Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

A companion pc to my post on THE GREATEST WESTERN HEROES WHO WAS THE BEST WYATT EARP & DOC HOLLIDAY?


Recommended Posts

My vote is close between cinemas all-time finest

& most accurate WYATT EARP & DOC HOLLIDAY  HENRY FONDA in MY DARLING CLEMENTINE, WITH KEVIN COSTNER a runner up in WYATT EARP & as for HOLLIDAY  VAL KILMER most be knighted as the most on the $money$ screen version of him

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spence said:

My vote is close between cinemas all-time finest

& most accurate WYATT EARP & DOC HOLLIDAY  HENRY FONDA in MY DARLING CLEMENTINE, WITH KEVIN COSTNER a runner up in WYATT EARP & as for HOLLIDAY  VAL KILMER in TOMBSTONE most be knighted as the most on the $money$ screen version of him

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

By the way, Val is a very sick man thesedays, coming back from CANCER and all, but mentally he's not all there anymore & sad

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

From 1955:  Burt and Kirk's Gunfight at the at the OK Corral.  Seemingly total opposites they bring out the best in each other and stand together against a common foe.  Even if Earp and Holliday are played as cleaner than they really were, this is still my favorite Western for so many reasons:  Great acting by stars and supporting cast, a Dimetri Tiomkin  score with Frankie Laine singing the theme, Leon Uris script, colorful scenery and beautiful costumes.   The life of a lawman is shown not as glamorous but not much different from today with the families and other loved ones paying a stiff price to share their lives.  The abusive love/hate relationship between Doc and Kate can  definitely not  be condoned by modern standards but according to history is fairly accurate.   This is truly an "adult" Western where family ties decide which side of the law the characters stand and the consequences they face.    

That said, both the Kevin Costner and Kurt Russell versions are probably more factual as the Earp brothers are not portrayed as saints which they assuredly  were not.  Hour of the Gun,  which John Sturges made some years after Gunfight, shows that Holliday and the Earps became wanted men themselves as not everybody thought they were right in what they did.  

In My Darling Clementine, Doc-Victor Mature-is killed in the fight, which did not happen, so I suppose inaccuracies occurred  in all the films under "historical license".  With Henry Fonda and Walter Brennan also in the mix, I guess you just sit back and enjoy the ride.  While I still think I have a better horse than my fellow Tampa Bay resident, his is well worth the watch.

Other posters and I have recommended Dawn at Succoro, starring Rory Calhoun and Piper Laurie, which is also about Doc's last days as TB slowly but surely takes him down.  His name, as well those of the Earps, the Clantons, the Corral, and even the state of Arizona is changed for some reason but you quickly realize what you're watching and the movie is quite good.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, wouldbestar said:

From 1955:  Burt and Kirk's Gunfight at the at the OK Corral.  Seemingly total opposites they bring out the best in each other and stand together against a common foe.  Even if Earp and Holliday are played as cleaner than they really were, this is still my favorite Western for so many reasons:  Great acting by stars and supporting cast, a Dimetri Tiomkin  score with Frankie Laine singing the theme, Leon Uris script, colorful scenery and beautiful costumes.   The life of a lawman is shown not as glamorous but not much different from today with the families and other loved ones paying a stiff price to share their lives.  The abusive love/hate relationship between Doc and Kate can  definitely not  be condoned by modern standards but according to history is fairly accurate.   This is truly an "adult" Western where family ties decide which side of the law the characters stand and the consequences they face.    

That said, both the Kevin Costner and Kurt Russell versions are probably more factual as the Earp brothers are not portrayed as saints which they assuredly  were not.  Hour of the Gun,  which John Sturges made some years after Gunfight, shows that Holliday and the Earps became wanted men themselves as not everybody thought they were right in what they did.  

In My Darling Clementine, Doc-Victor Mature-is killed in the fight, which did not happen, so I suppose inaccuracies occurred  in all the films under "historical license".  With Henry Fonda and Walter Brennan also in the mix, I guess you just sit back and enjoy the ride.  While I still think I have a better horse than my fellow Tampa Bay resident, his is well worth the watch.

