East.

A republican ended the Cold War.

A republican ended the spread of ISIS.

History is a sad day for democrats.

 

 

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Very selective view of history I must say.  Blinkers on.  Hopeless.  Everything in the world is seen as Republican vs. Democrat.  Pathetic.

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3 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Very selective view of history I must say.  Blinkers on.  Hopeless.  Everything in the world is seen as Republican vs. Democrat.  Pathetic.

FDR did imprison the Japanese though. He did all of that, If he were to come back and enact his same policies today, he would be viewed like Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin. He'd be considered farther right than Trump. It's just a bit odd that politicians like Bernie would try to downplay that.

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9 hours ago, Sukhov said:

FDR did imprison the Japanese though. He did all of that, If he were to come back and enact his same policies today, he would be viewed like Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin. He'd be considered farther right than Trump. It's just a bit odd that politicians like Bernie would try to downplay that.

 FDR's own speech about "The only thing to fear is fear itself" seem to added fearing a race / culture.

Maybe he should had interned the whites as well because that what the Germans were. :wacko:

But you'll hardly hear Democrats criticize  THAT racist act from their beloved president.  Double standards, never ends.

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10 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Prohibition started under a Republican president, ended under a Democratic president.

Case closed. 

Hoover did said it was a noble experiment but when one tries to regulate people's behavior in  a free society,  well that definitely doesn't work.  History will always repeat on that.

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LOL presidents are Not involved in the amendment process.  It’s 100% pure legislative process (Congress and the State legislatures).  Trying to credit or blame presidents is ridiculous, because they literally do nothing when amendments happen.

Also I should note: The Prohibition Amendment was bipartisan because it won a SUPER majority of both Republicans and Democrats in Congress.

plus 46 of 48 states.

one of the most bipartisan/widely supported amendments ever created.

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7 hours ago, hamradio said:

Hoover did said it was a noble experiment but when one tries to regulate people's behavior in  a free society,  well that definitely doesn't work.  History will always repeat on that.

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Yeah, you can always count on Americans to display massive stupidity.

That's what makes this ****hole country so entertaining.

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21 hours ago, MovieMadness said:

 

A democrat started the Vietnam war.

A republican ended the Cold War.

 

Other items are not worth commenting upon, but these two particularly need rebuttal.

1.  The Vietnamese started the Vietnam War against the French.  While Truman did not counter the French returning after WW II, neither did the Republican Congresses who also authorized money for the French.  Eisenhower also increased support for the French.  AND his Republican Sec. of State also offered TWO NUCLEAR bombs for relief of Dien Bien Phu.                                                                                                                                                       Also,  Republican president (Eisenhower) and  Republican Congress left it up to the Democrats to try and resolve the conflict in Vietnam.   Republicans sent huge military and economic aid to the South Vietnamese government for the Vietnam War.  

2.  A Russian ended the Cold War or you could say the Russian people did.  The Republican just added massively to the US national debt and deficit and created a military-industrial-political complex worse than any ever seen before.  AND it still exists and is getting worse.

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No it was DEBT that ended the Soviet Union because they were trying to keep-up with Reagan’s huge military.  The USA could handle the massive spending but the USSR could not.  They spent themselves into bankruptcy (and the edifice collapsed & was replaced by the democratic Russian Federation).  

- BTW when looking at debt nothing compares to the $9 trillion added by Obama.  Essentially double what Bush had done (and quadruple Reagan).   

“It’s unpatriotic!” - Senator Obama while campaigning

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51 minutes ago, Davehat said:

No it was DEBT that ended the Soviet Union because they were trying to keep-up with Reagan’s huge military.  The USA could handle the massive spending but the USSR could not.  They spent themselves into bankruptcy (and the edifice collapsed & was replaced by the democratic Russian Federation).  

- BTW when looking at debt nothing compares to the $9 trillion added by Obama.  Essentially double what Bush had done (and quadruple Reagan).   

 

Regardless, a Republican president did not end the Cold War, the Russians did.

As for the national debt, it has increased far more dramatically under just 3 years of Trump than it did under 8 years of Obama.  ALSO - and most important.  Presidents do NOT create debt, Congress does.  AND the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for last six of Obama's eight years.  So Republicans created the debt under Obama.

In addition, a major part of the national debt is the interest that accrues and the interest that accrued under Obama was created by the massive debt/borrowing under Reagan and both Bushes.

The current national debt and deficit were massively increased under Trump because of large tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.  Coupled in by enormous spending on Defense, Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security.  Of course, the Dems bear part of the blame for this, but Trump, McConnell and the GOPers that controlled the House and Senate pushed it hard.

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4 hours ago, TheCid said:

Regardless, a Republican president did not end the Cold War, the Russians did.