Other posters and I have recommended Dawn at Succoro, starring Rory Calhoun and Piper Laurie, which is also about Doc's last days as TB slowly but surely takes him down.  His name, as well those of the Earps, the Clantons, the Corral, and even the state of Arizona is changed for some reason but you quickly realize what you're watching and the movie is quite good.  

great pts pal!   Don't own a horse though  There are horse farms near here though  The Western & Comedy is the oldest genre

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spence said:

great pts pal!   Don't own a horse though  There are horse farms near here though  The Western & Comedy is the oldest genre

MY DARLING CLENTINE is easily among the top Westerns   & like Sturges Hour of the Gun (***-out of 4 stars) Never really knew James Garner was that tall at 6'3 until TCM showed it in a NP Guide  COOL GUY!  His likely closest role to himself was his sole Oscar nominated work in '85's MURPHY'S ROMANCE  He told Carson that McQueen was crazy & was neighbors with him & Steve would use his motorcycle to tear up his lawn  Only one he didn't get along with from THE GREAT ESCAPE was Charles Bronson though

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spence said:

MY DARLING CLENTINE is easily among the top Westerns   & like Sturges HOUR OF THE GUN (***-out of 4 stars) Never really knew James Garner was that tall at 6'3 until TCM showed it in a NP Guide  COOL GUY!  His likely closest role to himself was his sole Oscar nominated work in '85's MURPHY'S ROMANCE  He told Carson that McQueen was crazy & was neighbors with him & Steve would use his motorcycle to tear up his lawn  Only one he didn't get along with from THE GREAT ESCAPE was Charles Bronson though

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, wouldbestar said:

From 1955:  Burt and Kirk's Gunfight at the at the OK Corral.  Seemingly total opposites they bring out the best in each other and stand together against a common foe.  Even if Earp and Holliday are played as cleaner than they really were, this is still my favorite Western for so many reasons:  Great acting by stars and supporting cast, a Dimetri Tiomkin  score with Frankie Laine singing the theme, Leon Uris script, colorful scenery and beautiful costumes.   The life of a lawman is shown not as glamorous but not much different from today with the families and other loved ones paying a stiff price to share their lives.  The abusive love/hate relationship between Doc and Kate can  definitely not  be condoned by modern standards but according to history is fairly accurate.   This is truly an "adult" Western where family ties decide which side of the law the characters stand and the consequences they face.    

That said, both the Kevin Costner and Kurt Russell versions are probably more factual as the Earp brothers are not portrayed as saints which they assuredly  were not.  Hour of the Gun,  which John Sturges made some years after Gunfight, shows that Holliday and the Earps became wanted men themselves as not everybody thought they were right in what they did.  

In My Darling Clementine, Doc-Victor Mature-is killed in the fight, which did not happen, so I suppose inaccuracies occurred  in all the films under "historical license".  With Henry Fonda and Walter Brennan also in the mix, I guess you just sit back and enjoy the ride.  While I still think I have a better horse than my fellow Tampa Bay resident, his is well worth the watch.

Other posters and I have recommended Dawn at Succoro, starring Rory Calhoun and Piper Laurie, which is also about Doc's last days as TB slowly but surely takes him down.  His name, as well those of the Earps, the Clantons, the Corral, and even the state of Arizona is changed for some reason but you quickly realize what you're watching and the movie is quite good.  

AMAZINGLY, Earp never got shot, which added to his rep

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spence said:

AMAZINGLY, Earp never got shot, which added to his rep

never heard of  DAWN AT SUCCURO though  Did you mean A GUNFIGHT though with Kirk Douglas and Johnny Cash?

People like TOMBSTONE over WYATT EARP though, it beat EARP to the theaters by 6 months & made $54m. while EARP just grossed $25m  Think it mainly had to do with Kilmer's incredible & shoulda been up for an Oscar potrayal of Holiday that did it

COSTNER wasn't sure he could play Wyatt, until he looked in the mirror & parted his hair down the middle

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, wouldbestar said:

From 1955:  Burt and Kirk's Gunfight at the at the OK Corral.  Seemingly total opposites they bring out the best in each other and stand together against a common foe.  Even if Earp and Holliday are played as cleaner than they really were, this is still my favorite Western for so many reasons:  Great acting by stars and supporting cast, a Dimetri Tiomkin  score with Frankie Laine singing the theme, Leon Uris script, colorful scenery and beautiful costumes.   The life of a lawman is shown not as glamorous but not much different from today with the families and other loved ones paying a stiff price to share their lives.  The abusive love/hate relationship between Doc and Kate can  definitely not  be condoned by modern standards but according to history is fairly accurate.   This is truly an "adult" Western where family ties decide which side of the law the characters stand and the consequences they face.    

That said, both the Kevin Costner and Kurt Russell versions are probably more factual as the Earp brothers are not portrayed as saints which they assuredly  were not.  Hour of the Gun,  which John Sturges made some years after Gunfight, shows that Holliday and the Earps became wanted men themselves as not everybody thought they were right in what they did.  

In My Darling Clementine, Doc-Victor Mature-is killed in the fight, which did not happen, so I suppose inaccuracies occurred  in all the films under "historical license".  With Henry Fonda and Walter Brennan also in the mix, I guess you just sit back and enjoy the ride.  While I still think I have a better horse than my fellow Tampa Bay resident, his is well worth the watch.

Other posters and I have recommended Dawn at Succoro, starring Rory Calhoun and Piper Laurie, which is also about Doc's last days as TB slowly but surely takes him down.  His name, as well those of the Earps, the Clantons, the Corral, and even the state of Arizona is changed for some reason but you quickly realize what you're watching and the movie is quite good.  

*ROBARDS was a brilliant actor, despite not looking like Holiday

Link to post
Share on other sites

Never heard of  DAWN AT SUCCURO though  Did you mean A GUNFIGHT though with Kirk Douglas and Johnny Cash?

 

No I was just trying to use a bit of shorthand for Gunfight at the OK Corral. 

Also, I did not know that Val Kilmer is dealing with cancer.  It's too soon!  I'm certain he's got so many more great performances in him that would be lost if it gets him.  Rats!

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, spence said:

never heard of  DAWN AT SUCCURO though  Did you mean A GUNFIGHT though with Kirk Douglas and Johnny Cash?

People like TOMBSTONE over WYATT EARP though, it beat EARP to the theaters by 6 months & made $54m. while EARP just grossed $25m  Think it mainly had to do with Kilmer's incredible & shoulda been up for an Oscar potrayal of Holiday that did it

COSTNER wasn't sure he could play Wyatt, until he looked in the mirror & parted his hair down the middle

I saw Dawn at Soccoro  it was a free on demand and it ain't one of Rory's best.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I give it to James Garner who played earp as very stoic and lethal after his brother gets it with the shotgun.

Lancaster woulda been better if he hadn't talk so much.

Duke liked Garner too.

Lockdown Viewing Recommendation: James Garner Is Wyatt Earp In John  Sturges' HOUR OF THE GUN - Movies In Focus

Link to post
Share on other sites

This came up before.  DARGO once posted an old photo of the real Wyatt Earp who did eerily resemble the KURT RUSSELL  Earp.  And whether or not one movie version of the two were more ACCURATE than another in portraying the two men is likely something, lo these 135 or so years later will never know.  But of all the Earps and Holidays I've seen over the years( and my first intro to the person od Earp was HUGH O'BRIAN's old TV Earp '55-'61) But I do have to say that after all those flicks made about the two, TOMBSTONE's Russell as Earp and Kilmer as Doc Holiday are the ones I like best. 