As for the national debt, it has increased far more dramatically under just 3 years of Trump than it did under 8 years of Obama.  ALSO - and most important.  Presidents do NOT create debt, Congress does.  AND the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for last six of Obama's eight years.  So Republicans created the debt under Obama.

In addition, a major part of the national debt is the interest that accrues and the interest that accrued under Obama was created by the massive debt/borrowing under Reagan and both Bushes.

The current national debt and deficit were massively increased under Trump because of large tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.  Coupled in by enormous spending on Defense, Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security.  Of course, the Dems bear part of the blame for this, but Trump, McConnell and the GOPers that controlled the House and Senate pushed it hard.

Well said;    I believe a lot of this discussion is based on the foolish assumption that a President is a King;  I.e.  overstating their power and influence.      (not by you who understands the limits and balance of power between the branches).

E.g.  Fox News latest attempt to help Trump get re-elected;   To claim that "Ok,  Trump has flaws,,, he has issues,,,",   BUT,   while Biden has traditionally been a "moderate",   Biden will put into place all of these far-left policies because he has to appease the far-left wing of the Dem party;   (yea,  Biden will govern like A.O.C.!,,  so run for the hills!!!!).

 Laura Ingraham listed a bunch of items,   like the Green New Deal,  defunding of police departments,   releasing almost everyone from prison, etc... and finally,  reparation. 

NOT!    A President can't implement these (especially defunding of police) and even if the Dems get a majority in the Senate,   there will still be enough Dem moderates in both the House and Senate that none of these items would pass and if the bills were too-far left Biden would likely veto them.       

 

 

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On 8/3/2020 at 1:27 PM, Princess of Tap said:

Democratic Socialism is not what the Soviet Union had. I worked in a country that had democratic socialism and it was wonderful. It's called France.

Democratic socialism is all over Europe. And people have wonderful lives over there.

I don't feel like defining all of these issues for you.

But you should know by now that Democratic socialism has been in the United Kingdom since the end of World War II.

It's also a lovely place, you should go and visit there sometime too.

People too(and too many people) still confuse communism and socialism with forms of governmental operation and not systems of economics, which they both merely are.

Neither communism OR socialism call for suppression of religion or controlling the population with martial law. They are both "pie in the sky" Utopian concepts that call for the equal sharing of all wealth. They both look good on paper only.  Most seem to forget that countries that have or had either system of economics became totalitarian due to them being ruled by PEOPLE, who are never free from being corruptible.  

And I think there are still people who actually believe that the United States played no role in bringing about the "sneak attack" on Pearl Harbor.   

Sepiatone

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34 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

People too(and too many people) still confuse communism and socialism with forms of governmental operation and not systems of economics, which they both merely are.

Neither communism OR socialism call for suppression of religion or controlling the population with martial law. They are both "pie in the sky" Utopian concepts that call for the equal sharing of all wealth. They both look good on paper only.  Most seem to forget that countries that have or had either system of economics became totalitarian due to them being ruled by PEOPLE, who are never free from being corruptible.  

And I think there are still people who actually believe that the United States played no role in bringing about the "sneak attack" on Pearl Harbor.   

Sepiatone

Most of Europe is currently democratic socialist and they are not totalitarian societies.  Finalnd?  Denmark?

Libraries, Firefighters ... these are all "socialist" entities.

 

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43 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

People too(and too many people) still confuse communism and socialism with forms of governmental operation and not systems of economics, which they both merely are.

Neither communism OR socialism call for suppression of religion or controlling the population with martial law. They are both "pie in the sky" Utopian concepts that call for the equal sharing of all wealth. They both look good on paper only.  Most seem to forget that countries that have or had either system of economics became totalitarian due to them being ruled by PEOPLE, who are never free from being corruptible.  

And I think there are still people who actually believe that the United States played no role in bringing about the "sneak attack" on Pearl Harbor.   

Sepiatone

You need to catch up on history!

 

Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

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I found this interesting.  Pure Christianity as taught by Jesus Christ could be interpreted as Communism or Socialism in their purest forms.   The problem is that there never has been a pure Communist country as they all became dictatorships run by flawed and often corrupt men.

There is a school of thought that organized religions are tools of the rich and the governments in capitalist countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion.  Christian communism can be seen as a radical form of Christian socialism. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, created their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

In Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, Friedrich Engels draws a certain analogy between the sort of utopian communalism of some of the early Christian communities and the modern-day communist movement, the scientific communist movement representing the proletariat in this era and its world historic transformation of society. Engels noted both certain similarities and certain contrasts.

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20 minutes ago, MovieMadness said:

Addition:

A democrat let Bin laden terrorize the United States and did nothing about it, setting up the 9-11 attack. Monica was more important apparently.

Which President was reading to a bunch of little kids when the towers were hit?  What a maroon.

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The deficit was getting under control during the last years of the Clinton administration, then Dumbya

and the Republicans in Congress decided the gov't didn't need any extra money and screwed it all up.

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