Sepiatone

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

This came up before.  DARGO once posted an old photo of the real Wyatt Earp who did eerily resemble the KURT RUSSELL  Earp.  And whether or not one movie version of the two were more ACCURATE than another in portraying the two men is likely something, lo these 135 or so years later will never know.  But of all the Earps and Holidays I've seen over the years( and my first intro to the person od Earp was HUGH O'BRIAN's old TV Earp '55-'61) But I do have to say that after all those flicks made about the two, TOMBSTONE's Russell as Earp and Kilmer as Doc Holiday are the ones I like best. 

Sepiatone

I also like Tombstone over all the other Earp films and that Russell and Kilmer play their roles the best.     

Tales from the Morgue: Wyatt Earp breathes his last | Stories from the  archives | tucson.com

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sewhite2000 said:

I've never seen Tombstone  or Costner's Wyatt Earp, so I don't have as many versions to compare. Of the versions I have seen, Henry Fonda is my favorite Earp, and Kurt Russell is my favorite Holiday.

Kurt Russell played Earp in Tombstone.    

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Dennis Quaid did a great job as Holiday, also nobody's mentioned 'Doc' (1971), 

The best thing about 'Doc' is the atmosphere, its looks as it should for Tombstone circa 1881), the Alhambra saloon interiors, the outdoor party, the poker game, are done really well. The saloon even has a mariachi band playing the dance music a nice touch. It sort of homages Altman a bit in the political party sequence. Other than those its pretty dull.

Its even got a unique take on the whole Tombstone affair that it was just a turf fight between competing mob bosses Earps & the Clanton's & McLowery's, everybody's a crook, lol.

It all falls apart though because it tries to be a bit too psychological for its own good, and the other problem with characters based on historical figures is it doesn't even remotely follow the actual history.

Costuming, sets with dirt & dust, all look good. Earp even uses his Buntline special to cold **** rowdies in a few scenes.

Keach and Yullin (as Earp) are believeable in their parts but they fail to achieve any Iconic status, Dunaway isn't believable, she seems a bit too uptight for a ****. Earp's brothers & Sheriff Johnny Behan are reduced to minimal parts

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

I thought Dennis Quaid did a great job as Holiday, also nobody's mentioned 'Doc' (1971), 

The best thing about 'Doc' is the atmosphere, its looks as it should for Tombstone circa 1881), the Alhambra saloon interiors, the outdoor party, the poker game, are done really well. The saloon even has a mariachi band playing the dance music a nice touch. It sort of homages Altman a bit in the political party sequence. Other than those its pretty dull.

Its even got a unique take on the whole Tombstone affair that it was just a turf fight between competing mob bosses Earps & the Clanton's & McLowery's, everybody's a crook, lol.

It all falls apart though because it tries to be a bit too psychological for its own good, and the other problem with characters based on historical figures is it doesn't even remotely follow the actual history.

Costuming, sets with dirt & dust, all look good. Earp even uses his Buntline special to cold **** rowdies in a few scenes.

Keach and Yullin (as Earp) are believeable in their parts but they fail to achieve any Iconic status, Dunaway isn't believable, she seems a bit too uptight for a ****. Earp's brothers & Sheriff Johnny Behan are reduced to minimal parts

Watched this one just a few months back when TCM showed it.

Have to say your take here CJ on the sets and time recreation was spot-on, AND that this film actually drew me in to it, and even with those dull parts you mentioned. And I DID think Keach was very good as Doc Holliday.

(...one note though, and that being I thought the thing that really let it down was that actor Harris Yulin who played Wyatt Earp had absolutely NO screen presence in it, none, nada, at least not as the larger-than-life old west legend anyway, and so perhaps IF another actor had been cast in that role, this film would probably be better remembered than it is)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm ready for the flames( from two directions) here.....

I as never impressed by FONDA as Earp and thought( sorry, Mom) that Victor Mature was a lousy Doc Holiday.  Vic couldn't even bring himself to paste on a fake mustache.  And this migt be a bit interesting....

Kinda looks like a guy I used to work with.  But somehow(for Spence's "accuracy" jones) an early-mid 30's DENNIS HOPPER might have fit the bill for Doc.

Sepiatone

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2020 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...